Patch 1.2 - Honest assessment of Bioware Dev competence

[Wrestle]

D3 is terrible.. No PvP on release, and ZERO open world PvP. Saw good things about GW2 though, we will ahve to see.. Some of the same people in this thread were most likely on the Tera/WoW and other MMO threads just 3 months ago screaming "CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE THIS POW GAME FOR SWToR!!!!"

 

It's just funny.. I believe the Dev's are doing what they can with what they have. I'm enjoying the game right now and I play a Guardian. One of the most difficult classes to play in SWToR.

 

Tera is stupid good man if you can get through the first 20 levels or so. Its just ok below level 20.

[Torcer]

Whats up with the guy (developer) always quoting DPS metrics is in paramaters? Really?? How about make the game fun. Not my metrics have to have everyone in the 5% range. How does burst fit into your metrics then??? How about making damage dealers deal damage? How about some classes do massive burst damage, but lower over all damage while others do massive long term damage? How about tanks being able to take crazy damage? How about Bounty Hunters being able to kill 1 person solo? How about healers being able to heal???

 

Don't get me started on BW's Metrics obsession - you're 100% right.

[Scoobings]

Tera is stupid good man if you can get through the first 20 levels or so. Its just ok below level 20.

 

DCUO had the same problem, I'm assuming because of the combo system. The system is great at higher levels but at low levels when you have like 2 abilities it's kind of lame

[Blackrot]

D3 is terrible.. No PvP on release, and ZERO open world PvP. Saw good things about GW2 though, we will ahve to see.. Some of the same people in this thread were most likely on the Tera/WoW and other MMO threads just 3 months ago screaming "CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE THIS POW GAME FOR SWToR!!!!"

 

It's just funny.. I believe the Dev's are doing what they can with what they have. I'm enjoying the game right now and I play a Guardian. One of the most difficult classes to play in SWToR.

 

^ lol...a juggernaut is my main...and they are NOT difficult to play. D3 will be SOMETHING to play while waiting on gw2. The way things have been in swtor after 1.2 was released....i ain't paying ****. Maybe when things get fixed...but atm it ain't looking good.

[BrotardNosef]

Well said!! Just about sums it up ninjaboy! They need Chef Robert Irvine in there ASAP!! They are going under fast!

 

LOL MMO-Impossible. Need moar tight black shirt wearing people in charge.

[Wrestle]

Don't get me started on BW's Metrics obsession - you're 100% right.

 

Well every class wants to feel that they are bad A.. Hell in Tera last night I was fighting a dragon and I was delivering massive damage with 13k crits at level 30, when the tank was taking massive damage. I also died in one hit, but thats life. I felt powerful because I was able to hit so hard and the tank felt powerful, because he can take an absolute beating. I think all classes need to have this feeling. Even one massive ability that every class can use every 30 minutes or so. That would stop quite a bit about people angry over getting beat by 1v1 because if there CC is up it would destroy. That way they can enjoy their class and also not feel gimped compared to the next guy. It worked for the crappy SK class in EQ. Harmtouch made it all worth while. Manaburn for wizards was just like this as well. We all like seeing the big crits!

 

New Class Abilities

 

Bounty Hunter - Rocket Barage - 10k damage 30 min cd

 

Inquisitor - Devastation Bolt - 12k damage 30 min cd

 

Agent - Assassinate - 11k damage 30 min cd

 

Warrior - Crushing Choke - 2.5K damage per tic and unbreakable - 30 min cd - With a neck snapping sound at the end of the animation.

 

How cool would that be? I'm sure it wouldn't fit into their metrics though.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Wrestle

[SWImara]

One thing I appreciated in OP's commentary was the comparison to AoC. I definitely loved that game and wanted it to succeed but time and time again I found myself wondering "*** are these developers trying to do?" The 1.2 patch left me in the same exact boat, low TTK leads imo to crappy MMO-PvP and overall there is no way that it wasn't clear to those implementing changes that the changes made would decrease time to kill. Along the same lines, yes there undoubtedly were balance problems pre 1.2 but what we ended up with post 1.2 is a hot mess, it's puzzling that anyone thought this trend was appropriate.

