So is Pyrotech the way to go for PVP?

[DarthPunitor]

Never really bought into that argument.

 

I use IM, RS, FB, RP, TD, RapidShot, FT(less often than AP, but quite often), ED, DFA, Carbon, Energy Shield, Electro Dart, EF, Adrenal, relics, Grapple, Quell, Neural Dart, Sonic Missile, Determination, Vent Heat, Stealth Scan, TSO, KO, Medpack, and even Flame sweep sometimes. So that's at least 25 buttons.

 

In comparison to AP, Immolate and RB are a wash with IM/TD (although AP will use RB more than Pyro use IM), so really the only extra button AP uses is HO.

I wouldnt say AP requires more thought, but more "setup" for the PFT. One the other hand Pyro requires more heat management awareness.

 

same can be said for us arsenal mercs. i use all my abilities even though the core abilities are tracer/heatseeker/rapidshot/railshot and fusion missile sometimes.

Edited May 24, 2012 by DarthPunitor

[Amien]

 

Pyros definatly melt faces off. For sure. But I can and have solo'd every class in the game running 26/13/2.

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Does anyone know what spec this person is talking about?

[Pendrych]

Does anyone know what spec this person is talking about?

 

It's an Iron Fist spec, popularized by Taugrim. It's a shield tech build that picks up a little extra offense in the form of Retractable Blade and a 6s interrupt from the AP tree and the +8% Rocket Punch damage talent from Pyro to capitalize on Flame Guard procs and the Flame Surge talent, while maximizing your base defense with Ion Cell, Power Armor, and Ion Screen:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GRGozRroMZMcrroZb.1 is the version I run from time to time.

 

It's a very fun harassment spec, and you can score occasional kills with it, but you won't be capable of the type of quick burn-down that AP and Pyro can pull off, not on targets starting at full health.

 

I've found both AP and Pyro to be very effective in PvP, but as previous posters have commented, they require very different approaches and tactics. Personally, though, I prefer the Maverick hybrid Algooz has popularized.

[Agooz]

It's an Iron Fist spec, popularized by Taugrim. It's a shield tech build that picks up a little extra offense in the form of Retractable Blade and a 6s interrupt from the AP tree and the +8% Rocket Punch damage talent from Pyro to capitalize on Flame Guard procs and the Flame Surge talent, while maximizing your base defense with Ion Cell, Power Armor, and Ion Screen:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GRGozRroMZMcrroZb.1 is the version I run from time to time.

 

It's a very fun harassment spec, and you can score occasional kills with it, but you won't be capable of the type of quick burn-down that AP and Pyro can pull off, not on targets starting at full health.

 

I've found both AP and Pyro to be very effective in PvP, but as previous posters have commented, they require very different approaches and tactics. Personally, though, I prefer the Maverick hybrid Algooz has popularized.

 

As of 1.2 Full ST will outdamage an Ironfist. A ranged elemental ability that vents heat, allowing to spam an extra hit here and there is better than the melee centric Retractable Blade dot.

[Pendrych]

As of 1.2 Full ST will outdamage an Ironfist. A ranged elemental ability that vents heat, allowing to spam an extra hit here and there is better than the melee centric Retractable Blade dot.

 

I'll agree with you that the heat management aspect is very useful, but I think it's a wash otherwise. 10m isn't that different from 4m given how long the Retractable DoT lasts, and 13 points in AP picks up the 6s interrupt, and an additional 2% damage mitigation. Vent heat, on the other hand, requires investment in shield/absorb talents to one degree or another (even if you only put two points in the T6 talents) which are only effective against two classes in the game right now.

[SirSensi]

At lvl 23 I enjoy the rotation and the burst damage of my PT Pyro. I give some higher level (30-40ish) opponets a good run 1v1. Edited May 26, 2012 by SirSensi

[Agooz]

I'll agree with you that the heat management aspect is very useful, but I think it's a wash otherwise. 10m isn't that different from 4m given how long the Retractable DoT lasts, and 13 points in AP picks up the 6s interrupt, and an additional 2% damage mitigation. Vent heat, on the other hand, requires investment in shield/absorb talents to one degree or another (even if you only put two points in the T6 talents) which are only effective against two classes in the game right now.

 

Well the Retractable Blade dot can be cleansed. 10m is a big difference vs 4m. That 10m is probably what makes Pyro extremely effective. the 2% mitigation is also picked up by the full ST as they usually spent 8 points in AP. So the only thing it has over a 31ST is the Quell. The extra shield/absorb chance, which yes is only useful against certain classes, comes into play against the current FOTM ACs.

 

Regardless whether it is Full ST or Ironfist, I think PT tanks and Jugg Tanks, need a little buff, especially for PvP to be on par with Assassins.

