Sniper Dps in HM Ops

[The_Duck]

Hiya,

I wanted to ask some questions about dps in HM Operations for a Marksman Sniper.

If you are in full rakata gear what should the expected dps be for fights like the EV Droid and Gharj, etc?

 

If dps is just below 1k what is an expected rotation to get closer to the 1200-1300 mark?

[Tenacity]

Depending on spec, anywhere from 1100-1400 dps on average, taking into account movement and such.

 

I havent recorded dps on fabricator yet, but your DPS will probably be around 1500-2000 on him due to the mechanics of the fight, but could be lower depending on where you're positioned with the consoles.

 

If you want to maximize dps, I suggest speccing into lethality.

[The_Duck]

I think the issue is not using the Probes.

Would you agree?

[jimmymurry]

I get 1100-1250 on Bowser ( Gharj ). What kind of numbers is Lethality pulling?

[jimmymurry]

After doing research it definatley seems Lethality is the Snipers best DPS spec. That makes no sense. I know you gave us 5% boosts to a bunch of shots and improved Sniper Volley. But I have not found a single parse of marksman veering lethality in merged logs. Do something. I didn't become a sniper to poisin people...

[Crankyhobo]

After doing research it definatley seems Lethality is the Snipers best DPS spec. That makes no sense. I know you gave us 5% boosts to a bunch of shots and improved Sniper Volley. But I have not found a single parse of marksman veering lethality in merged logs. Do something. I didn't become a sniper to poisin people...

 

Yeah i agree, its a bit weird, tech and explosives i can understand since we are agents and have access to the newest innovations of the empire. Poison is kind of lame.

[Goldenstar]

After doing research it definatley seems Lethality is the Snipers best DPS spec. That makes no sense. I know you gave us 5% boosts to a bunch of shots and improved Sniper Volley. But I have not found a single parse of marksman veering lethality in merged logs. Do something. I didn't become a sniper to poisin people...

 

It will depend on the fight i think. Marks has a better DPS POTENTIAL but it requires the Sniper to be a stationary turret that rarely has to move. Lethality has to much damage from DoTs which will keep ticking while the sniper is moving, that it is going to do better against bosses that are more mobile.

 

Tl;dr Marks will do better if it can sit and chain out its rotation unimpeded. Lethality will do better in fights that require dps to be mobile.

[Irenicus_Jon]

It has been proven time and again that Lethality has better DPS (regardless of situation) compared to MM. This was evident before combat logs when we used spreadsheets and is verified after combat logs by people doing self tests oon the dummies. As of yet (even with the 5% improvement to the "generally MM tree") Lethality is at least 100 DPS ahead of MM at the Columni gear and beyond.

[Tibbel]

It has been proven time and again that Lethality has better DPS (regardless of situation) compared to MM. This was evident before combat logs when we used spreadsheets and is verified after combat logs by people doing self tests oon the dummies. As of yet (even with the 5% improvement to the "generally MM tree") Lethality is at least 100 DPS ahead of MM at the Columni gear and beyond.

 

I have not seen conclusive data that one spec's DPS is inherently above another's, much less "at least 100 DPS ahead."

 

Would you mind pointing me toward it?

Edited May 6, 2012 by Tibbel

[DuhCiq]

what about Engineering? I always read about MM and Lethality, but no one talks about Engineering, is it that bad?

[Somokon]

It has been proven time and again that Lethality has better DPS (regardless of situation) compared to MM. This was evident before combat logs when we used spreadsheets and is verified after combat logs by people doing self tests oon the dummies. As of yet (even with the 5% improvement to the "generally MM tree") Lethality is at least 100 DPS ahead of MM at the Columni gear and beyond.

 

Dummy parses will be favourable towards lethality because of a lack of armor debuffs. I performed one such test. While it showed lethality being ahead of marksman, in a real ops situation you are likely to have more than 1 armor debuff on your target.

 

Looking at my damage breakdowns, I estimate that marksman does rouchly 90% energy/kinetic damage, while lethality does roughly 40% energy/kinetic damage (I cant be sure because the combat logs do not break cull down into its weapon/internal components).

