Subs down 25%

[Holden_Dissent]

There's 2 levels of dead in an MMO.

 

There's what normal people consider a "dead" MMO, and what rabid fanboys consider a "dead" MMO.

 

Normal people consider an MMO to be dead when it's bleeding subs, it's hard to find people for PUGs for group content, PVP queues are long, and most the areas are ghost towns for both PVE content and open world PVP.

 

Rabid fanboys won't call dead until the servers are shut down.

 

Now you might argue it's not dead till there's no pulse, no respiration, but even in the medical field we'll call something dead while it's still walking and talking (though more likely screaming or moaning). We just have a nicer term for it in triage, called "expectant". Expectant means "they're already dead, they just don't know it yet". IE 3rd degree burns over 50% of the body or more, or exposed dura matter (you can see their brain). Or brain dead in a coma. I guess that's more truly analogous to an MMO that's unofficially "dead" like Age of Conan, Rift, or Warhammer. It's in a coma and it will never wake up. The servers are still up, but there's few people that play it, and actually having enough on to do things is a struggle. Last night was messing around in AoC (since it's F2P and I was bored) and there were people using the "New Player Help" channel to BEG people to queue up for PVP. over 2 hours and he couldn't get enough people to have a match.

 

If that's not comatose and never expected to wake up... I don't know what is.

 

Your opinion isn't even close to fact.

 

real MMO gamers know what "dead" means. SWTOR ain't it.

[JiggerDo]

make it 25.001% i jst unsubbed. **** you bioware/EA

[Samvan]

Bye SWTOR, people going to Diablo 3 and will not resub after our free game time has ended.

 

You will not be missed.

[JeramieCrowe]

How do you know they are mostly 50s? Perhaps they came from other servers looking for a better populated server. Also, there is hardly anything fun to do at 50, especially if you are not a raider (which most people are not), so it isn't so much that 1.2 is encouraging making alts, it's more to do with there is hardly anything to do at 50 that isn't some boring grind.

 

Are you saying they're mostly new players? With subs decreasing like they are? Also, it's easy to see in General chat. Also, I'm talking about MY server, which is a RP-PvE server, anyway.

[JeramieCrowe]

The 'success' of 1.2 lasted apprx 10 days, then pops reverted to pre 1.2 levels.

 

Well, I'm not talking about pop levels. I'm talking about the success of 1.2 with those that stayed. We talk about it all the time in General chat on my RP server. People (that decided to stay) really like it, myself included. Lots of nice RPish stuff there.

[Celebrus]

How are all those changes that were made to suit the 'casual' players and make the game less 'hardcore' friendly working out for the game?

 

Oh, subs down 25%? Nice. Wonder if all those players will be picking up D3 with me tonight. Just wanted to swing by and see what's become of a game that drove itself into a wall to suit the vocial minority.

 

Live and learn, eh EA?

 

This really can't be quoted or bolded enough.

 

Completely true, I would like to spam this across the forums all day.

[JeramieCrowe]

Subs are down 25%, that has nothing to do with the player retention rate that people seem to love to quote.

 

Player retention rate for the first YEAR of an MMO is the amount of players who have bought the game in that year compared to the amount of people still subscribing at the end of the year. So far SWTOR has sold 2.4 million copies and the current subscribers are 1.3 million. This means that TOR has a retention rate of 56%, slightly above the standard 50% of the "typical" MMO. However TOR has only been out 5 months, not a full year. You can't really compare until we see what sub numbers are like in another 6 months.

 

Based on the current trend, TOR will have sold ~3million copies and have about 800k subscribers in 6 months, which gives a retention rate of 27%, which is much much worse then the 50% standard. Of course the devs could completely turn the game around in that time and we could see a positive trend start in subscriptions.

 

However with the release of several new MMO's in the coming months, I don't see the trend reversing.

 

Every word my sentiments exactly.

[Fallenturtle]

Simple.. They shouldn't have nerfed operatives into the ground!

