Subs down 25%

[BlueFromMoon]

WOW is in the process of killing itself and has been for well over a year, so no need (lol pandas)

 

But anyway, Elder Scrolls online will most likely be an FPS (like every single other ES game). Not everyone who plays RPGs likes FPSs, so it won't really be a major competitor. If they make it like WOW it will be an automatic fail since the elder scrolls fans won't like it.

 

No its not FPS. Its confirmed Hero Engine same as SWTOR, but they're using newest version like better support for DX11 and some other things, also Zenimax doesnt plan to modify like it Bioware did. Also they arent going to stop making single playing games, they just want to spread the brand basically to MMO world.

Edited May 15, 2012 by BlueFromMoon

[evildestroyer]

I don't see the big hype behind D3. It's a single player game with co-op.

 

Then again when Left4Dead came out half my guild was playing it.

 

A single player that will take a away a ton of players.

[JeramieCrowe]

You mean when the servers went down for maintenance?

 

I wouldn't have been able to post that if that were the case, genius...

[JeramieCrowe]

LOL, Elder Scroll Online in 2013, SWTOR = dead.

 

Not likely. Not is it using the HERO engine, too, but will not have player housing, and will use the same old lock-on targeting and hotbar combat.

[BJWyler]

they just want to spread the brand basically to MMO world.

 

Via your posts here, I suppose?

 

BJ

[ComeAndSee]

A single player that will take a away a ton of players.

 

You know people said that about Dragon Age.

[JeramieCrowe]

WOW is in the process of killing itself and has been for well over a year, so no need (lol pandas)

 

But anyway, Elder Scrolls online will most likely be an FPS (like every single other ES game). Not everyone who plays RPGs likes FPSs, so it won't really be a major competitor. If they make it like WOW it will be an automatic fail since the elder scrolls fans won't like it.

 

It won't be an FPS. I don't even think there will be a first-person view.

[ComeAndSee]

Not likely. Not is it using the HERO engine, too, but will not have player housing, and will use the same old lock-on targeting and hotbar combat.

 

I want to see a game that will actually go beyond just being a superficial WoW clone.

 

Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion Oline, Rift, and SWTOR brought nothing new or exciting. =/

[JeramieCrowe]

I want to see a game that will actually go beyond just being a superficial WoW clone.

 

Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion Oline, Rift, and SWTOR brought nothing new or exciting. =/

 

Well, it won't be TESO.

[NasherUK]

Excuses, excuses. That and speculation is what you hear from WoW haters/bashers. Of the 10.2 million subs, 1.7 million took advantage of the free D3. D3 is extremely popular you know?

 

It's not 10+million though. Most of those are Asian accounts that are sitting idle but still have un-used credit (Asian accounts only use up credit when logged in). EU and US numbers are not even quarter of that.

[OneDon]

I want to see a game that will actually go beyond just being a superficial WoW clone.

 

Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion Oline, Rift, and SWTOR brought nothing new or exciting. =/

 

I love Rift! I love the completely open world sandbox aspect (you can walk around the map - pre Ember Island - without the need to zone as the main world has no instances save dungeons). The fact that there are real time invasions in the single gaming World that matter and if you don't (team up and) fight them they will kill off NPCs and overrun towns so you can't get missions/shop for items etc.

 

If you go to an empty server I'm guessing that there are no towns as they're all likely to be overrun. It is exciting when you log-in and are thrown into an invasion and all the players have no choice but to close the Rift.

 

Great game. Not sure if WoW does that. But anyway, sometimes you don't need to do anything new, just do it well with slight differences.

Edited May 15, 2012 by OneDon

[Frostvein]

I want to see a game that will actually go beyond just being a superficial WoW clone.

 

Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion Oline, Rift, and SWTOR brought nothing new or exciting. =/

 

Usually though any games that try anything different aren't well received, or only have small player-bases, or people write them off without trying.

 

EVE comes to mind. Tera too, the targeting is different and I don't recall seeing another with the same kind of political system. I could be wrong on that.

