Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Mallorik]

Soooo... if you had an LFG tool that you can toggle the X-server function to "ON", and he had an LFG tool that he can turn the X-server function to "OFF", where is the problem?

 

We should be teaming up and asking BioWare to make one instead of bickering over nothing now that a solution is here.

 

Unless you think that not enough people would use the X-server toggle? That people have to be "forced" to so that you can have your group?

 

I dont think you can find one person who wants a cross server lfg tool who would not agree to a toggle ability.

 

On the other hand i i think you would find alot less people who dont want cross server to agree to it, and getting their explanation as to why not would be nearly impossible, because they dont seem to have any real reasons except that they dont like it.

[Mallorik]

It becomes a problem when people who try to genuinely RPG the "old" fashioned way have to battle against the path of least resistance. What if Bioware is trying to break the mold and make an actual MMORPG where it's not all about telporting to instances all the time? Maybe the Pro X-LFG people are in the wrong game, is it their right to change that?

 

Yeah i hope they never let you teleport to a flashpoint, it would be nice if they put them all on one ship that was just a short speeder ride away from the main hub that would really keep the rpg in this mmo.

[JeramieCrowe]

I dont think you can find one person who wants a cross server lfg tool who would not agree to a toggle ability.

 

On the other hand i i think you would find alot less people who dont want cross server to agree to it, and getting their explanation as to why not would be nearly impossible, because they dont seem to have any real reasons except that they dont like it.

 

Well, I'm anti-X-server, and I'm the one that suggested it.

 

But, fine, challenge accepted. Anyone else that's anti-X-server: if you could use a LFG tool that guaranteed no one in your group would be from another server if you unchecked/toggled off X-server, why wouldn't you want it?

[mothear]

Well, I'm anti-X-server, and I'm the one that suggested it.

 

But, fine, challenge accepted. Anyone else that's anti-X-server: if you could use a LFG tool that guaranteed no one in your group would be from another server if you unchecked/toggled off X-server, why wouldn't you want it?

 

I don't have a great issue however I believe the issue as it goes is;

 

As people who don't particularly care one way or another tend to take the path of least resistance those that were available to group with, and are currently grouping, will if they aren't that bothered about picking their own groups move over to the LFG which will offer the lowest wait time therefore diluting the pool that was available for those who do not want to use x-server.

[Skirata_Kal]

Why are we still arguing about this?

 

Just implement a LFG tool with an X-server toggle and call it a day. Both viewpoints get served.

 

I would certainly be ok with that.

[RachelAnne]

It does not matter if its xrealm or not, the issue is the lack of influence on your group.

 

Now that addons are falling from the sky like raindrops the doors are open for elitist´s and atleast I dont want these in my groups and they dont want me casual in theirs either.

 

The whole discussion about xrealm or not is pretty much pointless, as the problem is something else.

 

On my realm are people too I would never join a group if they make one, all those I would then get in a LFG tool - pointless.

[TKMaster]

How about this...

 

a LFG tool.. that uses only ppl in your own server.

 

Or, as i've been saying for years....x-server LFG with like server types....that way i dont have to get into an argument everytime ppl from PVP servers shows up in PVP gear and proced to tell me thier not changing gear and how thier going to sodomize my children if they die <-----(WoW examples that happened to me every other LFD group)

[Goreslash]

Sadly human nature dictates this would be grossly abused.

 

thats is just why he is sugesting it cant u see that

[Valkirus]

It does not matter if its xrealm or not, the issue is the lack of influence on your group.

 

Now that addons are falling from the sky like raindrops the doors are open for elitist´s and atleast I dont want these in my groups and they dont want me casual in theirs either.

 

The whole discussion about xrealm or not is pretty much pointless, as the problem is something else.

 

On my realm are people too I would never join a group if they make one, all those I would then get in a LFG tool - pointless.

 

A big part of the discussion is being able to experence the end game content in a timely manner. How can that be pointless? The issue with it having a lack of influence on your group is a concern for some, but it is not the only issue here. And if the ignore list would prevent those you donot want to play with from grouping with you when you used a LFG tool, how would a LFG tool or a cross server one negatively impact you?

[Skirata_Kal]

Or, as i've been saying for years....x-server LFG with like server types....that way i dont have to get into an argument everytime ppl from PVP servers shows up in PVP gear and proced to tell me thier not changing gear and how thier going to sodomize my children if they die <-----(WoW examples that happened to me every other LFD group)

 

I have no huge objection to the keeping it to server types suggestion. In my WoW experience, I can count on one hand the number of xserver groups that were as truly bad as you describe and I've encountered similar groups in TOR without a xserver tool. There were other bad WoW groups where it was all about what the dps meter said (amazing actually since for a very long time, the dps meter didn't work correctly in xrealm groups lol). Most of my xrealm groups were positive experiences though. The one concession I'll make to the 'community crowd' is that many of those were non-social, enter the dungeon, down the bosses and leave, with nothing more than 'Ready?" and "Thx for group" entering the chat box. Then again, many of my same server groups in WoW were that way too.

