Can someone please answer this - Regarding Bioware & Ranked WZs

[Malynchi]

To OP, its bad form for anyone or any company to over promise and under deliver. There are only two reasons why BioWare did not roll out Ranked Warzones in 1.2 - Either they intentionally mislead consumers into continuing to pay for subscriptions when they had no real plans to implement Ranked WZs OR they did not have the technical expertise or understanding of consumer expectations for PvP to successfuly implement a system that would not alienate its consumer base. Bottom line: They either lied or they are incompetent. I don't pay $15 a month for BW to listen to me; I pay my therapist for that. I pay $15 a month to BW so that I can log in and play the game they advertised.

 

Looks like BW is learning from its mistakes though. They are not overpromising anymore and they did provide 1 month of free play time. You have to respect a company that is willing to take accountability for its actions. Personally, I would have liked for them to use the 30 days to develop a realistic and achievable plan so that we can make a decision on whether we want to keep our subs. If they don't come out with a plan soon, I will assume they don't care or can't get organized and move on to something else.

 

Vote with your dollars my friends.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Malynchi

[Zellata]

Do you have any idea how long the queues would be if they forced premade vs premade and pug vs pug? At least on my server Pub side I'd sit around all day waiting for that crap. Unless they had it so that it would pair up premade vs pug which would put us back in a much worse position than we are now 4man premade vs pug is bad enough can you imagine 8 man premades?

 

Solution (off top of my head, took me about 2 minutes to come up with):

 

1. When 8-player group queues, check if there are at least 8 more players in the queue, if not - wait 10s, then repeat #1.

2. Check if there's another 8-man group in the queue to match against. If there is, you have a match.

3. If there's no other 8-man group, wait 2 minutes while checking #2 every 10s or so.

4. If after 2 mins no match can be found, check if there's a 7-man group in queue and 1 solo. If there is, match against that.

5. Repeat #4 for 6-man group + 2 solo, 5-man group + 3 solo, etc. No 2 min delays on this check.

6. If still no match, check if we have 8 solo players in the queue, match against that.

7. If still no match, somebody has left the queue since step 1, so go back to #1 and repeat the process.

 

Just a rough idea

[Vanash]

And how do you know that Bioware isn't working their azzes off to make PvP a viable feature in SWTOR? Okay, yeah, I admit that after 6 months of release PvP is still an issue, so does that mean Bioware gave up?world pvp/ Ilum, yes they have given up. The engine cannot handle mass pvp. For all you know, they could be cooking up something great for us for a later patch.Then why all the secrecy?

 

You act or talk as if Bioware isnt trying to make things better when you really do not know what is going on in the hallways of Bioware Austin. It seems not even Bioware know what is going on in their own hallsYou are just sitting at your PC throwing out opinions based on emotion.Emotion? No tears here kid, I'm voting with my wallet.

 

A car company tries to release a line of cars that are fuel efficient and they fail, hard! But does that mean that they cannot go back to the drawing board to create something that isn't a failure?Tehy would have put adequate testing procedures in place before making the vehicle public, such a vehicle would not even leave the test track.

 

You have typical rose tinted goggle syndrome, the only reason you're so vehemently defending Bioware is due to your own fear that they will/ are failing. I've paid around £100 of my money into this game. I've been made promises which have not materialised. I'm going to cut my losses and try something else. Good luck to those that are staying but realise it's the IP cash cow you're feeding.

[Majestic_Jazz]

 

A car company tries to release a line of cars that are fuel efficient and they fail, hard! But does that mean that they cannot go back to the drawing board to create something that isn't a failure?Tehy would have put adequate testing procedures in place before making the vehicle public, such a vehicle would not even leave the test track.

 

 

So Bioware is essentially doing the same thing with Ranked Warzones but yet people attack them for not releasing it and deciding to further test it.

 

This is the argument that I do not get. If they released RWZs and it was a complete mess, people would be all over Bioware for failing to deliever and continuing to release "Crap". They decided not to release it so that they can further work on it and put it throuhg "adequate testing procedures" as you say and yet people are all over Bioware.

 

So whats the moral of the story?

[Zellata]

So Bioware is essentially doing the same thing with Ranked Warzones but yet people attack them for not releasing it and deciding to further test it.

 

This is the argument that I do not get. If they released RWZs and it was a complete mess, people would be all over Bioware for failing to deliever and continuing to release "Crap". They decided not to release it so that they can further work on it and put it throuhg "adequate testing procedures" as you say and yet people are all over Bioware.