[NasherUK]

Not likely. Not is it using the HERO engine, too, but will not have player housing, and will use the same old lock-on targeting and hotbar combat.

 

Hmm, no seanless open world like Skyrim/Oblivion then

[Valkirus]

It's not 10+million though. Most of those are Asian accounts that are sitting idle but still have un-used credit (Asian accounts only use up credit when logged in). EU and US numbers are not even quarter of that.

 

I heard that excuse before. So what? They are still "paying" accounts. You know..that thing which gives money to the MMO company? Blizz only counts subs which have been active within the last 30 days. Not any free accounts.

[hgeter]

Well basically all the changes to this game that needs to get done wont get done as long as people r still subbing away and the developers feel they have all the time in the world to do what they like.

 

The only way to push the envelope is to have a boycott Tor week and let them feel the hurt of completely empty servers.

 

But that wont happen because unity is not in the player base vocab.

[JeramieCrowe]

I heard that excuse before. So what? They are still "paying" accounts. You know..that thing which gives money to the MMO company? Blizz only counts subs which have been active within the last 30 days. Not any free accounts.

 

Now now... if you're going to excuse Blizzard for that, you should excuse BioWare, too. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. "Paying" account is a "paying" account whether they're actually playing or not? Only Blizzard has the luxury of being able to count people who haven't played in months.

[OneDon]

What does this game need though?

 

Cross-server PvPing/Raids

Team/Guild raids - if it hasn't already, I'm not in a Guild to now.

Better character customisation options - a dye option.

A proper auction house (one I do like about STO is it's auction system)

Server transfers

Graphics/Texture update.

 

The game isn't lacking in content or story as you lvl (I've yet to experience End-game content) and we know Bioware will deliver with Operations, Warzones and other PvP options.

 

Seriously, it's likely that the above will be delivered. As for server activity, personally I thought there are a lot of servers and merging some wouldn't do the game much harm - it would be devestating to public perception almost an admission it was failing. So perhaps a better strategy would be to give players the ability to migrate (migrate the inactive users) and then silently/secretly kill off the dead servers.

[Wayshuba]

Yep, just 25%. Rift's was down almost 58% at 6 months. TOR is quite above the typical MMO curve.

 

They really have their work cut out for them, though, if they want to stop the downward trend.

 

I highly doubt it is above the curve. EA wouldn't just give up $8m-$15m in revenue (a month's subs) for good reason. No company would. The far more likely scenario is active subs are already at 500k-750k and still dropping.

 

The other thing that it is failing to account for is the percentage of total. When a typical MMO might gain 300k-500k customers on launch, 25% of that would only be a loss of 75k-125k customers. SWTOR had a much stronger draw on launch and has lost more customers (1.1 million based on boxed sales) than most MMOs even gain as total customers. To sell 2.4 million boxes and retain only 1.7 million was not a good sign to begin with. To lose another 400k (with free month included) is a further sign that things are much worse than stated.

 

The investment of a free month helped them keep sub numbers higher for Q1 on three-month subs and hold six-month subs over Q2. So next quarter numbers won't be accurate either. However, I believe whatever the delta percentage change from Q1 to Q2 is, will be the same for Q2 to Q3.

 

Lastly, the most telling sign is EA's CEO already telling investors they are placing too much emphasis on SWTOR as a whole. The downplay is more telling than the numbers. Now he just needs two more quarters to almost move SWTOR to nothing but a distant memory for investors.

 

The real question is can the game be salvaged from here to eventually grow the base again. In all honesty, as much as it pains me to say it, I doubt it. My reasons were already posted here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4312639#post4312639

Edited May 15, 2012 by Wayshuba

[Darkulous]

It's not 10+million though. Most of those are Asian accounts that are sitting idle but still have un-used credit (Asian accounts only use up credit when logged in). EU and US numbers are not even quarter of that.

 

Honestly, it doesn't matter what the numbers are in WoW. Their X-server technology is so far ahead of other MMOs that every server feels full.

[Sanxxx]

Only Blizzard has the luxury of being able to count people who haven't played in months.