[Tenceriker]

Well, I'm not talking about pop levels. I'm talking about the success of 1.2 with those that stayed. We talk about it all the time in General chat on my RP server. People (that decided to stay) really like it, myself included. Lots of nice RPish stuff there.

 

Too bad that RPers don't make games in the long run but nice to hear that RPers are enjoying the game. Usually RPers get the shaft for a long time.

[JeramieCrowe]

Too bad that RPers don't make games in the long run but nice to hear that RPers are enjoying the game. Usually RPers get the shaft for a long time.

 

No kidding.

[RedWolfs]

Too bad that RPers don't make games in the long run but nice to hear that RPers are enjoying the game. Usually RPers get the shaft for a long time.

 

RP'ers like it until the tumble weeds are blowing around the fleet. Then they are sad like everyone else.

[illgot]

Too bad that RPers don't make games in the long run but nice to hear that RPers are enjoying the game. Usually RPers get the shaft for a long time.

 

Ultima Online had more RPing than any server that TOR currently has.

 

TOR is not about RPing, it is about being told a story which has no actual impact on your character.

[JeramieCrowe]

RP'ers like it until the tumble weeds are blowing around the fleet. Then they are sad like everyone else.

 

Well, my STANDARD server still has 150 on Fleet every day. 70ish on Coruscant and 60ish on Taris.

[JeramieCrowe]

Ultima Online had more RPing than any server that TOR currently has.

 

TOR is not about RPing, it is about being told a story which has no actual impact on your character.

 

My server has RP everywhere every day. Very tight RP community there. The Ebon Hawk. Especially the Slippery Slopes cantina. There's also a full guild of heavy RP smugglers I like to hang out with.

Edited May 14, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[ohpleasework]

Just wanted to swing by and see what's become of a game that drove itself into a wall to suit the vocial minority.

 

Live and learn, eh EA?

 

I think everyone should be forgiven for making a few mistakes, but this game wasn't developed in a vacuum. Blizzard had already done all of the leg work for them. So whoever was stupid enough to listen to the extremely niche group that were against a cross-server LFG tool: they deserve to lose their job. It was a tremendously stupid and thoughtless mistake that likely cost the game hundreds of thousands of subscriptions.

Edited May 14, 2012 by ohpleasework

[Tuscad]

I think everyone should be forgiven for making a few mistakes, but this game wasn't developed in a vacuum. Blizzard had already done all of the leg work for them. So whoever was stupid enough to listen to the extremely niche group that were against a cross-server LFG tool: they deserve to lose their job. It was a tremendously stupid and thoughtless mistake that likely cost the game hundreds of thousands of subscriptions.

 

^There seem to be a lot of mistakes like this in SWTOR.

[Darkulous]

I think everyone should be forgiven for making a few mistakes, but this game wasn't developed in a vacuum. Blizzard had already done all of the leg work for them. So whoever was stupid enough to listen to the extremely niche group that were against a cross-server LFG tool: they deserve to lose their job. It was a tremendously stupid and thoughtless mistake that likely cost the game hundreds of thousands of subscriptions.

 

Seriously dude. McDonalds spent millions (possibly billions) over the decades researching prime locations to put their stores. Meanwhile, Burger King spent NOTHING and just opened a store across the street from McDonalds.

 

Like you said, WoW has done the work for them and they ignored it. They opened their store in the middle of a desert.

 

Basically, if you want to compete with the iphone, you better have everything the iphone has.

[Valkirus]

Well, my STANDARD server still has 150 on Fleet every day. 70ish on Coruscant and 60ish on Taris.

 

Broaden your field of view some. How many other servers are light? The issue here is not the small handful of servers which are heavy pop, but the great majority of ones which are light pop. Look at it from that perspective and you will see more clearly why TOR is losing subs and what can be done about it. I know what you will say too...server merges/transfers. This will not be a option for many. And as a side note, I was on your server a little while ago and in Hutt...starting zone I know..there were 12 players. Not many new ones I would say.

