What is worse: Quitting match or quitting trying

[richardya]

This is a question I ask of the people who, like me, can not stand quitters. [i understand this game has thousands of quitters who make excuses why they quit but I am not asking to hear their warped opinions on why quitting is justified, obviously I cant prevent their kind from posting but I can ask them not to]

 

Anyway, in many of the "quitter penalty" threads, some of the proud quitters state that if Bioware put in a penalty they will just afk or not try. I believe that these selfish players will not afk but instead, do what selfish people do, and only try for medals. They are too selfish to AFK. I see this all the time in Alderan, on that map the quitters decide when a match in un-winnable and then huddle together at the one turret their team owns for sad defender medals. The metric they use to determine when a match is un-winnnable (in my opinion when it's over) is getting more pathetic. I have seen these quitters quit real early and try and get others to join their loser cause.

 

My questions are:

1) Is in-match quitting worse than actually leaving the warzone?

2) Is it possible that the quitters will learn to try from being "forced" to stay in a match that their nature urges them to quit? ie Can they become decent human beings?

Edited May 1, 2012 by richardya

[Canarak]

I rarely quit any match. The only time I will even consider leaving is when we are facing a pre-made in civil war or novare, when they are just steamrolling us and we cant do anything because of superior teamwork on the pre-mades part, which I totally understand. That kind of domination is not fun for me, and I play to have fun.

 

Now to the giving up point, I admit that I have done this, but only when we would need a three cap on alderaan, and with close teams that is almost impossible. I try to get the most medals that I can every match, and if this causes you frustration I apologize. I am just trying to get better gear to be able to compete more effectively.

[Sporticus]

So basically you want people who share your point of view to contribute to this thread and are forbidding anyone who has ever recognized when a match is effectively over to stay out of it.

 

Personally, I think there isnt' an easy answer to any of your questions. Early in a match, I'd say it's better if someone who is fed up leaves... later in the match I think it's probably smarter to just stick it out for your commendations and valor. You don't have to be Patton to be able to analyze a match and figure out the odds for each team, and making a personal decision at that point doesn't indicate whether you are a decent person or not.

 

Here's a counter question for you. What's worse, someone who recognizes that their team isn't listening, has no plan, and is mathematically out of the game and so decides to milk what they can out of the rest of the time in the warzone without feeding the other team (thus contributing to the enemy growing stronger)... or someone who expects their entire team to suicide over and over until time runs out and justifies it by falsely calling it 'trying'.?

 

If you want people to get back in the fight, propose a strategy.... without raging. If you can't get pugs to follow your instructions, que with people you know you can count on. It's not that hard to pick out people when you're pugging that you know have a clue and get them into a group. I'd much rather people 'quit' than some idiot who has died 15 times rage at me in chat claiming that running in with no strategy to fight 4-8 people on his own is 'trying'.

[richardya]

So basically you want people who share your point of view to contribute to this thread and are forbidding anyone who has ever recognized when a match is effectively over to stay out of it.

 

The topic is "what non-quitters think is better," I wouldn't want the quitters to start posting why they quit as that is not the point of the thread and something I have seen posted thousands of times. I didn't forbid anything, I asked.

 

Here's a counter question for you. What's worse, someone who recognizes that their team isn't listening, has no plan, and is mathematically out of the game and so decides to milk what they can out of the rest of the time in the warzone without feeding the other team (thus contributing to the enemy growing stronger)... or someone who expects their entire team to suicide over and over until time runs out and justifies it by falsely calling it 'trying'.?

 

/sigh Here we go again. Here is an answer. Yesterday two of us continued trying, we ended up taking on a side turret 2 vs 3 three times and finally getting it at the end in a match with 5 people who quit (and one seemed lost.) Now, we didn't get that turret until the match was almost over but... It showed your kind that it's your attitude that is the only thing preventing a win. There is no reason a pug cant beat a premade aside from the quitter cancerous attitude. Me and the other non-quitter never played together before or spoke. We still managed to corordinate CCing one guy while we focused the other two and then he knew which side to stand on to cap (away from speeders) as I CC'ed them when they spawned and came back.

Edited May 1, 2012 by richardya

[kiddeth]

I quit Hutt ball all the time, but before the game starts or I get placed into a game half way through.

[KryptikX]

Is it possible that the quitters will learn to try from being "forced" to stay in a match that their nature urges them to quit? ie Can they become decent human beings?

 

Its a game. Stop taking it so seriously. Quitting a warzone match because you aren't enjoying yourself does not make you indecent... Seriously, get a life.

[AltruisticRage]

Sometimes, knowing when to quit is actually the best way to win in the long run. When I look around at the people in the WZ who have no idea what they are doing, I realize that this will only get me killed and delay my enjoyment of a truly competitive match.