 

Actuallh with the initial 3/6 month subs so is SWTOR.

[JeramieCrowe]

Actuallh with the initial 3/6 month subs so is SWTOR.

 

Let me clarify: With counted playtime that NEVER dies until used, hell, they can keep counting them for years even if they haven't played in all that time.

[JeramieCrowe]

I highly doubt it is above the curve. EA wouldn't just give up $8m-$15m in revenue (a month's subs) for good reason. No company would. The far more likely scenario is active subs are already at 500k-750k and still dropping.

 

The other thing that it is failing to account for is the percentage of total. When a typical MMO might gain 300k-500k customers on launch, 25% of that would only be a loss of 75k-125k customers. SWTOR had a much stronger draw on launch and has lost more customers (1.1 million based on boxed sales) than most MMOs even gain as total customers. To sell 2.4 million boxes and retain only 1.7 million was not a good sign to begin with. To lose another 400k (with free month included) is a further sign that things are much worse than stated.

 

The investment of a free month helped them keep sub numbers higher for Q1 on three-month subs and hold six-month subs over Q2. So next quarter numbers won't be accurate either. However, I believe whatever the delta percentage change from Q1 to Q2 is, will be the same for Q2 to Q3.

 

Lastly, the most telling sign is EA's CEO already telling investors they are placing too much emphasis on SWTOR as a whole. The downplay is more telling than the numbers. Now he just needs two more quarters to almost move SWTOR to nothing but a distant memory for investors.

 

The real question is can the game be salvaged from here to eventually grow the base again. In all honesty, as much as it pains me to say it, I doubt it. My reasons were already posted here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4312639#post4312639

 

Yep, I agree. Although I wouldn't so much say "downplay" as being "realistic". If investors are giving more credit to TOR than even EA does, some adjustment of viewpoint is needed, wouldn't you say?

[Sanxxx]

Yep, I agree. Although I wouldn't so much say "downplay" as being "realistic". If investors are giving more credit to TOR than even EA does, some adjustment of viewpoint is needed, wouldn't you say?

 

Waning your faith is

[tkinnunzero]

Yep, I agree. Although I wouldn't so much say "downplay" as being "realistic". If investors are giving more credit to TOR than even EA does, some adjustment of viewpoint is needed, wouldn't you say?

 

I bet EA execs are looking at TOR very hard internally, even if they don't want the investors doing the same thing.

 

You don't just write off a hundred million investment without making sure you don't repeat the same mistakes again. I just hope this soul-searching results in a big broom sweeping away the old-school MMO devs who are holding this game down.

[asbalana]

I want to see a game that will actually go beyond just being a superficial WoW clone.

 

Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion Oline, Rift, and SWTOR brought nothing new or exciting. =/

 

I have to disagree there. To me the sleeper is the companion system. I have had minions in other games, but the companions and their depth of involvement in all but perhaps group play in swtor are just incredible. I will not blather on but would give swtor two stars and a cluster for this aspect of the game.

 

Swtor just boggles my mind. It has so many great things and little details missing in oher mmos and so much creativity and yet has missed so many basic points. I can get on an elevator with my wife and watch her cloak flap in the breeze as we descend (incredible detail) and then watch her hit force leap at the bottom and land ten feet from the targeted mob. I have sat back and watched the combat and both the players and the mobs are incredible in their moverments and actons. Nothing like I have seen anywhere else.

 

This game makes me scratch my head. There is incredible creativity and innovation at all points and so must disagree because there is much that is new and exciting. But on the other hand, so many basics (such as combat / ability delay) are so flawed in their implementation. I can be struck by the detail and beauty and scope of a planet such as Alderaan and then be frustrated by the fact that there are mountains everywhere and my pathing is so linear that I cannot really explore. BW manages to make incredible worlds and then make them feel dead because they have not put in "creatures" or npcs to populate them.

 

This game is way beyond a WOW clone but that is sometimes hard to see because of the bugs and flaws in basic conceptualization and implementation. Good and interesting game aspects are lost in the noise of problems like dead servers.

Edited May 15, 2012 by asbalana