 

It would be great to hear some feedback from someone at Bioware regarding generally *** happened with 1.2.

 

I have no intention of quitting any time soon, I have next to 0 interest in DIII, TERA or GW2. I'd just like to see things get better in SWTOR.

[TheMunny]

The silence of the development team is deafening to say the least. Which in itself leads me to assume many of the changes were sent down from above by a 'committee, or board. As with any Corporation the development team has to answer to 'someone' and that 'someone' usually isn't involved in day to day operations, AKA - clueless. You must remember, the bottom line here is making the investors happy not the consumers.

 

Lets hope this proves to them cloning a business model of an old but successful grind-a-thon game isn't an 'IWIN' button so to speak.

 

Good luck BW, see ya in 6 months, maybe.

[Erasimus]

I like lots about this game and would like it to succeed but even as an average skilled PvP'er I have to agree with most of what the OP said. If Bio/EA wants to keep even the casual PvP'er like myself it is my opinion they need to fix things rather quickly.

 

All of the hardcore PvP'ers I knew are already gone, including my son. My Imperial guild was mostly PvP folks and of the 40 to 50 folks that were on during prime before 1.2 I'm usually the only one on now. Most are probably gone for good.

[Jahluvsu]

Hi Everyone,

 

No rage here just profound dissapointment. I lived through SWG, AOC, Champions and other's over the years. I don't think I have ever looked forward to a game more and I never expected this to happen to this game. I had great expectations for BioWare having been a fan since the first Baldurs Gate. It surprises me how some companies make decisions and then how slowly they react when the feedback is overwhelminly clear. (The amount of unsubs is clear feedback whether you agree or not)

 

I think for me having leveled a 50 Shadow and a 50 Trooper (Van) I was having a blast with in pvp, the changes made it so I hardly play them and decided to go back to my low level sent when I do log on. Went into a wz the other day with 3 of us against 7 of them and it stayed that way until the last few minutes.

 

I don't pretend to know the answers I just know that the "fun" went away and the numbers are way down. As a republic player the ilum fiasco bothered me becuse of the gear and valor bump it gave the empire but we dealt with it. Now I don't have the enthusiasm to even log in! I've bought GW 2 and Diablo and we will see how that goes. I haven't unsubbed but I don't have the financial concern others may have, if I get into GW 2 though I probaly will go away and check back in down the road. Too bad though this was the game of my dreams and like the NGE thingy in SWG someone who wasn't qualified made a really bad decision and it's costing them big time.

[Individual]

Good job OP. These guys at Bioware need to do something and fast. Other MMOs are hitting the shelfs as we speak, and before long, there isn't going to be many subs left to help these guys out and get the fan base back.

[ssbi]

Additionally - Bioware Devs need to do the following.

 

#1. Take responsibility for their actions. This means publicly addressing the playerbase directly and not through the media, another website, or other 3rd party source. This should be an apology of epic magnitude showing remorse for butchering the game and soiling their company's previously untarnished good name. Acknowledgement should specifically include misleading players, not listening to TL feedback, and a big sorry for absolutely obliterating class balance.

 

#2. Provide all previous subscribers with 30 days free to come back to the game. This includes anyone that had a valid subscription at one point. This email sent regarding this free 30 days should be from the Devs on their knees pleading and begging for forgiveness. lol but yeah seriously. Maybe a pic should be included. We want to see tears that are genuine.

 

#3. All class "balance" in 1.2+ should be immediately reverted back to pre-1.2. This is huge and where you made your biggest mistake with the game thus far. You should also specifically acknowledge how terrible you are at class balance a 2nd time and let the players know this won't happen again.

 

#4. Whoever is in charge needs to make those responsible for 1.2 patch accountable for their actions. This includes project leads and Senior management that approved this disaster.

