Even if you hated healers before 1.2, the game is worse without our subs

[Saltydogg]

where did i say 1 dps should be able to punch through guarded healer?

 

reading comprehension ftw....

 

let me spell it out for you - heals are fine with current state of guard and taunts in pvp. let me know if you do not understand...

 

Laughable thats what I call this statement. Healers are not fine now! They are fine for you because you can kill them now! Just because the other people were better skilled and most likely better geared doesnt mean you get a free kill because you are dps. When 1.2 hit I was getting killed by scrub dps tanks because my heals were lessened and their dps increased. I love your theory though. A class that is completely vital to a games sucess needs to be nerfed just so you can kill it. Bravo on the epeen logic

[RStoney]

where did i say 1 dps should be able to punch through guarded healer?

 

reading comprehension ftw....

 

...

 

Why do you try a bit of reading comprehension yourself, ftw ? YOUR example, which YOU wrote, but obviously have failed to COMPREHEND - if two players cooperate (specifically - a tank and an healer) that one player should be able to dps through that. So....comprehend what you wrote - you are saying that ONE dps playing SOLO should be able to beat TWO cooperating people. Let me help you with your COMPREHENSION a bit more: You stated in your example that 2v1 - the ONE dps should win.

 

It is well understood - you want "godmode" Your dps should be able to play solo, and the healing class should be REQUIRED to have cooperating class of tank in order to play YOUR game.

 

Let me give you a little hint here - another MMO did the same mistake with PvP. It went from a balance design that if a team had good support roles represented - took quite a bit to kill them. And it was a busy PvP - full matches.

They decided to fuzzy around with things because the DPS crowd couldn't epeen sufficiently about the massive number of kills they were getting. It went to a system that now today you have the choice of being dps focused, or tank focused (read: bait) Support? Forget it. They left, and have never returned. SWTOR PvP is going the same route - I don't care what "metrics" you want to throw at it. Want proof? Go search this thread, and look for complaints about forever waits on WZ queues, and a subset of that complaining how they face the same people again and again and again and again. That would be a true test of YOUR reading comprehension.

 

Want to figure out which MMO I am talking about? Search a bit - the lead dev on it has considered gutting it from the game completely as it would have little to no impact on player base with it's current level of use.

 

Get that - for your reading comprehension test -- they messed around, much like BW is -- and PvP involvement dropped so low that they could remove it from the game ENTIRELY -- and not significantly affect overall player base. And it has been seriously considered. ftw huh ?

 

Enjoy

[Dieinfire]

HEALERS ARE NOT SPECCED FOR DEFENSE!

 

TANKS ARE SPECCED FOR DEFENSE.

 

I cut out all the rest of the crap because here is why. A commando healer wears the same heavy armor as a tank. We have no defensive abilities nor do we have enough ammo(as pure heals) to switch from both offensive and healing ablilties when fighting a one on one. What makes a heavy armor healer nasty is the fact that we can take a pounding and yet still heal. We are tanks because we should be capable of having some dps on us and surviving, while healing ourselves and other teammates. What the hell is the sense of having a healer in a WZ that is stuck healing just himself? So all you dps nubs were mad about heals pre 1.2 cry cry cry and you got the nerf you wanted. Now you hardly see any healers, not only that you hardly see any commandos. Great logic on the tanks being tanks though, makes total sense that a tank class can kill everything in its path including healers because they are tanks

 

Salty, I respect your passion for this topic. Its hilarious and terrific. I also pretty much agree with you. One of the reasons I rolled trooper heals was so I could be a tough SOB healer in PVP; pre 1.2 this was a reality (maybe too easily achieved), but now, without the premades I regularly roll with, I am more like the sickly gazelle than a tough guy.

 

Also, if we're supposed to be these so called single target healers, why do sage and op single target heals hit as hard as mine with even lower gear than me?

[syntxerr]

HEALERS ARE NOT SPECCED FOR DEFENSE!

 

TANKS ARE SPECCED FOR DEFENSE.

 

Tanks might be specced for defense but don't tank noticeably better in PVP than any DPS spec of same advanced class.