[mcgrace]

As of 1.2 Full ST will outdamage an Ironfist. A ranged elemental ability that vents heat, allowing to spam an extra hit here and there is better than the melee centric Retractable Blade dot.

 

No way. You have to put talents into shield and absorb towards the top of the tree to get the 31 pt talent. Going 13 into the AP tree allows for so much more. Unlike others, I don't put 2 into quell. I use the damage mitigation and root for grapple. Both come in very handy.

 

Retractable blade does more than just damage people. It also pops stealthies out when the DOT ticks. That is my main use for RB.

 

The root on grapple and rocket boost is immeasurable. Coupled with electro dart and carbonize, it makes you a hutball nightmare. Fire pit and acid pit pulls/leaps ftw.

Edited May 27, 2012 by mcgrace

[Dundake]

Play what you enjoy. Each spec has it's own merit, though I feel that AP needs a little bit more love. It gives you a speed buff and movement impairment freedom for 8 seconds every thirty seconds. The damage is steady, in WH your flameburst will crit for 2k easily and immolate for far more.

 

Pyro allows for high crit damage via TD and RS. Problem is that out of the three specs, you are the most kiteable and squishy. Energy shield is your only saving grace and you lack the movement freedom of AP or the leap of shield tech.

 

Tanking is fun, youll be taunting dps and gaurding healers, don't expect to kill much though I've seen shield tech Vanguard on my server do a lot of damage.

 

Try it out, find out what suits you for PvP.

 

Writhen, Ajunta Pall

[Cempa]

While Pyro does have a hard counter -sniper- the burst they put out is insane especially if they add a bit more power with a relic or stim.

 

10m kite melee with ease, 25% damage mitigation that pretty much is up every minute and grapple which is beyond fun, it insta takes out a player in a hazard and is a super peel. If that wasn't enough x2 taunts that should be pretty much kept on CD when your healer is being attacked.

 

Look at how much damage Rapid Fire -free 30m attack- does on burning targets...It really hurts!

[dardack]

Regardless whether it is Full ST or Ironfist, I think PT tanks and Jugg Tanks, need a little buff, especially for PvP to be on par with Assassins.

 

This is what I've been saying forever. Right now I wouldn't take any tank except sin's in a premade.

[TheOpf]

This is what I've been saying forever. Right now I wouldn't take any tank except sin's in a premade.

 

I play as a Guardian Tank, and it's dps is severely lacking compared to Tankasins, but you have about 4-5 different stuns, slows, interrupts on short CD's. Essentially you can keep a caster or healer completely neutralized. Granted it's very difficult to blow kill anything with any semblance of speed. You have to pretty much pray no one else comes to help him out haha.

[dardack]

I play as a Guardian Tank, and it's dps is severely lacking compared to Tankasins, but you have about 4-5 different stuns, slows, interrupts on short CD's. Essentially you can keep a caster or healer completely neutralized. Granted it's very difficult to blow kill anything with any semblance of speed. You have to pretty much pray no one else comes to help him out haha.

 

I guess that's my point. Give me a sin to solo guard a node, even against 5 he can hold out long enough for reinforcements, name one other tank that can do that in PvP. Plus don't even mention their insane dps as a tank spec.

 

Right now jugg/pt tanks are kinda useless in PvP. I understand the interupts/stuns/etc, but i just don't see the benefit of that outweighing no dps.

 

EDIT:

Glad to see you back to posting, been awhile.

Edited May 29, 2012 by dardack

[TheOpf]

I guess that's my point. Give me a sin to solo guard a node, even against 5 he can hold out long enough for reinforcements, name one other tank that can do that in PvP. Plus don't even mention their insane dps as a tank spec.

 

Right now jugg/pt tanks are kinda useless in PvP. I understand the interupts/stuns/etc, but i just don't see the benefit of that outweighing no dps.

 

EDIT:

Glad to see you back to posting, been awhile.

 

I was busy for about a week, and been trying out guardian pvp since it's been lamented as pretty awful. I heard Op dps was awful too, but I hit 320k damage done as a Lethality Op at lvl 27 so I don't know what people are talking about. I get wasted by Troopers, but it's still pretty good. It's actually the best damage pvp spec I have played yet. Stuns, Interrupts, self heals, and dots as well as burst with Backstab and Shiv. I heard cull is even better, but I haven't made it that far. It has some energy issues, but nothing compared to pyro heat issues.

 

It's one of the few times I feel comfortable attacking 2 Marauders and knowing I will come out alive ;p.

 

I apologize if I came off angry at you. It was more the past few weeks of AP/Tacics bashing that set me off. I pushed 1100 dps in columni gear on a HM EV boss, but we are doing Denova now, and I am having trouble breaking 800 on the first two bosses there.

Edited May 29, 2012 by TheOpf