Tank Builds In DPS Gear, Are They Equal?

[Cempa]

I've gone up against all 3 tank builds in DPS gear with a mix of BM and WH for all of us and I have an opinion but thats strictly from my POV as a Sorcerer, wanted to hear from you guys views/opinions about all Vs your build in PvP?

[exphryl]

I've gone up against all 3 tank builds in DPS gear with a mix of BM and WH for all of us and I have an opinion but thats strictly from my POV as a Sorcerer, wanted to hear from you guys views/opinions about all Vs your build in PvP?

 

The Vanguard/PT Tank in DPS gear is worlds behind at least a Tankasin. I can't say much for Immortal Juggs, don't see many out there.

[Cempa]

The Vanguard/PT Tank in DPS gear is worlds behind at least a Tankasin. I can't say much for Immortal Juggs, don't see many out there.

 

Against your build I assume, what build do you have?

 

Seeing how I am a Sorcerer every one does nice damage against me :/

[Mackiemesser]

Any one of the 3 can fullfill the roll so long as they, guard, peel, debuff and harass.

 

Shadow tanks have the better survivability (self healing, immunity cool down, vanish/reset) and they can generally put out more pressure dps wise then the other two.

 

I wont say that vang's or guardians are useless just because they are less optimal pvp tanks in comparison to the shadow. A if played well they are an asset even with a suboptimal class.

[Ossos]

Against your build I assume, what build do you have?

 

Seeing how I am a Sorcerer every one does nice damage against me :/

 

Notice that the first place he went was a Tankasin/Sintank, not Sorc. Currently the Sintanks are the best tanks in the game by a wide margin.

 

Anyhow, to your question. Most tank builds offer a bag of tricks for the player. Unfortunately, except for the Sintank, the damage afforded by tanking specs is negligible when compared to the DPS builds. Many players would like to convince you that "Hey, going full Shield Tech in PvP is a great build!!" It's not. It sacrafices damage for survivability. Now, consider that you may stay UP longer as that tank build, but that up time is less than 4 seconds. Additionally, that damage you will be doing as that Tank spec will be so minimal when compared to the DPS counterparts that it simply takes you out of the game.

 

Fortunately for Sintanks, none of the above is true. They have the best mitigation in the game, a nice bag of tricks, and compared to other tank classes, they hit like a truck. Granted their damage isn't as HUGE in the level 50 bracket as it is in the 10-49, but it's leaps ahead of other tank classes.

 

1.2 BROKE PvP Tank Builds for everyone but Assassins. If someone is trying to convince you otherwise, they don't understand math, and are simply bad at the game.

[ShadowOfVey]

Notice that the first place he went was a Tankasin/Sintank, not Sorc. Currently the Sintanks are the best tanks in the game by a wide margin.

 

Anyhow, to your question. Most tank builds offer a bag of tricks for the player. Unfortunately, except for the Sintank, the damage afforded by tanking specs is negligible when compared to the DPS builds. Many players would like to convince you that "Hey, going full Shield Tech in PvP is a great build!!" It's not. It sacrafices damage for survivability. Now, consider that you may stay UP longer as that tank build, but that up time is less than 4 seconds. Additionally, that damage you will be doing as that Tank spec will be so minimal when compared to the DPS counterparts that it simply takes you out of the game.

 

Fortunately for Sintanks, none of the above is true. They have the best mitigation in the game, a nice bag of tricks, and compared to other tank classes, they hit like a truck. Granted their damage isn't as HUGE in the level 50 bracket as it is in the 10-49, but it's leaps ahead of other tank classes.

 

1.2 BROKE PvP Tank Builds for everyone but Assassins. If someone is trying to convince you otherwise, they don't understand math, and are simply bad at the game.

 

Why do people continually state that tankasins have the best mitigation in the game? They don't.