 

Apart from that, noone is asking for healers to be tanks. But the difference is, tanks are meant to die more slowly than all others, whereas healers are meant to prevent others from dying or enable them to fight longer.

 

So without arguing that it is too much when one healer can outlast half of the enemy team, the above is simply not given when a healer can't even keep himself alive through one attacker. That's how much there is to it. It's like DPS would suddenly start hitting like wet noodle defense guardians.

[Flyingcookie]

They really just care for dps'ers. you even can get interrupted all the time with full resolve so you can be 100% useless what's supposed to get worked around with resolve.

 

They just try to statisfy the majority all the time and this is why this games fails what i never would've said 1 Month ago but now i really hope it does

 

 

Have fun with this dying game(like it should) i hold out way to long with my jugg/sniper because theyre so much more fun to play with in PvP exspecially. you just can chaincc wuhuuuuuuu so much fun for the dd gj devs

[Ahhmyface]

I'm sorry to say but this attitude is once again nonsense. Healers were not godmode before, they were doing their job, healing. If you can't do that, because you immediately need your teams help as you say because of a single DPS killing you, something is very wrong

 

Get over it. Your job is not to facetank DPS, your job is to HEAL. Your inability to recognize how a healing class is supposed to be played is the source of all frustration.

[Ahhmyface]

They really just care for dps'ers. you even can get interrupted all the time with full resolve so you can be 100% useless what's supposed to get worked around with resolve.

 

They just try to statisfy the majority all the time and this is why this games fails what i never would've said 1 Month ago but now i really hope it does

 

 

Have fun with this dying game(like it should) i hold out way to long with my jugg/sniper because theyre so much more fun to play with in PvP exspecially. you just can chaincc wuhuuuuuuu so much fun for the dd gj devs

 

You're not a tank. if you have full resolve it takes at least 2 players with specced interrupts to stop you, ie, you're pulling your weight. Of course, you want more than that.

[Flyingcookie]

Get over it. Your job is not to facetank DPS, your job is to HEAL.

 

 

yea but we can only heal vs scrubs 1 good marauder on you and you and you maybe get 1-2 casts done until youre dead even if you use all the cc you got so much fuuuuuuun.

 

The only thing that you get as healer = a ton of mvp votes when youre not with a premade team that just gives itselfs the votes.

But dd is juts so much more fun in this game, just because it's imba

 

 

die already game

Edited May 17, 2012 by Flyingcookie

[Tondodino]

HEALERS ARE NOT SPECCED FOR DEFENSE!

 

You aren't Tanks, you are healers, if you want survivability get a Tank for cripes sake.

 

Once again--you insist that other players who are NOT in your role (healers), need to be atttached to the hip of someone at all times to be viable....whereas you are absolutely fine with a single dps being able to kill a healer without the assistance of HIS teammates. Pre 1.2, it took teamwork to kill a healer. Now, it takes teamwork for the healer to stay alive for any amount of time. Same situation, but reversed. Now that the cards are stacked in your favor, you are all for it (of course)! Don't act so high and mighty--you have the exact same wants as the healers, only difference is--you get what you want.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Tondodino

[Derian]

Tanks might be specced for defense but don't tank noticeably better in PVP than any DPS spec of same advanced class.

 

Apart from that, noone is asking for healers to be tanks. But the difference is, tanks are meant to die more slowly than all others, whereas healers are meant to prevent others from dying or enable them to fight longer.

 

So without arguing that it is too much when one healer can outlast half of the enemy team, the above is simply not given when a healer can't even keep himself alive through one attacker. That's how much there is to it. It's like DPS would suddenly start hitting like wet noodle defense guardians.

 

Yes, tanks do tank better than dps specs, I don't care what any bads say. Especially in the case of Vanguard, if you want to maximize the shared DPS tree you cannot be in ion cell.

[Flyingcookie]

Once again--you insist that other players who are NOT in your role (healers), need to be atttached to the hip of someone at all times to be viable....whereas you are absolutely fine with a single dps being able to kill a healer without the assistance of HIS teammates. Pre 1.2, it took teamwork to kill a healer. Now, it takes teamwork for the healer to stay alive for any amount of time. Same situation, but reversed. Now that the cards are stacked in your favor, you are all for it (of course)! Don't act so high and mighty--you have the exact same wants as the healers, only difference is--you get what you want.