 

I don't play or pay for this game to get put into WZ with sub-15K people who don't know which way to run the Huttball or have no idea what the recruit set is, that can't do more than 50k damage in a match and want to call people names because we don't care about trying when the WZ started 5v8 and are losing 500-200 in CW by the time we actually get 8 people.

 

You can actually blame BW for this as they jerked the rateds and 8-man queues from us before 1.2 launched. I wouldn't be in your PuG groups otherwise. This is why we double-queue and fish for double-guild premades

[richardya]

/thread

 

The quitters dominate these forums.

Edited May 1, 2012 by richardya

[Sporticus]

Now, we didn't get that turret until the match was almost over but... It showed your kind that it's your attitude that is the only thing preventing a win. Their is no reason a pug cant beat a premade aside from the quitter cancerous attitude.

 

What, exactly, is 'my kind'? Just because I don't share your point of view doesn't tell you what you need to know to make that sort of statement. Frankly, I have pulled off similar feats. If it was the end of the match, it's very likely that the other 5 people on the enemy team didn't show up to help because by that time there was no point.

 

If I have a partner in crime to run in with me 2v3, I'll do it all day long. If I have some random player trying to get me to help him 2v6, he can get stuffed.

 

Do I sometimes quit diving into the blender over and over? I sure do.

 

Do I think less of someone who continues to suicide over and over? Nope. Maybe that's a lesson your kind could learn from.

 

Edit : I don't agree with the guy above me who pretty much sounds like he quits as soon as he sees the HP on his team. I've actually found that to be a good time to 'coach' some of the newer 50s up a little, and getting folks to play intelligently can have huge benefits even in a loss.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Sporticus

[AltruisticRage]

/thread

 

The quitters dominate these forums.

 

I rarely quit and only consider it when I am solo.

[richardya]

If I have a partner in crime to run in with me 2v3, I'll do it all day long. If I have some random player trying to get me to help him 2v6, he can get stuffed.

 

If no one quits why would it be 2v6. Quitters always blame their teammates. It justifies quitting to them. The psychology of quitter 101.

[Sporticus]

If no one quits why would it be 2v6. Quitters always blame their teammates. It justifies quitting to them. The psychology of quitter 101.

 

I don't disagree here. However, I don't deign to think I can control what 7 other players do. I can try to get them moving, but am smart enough to know when their morale is bottomed out, in which case my 2v6 scenario is applicable.

 

I do get a chuckle when I 2v6 with a friend and manage to get enough of them piling onto me that he ninja's the turret...even if it flips back about 10 seconds later.

 

It's the little things:D

[KryptikX]

If no one quits why would it be 2v6. .

 

Premades vs PUG with players who don't know what they are doing will result in a lot of 2v6. Having a full team does not suddenly grant newbies knowledge of how to play.

[Kellour]

I don't fault people for quitting when their team started the Warzone with only 3 or 4 people. That's Bioware's fault, not the players'.

[Keiret]

My questions are:

1) Is in-match quitting worse than actually leaving the warzone?

2) Is it possible that the quitters will learn to try from being "forced" to stay in a match that their nature urges them to quit? ie Can they become decent human beings?

 

1) Depends how vocal the person is.

- Quitting the match without a word - irritating but could be anything, called away from pc etc.

- Quittiing the match after screaming and crying, gahh these people really distract everyone

 

- Giving up - a small % in every wz are just farming medals (hiding at capped bases where not needed etc). That seems to drop off after you hit level 50. These people gave up before they even started.

- Giving up and telling the rest of the team to - yep makes me see red at times. I tend to ignore them and carry on, even if it is suicide, trying to pull one person off a capped base for a 1v1 passes the time til the match ends. Anyone I encounter who tells the team to give up goes on my mental list "no heals, no support, kill them when you see them on enemy teams". Do have to bite my tongue sometimes to stop myself from saying something, but most of the time it's pointless and will only make me look just as dumb as them.

 

2) No. Good players can pull matches back from early defeats, and basically never stop trying. Bad players could perhaps be whispered and pursuaded, but it's tricky to do politely and chances are they are too thick to take any constructive advice well. Or consider themselves intellectually superior as they've worked out the odds and decided standing around is a better use of time than playing. Not worth my time, although I've seen others make some snappy retorts and turn games around. All depends on the people involved, not something you can generalise. Some people just cannot stand losing, and there is literally no reasoning with those people. They don't learn a thing during losing matches because they consider it's the rest of the team that's at fault. "Forcing" them to stay in matches will just generate even more nerd raging. Although those of us that do force ourselves to stay no matter what may well be wasting our time, perhaps we do need to take the initiative more and try to direct play constructively.