 

So whats the moral of the story?

 

The moral of the story has already been stated in this thread a few times - you are not reading what other people post, keep repeating yourself, and are either clueless or a troll. Come to think of it, trolling forums with game being as broken as it is, is not the brightest idea either, so my money is on you being clueless.

[Majestic_Jazz]

The moral of the story has already been stated in this thread a few times - you are not reading what other people post, keep repeating yourself, and are either clueless or a troll. Come to think of it, trolling forums with game being as broken as it is, is not the brightest idea either, so my money is on you being clueless.

 

Please, nobody has legitimately answered my question! Instead, people beat around the bush and bring up stuff that totally has nothing to do with the question. But I'll break it down so it is easier to comprehend:

 

Generally people do not like when developers rush and release broken content. Usually once this happens, the general response is "Didn't they test this?" or "Fire the QA team!" or something similar. In the end, people while understanding that nothing is perfect, would still at least want to play something that they feel the developers put their 100% effort in and releasing broken/crapping content isn't the right way to do things if you're a developer.

 

SO

 

Bioware decided that despite the hype they created for Ranked Warzones [Although most of the 1.2 hype was around Legacy, not RWZs], they will cut RWZs out of 1.2 because.......it wasn't up to par with what they wanted so they needed more time to develop it. Was it bold? Yes, it was at the last minute, but it needed to be done.

 

HOWEVER

 

People bash Bioware for deciding to further test a product!!?!? I am really trying to stay away from using the word self-entitlement but after reading many of these comments, it is getting really hard not to do so. Say what you want to say, Bioware did the right thing. It was tough because I REALLY wanted RWZs but not if it was broken.

 

#1 Do you want broken content?

 

#2 Would you rather a developer rush content out rather properly test it and refine it?

Edited May 10, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz

[NyteSabre]

Please, nobody has legitimately answered my question!

 

Wow. Just wow.

[Majestic_Jazz]

Wow. Just wow.

 

#1 Do you want broken content?

 

#2 Would you rather a developer rush content out rather properly test it and refine it?

 

 

The basis of my question basically comes down to those two questions. It is these two questions that nobody has answered.

 

Now that I got your attention, do you think you can answer it?

Edited May 10, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz

[AMKSED]

Because if a company says they're going to do something they need to do it and make sure it gets done when they said they would have it done.

[NyteSabre]

#1 Do you want broken content?

 

#2 Would you rather a developer rush content out rather properly test it and refine it?

 

 

The basis of my question basically comes down to those two questions. It is these two questions that nobody has answered.

 

Now that I got your attention, do you think you can answer it?

 

Wasn't the question "why is it that some people bash Bioware for taking out Ranked Warzones in 1.2?"

 

You change questions, then claim no one can legitimately answer you, while not listening to anyone and just obsessing with your own dogma. It's ok though, I was young too and thought I knew it all.

 

Do I want broken content? No.

 

Would I rather a developer rush content out rather properly test it and refine it? No.

 

Should they promise delivery of something and withdraw it? No.

 

Do I want to queue WZ ops with my friends? Yes.

 

SO... The answer to your original question "why is it that some people bash Bioware for taking out Ranked Warzones in 1.2?" Because we were told to expect it and it wasn't delivered in 1.2 and looks like not in 1.3 either.

 

/thread.

Edited May 10, 2012 by NyteSabre

[Zellata]

Please, nobody has legitimately answered my question! Instead, people beat around the bush and bring up stuff that totally has nothing to do with the question. But I'll break it down so it is easier to comprehend:

 

Generally people do not like when developers rush and release broken content. Usually once this happens, the general response is "Didn't they test this?" or "Fire the QA team!" or something similar. In the end, people while understanding that nothing is perfect, would still at least want to play something that they feel the developers put their 100% effort in and releasing broken/crapping content isn't the right way to do things if you're a developer.

 

SO

 

Bioware decided that despite the hype they created for Ranked Warzones [Although most of the 1.2 hype was around Legacy, not RWZs], they will cut RWZs out of 1.2 because.......it wasn't up to par with what they wanted so they needed more time to develop it. Was it bold? Yes, it was at the last minute, but it needed to be done.

 

HOWEVER

 

People bash Bioware for deciding to further test a product!!?!? I am really trying to stay away from using the word self-entitlement but after reading many of these comments, it is getting really hard not to do so. Say what you want to say, Bioware did the right thing. It was tough because I REALLY wanted RWZs but not if it was broken.