 

#5. SLOWLY and with extreme caution / babysteps integrate class changes and fixes based on real PvP data, PvP feedback from players that aren't horrible at the game (i.e. those that actually know how to use an interrupt ability). This should be more about buffing classes that aren't meeting player expectations and less about nerfing X class to oblivion.

 

Or you won't release hostages am i right ?

 

But Geoff Zoeller cry on CNN that would be epic yeah.

[Blackrot]

Hi Everyone,

 

No rage here just profound dissapointment. I lived through SWG, AOC, Champions and other's over the years. I don't think I have ever looked forward to a game more and I never expected this to happen to this game. I had great expectations for BioWare having been a fan since the first Baldurs Gate. It surprises me how some companies make decisions and then how slowly they react when the feedback is overwhelminly clear. (The amount of unsubs is clear feedback whether you agree or not)

 

I think for me having leveled a 50 Shadow and a 50 Trooper (Van) I was having a blast with in pvp, the changes made it so I hardly play them and decided to go back to my low level sent when I do log on. Went into a wz the other day with 3 of us against 7 of them and it stayed that way until the last few minutes.

 

I don't pretend to know the answers I just know that the "fun" went away and the numbers are way down. As a republic player the ilum fiasco bothered me becuse of the gear and valor bump it gave the empire but we dealt with it. Now I don't have the enthusiasm to even log in! I've bought GW 2 and Diablo and we will see how that goes. I haven't unsubbed but I don't have the financial concern others may have, if I get into GW 2 though I probaly will go away and check back in down the road. Too bad though this was the game of my dreams and like the NGE thingy in SWG someone who wasn't qualified made a really bad decision and it's costing them big time.

 

 

Well said and is exactly how i feel...i also bought gw2(played weekend beta loved it & pvp was a blast), bought d3 to have something to do till gw2 is released.

 

LOL...hey at least gw2 allows you to pvp with more then 4 in a group!

[Brittaany_Banks]

Within the first 6 months of an MMOs life subs will drop. This is a guarantee. Additionally since this is a Sci-Fi MMO it will lose ADDITIONAL subs to the WoW kiddies that tried it out cause their other WoW kiddie friends tried it out.

 

Unless the patch is SIGNIFICANTLY game breaking in design (see Star Wars Galaxies New Game Enhancements change circa November 2005) it will not account for a loss in subscriptions. People USUALLY grit their teeth through these patches even ones that see nerfs across the board.

 

 

The sub numbers you THINK may be dropping are actually artificial. BW just recently did server transfers to the Asia/Pacific region recently which means A LOT of players on that side of the planet transferred OFF the Euro/American servers.

 

Biowares problem at this point is not population numbers. Their problem is the population is TOO SPREAD OUT. They need to merge servers or offer free server transfers.

[Vishuz]

OP are you the same 'TheNinjaboy' who posted on the Age of Conan Forums as well as a few other MMO message boards?

[Celebrus]

This should be an apology of epic magnitude showing remorse for butchering the game and soiling their company's previously untarnished good name.

 

I thought this whole thread was actually serious until I read this part. Untarnished, I guess that means that ME2, ME3, and DA2 were all just imaginary failures that I created with my mind to make me think that Bioware wasn't as amazing as I believed they were.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Parali
rude

[Razot]

I thought this whole thread was actually serious until I read this part. Untarnished, I guess that means that ME2, ME3, and DA2 were all just imaginary failures that I created with my mind to make me think that Bioware wasn't as amazing as I believed they were.

 

Well i can hang on the fence about ME2 tbh. It wasn't close to being as cool as one but seemed to be more of a hybrid shooter type and i can go along with that. On the other hand DA2 was a just so bad and it totally crushed my view of Bioware that i didn't even bother with ME3, I was hoping DA2 was just a cash grab to show profit as TOR was guzzling the money but it turns out we just have to say RIP to the old Bioware and hello EA cash grabs.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Parali
bad quote

[Malanoth]

The OP's post says to me: "Don't nerf me bro". He could of saved himself time there by just putting that. Apart from the daft reward changes which got remedied its business as usual with troopers/bh's, knights/warriors, and inquis/cons dominating the warzones. Hell, I just did a wz with 5 troopers on the opposition and all 5 took the top 5 spots with the most damage and most medals so they're in a pretty good place stills in pvp at least and nothing has changed there.