 

In tank spec with dark charge you sit at about 40-42% armor mitigation depending on how good your pvp gear is (Mine is like 41.5% with a mix of BM and WH gear). Do you claim that's the highest in the game? They have the LOWEST mitigation of the 3 tanks in their tank spec/stances.

Edited May 5, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[Sookster]

The Vanguard/PT Tank in DPS gear is worlds behind at least a Tankasin. I can't say much for Immortal Juggs, don't see many out there.

 

No way, my shieldtech PT in dps gear does plenty of dps.

 

Immortal in dps gear isn't very viable, I've tried it.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Sookster

[Ossos]

Why do people continually state that tankasins have the best mitigation in the game? They don't.

 

In tank spec with dark charge you sit at about 40-42% armor mitigation depending on how good your pvp gear is (Mine is like 41.5% with a mix of BM and WH gear). Do you claim that's the highest in the game?

 

Dark Ward what?

[olagaton]

Are DPS classes in Tank gear Equal, too?

[ShadowOfVey]

Dark Ward what?

 

You feel dark ward, a talent that has 8 charges of 15% increased shield chance which costs force and only works against white damage,, is more valuable than 9-10% or so of additional passive armor mitigation?

 

If dark ward didn't need to be activated and was just on all the time, it still wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the mitigation. 15% increased shield chance doesn't even mean "take 15% less damage" even if everything was white damage, because all it does is do a damage reduction based on your absorb rating (which for a tankasin, is 20% base +4% from talent)

 

15% chance to take 24% less damage i.e .15 * .24 = 0.036 = 3.6% less damage taken because of it...if everything was white damage. And it has charges. I think the WH shield has some absorb on it, so you can bump that up by a few tenths of a precent.

 

Here's how good dark ward is: I don't even have it in my pvp build.

Edited May 5, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[Zerogates]

An assassin in DPS gear is a DPS regardless of the skill tree he uses. If you are giving up 15% dodge rating, shield rating, and absorb rating then you are not a mitigater. Nothing stops a DPS skilled assassin from using dark charge for the large armor boost, so I think the only thing that really makes someone a tank assassin in everyone's eyes is the armor boost which is not limited to any particular skill tree.

 

As far as mitigating damage juggernauts and powertechs will have the best static mitigation while assassins are best for situational survival. Assassins have more options for staying alive which is not dependant on their gear, so assassins seem to perform better in DPS gear. A good player will stop a combat stealthing assassin and will not try to burst during the white force/tech immunity shroud, but more often than not players are not able to stop it.

 

Make it harder for assassins to stealth while in dark charge and I think they will be equal, otherwise I would put assassins ahead of the other two for tanking purposes in pvp. Powertech may be the better option for damage as most assassin damage claims are not really valid. They compare pure tank gear juggernauts and powertechs to pure damage gear assassins running dark charge, which is obviously different. Juggernauts are great for disabling players and being mobile but I do not think I would try making a DPS geared immortal juggernaut, maybe a tank geared juggernaut in a DPS skill tree would be better?

Edited May 5, 2012 by Zerogates

[kilomax]

You feel dark ward, a talent that has 8 charges of 15% increased shield chance which costs force and only works against white damage,, is more valuable than 9-10% or so of additional passive armor mitigation?

 

Your right...

 

My opinion Juggs/Guards have the best mitigation ingame due to there abzorb bubbles which other than the -40% dmg one on a fairly large cd, makes them take less dmg for most situations. They are followed closely by Vans/Ptech and Sintanks are either middle or just somewhere.

 

Anything to do with white damage and armour rating mitigation people must understand that all the tanks have roughly the same in that department! Sintanks probably have more shield than most due to having zero -??% dmg defence bubbles other than Resistance which doesn't help you against white dmg if they are not tech/force related!

[Sookster]

Your right...

 

My opinion Juggs/Guards have the best mitigation ingame due to there abzorb bubbles which other than the -40% dmg one on a fairly large cd, makes them take less dmg for most situations. They are followed closely by Vans/Ptech and Sintanks are either middle or just somewhere.

