Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Phyreblade]

If it has to be explained to you, than all the rational explanations in the world wont be able to change your mind, because you already have an entrenched opinion that you aren't going to change. Ever.

 

Seriously, am I the only person here who's been through these "discussions" on the internet?

 

Baffling.

 

This.

[Miscai]

I don't have an issue with an LFG tool, I have a problem with a cross-server LFG tool.

 

The problem with a cross-server dungeon finder is there are no consequences for being a jerk. When people can only group with those on their server they behave better. If they don't, then very quickly they develop a reputation for the bad behavior. Eventually they essentially get black listed on the server and will not be able to find a group at all. It therefore behooves people to observe some very basic etiquette.

 

When you have a cross-server tool, however, it becomes very unlikely that you will see others in your group on a regular basis. As such, there is no worry about building a bad reputation (or even a good one for that matter). This leaves people leeway to act in deplorable ways.

 

I have never had anything but horrible experiences with cross-server tools. I cannot tell you how many times I have been in a group and had a member (usually the tank or healer) drop out after the first boss because the item they were after either didn't drop or they did not win it. It is a rare cross-server group where there isn't at least one member constantly griping that another group member isn't playing "the way it should be done", which incidently coincides with how the whiner thinks that class should be played. This often leads to said whiner dropping group and more often than not, doing so in the middle of fight. I have also had many people drop group before starting even a single fight because the class that is marked as the tank or healer, in their opinion, is incapable of fulfilling that role.

 

I take issue with people who sing the praises for cross-server LFG tools because, in spite of what they want you to believe, they really don't work all that well. Why? Because they can do nothing to fix the main problem with finding groups - more people play DPS classes than play tanks or healers. I REGULARLY sat in WoW's cross-server LFG queue for 3-5 hours without getting a group invite. There were times where I spent all day waiting for a group and did not get a single invite.

 

I am all for a same server LFG tool. I think those help the server community by facilitating the meeting of new people. With cross-server you don't get this benefit since there is no reason to get to know those from other servers since you are unlikely to see them again. With same-server though, you will likely run into those you are grouped with again and thus you not only make the effort to become aquanted with your party members, you are on your best behavior.

 

I truly believe that a fair part of the problem with grouping in modern MMOs (and most I have played do in fact have a grouing problem, including WoW) is the hard faction line. It didn't used to be that way. With today's inability to group with the other faction you are essentially given only around half, give or take a bit, of a server population to choose your party members from. I have hated the hard faction line from it's initial inception. Personally I feel it not only limits grouping opportunities, it also impedes roleplay in a big way.

 

Even a same-server LFG tool does not address the simple fact that more people play DPS classes than play tanks or healers. I think this is made worse in SWTOR because of the extremely small party size available. Every party needs one tank and one healer, that leaves only two slots for DPS. This leaves a lot of DPS players waiting for groups.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Miscai

[Valkirus]

and people just don't know about the immunity to kick i.e. 'this player cannot be kicked for xx number of hours' as some immunity type function will need to be inserted to prevent griefing.

 

Lol! Hours? It is like for the first 15 mins and shortly after combat. Lets not exaggerate here.

[Valkirus]

Actually, I've leveled a couple of healers and a single Jugg tank, all without a LFG tool. And I have no complaints from even a single HM group I've run along with at end game. To the point, my Merc is geared in full Rakata and my tank is well on the way to the same. Mind you, I've never ever had a real issue finding groups. I didn't rely upon the computer to find me people to play with, shrug.

 

But by all means, continue beating the dead horse, sigh.

 

That is nice. I am glad you was able to do that and your success on your server. But this cannot be taken as a given for a lot of other cases. And yeah..it does help if you are a tank or healer spec.

[Miscai]

People just don't know about the kick button I guess. No DPSer ques in as a tank and lasts more than 5 minutes until getting kicked. Maybe this happened a lot more when the LFD tool was first implemented in WoW, but not anymore. People que in to FINISH the run. A DPS player knows they won't last long if they que in as a Tank, therefore, it's rare that it happens now.

 

The problem with kicking someone, especially if it is the person who queued as the tank or healer, is you are then stuck in queue again waiting for another member. If you have already killed a boss (and the kick timer is often set so you do have enough time to do so) then you are likely to get someone who immediately drops because they want to start the dungeon fresh either because the boss you killed has an item they want or they need the entire dungeon for a quest.