[Durban_Monkey]

OP obviously doesn't know have a clue on how a game it's patches are actually developed.

 

like i said in other posts, why is this the dev's fault? There's a whole company to hold responsible but mainly start with the designers and usability people as they signed off on the patch.

 

what about the testers / quality assurance team? why isn't any one complaining about them?

 

at the end of the day, it's not the dev's fault but the company as a whole...so stop blaming the dev's, ya friggen trolls!

[Malanoth]

The OP's post says to me: "Don't nerf me bro". He could of saved himself time there by just putting that. Apart from the daft reward changes which got remedied its business as usual with troopers/bh's, knights/warriors, and inquis/cons dominating the warzones. Hell, I just did a wz with 5 troopers on the opposition and all 5 took the top 5 spots with the most damage and most medals so they're in a pretty good place stills in pvp at least and nothing has changed there.

[Jahluvsu]

OP obviously doesn't know have a clue on how a game it's patches are actually developed.

 

like i said in other posts, why is this the dev's fault? There's a whole company to hold responsible but mainly start with the designers and usability people as they signed off on the patch.

 

what about the testers / quality assurance team? why isn't any one complaining about them?

 

at the end of the day, it's not the dev's fault but the company as a whole...so stop blaming the dev's, ya friggen trolls!

Come on man, "devs" means BioWare - who is the team resposible for the game and the changes being made. Calling people trolls because they use the term devs shows either ignorance are fanboying. The reality is the statements are true, chalk it up to whichever group at BioWare you want to!

[AngryBuddhist]

OP obviously doesn't know have a clue on how a game it's patches are actually developed.

 

like i said in other posts, why is this the dev's fault? There's a whole company to hold responsible but mainly start with the designers and usability people as they signed off on the patch.

 

what about the testers / quality assurance team? why isn't any one complaining about them?

 

at the end of the day, it's not the dev's fault but the company as a whole...so stop blaming the dev's, ya friggen trolls!

 

This monkey is right. It isn't the DEV's that make horrible design decision. They just implement them.

 

Need to blame the game designers/brand managers. I don't know when major gaming companies started using liberl arts majors and other non technical folks for gaming desicions, but the entire gaming world has gone to hell in a bucket since that moronic shift in who decides what in major gaming comglomerates.

 

WoW went to hell in a bucket when they put that marine biologist know nothing fool in charge... then newer games started off with a non-technical weasel who somehow scammed their way into the most critical job of any game.

 

So like the man says... place blame on the undereducated, untrained, non-technical weasels who think they can design a game. Not on the comp sci major techincal specialists.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Parali
"retarded"

[exphryl]

I enjoy patch 1.2....

[sirbobert]

It's EA. What can you expect from a company that only cares about profits & products sold?

 

+8 million.

 

Look at their football titles. They cornered the marked with exclusive contracts (great for EA, terrible for the consumer) and now both games are rubbish. FIFA is their only sports title worth playing.

[TheNinjaboy]

The activity, population, subscriber base would be higher today if 1.2 never was launched.

 

Players prefer a playable game to a broken one with new content.

 

Bioware has a knack of making understatements of the century.

 

"At that point we turned a huge amount of our resources to PVP development, but we’re still playing a bit of catch-up"

 

The problem is Bioware tried to "develop" PvP in 1.2 and the outcome was one of the worst MMO "class balance" patches ever devised and executed. It was exactly OPPOSITE of what should have been done.

 

This is what should be alarming for people who are currently playing and are considering resubscribing.

Edited May 3, 2012 by TheNinjaboy