 

1 armor debuff (-20%) on the dummy puts it at 4651 armor, which means your energy/kinetic attacks will do roughly 69.9% of their damage. Adding an extra armor debuff (-40%) puts armor rating at 3488, and your attacks will do 75.6% of their damage, roughly an 8.1% increase.

 

With these numbers we can extrapolate what marksman and lethality dps would be with an extra armor debuff. My calculations give an extra 104 DPS and 49 DPS for marksman and lethality respectively, bringing the totals to 1526 for marksman and 1562 for lethality.

 

Add another (-60%) armor debuff, and marksman pulls ahead with 1648 DPS, vs 1620 for lethality.

[Valentinne]

Dummy parses will be favourable towards lethality because of a lack of armor debuffs. I performed one such test. While it showed lethality being ahead of marksman, in a real ops situation you are likely to have more than 1 armor debuff on your target.

 

Looking at my damage breakdowns, I estimate that marksman does rouchly 90% energy/kinetic damage, while lethality does roughly 40% energy/kinetic damage (I cant be sure because the combat logs do not break cull down into its weapon/internal components).

 

1 armor debuff (-20%) on the dummy puts it at 4651 armor, which means your energy/kinetic attacks will do roughly 69.9% of their damage. Adding an extra armor debuff (-40%) puts armor rating at 3488, and your attacks will do 75.6% of their damage, roughly an 8.1% increase.

 

With these numbers we can extrapolate what marksman and lethality dps would be with an extra armor debuff. My calculations give an extra 104 DPS and 49 DPS for marksman and lethality respectively, bringing the totals to 1526 for marksman and 1562 for lethality.

 

Add another (-60%) armor debuff, and marksman pulls ahead with 1648 DPS, vs 1620 for lethality.

 

Sorry I blacked out . . . what were you saying? J/K . . . kind of. Anyways, so MM is better than lethality? I've been playing a sentinel, but I release rerolled to a sniper. The class is pretty much brand new to me, so I'm curious which tree is better . . . I was rolling MM but then I started looking at the other trees, specifically lethality and then I was wondering . . . pretty much what I'm seeing, from what you are saying is . . . MM & Lethality are pretty much even unless you have an extra armor reducing debuff then MM pulls ahead, is that correct?

 

And though I do appreciate all the detailed, number crunching caculations . . . if you just say it in english, that would be cool lol. NOT TROLLING!!! Just want to make sure I understand which one is better. Thx man!

[NotRonin]

DPS on dummies is not everything. It's more about personal preference. If you want to be the 'best dps ever', you're in the wrong forum. Roll a sorc and you canl get 2000 dps.

 

MM's major benefit is the ability to switch target and do 'damage on demand'. Many bosses in operations will spawn adds, and you simply cannot switch targets in Lethality without running into energy issues.

 

On the flip side, some fights requires a lot of movement. If you're playing the role of 'lightning rod' in Stormcaller/Firebrand, being in Lethality is much, much easier.

[theangryllama]

Dummy parses will be favourable towards lethality because of a lack of armor debuffs. I performed one such test. While it showed lethality being ahead of marksman, in a real ops situation you are likely to have more than 1 armor debuff on your target.

 

Looking at my damage breakdowns, I estimate that marksman does rouchly 90% energy/kinetic damage, while lethality does roughly 40% energy/kinetic damage (I cant be sure because the combat logs do not break cull down into its weapon/internal components).

 

1 armor debuff (-20%) on the dummy puts it at 4651 armor, which means your energy/kinetic attacks will do roughly 69.9% of their damage. Adding an extra armor debuff (-40%) puts armor rating at 3488, and your attacks will do 75.6% of their damage, roughly an 8.1% increase.

 

With these numbers we can extrapolate what marksman and lethality dps would be with an extra armor debuff. My calculations give an extra 104 DPS and 49 DPS for marksman and lethality respectively, bringing the totals to 1526 for marksman and 1562 for lethality.

 

Add another (-60%) armor debuff, and marksman pulls ahead with 1648 DPS, vs 1620 for lethality.

 

However dummys cannot dodge. Which means the ranged attacks against them will always hit (georg has come straight out and said this due to it skewing results for gunslingers/mercs/marauders with 2 weapons). Its still close but unless your sitting at 110% ranged accuracy (not tech) then it skews it back a little again.

[pureeffinmetal]

Really don't know why so many people think Lethality is so good. I'm not really impressed.