 

 

Really can't see the point getting overly worked up though. The WZs are team play so there are bound to be all manner of idiot, whether they are simply bad players or gobby. Not wasting any effort worrying about them, and I think the fact that after level 50 the warzones are much tougher for a variety of reasons, weeds them out long term. Never seen any of the people I consider decent PVPers give up. Not even when it is mathematically impossible to win. That says all I need to know about the people who make that argument on the forums.

[richardya]

Premades vs PUG with players who don't know what they are doing will result in a lot of 2v6. Having a full team does not suddenly grant newbies knowledge of how to play.

 

When that happens it's preferable to go to the turret the new player goes to. Wait for them and follow them. If they just went in 1v6 then wait for them to respawn. The new player will see you waiting and start to do the same thing. There is a lot of non-verbal communication in matches. This is how new players learn as opposed to huddling up around a turret and complaining in /ops and laughing at the people trying to win.

 

Never seen any of the people I consider decent PVPers give up. Not even when it is mathematically impossible to win. That says all I need to know about the people who make that argument on the forums.

 

I would say the "best" players on my server never quit but there are "decent" players who still quit. It is very true that the elite (which I am not) never quit. I think playing on a weaker team or a weaker class is probably the best teacher. As a matter of fact, I think that is how the marauder is now called OP. The ones who stuck with it got good and then when other classes got nerfed and they got buffed they became OP.

Edited May 1, 2012 by richardya

[Delanay]

I have more respect for the player who continues to try, than the player who turtles up as soon as the game looks like it might not go their way. In my opinion, the turtler is a loser in every respect and I hate seeing them on my team. I'm with the OP on this; people shouldn't queue up if they're not prepared to fight to the end regardless of the odds.

[Sporticus]

When that happens it's preferable to go to the turret the new player goes to. Wait for them and follow them. If they just went in 1v6 then wait for them to respawn. The new player will see you waiting and start to do the same thing. There is a lot of non-verbal communication in matches. This is how new players learn as opposed to huddling up around a turret and complaining in /ops and laughing at the people trying to win.

 

It's even more effective if you accompany some of that 'non-verbal' communication with some calmly delivered verbal communication. Also, laughing at someone trying to win is different than laughing at someone who thinks that running in and pressing a few buttons = trying to win. (I don't laugh at either of them.)

 

As for the above poster (several posts up actually), nobody thinks they are 'more intelligent' than everyone else (OK, that's probably not true...this is a PvP area). As for quitting when you are mathematically out of it, what is wrong when you need a 3 cap (for example) to win, with people who maybe don't have their 8 medals yet to try to nab at least a couple of defense medals before the match ends? When I say mathematically out of it, I mean something along the lines of 500-200 with 1 turret.

 

There is a HUGE difference between turtling up near the end of a match and turtling up as soon as you think the match might possibly, maybe, just could be a little out of reach.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Sporticus

[TUXs]

The funny thing is, 9/10 times the d-bag whining about his "fail" team, is the guy with the lowest numbers all around...and also 9/10 times a stealth class who sneaks off to "distract" 2-3 other guys on a node.

 

Quitters are better than the continual whiners though. The whiners ruin a fight by taking a spot from someone else who will undoubtedly be of more value than the little twit pounding his keyboard in frustration. I find it hysterical that e-ego's could possibly get so big, that the thought of playing just to have fun escapes them.

 

I fight my **edit** off every round. Win or lose, 0-6 or 6-0, I'll stick it out. I ALWAYS try. I don't always win. And I NEVER quit.

[Spuck]

I would rather players quit the match all together if they are just going to, for example, sit there at a turret and do nothing while 3 or 4 try to actually attempt to take cap a node.

 

That kind of thing is even worse in the new warzone. I have won those where we had 2% and enemy had 98%. If you actually try harder, then you CAN turn the tide in that warzone. But I have also seen Alderaan's at, approx, 400 to 500 and half the team give up and sit on left turret twiddling their thumbs until it's too late... then gripe that we already lost so why are people "feeding" the enemy.

[Sporticus]

Down 5-0 in a ****tball. Enemy team has a guarded sniper in cover near our goal line and are obliterating everybody that steps out of the spawn. I cryo to knock him out of cover, then grapple him across the line to end everyone's suffering. Quitter?

 

The problem with this debate of quitting is that there are too many 'shades of grey' areas.

 

I agree that the people 'whining' or raging in chat while not doing anything and coming up with low numbers are the worst to have on your team.

 

If I eventually back off to a turret, and on the final scoreboard I have top damage, protection, and kb's on our team, then I challenge anyone to say that I didn't 'try'.

 

Yes, it's a slow day at work for me.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Sporticus

[richardya]

IAs for quitting when you are mathematically out of it, what is wrong when you need a 3 cap (for example) to win, with people who maybe don't have their 8 medals yet to try to nab at least a couple of defense medals before the match ends?

 

As you know, you are never mathematically out of it, post 1.2 Voidstar change.