 

I play TOR with a small group of RL friends now, since the guild of 175 we had on our 'old' Republic server died (never more than 4 on at a time for their last 3 weeks). Last night we ran an fp together which was fun. Sadly, our schedules are such that we can only get together like that one or two times per week. It would be nice to be able to get groups for fp's more often during those times we're playing when the others aren't available, without spending significant amounts of playing time, spamming 'LFG' in fleet (or that useless Flag yourself for group 'tool'). And can someone please explain to me again how wanting to get more groups makes someone 'unsociable?'

 

Please note that much of my above comments are aimed at the naysayers in general and not specifically at the person I quoted.

[chaosdefined]

thats is just why he is sugesting it cant u see that

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.

[Muskaan]

People have already explained why cross-server group finder is bad on the forums. For reasonable people with common sense, they will understand it. For unreasonable people who don't listen to anyone but themselves, no amount of "explaining" will convince them.

 

"Emperor's New Clothes" Syndrome,

[mothear]

..... how would a LFG tool or a cross server one negatively impact you?

 

For simplicities sake lets say there are 10 jerks per server equally divided so 5 jerks on each faction. With same server it's quite easy to isolate those jerks from my play. However with x-server I'm then (being on an EU server) faced with coming across 455 jerks! Yes, I can put them on ignore, hopefully all, but my play will be impaired for a much longer period of time whilst my ignore list fills up.

 

Yes obviously x-server allows for a more timely instance however I'd prefer to take a little longer and stay same realm, for the moment. You can say make a toggle and we can have the best of both worlds, well I've already stated above why I believe that that doesn't create a level playing field. Obviously you don't accept that but sticking your head in the sand and refusing to accept that other people have these concerns just brings us in circles.

 

Bioware are already working on a same server LFG but you just wont give it a chance, I understand that. I'm willing to wait and see if it, together with transfers will work. If it doesn't I'll grudgingly support a x-server tool.

[Mallorik]

For simplicities sake lets say there are 10 jerks per server equally divided so 5 jerks on each faction. With same server it's quite easy to isolate those jerks from my play. However with x-server I'm then (being on an EU server) faced with coming across 455 jerks! Yes, I can put them on ignore, hopefully all, but my play will be impaired for a much longer period of time whilst my ignore list fills up.

 

Yes obviously x-server allows for a more timely instance however I'd prefer to take a little longer and stay same realm, for the moment. You can say make a toggle and we can have the best of both worlds, well I've already stated above why I believe that that doesn't create a level playing field. Obviously you don't accept that but sticking your head in the sand and refusing to accept that other people have these concerns just brings us in circles.

 

Bioware are already working on a same server LFG but you just wont give it a chance, I understand that. I'm willing to wait and see if it, together with transfers will work. If it doesn't I'll grudgingly support a x-server tool.

 

I would be fine with waiting for them to figure out that a same server lfg tool wont work and that they have to make it x-server. If this was 3 or 4 months ago.

[gurugeorge]

Incidentally, what's wrong with the LFG tool that's already in the game? You can search for all flagged LFG in your zone, or for a selection of people on your server. People who flag themselves LFG aren't usually averse to a quick, polite private tell. But even people who haven't set their flag may have the same mission as you, which they have flagged, and, again, are for that purpose likely to be amenable to a quick, polite private tell. Heck, so long as you're polite and bear in mind that a person may be busy, most people aren't averse to a little conversation. (This is not like cold calling, since players are playing a massively multiplayer online game, and those intent on soloing can easily say "not lfg" or whatever.)

 

And meanwhile of course you can stick the occasional lft request in general.

 

Automated tool is nice too, but the tool that exists is still functional for the purposes of communication.

 

*sigh* for all the modern era boasts of communication, it seems like communication skills are being lost in MMOs.

Edited May 8, 2012 by gurugeorge

[Skidrowbro]

Incidentally, what's wrong with the LFG tool that's already in the game? You can search for all flagged LFG in your zone, or for a selection of people on your server. People who flag themselves LFG aren't usually averse to a quick, polite private tell. But even people who haven't set their flag may have the same mission as you, which they have flagged, and, again, are for that purpose likely to be amenable to a quick, polite private tell. Heck, so long as you're polite and bear in mind that a person may be busy, most people aren't averse to a little conversation. (This is not like cold calling, since players are playing a massively multiplayer online game, and those intent on soloing can easily say "not lfg" or whatever.)