[Kemosobe]

Why do we not want one? STAR WARS GALAXIES, that's why. Look at what happened with Star Wars Galaxies when they implemented things to for the ease of players. DESTROYED IT. Star Wars Galaxies is the biggest and most realistic example of why us people against a LFG tool are against it. Use to have to actually work for things in Star Wars Galaxies, then BOOM, simplicity. Oh, and by the way. STAR WARS GALAXIES. Have I mentioned how simplicity ruined Star Wars Galaxies yet? Oh, I have? Well I will say it again, "SIMPLICITY RUINED STAR WARS GALAXIES!!"

 

All this game needs is server transfers and server merges.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Kemosobe

[DarthTHC]

Why do we not want one? STAR WARS GALAXIES, that's why. Look at what happened with Star Wars Galaxies when they implemented things to for the ease of players. DESTROYED IT. Star Wars Galaxies is the biggest and most realistic example of why us people against a LFG tool are against it. Use to have to actually work for things in Star Wars Galaxies, then BOOM, simplicity. Oh, and by the way. STAR WARS GALAXIES. Have I mentioned how simplicity ruined Star Wars Galaxies yet? Oh, I have? Well I will say it again, "SIMPLICITY RUINED STAR WARS GALAXIES!!"

 

All this game needs is server transfers and server merges.

 

Except LFG doesn't make anything easier for players. It makes things less tedious and boring and unfun. There is nothing particularly challenging about spamming fleet for an hour.

 

One could argue that LFG makes things harder for players because it actually gets us into content that's more challenging than the solo quests and dailies.

[mothear]

Lol! Hours? It is like for the first 15 mins and shortly after combat. Lets not exaggerate here.

 

If you honestly have played WoW, then you would know that during Cata one of the issues with LFG was that some griefers would either:-

 

Join with an AFK friend, who they would kick thus giving themselves immunity;

or

Build up an extensive kick time, I've seen them in excess of 3 hours before.

[Kemosobe]

Except LFG doesn't make anything easier for players. It makes things less tedious and boring and unfun. There is nothing particularly challenging about spamming fleet for an hour.

 

One could argue that LFG makes things harder for players because it actually gets us into content that's more challenging than the solo quests and dailies.

 

So clicking a button and having the game automatically put you into a group then instantly teleporting you to the entrance is not easier when compared to the other side which involves you actually talking with people and getting everyone to come to the entrance and making sure everyone is of the proper level, spec, gear, yourself? The current LFG tool that is already in the game is as much simplicity as you will get without the game doing all of those things for you without you needing to think.

[HoneyBoy]

So clicking a button and having the game automatically put you into a group then instantly teleporting you to the entrance is not easier when compared to the other side which involves you actually talking with people and getting everyone to come to the entrance and making sure everyone is of the proper level, spec, gear, yourself? The current LFG tool that is already in the game is as much simplicity as you will get without the game doing all of those things for you without you needing to think.

 

The challenge of an FP or OPS should be the actual content of the FP or OPS, not the logistics behind forming a group together, not building a vast network of social contacts over time that you can draw upon to fill your needs, not the current LFG tool that is inadequate and underused, and certainly not fighting with your servers lack of population.

Edited May 5, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[Kemosobe]

The challenge of an FP or OPS should be the actual content of the FP or OPS, not the logistics behind forming a group together, not building a vast network of social contacts over time that you can draw upon to fill your needs, not the current LFG tool that is inadequate and underused, and certainly not fighting with your lack of servers population.

 

If you want simplicity, go to WoW. From how this game is now, it shows that they do not want people to be as lazy as possible. If you do not want to bother needing to talk to people to do things and forming bonds you can use later in your experience, don't play a game that requires this.

 

As for the servers, it is why I have stated several times in several different threads that all they need is server merging.

[DarthTHC]

So clicking a button and having the game automatically put you into a group then instantly teleporting you to the entrance is not easier when compared to the other side which involves you actually talking with people and getting everyone to come to the entrance and making sure everyone is of the proper level, spec, gear, yourself? The current LFG tool that is already in the game is as much simplicity as you will get without the game doing all of those things for you without you needing to think.

 

No, the stuff that you say the LFG tool will cut out is tedious, not challenging. It does not make me think.

 

Figuring out how to beat a boss I've never seen is challenging. It makes me think. Watching TV doesn't make me think. Nor does looking at someone's gear or level.

 

The current LFG tool that is already in the game is so stellarly amazing that the devs are replacing it. Let's give it a rest on that topic, shall we?