It's hard to explain in words but sports is the best analogy. There are MLB players who quit trying in a 9-0 baseball game. Then there are the players (Yankees Redsox 2012) who compete and one in twenty times comeback. It's why the comeback is so special when it's effectively just another win. Throwing the comeback chance away for medals.

 

IThere is a HUGE difference between turtling up near the end of a match and turtling up as soon as you think the match might possibly, maybe, just could be a little out of reach.

 

Some of us don't turtle up at the end either.

 

If I eventually back off to a turret, and on the final scoreboard I have top damage, protection, and kb's on our team, then I challenge anyone to say that I didn't 'try'..

 

You did quit even with those individual achievements.

You stopped trying.

You gave up.

Challenge us not to say that.

Edited May 1, 2012 by richardya

[Keiret]

I would say the "best" players on my server never quit but there are "decent" players who still quit. It is very true that the elite (which I am not) never quit. I think playing on a weaker team or a weaker class is probably the best teacher. As a matter of fact, I think that is how the marauder is now called OP. The ones who stuck with it got good and then when other classes got nerfed and they got buffed they became OP.

 

My main is a marauder I don't class myself as "elite" either and there's plenty of room for improvement in my play. There is a group of lvl 80-90 valour players on our server who premade together in a group of 4-5 and win literally every match. Moments like that I can sympathise with the quitters. But I like slowing them down and my attitude when I come up against them is, "OK they're going to win, make em bleed for it". Really entertains me tearing them down from 6-0 matches to 2-0 and terrorising their key players. Sadly I think I am a tiny minority who enjoys this type of challenge. I do think those matches improve my play, but I can't force anyone else to share that view.

 

As for the above poster (several posts up actually), nobody thinks they are 'more intelligent' than everyone else (OK, that's probably not true...this is a PvP area). As for quitting when you are mathematically out of it, what is wrong when you need a 3 cap (for example) to win, with people who maybe don't have their 8 medals yet to try to nab at least a couple of defense medals before the match ends? When I say mathematically out of it, I mean something along the lines of 500-200 with 1 turret.

 

There is a HUGE difference between turtling up near the end of a match and turtling up as soon as you think the match might possibly, maybe, just could be a little out of reach.

 

I see this as a medal farming mentality, sorry. The focus of that statement seems to be that medals are the objective, or a minimum requirement to completing a match. If I close a match with 4 medals, low/mid range damage/kills, no MPV votes; I don't care. I'm playing to win, and if I can't win, to slow down and aggravate the other team as much as possible. Quitting doesn't factor into it at any level. Again, this is a matter of opinion, and I know I'm in a minority. Short cuts to gear are to farm medals in losing matches. The longer view would be to improve my play to the point I get them anyway.

[Divona]

I rarely quit any match. The only time I will even consider leaving is when we are facing a pre-made in civil war or novare, when they are just steamrolling us and we cant do anything because of superior teamwork on the pre-mades part, which I totally understand. That kind of domination is not fun for me, and I play to have fun.

 

What if there are servers where full WH geared imps do that every day and less and less players put up with that in rep side.

 

Hard to choose after seeing that every day, not even talk about getting daily done. Bioware should have abandoned at least daily as it is now long ago and changed it to progress type mission. Its sad to see all the premades or gear farmed since ilum exploit now just roll over everything. I really admire those who put up being facerolled over and over and yet still waste many hours each day just to get tiny amount wz commentations at least.

I can tell its not fun were talking here.

I can tell what happened. Bioware make mistake not separating lvl 50 bracket soon enough, we al lremember that dont we. Now is same thing, overgeared and fat pvp'er farm others because bioware didnt bring rated WZ's.

Desperate act was to bring npc vendor selling high expertise gear for starters. It helps a bit but stat wise they are still miles away from BM and beyond.

 

Top of that no solo or team queue WZ that we were promised. It would help to get rid of premades queueing pug wz's. Face it alot want just fun when starrting pvp and meeting premades with high geared, this is what happened.,,, its all over the pvp forums now.

[richardya]

There is a group of lvl 80-90 valour players on our server who premade together in a group of 4-5 and win literally every match. Moments like that I can sympathise with the quitters. But I like slowing them down and my attitude when I come up against them is, "OK they're going to win, make em bleed for it".

 

Same, I love scoring when a match is 5-0. I love not letting them get the 6-0 win. This is just as enjoyable as winning 6-0 even if you don't get the medals or commendations. It's just the fun of competing.

 

It would help to get rid of premades queueing pug wz's. Face it alot want just fun when starrting pvp and meeting premades with high geared, this is what happened.,,, its all over the pvp forums now.

 

Maybe, maybe the quitters would have other excuses. I have heard quitters complain about the other team's gear or about class make up. I feel like quitters will always have an excuse. To the people who won't quit, the excuses start to sound all the same.

Edited May 1, 2012 by richardya