 

indeed, healers should't be able to tank 2 dps but they should be able to do their job at least sometimes and you cant do that vs a good dd! a marauder for example interruts you all 6 seconds on top of the other cc like force choke so you often just die with 1-2 casted heals its pretty retarded

[Khoraji]

yea but we can only heal vs scrubs 1 good marauder on you and you and you maybe get 1-2 casts done until youre dead even if you use all the cc you got so much fuuuuuuun.

 

1 good marauder vs a scrub healer maybe.

[Flyingcookie]

1 good marauder vs a scrub healer maybe.

 

no... i play both sides and i can tell how easy it is to make a healer almost complete useless

 

 

but on the other hand they WANTED healers to be useless because the dumb way they designed warzones = fights around objetives. well one thing they really screwed up in design because its even now almost always cap first = win

[Khoraji]

no... i play both sides and i can tell how easy it is to make a healer almost complete useless

 

 

but on the other hand they WANTED healers to be useless because the dumb way they designed warzones = fights around objetives. well one thing they really screwed up in design because its even now almost always cap first = win

 

I have played a healer since launch and we are far from useless even against good pre-mades. Pre 1.2 we were gods. Now it actually takes some thought.

[Tondodino]

Healing is totally fine right now, if not still slightly OP... ive been playing my operative as healer

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

that is all.....

[Flyingcookie]

I have played a healer since launch and we are far from useless even against good pre-mades. Pre 1.2 we were gods. Now it actually takes some thought.

 

nah were only good in huttball right now. and yes vs bad players healing 600-700k is easy but all i can do vs good players it hotting you cant do more then

[DarthKhaos]

I still don't get this 1v1 talk or anything like that. I play a tank and I also play a healer and I've noticed one major difference. When I'm tanking I don't place guard and figure my job is done. I make sure I stop the dps that's on the healer. Slow, knockbacks stuns. I do that so the healer don't have to. Sure I try to kill players but my primary job playing my tank is to stop em from hitting the healer.

 

On my healer I've noticed how few people do this. Hell few people guard me. Oh well. This is not a flaw in healers it's a flaw in players. IMO players should be lining up to guard the healers or anyone who toss heals from time to time and ALWAYS move with one.

[olagaton]

balanced pvp with less players > imbalanced pvp that feels like hitting your head against the wall repeatedly

[Aalexi]

My experience as a BH Healer so far. To set some context, this is my first MMO, I'm told I learned quickly and that I'm a fairly good healer. I wouldn't say I'm the best, or even comparable to them, but I'm fairly confident in my ability to keep at least 4 people at a time alive if they're all fighting one other player (with perhaps 2 of them fighting two players each).

My experience in PVP is this: If you play a lot, people start to recognise you. I can think of at least 3 republic players who would actively seek me out every warzone because they noticed I wasn't bad at my job.

When I'm facing a dps I find my only chance of survivng is: Knockback, stun, get in as much burst damage as I can, hit them with a rocket punch if possible and heal myself, then doing low and occasional damage while I wait for my knockback/stun cooldown.

If I'm defending an objective, I can usually hold it for about a minute against 3, on a purely keeping myself alive and interrupting anyone who tries to interact with it basis. Unless they stun me.

 

Healing in pvp now can still work brilliantly, at my best, I was playing with a tank specced BH friend, he protected me, I healed him and anyone else nearby. Even just the two of us were easily able to take on 4-5 others unless they were VERY good. Though to my friends credit, he was good.

Which brings me to the choices as a healer. It's not just 'click the one with low health and heal', a good healer watches the players. If player A is fighting two enemies quite well, I'm going to heal them instead of player B who's fighting two enemies and not coping.

If Player A has just been swarmed by enemies, do I go for instantly throwing heals, hoping to keep them alive long enough to get some help, or do I fire an AOE and hope it scatters the enemies? (Most people will, on instinct, run out of the AOE symbol, even though they could clearly kill player A before a healer does any significant damage).