 

#1 Do you want broken content?

 

#2 Would you rather a developer rush content out rather properly test it and refine it?

 

Let me try to make it easier to comprehend too. BW can take all the time they want to test things as long as I, as a player, don't have to participate in this testing outside of PTS and as long as I don't have to pay for it. When developers release a patch that pretty much completely breaks PvP after players practically screamed about it being broken for the whole duration of it being on PTS, you get what we have now - players get upset and unsubscribe.

If they said something like "sorry guys, new stuff in 1.2 doesn't work as it should, so we will limit this patch to just bug fixes and release new content later", people would be much less upset about it.

[fungihoujo]

They were intending to release it in a pre-season state anyway- why not just do that?

 

Though, there's no point releasing it without x-server pvp- there's honestly not enough decent pvpers on any server to even have matches ever proc at the top 'rating'- releasing rated pvp would end up with 0 rating facing 2000 rating regardless.

 

Also- 1.2 was released and it ruined pvp- nerfed the everloving crap out of classes that were already terrible, wrecked healing, made the TTK way too fast, boosted a single class to undisputed pvp god- the marauder, and started off by making everyone leave the moment there was a slim chance of losing with a terrible new rewards system- though that at least has been slightly remedied.

Edited May 10, 2012 by fungihoujo

[Majestic_Jazz]

Because if a company says they're going to do something they need to do it and make sure it gets done when they said they would have it done.

 

So what if they say they're going to do something like.....add a new feature but when it comes time to release, the feature isn't really ready, then what should that company do?

 

I have seen this response a few times, worded differently, but the same response indeed.

 

I guess this is the answer that people have to my question. Basically, people bash Bioware for not doing something that they said they would do. In this case, they said [never promised] but said that Ranked Warzones would make it's long waiting debut in Update 1.2 aka Legacy. So because Bioware pulled the plug on it and decided to further develope it and release it later, Bioware was in the wrong?

 

Okay, If this is the consensus then I'll take it. I don't agree with it, but I'll take it.

[NyteSabre]

So what if they say they're going to do something like.....add a new feature but when it comes time to release, the feature isn't really ready, then what should that company do?

 

I have seen this response a few times, worded differently, but the same response indeed.

 

I guess this is the answer that people have to my question. Basically, people bash Bioware for not doing something that they said they would do. In this case, they said [never promised] but said that Ranked Warzones would make it's long waiting debut in Update 1.2 aka Legacy. So because Bioware pulled the plug on it and decided to further develope it and release it later, Bioware was in the wrong?

 

Okay, If this is the consensus then I'll take it. I don't agree with it, but I'll take it.

 

Finally! And no, they didn't pinky swear on a stack of bibles to bring in RWZ

 

So they tested it for 1.2, for whatever reason (no one actually knows why it was held back) they held it back, fIne. I think the community to a degree took it on the chin and understood. But heres the thing, if something doesn't make it in 1.2, wouldn't it be reasonable for the community to expect that devs would put all efforts into it so it will be in for 1.3?

 

Well, this to me seems like a very reasonable expectation, and the reason why many are now up in arms is because with the podcast release, it seems apparent it's not even making it in 1.3, and frankly, not many want to wait till 1.4 (which is no definite it will come there either).

[Majestic_Jazz]

Finally! And no, they didn't pinky swear on a stack of bibles to bring in RWZ

 

So they tested it for 1.2, for whatever reason (no one actually knows why it was held back) they held it back, fIne. I think the community to a degree took it on the chin and understood. But heres the thing, if something doesn't make it in 1.2, wouldn't it be reasonable for the community to expect that devs would put all efforts into it so it will be in for 1.3?

 

Well, this to me seems like a very reasonable expectation, and the reason why many are now up in arms is because with the podcast release, it seems apparent it's not even making it in 1.3, and frankly, not many want to wait till 1.4 (which is no definite it will come there either).

 

Okay, so after breaking down this comment, especially the last part. Basically part of the frustration is the waiting game? Okay, I'll buy that to, don't agree with it, but I'll take it.

 

HOWEVER

 

How do you know that RWZs [not crappy] would be ready for 1.3? This is something that really bothers me. Yeah, it was supposed to be in 1.2 [some would say it should have been in 1.0 at launch] but wasn't and now it on't be in 1.3? But how is this Bioware's fault? Again, I go back to one of my questions:

 

Would you rather a developer rush content out that isn't finished/ready instead of making sure that it is ready for launch?