[Valkirus]

Every word my sentiments exactly.

 

Did you even read the last part of his post? In case you only saw what you wanted to see.....here you go....

 

.....Based on the current trend, TOR will have sold ~3million copies and have about 800k subscribers in 6 months, which gives a retention rate of 27%, which is much much worse then the 50% standard. Of course the devs could completely turn the game around in that time and we could see a positive trend start in subscriptions.

 

However with the release of several new MMO's in the coming months, I don't see the trend reversing

[JeramieCrowe]

Broaden your field of view some. How many other servers are light? The issue here is not the small handful of servers which are heavy pop, but the great majority of ones which are light pop. Look at it from that perspective and you will see more clearly why TOR is losing subs and what can be done about it. I know what you will say too...server merges/transfers. This will not be a option for many. And as a side note, I was on your server a little while ago and in Hutt...starting zone I know..there were 12 players. Not many new ones I would say.

 

You guys are trying to put words in my mouth and make it sound like my posts were "state of the game" or something. All I was stating is what's happening on MY server, that's all. Calm down.

[JeramieCrowe]

Did you even read the last part of his post? In case you only saw what you wanted to see.....here you go....

 

.....Based on the current trend, TOR will have sold ~3million copies and have about 800k subscribers in 6 months, which gives a retention rate of 27%, which is much much worse then the 50% standard. Of course the devs could completely turn the game around in that time and we could see a positive trend start in subscriptions.

 

However with the release of several new MMO's in the coming months, I don't see the trend reversing

 

That's right, I read that. I've said the same thing several times, but you guys just seem to want to gloss over that fact. I've stated several times that BioWare has their work cut out for them to stop the bleeding of subs, even bolded and underlined the fact and the word ATYPICAL when it comes to that trend.

 

Seriously people... cherry-pick much?

Edited May 14, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Swaggz]

w00t!!!! I'm part of the 25%. LOL

 

Not really sure what I'm going to do once my sub runs out. Not overly interested in D3 or GW2 for multiple reasons. Lost all interest in WoW and Rift isn't really tugging at me. Tera is laughable imo, so I guess it'll be FPS time until something new and interesting comes out.

 

For the first couple months I could understand some growing pains/bugs in the game, but when 1.2 hit, WOW...the ineptitude of BW/EZ really showed. Heavy handed class nerfs, lack of testing on the PTS, no character copy, 3 weeks of CTD issues, people not able to get the launcher going, locking up on the random loading screen, and the whole while BW/EA wouldn't overtly admit that the problem was on their end. Never really seen a company so willing to blame the customers systems first and themselves last all the time.

 

Was hoping for better from BW, but should've realized when I saw the EA tag that this game was destined to a slow and painful death from the start.

[Evensong]

I found this article and video interesting.

 

http://toroz.com.au/2012/05/swtor-video-news-the-400k-drop-issue/

[Valkirus]

That's right, I read that. I've said the same thing several times, but you guys just seem to want to gloss over that fact. I've stated several times that BioWare has their work cut out for them to stop the bleeding of subs, even bolded and underlined the fact and the word ATYPICAL when it comes to that trend.

 

Seriously people... cherry-pick much?

 

No. Just keeping you on your toes. And sometimes I am guillty of not reading all of your posts. And your solution of server merges/transfers..you still on that band wagon of the miracle cure?

[JeramieCrowe]

No. Just keeping you on your toes. And sometimes I am guillty of not reading all of your posts. And your solution of server merges/transfers..you still on that band wagon of the miracle cure?

 

Alone? Of course not, nor have I ever stated it alone. I've always grouped it in with ranked warzones, LFG tool, more orange gear, and at least letting us know what they're currently working on for the revamped open-world PvP. Seriously, they really need to at least tell us. And just because I mention those few, doesn't mean it's limited to that, either.

 

I think people just got off on a tangent when I mentioned that the current sub decrease is still above curve. But that doesn't mean it's going to stay above curve without a LOT of work...