Healing in groups is as much about knowing who's most important to keep alive as it is healing people with low health. I've entirely abandoned healing someone who's clearly going to die without it, to heal someone who's still at 75% health, because they're a much better player and I want them around and ready when the next dps appears.

If a healer in your pvp match is only healing themself, throw/push/pull the person attacking away from them and guard them if possible, 90% of us will notice someone's helping us and return the favour.

[Saltydogg]

 

Salty, I respect your passion for this topic. Its hilarious and terrific. I also pretty much agree with you. One of the reasons I rolled trooper heals was so I could be a tough SOB healer in PVP; pre 1.2 this was a reality (maybe too easily achieved), but now, without the premades I regularly roll with, I am more like the sickly gazelle than a tough guy.

 

Also, if we're supposed to be these so called single target healers, why do sage and op single target heals hit as hard as mine with even lower gear than me?

 

Here is the reason why I am very passionate about this subject. I rolled a marauder just because I wanted to know what the class can do against healers. Its better to learn about whats killing you and how to counter it. So far post 1.2 there is no counter. A pure dps class should be able to kill a healer out right but it shouldnt take 3 abilities and a stun to do it. That is way over the top as far as I am concerned. Pre 1.2 a marauder could keep a healer contained, now it took alot longer to kill them but they would still go down. Pre 1.2 you made the healer kite,heal themselves and neglect the group. In essence you did your job as dps because the healers group is going to get smoked. Post 1.2 the healer is a non factor, just get ready to jump on him again and smoke him in three or four moves.

[Sathid]

Just as i thought,we all saw the Sorc's in WZ's for months,hell 40% of the Imperials were Sorc's from my perspective sometimes that was all there was in WZ's and now they are quitting because let's be honest they stink at PvP without that crutch of double dipping,cross healing,lightning stunfest, in the end they were shallow little "L2P" kiddy's,oh man too funny and guess what? it was so predictable too i was counting the days to when they would be brought inline and sure enougth they just couldnt hack it in a even remote level playing field, was just too much lol.

 

 

As the little Sorc's said soo often "LULZ on you" lol:p

Edited May 18, 2012 by Sathid

[ACTroyan]

they didn't quit, they just rerolled marauders or PT's and are still LoL'ing at you

[lexiekaboom]

they didn't quit, they just rerolled marauders or PT's and are still LoL'ing at you

 

I don't understand why the OP is trying to playing post 1.3 PVP off as a healer only problem, Post 1.3 if you are not a marauder or powertech I don't even understand why you would PVP any more. This isn't a issue unique to healers ... bioware has spoken, FOTM is the way to go.

 

From day one this game has had FOTM classes, and classes that are only there to die to FOTM classes. The only reason you are pissed SO much as a sage is you used to be FOTM, now you're just fodder like the rest of us.

 

Post 1.4 both marauders and powertechs will get nerfed to the point where they die to level 10s spamming auto attack and some new class will be buffed so hard we all re-rolls as that. And the cycle of life continues!

Edited July 22, 2012 by lexiekaboom

[WaywardOne]

<< I rolled a marauder just because I wanted to know what the class can do against healers. Its better to learn about whats killing you and how to counter it. So far post 1.2 there is no counter. A pure dps class should be able to kill a healer out right but it shouldnt take 3 abilities and a stun to do it. That is way over the top as far as I am concerned. Pre 1.2 a marauder could keep a healer contained, now it took alot longer to kill them but they would still go down. Pre 1.2 you made the healer kite,heal themselves and neglect the group. In essence you did your job as dps because the healers group is going to get smoked. Post 1.2 the healer is a non factor, just get ready to jump on him again and smoke him in three or four moves. >>

 

Did you play a marauder at level 50? Pre-50 sure, there's a wide variety of healer quality and performance based on spec and gear. @50 it can easily take my (wh) sentinel over a minute to whittle a decent healer down, and if I'm up against a good one that uses los I will never get a kill.

 

What is this "stun" you refer to? Marauders have a channeled stun but that also stuns the marauder. There are lots of counters to marauders, btw, google it.

[Ergecrs]

they didn't quit, they just rerolled marauders or PT's and are still LoL'ing at you

 

epic post