 

Bioware could release RWZs in 1.3 as you and many other want. But then, what if it is broken, then what?

Edited May 10, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz

[NyteSabre]

Okay, so after breaking down this comment, especially the last part. Basically part of the frustration is the waiting game? Okay, I'll buy that to, don't agree with it, but I'll take it.

 

HOWEVER

 

How do you know that RWZs [not crappy] would be ready for 1.3? This is something that really bothers me. Yeah, it was supposed to be in 1.2 [some would say it should have been in 1.0 at launch] but wasn't and now it on't be in 1.3? But how is this Bioware's fault? Again, I go back to one of my questions:

 

Would you rather a developer rush content out that isn't finished/ready instead of making sure that it is ready for launch?

 

Bioware could release RWZs in 1.3 as you and many other want. But then, what if it is broken, then what?

 

No, Bioware didn't say 1.3 to my knowledge, it was a reasonable assumption many held, it certainly wasn't stated "We are pulling RWZ from 1.2, and don't expect it in 1.3, 1.4 or 1.5 either". Are we in the wrong for that assumption? Maybe. Do we have to keep our subs going till they get their act together, or be totally fine with it? Absolutely not.

 

I am really not sure what answer you have been fishing for all this time, you want me to say "No, I don't mind I can't group with my friends even though all I do in this game is WZ, especially now ilum ihas been essentially removed. I'm ok with BW taking their time, and im happy to keep my sub going. I don't mind that im completely bored with the game since I can't queue with my friends, despite PvEer's being able to make 8 and 16 man groups. I don't mind I am forced to play with endless bads, and despite trying my best, having losses (not all) that are directly attributed to them. And yes im happy to keep playing on the vague promise of rateds, and not display any form of displeasure due to content not being delivered."

Edited May 10, 2012 by NyteSabre

[Spaj]

Okay, so after breaking down this comment, especially the last part. Basically part of the frustration is the waiting game? Okay, I'll buy that to, don't agree with it, but I'll take it.

 

HOWEVER

 

How do you know that RWZs [not crappy] would be ready for 1.3? This is something that really bothers me. Yeah, it was supposed to be in 1.2 [some would say it should have been in 1.0 at launch] but wasn't and now it on't be in 1.3? But how is this Bioware's fault? Again, I go back to one of my questions:

 

Would you rather a developer rush content out that isn't finished/ready instead of making sure that it is ready for launch?

 

Bioware could release RWZs in 1.3 as you and many other want. But then, what if it is broken, then what?

 

I dont understand how you are confused at the response of so many? I think its totally a perspective thing.

If you treat Bioware as a family member or friend, you are going to have loads of leniency, sympathy, patience, support, praise etc. If you treat Bioware as a supplier of entertainment, to supply the things they say they will in return for a monthly fee. It becomes more about a business arrangement and results. Businesses have obligations to provide what they advertise when paid for it.

 

Goodwill doesnt exist for the most part here. It is expected from the players by Bioware to continue to support them thick and thin, but it certainly isnt provided in reverse.

 

If i say to Bioware via my subscription page that i will pay them $15 a month recurring to let me play the game and 1 month I run out of money and fail to pay, would i expect them to 'give me a break', i've supported them paying ontime till now. and i'll pay them double next month? Hell no. I'm out the door.

 

So why the hell would i give them 'a break' when they dont do what they say they will. "1.2 come see ranked warzones!" Pvpers from all over come back and resub. "Ahh yeah about those ranked WZs.... sorry about that, heres some game time to play some more of what we arent providing."

 

We are customers of Bioware's not their friends. Complaining doesnt make us 4yr old. Complaining is an avenue for a customer to inform the supplier of a frustration of a business arrangement.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Spaj

[NyteSabre]

I dont understand how you are confused at the response of so many? I think its totally a perspective thing.

If you treat Bioware as a family member or friend, you are going to have loads of leniency, sympathy, patience, support, praise etc. If you treat Bioware as a supplier of entertainment, to supply the things they say they will in return for a monthly fee. It becomes more about a business arrangement and results. Businesses have obligations to provide what they advertise when paid for it.

 

Goodwill doesnt exist for the most part here. It is expected from the players by Bioware to continue to support them thick and thin, but it certainly isnt provided in reverse.