[HoneyBoy]

If you want simplicity, go to WoW. From how this game is now, it shows that they do not want people to be as lazy as possible. If you do not want to bother needing to talk to people to do things and forming bonds you can use later in your experience, don't play a game that requires this.

 

As for the servers, it is why I have stated several times in several different threads that all they need is server merging.

 

All it takes is spamming "LFM ANY HM FP" in your fleet and hoping you were smart enough to roll on The Fatman or any of the other top 5 servers. Players will always take the path of least resistance, I understand that. That's probably why PvP is as popular as it is because you press a button and you're queued, (not exactly sure how Bioware was surprised by that?).

 

Right now spamming "LFM" in fleet chat is the path of least resistance. If you feel that this is a necessary addition to running a FP, along with your singular view of being forced to "build bonds with people", instead of a more adequate LFG tool then I'd argue that your mentality is far more venomous to the SWTOR community than a cross server tool would ever be.

[DarthTHC]

If you want simplicity, go to WoW. From how this game is now, it shows that they do not want people to be as lazy as possible. If you do not want to bother needing to talk to people to do things and forming bonds you can use later in your experience, don't play a game that requires this.

 

As for the servers, it is why I have stated several times in several different threads that all they need is server merging.

 

You keep using that word, "simplicity". I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

It is not lazy to want to DO flashpoints instead of WAIT to do flashpoints, any more than it's lazy to WRITE A TERM PAPER rather than PROCRASTINATING about writing a term paper.

 

Server merging will not work. Go to the 1 or 2 full servers at primetime. Look at their population. They cannot support a reasonable number of groups sub-50 (except the first flashpoint). They cannot support a reasonable number of groups outside of primetime at any level.

[turjake]

Why do we not want one? STAR WARS GALAXIES, that's why. Look at what happened with Star Wars Galaxies when they implemented things to for the ease of players. DESTROYED IT. Star Wars Galaxies is the biggest and most realistic example of why us people against a LFG tool are against it. Use to have to actually work for things in Star Wars Galaxies, then BOOM, simplicity. Oh, and by the way. STAR WARS GALAXIES. Have I mentioned how simplicity ruined Star Wars Galaxies yet? Oh, I have? Well I will say it again, "SIMPLICITY RUINED STAR WARS GALAXIES!!"

 

All this game needs is server transfers and server merges.

 

Few other things you didnt mention regarding SWG::

- They changed the whole combat mechanics without telling the players about it until it was in the testing phase.

- They took away the jedi alpha class status and gave anyone ability to roll a jedi ->loads of angered veteran jedis who werent suddenly special any more

- The whole thing was so filled with bugs that when my old hd broke, I didnt bother to buy another to play swg, I took a break of 6 months instead. Afterwards it was kind of playable atleast.

- Wow came around the same time -> people had something new to play

- Neither swg, nor wow had LFG tool at the time

 

If I remember something wrong, then I do, I am now too lazy to check the times when these things happened actually

[Phyreblade]

That is nice. I am glad you was able to do that and your success on your server. But this cannot be taken as a given for a lot of other cases. And yeah..it does help if you are a tank or healer spec.

 

Which is what I said to start. MY experience with a LFG tool has been negative and MY experience in this game without a LFG tool has been positive. It's POSSIBLE for others to share MY experience but that doesn't mean anyone else will. Each of us will end up with different perspectives and experiences and will thus feel differently about such a thing as a LFG tool.

 

Therefore, asking anyone to "explain" their feelings, based on their experience and perspective, simply doesn't make sense. You're not going to change my mind, I don't like LFG tools, I think they have negative effects on a game, and I don't really want one. But I respect not everyone feels that way, and I'm perfectly fine with that. It doesn't offend me nor am I overly concerned when I hear that Bioware is going to add a LFG tool to this game. I'll be okay, regardless.

 

It only boggles my mind why some people continue to insist we defend such things as our likes or dislikes of a LFG tool. What difference does it make to you, for instance, if someone else doesn't like or want one? Why pose endless questions asking for explanations about someone's feelings about the thing and then insisting they're wrong to feel that way? Most especially in light of the fact the tool will be added to the game. If it's going to be added, just be happy (or not) about it and move the heck on...

[Darkulous]

If you honestly have played WoW, then you would know that during Cata one of the issues with LFG was that some griefers would either:-

 

Join with an AFK friend, who they would kick thus giving themselves immunity;

or

Build up an extensive kick time, I've seen them in excess of 3 hours before.

 

Stop making crap up. You can't join AFK. A kick time up to 3 hours? Have YOU honestly played WoW?