 

And meanwhile of course you can stick the occasional lft request in general.

 

Automated tool is nice too, but the tool that exists is still functional for the purposes of communication.

 

*sigh* for all the modern era boasts of communication, it seems like communication skills are being lost in MMOs.

 

Being hand held tends to do this but I have a feeling a lot of players don't even know that an LFG tool does exist right now

[Crazy_Person]

Not so much, there is a lot of emotion tied up in this question and that makes it VERY complex... plus there are hundreds of differing opinions and then shades of grey on each opinion.

 

The person talking was someone who asking for the other side of the story... and I tried to give him the short answer.There is a lot to everything but the arguements I made are what I have seen as the most common ones.

Profiling people is dangerous, putting everyone in a group like this because your personal experience has been bad is a slippery slope. I have not come to that conclusion and I have been playing since Ruins of Kunark came out in EQ1.

 

I could have put that better... many people are jerks and when they can hide behind a charecter instead of their true reputation they are more willing to be jerks.

This is in great debate, many people have said that if you try and post xxx is a troll or ninja, or you say it in /trade in WoW... people either do not believe you, or you get accused of being one yourself. The only people that this really has effect on is your personal buddys that you run with.

 

I remember a particular player back in Vanellia WOW... go into any vent server mention his name and someone would start ranting about their bad expirence with him. When all was single server... people outside of his guild did not want to team with him. This guy was horrible... did everything he could to provoke people into saying something he could report them for, made it a point to announce he was not going to work with the team in BGs, and got upset when people attacked him in the arena. (for those who don't know that is an area where once you jump in you are hostile to everyone outside of your gruop.) Allthough there was no x server at the time, he was able to get away with it becasue of his guild and his class... that kind of behavior got a lot more common when I saw the game post X server.

 

This is open to huge debate also. I know many people that dont care at all about loot and if you need on something and ninja it... they just want to run with competent people and get dungeons done to get valor.

Yes... the classic play is "Nuh uh your the bad guy not me" but once a player does that enough word gets around. Having people come to one's defense is uesally a good thing. in a pug, 3 peole from 3 different guilds each tell their guilds and then they tell others... does it work 100% of the time? No. But when reptuation is important to find gruops... people are more protective of it.

Again a very dangerous statement... no proof of this is in evidence, this is your personal observation. Saying someone is more likely to harass someone due to a LFG tool? Wow...

 

You tell me there is no proof? Why don't you offer some proff against it? It is simple logic... if someone is a jerk and you remove the consaquences of being a jerk they will be a jerk.

The problem with this is many people do not care about a community and just want to play the game. Many do not see a community at all, they see themselves mindlessly doing /tank LF Flashpoint xyz... and getting no group and logging off.

Which is why I said the game needs to be evaluated by the developers, find out what places aren't getting runned, what the average wait time is to find a group, how many build or fall apart... if stuff is being skipped then yes the X server is needed. With that said the right balance between playing the game, and facilitating long term teams needs to be found.

 

Another VERY subjective point... If you are a very casual player then yes, this statement may be true, if you take the game a bit more seriously... applications and vent interviews are not only the norm... but just the beginning of being able to join a guild.

I don't see how needing to go through the getting a JOB process should be the norm in a game. Seems a lot easier and a lot more fun to actually play with the people and see if they are fun, skilled, and trainable instead of trying to figure that all out from a resume. Yes, many guilds will stick with that... but for the people who are having enough problems with that kind of stuff in the real world and don't want to deal with that in the game it is important

This is where it seems the point is made, everything else kind of falls by the wayside... if you cant get a group and cant do content... you wont stay subbed for this game and you will never meet people to begin with.

 

We agree on this.

Yet another very dangerous idea... forcing people to do anything almost like cutting your own throat... people pay money to play how they want to play... not how they are dictated to play. That being said there is enough forced on us as is, and enough options taken away as is, it would be best not to add another one.

Setting up the game to facilitate a goal of socilization, and long term teams seems like a good goal to me. It might be hard to get hard mode content together... but people are going to clear past that slower than the level up game. And once they find a gruop hopefully they remember eachother if it goes well. I have friended a few people... they are all either to high or to low to group with atm. Different lives, different leveling paces. At endgame things change a bit.

 

Very good point, I agree 100% and I think this is where the pro LFG people are standing... they just want to do content and cant with how things are now... for whatever reason, be it low pop server, anti social fleet, no one on planets... whatever the problem is.