 

If i say to Bioware via my subscription page that i will pay them $15 a month recurring to let me play the game and 1 month I run out of money and fail to pay, would i expect them to 'give me a break', i've supported them paying ontime till now. and i'll pay them double next month? Hell no. I'm out the door.

 

So why the hell would i give them 'a break' when they dont do what they say they will. "1.2 come see ranked warzones!" Pvpers from all over come back and resub. "Ahh yeah about those ranked WZs.... sorry about that, heres some game time to play some more of what we arent providing."

 

We are customers of Bioware's not their friends. Complaining doesnt make us 4yr old. Complaining is an avenue for a customer to inform the supplier of a frustration of a business arrangement.

 

Great post.

[Malynchi]

To OP, I already answered your question on page 6, but to break it down for you one more time there are only TWO explanations why RWZ were not implemented in patch 1.2: They are either liars, or they are incompetent.

 

Either reason is enough to be criticized. Please give me a third option as to why BW did not implement RWZ in patch 1.2 as intended that doesn't involve them either being deceitful or incompetent. They either mislead customers into thinking there was good content just around the corner to keep subs up OR they just didnt have the technical skills/knowledge of their customer base to deliver high quality product. You are right, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't: but they put themself in that position. You know they could have just created good content, or was that something BW is not capable of doing?

 

You say that they shouldn't be bashed for taking the time to implement correctly. Why shouldn't they be bashed? Are you seriously telling us not to be upset with BW because they are doing their best? BW isn't competing in the special olympics, they don't get credit for trying. They either deliver the goods or they don't. If they don't people get mad. They will give some snarky remarks online and then they will unsub. Its that simple.

 

Hey, even Yoda gets it. Do or Do not. There is no try.

[RobNightfall]

People are bashing BW for f**king up, period. Ranked warzones is just one more example of this. They can't release it, in part, because of the various forms of cheating that still occur in PvP that they have not found a way to counter. These would be the same exploits that the devs doggedly refused to acknowledge the existence of until direct links to the websites and videos demonstrating them were presented to them. And they still haven't fully fixed them, although they are much rarer now so they do appear to be working on the issue.

 

To sum up: we're tired of f**k-ups, and ranked warzones is just the latest in a long and less-than-distinguished line of f**k-ups.

[rjkishida]

Sorry dead topic. This has been brought up so many times it's a joke. Bioware has never given any answer about rateds. They don't want to. Their attitude toward their customers sucks!

[Gibbzter]

Wow some people are real die-hard BW fans. Good (and funny) read.

[Darthshnooky]

Wow some people are real die-hard BW fans. Good (and funny) read.

 

I'm a die-hard BW fan. I have played and own every game they've released since Baldur's Gate II. They are pretty much my favorite developer in the industry. That said, i presented a thorough answer to the OP on the VERY first page outlining what BW did wrong that has so many players upset. Of course, just like every other reasonable answer, it was ignored or viewed as not addressing the issue...

 

OP: NO ONE wanted them to release Rated Warzones as a buggy mess. No one has ever said they should've just released them as a mess. People are upset about other things -- when it comes to RWZ, the major issue is the lack of testing that went on due to mishandling PTS and the transfer situation. We're all quite pleased that buggy RWZs didn't go in with 1.2... we're not so thrilled, however, about the lack of communication and what many of us view as mismanagement on behalf of BioWare, whose customers we are.

[evilxpoptart]

Actually, to contrary belief ranked WZ's where postponed not due to bugs/broken or any such matter. The reality is it was postponed due to a large majority of negative feedback it was given because items obtained by ranked WZ comms where perceived as to much work. SImply put there was no "easy" button like the current new system has implemented.

[JMKnave]

OP: NO ONE wanted them to release Rated Warzones as a buggy mess. No one has ever said they should've just released them as a mess. People are upset about other things -- when it comes to RWZ, the major issue is the lack of testing that went on due to mishandling PTS and the transfer situation. We're all quite pleased that buggy RWZs didn't go in with 1.2... we're not so thrilled, however, about the lack of communication and what many of us view as mismanagement on behalf of BioWare, whose customers we are.

 

This pretty much answers the question. Ranked warzones are not ready for release to live.

 

A rated pvp system would require BW to provide a fair, balanced, and bug-free environment on a consistent basis. The PTS showed that they were not able to provide this at the time. They are still working on it. Both warzones and the warzone queue still suffer from more than a dozen bugs.

 

Without the above, you cannot guarantee a proper rating system. It would instead come down to which team did not get bugged during the match. And the forums would be filled with QQ about it.