[Skidrowbro]

Which is what I said to start. MY experience with a LFG tool has been negative and MY experience in this game without a LFG tool has been positive. It's POSSIBLE for others to share MY experience but that doesn't mean anyone else will. Each of us will end up with different perspectives and experiences and will thus feel differently about such a thing as a LFG tool.

 

Therefore, asking anyone to "explain" their feelings, based on their experience and perspective, simply doesn't make sense. You're not going to change my mind, I don't like LFG tools, I think they have negative effects on a game, and I don't really want one. But I respect not everyone feels that way, and I'm perfectly fine with that. It doesn't offend me nor am I overly concerned when I hear that Bioware is going to add a LFG tool to this game. I'll be okay, regardless.

 

It only boggles my mind why some people continue to insist we defend such things as our likes or dislikes of a LFG tool. What difference does it make to you, for instance, if someone else doesn't like or want one? Why pose endless questions asking for explanations about someone's feelings about the thing and then insisting they're wrong to feel that way? Most especially in light of the fact the tool will be added to the game. If it's going to be added, just be happy (or not) about it and move the heck on...

 

Take a bow and exit stage left sir

[Darkulous]

The problem with kicking someone, especially if it is the person who queued as the tank or healer, is you are then stuck in queue again waiting for another member. If you have already killed a boss (and the kick timer is often set so you do have enough time to do so) then you are likely to get someone who immediately drops because they want to start the dungeon fresh either because the boss you killed has an item they want or they need the entire dungeon for a quest.

 

Waiting in que for another replacement is 2 hours better than going back to fleet looking for a replacement. It's so bad that when a player does leave a FP now, the group basically gives up. It's a death sentance if a player leaves the group in a FP. Also, people don't leave because they joined mid-way through. That's one reason Blizz rewards JPs and VPs for completing Dungeons. People actually like joining on the last Boss because of this. Instead of spending 30-45 minutes for their 70 VPs they get it in 5 minutes.

[Skidrowbro]

Waiting in que for another replacement is 2 hours better than going back to fleet looking for a replacement. It's so bad that when a player does leave a FP now, the group basically gives up. It's a death sentance if a player leaves the group in a FP. Also, people don't leave because they joined mid-way through. That's one reason Blizz rewards JPs and VPs for completing Dungeons. People actually like joining on the last Boss because of this. Instead of spending 30-45 minutes for their 70 VPs they get it in 5 minutes.

 

Why?? Why are you doing it from the fleet?? You know you can hit the planets too right? Fail

[Xpread]

LFG is needed and Xserver would be even better, and that is.

We need to talk with ppl and get immersed in the SWTOR world but u cant do that when u get *********** angry waiting 2hours to get a tank and if u get it and he leaves in mid of instance...meh.

[Skidrowbro]

LFG is needed.

Already have it

and Xserver would be even better, and that is.

Learn to use your keyboard again

We need to talk with ppl and get immersed in the SWTOR world but u cant do that when u get *********** angry waiting 2hours to get a tank and if u get it and he leaves in mid of instance...meh.

 

Choice is to re-roll and start on a more populated server. Transfers are coming

[Blazenor]

@ OP

 

The hate is not directed at the LFG tool but the cross-server version of it. A good LFG tool is needed for this MMO and it's was a huge oversight to launch this game without one in place.

 

I'm not sure if this is anyone experience, but for me I have only been in only two flashpoints when I leveled my Trooper to level 50. The reason for this is because I have a limited time and sitting on a spacestation spamming general chat was not a fun way of spenting that time.

 

I believe this game needs a LFG matchmaking system with some cross server connection within limits, within the following order:

 

1. Placing players together from within same server (Players given an option stay within the same)

2. Placing players together from other servers

[mothear]

Stop making crap up. You can't join AFK. A kick time up to 3 hours? Have YOU honestly played WoW?

 

If you think I'm making things up you obviously have never played WoW,

 

To suggest I was saying people joined a dungeon AFK then you are intentionally misreading what I said. What I said was that griefers would;

 

Join in a group;

One would go AFK immediately on joining and get kicked

The other one was then immune to being kicked.

 

Don't believe the kick time, look at the WoW forums. I haven't been there since January so they may have fixed it . Apparently not I just went over to the WoW forums and low and behold ;

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3888481429

 

So I return your statement 'Have you ever played WoW?

[Darkulous]

Why?? Why are you doing it from the fleet?? You know you can hit the planets too right? Fail

 

Oh yay! That sounds like fun!

 

Your use of Fail is a bit ironic.