 

This is a 8m KP nightmare log with me (Lightning Sorc) and my guildie who is a Marks Sniper.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/848bfd87-f68d-4cbc-803e-788cedbcf11d/overview#d=0,b=1

 

We were only running 2 armor debuffs so dps could have been higher. And I've personally seem him pull 1900+ dps when we have 100% armor penetration.

 

He forgot to log for Bonetrasher but as you can see, its consistently high.

Edited May 7, 2012 by pureeffinmetal

[Kelderek]

Honestly, MM and Lethality are close enough that the decision on which to use would probably be based mostly on whether you raid 8 or 16 man because this would determine how many armor debuffs you are likely to have up on a boss. In an 8man team you are likely to only have 2 or 3 debuffs up and might therefore benefit more from Lethality's higher amount of internal/elemental damage. In a 16 man team you should always have a full 100% armor debuff and might get better results from MM.

 

There's pros and cons to each spec, I suggest you play the one you enjoy the most.

 

Keep in mind that the stat requirements for these specs are not the same, and even to do some simple testing you would likely have to change out a fair amount of gear depending on which spec you use. A big part of that is needing to add/remove the 3% accuracy on your gear which one spec will have from talents and the other will not. You also need much less critical chance with MM than you do with Lethality, so you can swap for more power.

 

How good your weapon is might also be a factor. I found that the worse your weapon is relative to the rest of your gear, the more useful Lethality is since Lethality makes use of more abilities that are not tied to weapon damage. So for example if you have a columi weapon/barrel with a mix of other rakata pieces then Lethality may be best for you. If you can get a hold of a rakata or campaign weapon/barrel then MM may pull way ahead.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Kelderek

[Ghobe]

I thought armor debuffs stopped stacking after 1.2 hit >.>

[Kelderek]

I thought armor debuffs stopped stacking after 1.2 hit >.>

 

That indeed is what they had planned, but for some unknown reason the change did not go live -- we still have fully stackable armor debuffs -- enjoy it while it lasts!

[ButterStrawKid]

Really don't know why so many people think Lethality is so good. I'm not really impressed.

 

This is a 8m KP nightmare log with me (Lightning Sorc) and my guildie who is a Marks Sniper.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/848bfd87-f68d-4cbc-803e-788cedbcf11d/overview#d=0,b=1

 

We were only running 2 armor debuffs so dps could have been higher. And I've personally seem him pull 1900+ dps when we have 100% armor penetration.

 

He forgot to log for Bonetrasher but as you can see, its consistently high.

 

 

 

lololollollololollolool 1k dps? thats it?

[pureeffinmetal]

lololollollololollolool 1k dps? thats it?

 

We were doing the puzzle.

 

Fail troll is fail.

[Ghobe]

lololollollololollolool 1k dps? thats it?

 

Guy looks at log, doesn't know how to sort by fight, makes completely oblivious post.

[Synavix]

It's really about preference and individual fights (Not that I assume people respec for every fight, but rather if your guild is having difficulty on a certain progression fight, it's always worth it if you'll be spending all night on it). I spent a lot of time running old Ops and speccing back and forth between pure SS and DF on my gunslinger and results were always varied. My highest DF parse was nearly 2200 on Fabricator (while as SS I only hit 1550), while as SS I could do consistently higher DPS on burst add fights like Gharj and Karagga (1650 as SS compared to somewhere in the ballpark of 1350 or 1400 as DF).

 

On a normal Ops night my group runs Sentinel, Commando, Gunslinger x2 as DPS. I'm usually SS and the other GS is usually DF. We always pull the highest damage by a fair margin depending on the fight and neither of us has ever been consistently higher than the other. Most progression nights we swap places under good circumstances and end up within a few percentages of each other each pull.

 

Depending on how future armor debuff changes play out this could change, but as it stands both specs (and generally their hybrids) are near enough in comparison that playstyle is still the biggest factor in which will do more DPS on a personal basis.

[chuixupu]

I've played around with pure MM, Lethality, and MM/Eng hybrid and it seems like the numbers are similar enough that it doesn't really matter that much. From a personal point of view, I've realized the MM/Eng hybrid spec feels the most fun and natural to me while I find Lethality to feel clunky and the most difficult to manage energy.