 

Anything to do with white damage and armour rating mitigation people must understand that all the tanks have roughly the same in that department! Sintanks probably have more shield than most due to having zero -??% dmg defence bubbles other than Resistance which doesn't help you against white dmg if they are not tech/force related!

 

Yup immortal jugg with static barrier on force scream, invincibility for 40% reduction, 6% extra defense on retaliation (can get up to 30% defense on my jugg with it active) and ~45% absorption. But like I said, immortal in dps gear isn't very viable, it doesn't even have competitive dps.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Sookster

[ShadowOfVey]

An assassin in DPS gear is a DPS regardless of the skill tree he uses. If you are giving up 15% dodge rating, shield rating, and absorb rating then you are not a mitigater. Nothing stops a DPS skilled assassin from using dark charge for the large armor boost, so I think the only thing that really makes someone a tank assassin in everyone's eyes is the armor boost which is not limited to any particular skill tree.

 

As far as mitigating damage juggernauts and powertechs will have the best static mitigation while assassins are best for situational survival. Assassins have more options for staying alive which is not dependant on their gear, so assassins seem to perform better in DPS gear. A good player will stop a combat stealthing assassin and will not try to burst during the white force/tech immunity shroud, but more often than not players are not able to stop it.

 

Make it harder for assassins to stealth while in dark charge and I think they will be equal, otherwise I would put assassins ahead of the other two for tanking purposes in pvp. Powertech may be the better option for damage as most assassin damage claims are not really valid. They compare pure tank gear juggernauts and powertechs to pure damage gear assassins running dark charge, which is obviously different. Juggernauts are great for disabling players and being mobile but I do not think I would try making a DPS geared immortal juggernaut, maybe a tank geared juggernaut in a DPS skill tree would be better?

 

Funny enough, I'm seeing these immortal/vengeance juggs pop up, in dps gear but in tank stance. These tend to be parts of strong premades on my server.. The tanking is phenomenal and the damage is actually pretty formidable as well. I've seen similar things with the iron fist styled tank PT builds as well. I think the main reason for their success is that mitigation continues to be a flat %, which will always be useful, while damage is increasing in other areas at a rate that overcomes the defenses offered from expertise. (i.e augments in war hero gear along with expertise now providing higher damage than damage reduction)

 

Thus their advantages in the mitigation area, particularly for the 50%+ armor tanks, end up having them stay alive about as long as they did pre 1.2, whereas many others die quicker than they did pre 1.2 (Hence all the complaining about TTK on this forum).

 

Strangely, while no one would be foolish enough to say tankasins aren't good, they actually benefitted from this less than the "forgotten" tank types, the Juggs and PTs in tanking stances. Of course, less of them to notice this on. (though it is rising now, I think people will take more notice within the next month or two).

Edited May 5, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[alcek]

Tank specced guardiand in dps gear, in pvp is just a walking cc machine. This is it, nothing special, almost harmless compared to the other tanks.

[AlyxDinas]

The general benefits of Combat Tech gear over Supercommando, for a Vanguard, are huge. Sure, the set bonus for the latter is better for a tank. The cooldown on Storm is great for aiding out mobility, which in turn helps our ability to properly harass enemies. But because TTK post 1.2 is so truncated and because Shield and Absorb are fairly useless PvP stats, the other supposed benefits of the gear are just not really there.

 

Smart play can extend a tank's uptime just as much as stats can and the increased damage output is largely more beneficial because of this. I've seen no majorly appreciable difference in my style of play, defensively, upon switching from Supercommando to Combat Tech, mostly because the skillsets we have as a class are still really nice at preventing and canceling most bigtime, channeled damage dealing abilities and generally managing an enemies resource pool. And since I'm staying alive for pretty much the same length as before my gear switch (which was, barring certain circumstances and matchups, not an insignificant time), I'd rather take the increase to my output. I get a fair number of damage debuffs from my talents as it is.

Edited May 5, 2012 by AlyxDinas