 

 

I agree again, I have 2 50's and neither saw a FP past Black Talon on the way to 50... and trust me, I looked. I have played every FP with my Jedi Consular because I rolled her on Fatman (by far the highest pop server)

 

Much of hwat you said is well it is just my opnion... do you have facts to back up your point? I don't expect us to agree... but would be nice to see some numbers that are more than I offered.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Crazy_Person

[Crazy_Person]

Being hand held tends to do this but I have a feeling a lot of players don't even know that an LFG tool does exist right now

 

Exactly... no tool is useful if people don't use it... Reminds me of the meeting stones in WOW... completely useless. If the community is not useing them, then there is something wrong... unless the dev can convince people it works and gives good results then it is a problem.

 

I have yet to see more than one person my level with a LFG thing on them... and when i whispered them there responce was basically "no thank you, i need to turn that thing off"

[chaosdefined]

Exactly... no tool is useful if people don't use it... Reminds me of the meeting stones in WOW... completely useless. If the community is not useing them, then there is something wrong... unless the dev can convince people it works and gives good results then it is a problem.

 

I have yet to see more than one person my level with a LFG thing on them... and when i whispered them there responce was basically "no thank you, i need to turn that thing off"

 

This has been explained before, but the current LFG tool is poorly designed. It's like bringing out an old-fashioned car with a wind up motor in todays modern age. People will complain that others are too lazy and coddled to bother with it, but the simple fact of the matter is people don't use it because it's weak.

[Skidrowbro]

but the simple fact of the matter is people don't use it because it's weak.

You can use it to scan any area you want to see who is playing and start sending out invites. God forbid having to actually go out and meet people in an MMORPG. Try doing the RPG part, that's where the fun is.

 

And face the facts, you don't use it because you don't want to. It's too inconvenient. Well I have some sad news for you then, SWTOR may not be for you

Edited May 8, 2012 by Averran
rude

[Evangelist]

The biggest gripe really isn't community...to me that's crap. You have a chance to meet more people cross server then you do in your server. The biggest gripe is it takes away the communities ability to police itself in its groups. Say bob is a huge troll. always pulls wrong stuff, gets team wiped over and over, generally just doesn't give a rip. In the system now, the community has the ability to just not invite him to a group. He learns and either changes or leaves. LFG tool basically allows bob to troll as much as he wants and just reque up. that gripe i can definitely understand.

 

That actually is "community", since Bob can be a jerk without reprecussion he and other like him can behave in whatver manner they like which has a negative impact on the community. Additionally how many of those people you meet that are on another server do you actually bother to get to know? You can't arrange to run with them again, and its doubtful you'll ever get thrown together in a random group again. Essentially they become "Warm body #5674" and you never worry about building a friends list or even your own rep since you can just fill your groups with random warm bodies until you've beat the FP or Op. This degrades the social aspect of the community as surely as the rampant Bobs.

[chaosdefined]

That actually is "community", since Bob can be a jerk without reprecussion he and other like him can behave in whatver manner they like which has a negative impact on the community. Additionally how many of those people you meet that are on another server do you actually bother to get to know? You can't arrange to run with them again, and its doubtful you'll ever get thrown together in a random group again. Essentially they become "Warm body #5674" and you never worry about building a friends list or even your own rep since you can just fill your groups with random warm bodies until you've beat the FP or Op. This degrades the social aspect of the community as surely as the rampant Bobs.

 

Once again, community is different to everyone. Your idea of a utopean community no longer exists in modern day MMO's because the playerbase is far too large to encompass any type of small group community feelings. That is why there are Guilds.

Edited May 8, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Valkirus]

That actually is "community", since Bob can be a jerk without reprecussion he and other like him can behave in whatver manner they like which has a negative impact on the community. Additionally how many of those people you meet that are on another server do you actually bother to get to know? You can't arrange to run with them again, and its doubtful you'll ever get thrown together in a random group again. Essentially they become "Warm body #5674" and you never worry about building a friends list or even your own rep since you can just fill your groups with random warm bodies until you've beat the FP or Op. This degrades the social aspect of the community as surely as the rampant Bobs.

 

Actually it is possible to run with players from your own server in a cross server LFG run. That is how we added a couple new members to our guild in WoW in fact. And the jerks? You will allways have them. Just like crooks, no matter what..there will allways be those. Easy to deal with. Place them on ignore and move on.

[hijaxhfx]

LFG Tool is gonna be a great addition to the game, and is so needed right now as there are way too many servers, with low pop's.

 

Why should i have to sit around the fleet or even have to be in some guild to raid. i don't have time to make plans for one night or another, does this mean that i should not be able to see and play end game content? to each their own,if you wanna be in a guild and have that tight community feeling that's your right. you don't have to use the lfg tool at all and it wont effect what your doing now one bit. but it will help a lot of people.

[ferroz]

And face the facts, you don't use it because you don't want to.

Indeed, and people don't want to because it's useless.

 

the fact that the current lfg tool is useless for some people does not not mean that SWTOR is "not the game for them" ... it just means that the current lfg tool is useless...