Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[ekwalizer]

I'm good with an Group Finder. Actually two.. Home Server and X-Server.

 

If done, it would be best to make it a very robust system, where you could check the box for as many instances as you want to run (restricted by level). Then when enough folks sign up for a given instance you are prompted to go or not go, then transported to the area instance.

 

This way you could make every attempt to group within your community, but if that is taking too long you can go ahead and plunge into a X-Server group.

[Jaxarale]

No from my experience AND my opinion.

 

And from my experience AND my opinion you are completely off base in your opinion... lets agree to disagree.

 

(Other then the fact perhaps the main reason it has not been in place is fact enough?).

 

Or because they rushed an unfinished and unpolished game out to make money... that could be it too.

 

Maybe this is your opinion at play here as well?

 

Absolutely my opinion is in play here... as evidenced by me saying... "I think" and "In my opinion" unlike you who stated your opinion as fact...

 

I made no sensational claims btw

,

 

Other than a x-server lfg tool will: "adversely effect EVERY community on EVERY server..."

 

only that the FACT that server communities are affected adversely by cross server

.

 

Which in and of itself is a sensational claim because you have no proof, just your opinion...

 

To deny that this happens is naive.

 

To agree that this happens is naive... there IS no community and never was... edit: there was a small one pre-launch on the forums... but once they hit the go button and everyone proceeded to race to 50... "the community" element disappeared.

 

Oh I'm not trying to stop you from enjoying the game. I'm just objecting to the server communities and player accountability being compromised.

 

By advocating the posture of the death of the game through the death of the supposed "community" and lobbying for no lfg tool you are in effect trying to stop me because I want a lfg tool so I can actually do the heroics on each planet and do the FPs while leveling up.

 

 

No, they will face the possibility of being isolated and punished for their play practices by their fellow players of the servers they are on or if they change the one they land on.

 

You do understand that per BW themselves there is no such thing as ninja looting because I can need on an item because I need the money for it... so it kind of destroys your whole premise when you take that into account.

 

Yes...server community ostracizing does work...and works very well

.

 

I will again agree to disagree... I have not seen this work in any game I have played since EQ1... it used to work true... but then again the earth used to be flat... and we know its not anymore.

 

The likely hood of x server reporting being used is ZERO because of how it can be used to grief others reputations. Try to make your case to player x's server if you wish but, unless player x has a rep for doing the same there you are pissing in the wind.

 

I will not and have not believed a single thing I have heard about anyone on the internet unless I witness it for myself... I saw on the internet that OJ was not guilty too... doesn't make it true...

 

Actually...its not that cleaver but thank you for quoting me.

 

Ah come on... you can at least give me that!! That was damn funny of me!

 

 

The concept of community on servers is as old a as muds & mmo's, even back as far as chat rooms each one has their OWN community.

 

I will agree, the concept of a community is valid... unfortunately it is no longer a tangible thing... it is an illusion of yesteryear... as is the concept that woman stay virgins till they are married and all men are gentlemen... it just isn't how it is anymore and hanging on to a past that is gone just for the sake of wistful thinking... just isn't viable any longer.

Trust me, I wish it were as you say, I miss the days of Tempest Keep and being 1 of the 2 hunters taken by the "in crowd" to dungeons because I knew how to pull/trap and jump/spin/shot... its just not that way anymore.

 

Your "We are the world" concept is a community all in its own. The fact there is a COMMUNITY section in these forums confirms the community aspect.

 

Or they wanted it to be a community and they named the forums that... but it never materialized? Kind of like how they wanted class balance with PVE/PVP but cant seem to get that done?

 

The very fact BW themselves speak of community assures it. I feel my idea of server community is on VERY stout legs.

 

The fact tha BW says it... makes me shudder with fear, trepidation... and reach for my wallet to make sure I am not getting robbed again...

[MrPierce]

"It ruins the community" translate: It makes it so new people don't have to grovel to our little clubhouse-style enclave of internet nerds in order to participate in grouped content, and we don't like the fact that we lose the power to make them grovel to us.

 

Best solution IMO? Implement full cross server LFG with a personal blacklist. Don't like a player you're grouped with? Right click their portrait, and select add to personal blacklist. I don't think it should boot them or halt the current run, but next time you join the LFG it just wont consider matching possibilities where you end up in a group with that person. Granted, you will wait longer in queue the longer your personal blacklist gets, but you can begin to have some control over who you get stuck with.

 

By and large though I find people aren't excluded from groups on their server because they are stupid, ninjas, undergeared etc. I find people are excluded from groups because they aren't perceived as being "popular", they slighted someone who is perceived as being "popular", or the e-**** of the month who is manipulating all the nerdy little internet boys don't like the person. (As a nerdy internet boy I have been manipulated by various e-***** in my day, so please take no offense I'm not judging).

 

Anyways all I'm saying is the "ruins the community" excuse is pretty much horse manure. It's usually a thinly veiled excuse to bully people online.

[Sasheria]

People who are complaining about this are incredibly selfish and ignorant. Go ahead and have your harmonious community and do FP and ops together...no one is stopping you. But why take this away from the rest of us who play this game casually and don't want to get together at a schedule and raid at the same hours. There are a lot of people who need a cross server LFG tool and I don't believe all the doomsday talk that this will kill communities. You can still have your precious community with a LFG tool and this way people like me can actually enjoy group content as well.

 

PS: I guess BW can make an option in the LFG tool so it would look for people on your server only if they want but on half of the servers it's still going to take hours to find someone so cross server is a definitive must.

 

If you haven't try using cross server LFG tool before, I guess you were never ninja a loot that you are really looking forward to by the random person who can't even use it (more likely to Vend it for in-game currency)

 

the tool itself is great and wonderful to have, it is the people that makes the tool "undesirable"

 

That is the thing about the Internet. People can hide behind the Internet and be their "true self" without repercussion. So what if on a slow day that you keep forming a group for FP and get the SAME a-hole keep stealing your loot? do you want to wait and form later (and may still get the same person?) there is a good chance depending on how it is coded.

[Akella]

Is finding a group difficult on well populated servers like Harbinger or Fatman? Is it possible that the need for a LFG tool would be nil if there were server mergers for the rest of us on low pop servers and we could also enjoy grouping with our own server community? I just don't think this is an issue on the larger servers and could be fixed for everyone without a LFG tool, but I could be wrong.

[Gerandar]

they think it will ruin the already crappy community we have. because "LFG any HM/OP!" getting spammed in general on fleet is soooo helpful to the community.

[MrPierce]

Is finding a group difficult on well populated servers like Harbinger or Fatman? Is it possible that the need for a LFG tool would be nil if there were server mergers for the rest of us on low pop servers and we could also enjoy grouping with our own server community? I just don't think this is an issue on the larger servers and could be fixed for everyone without a LFG tool, but I could be wrong.

 

I rerolled for Fatman for the sole purpose of being able to find groups for PVE content easier. Heroic 2s and 4s you still have some problems finding groups, although usually only in the bonus quest areas where a lot of people skip the content because they're outlevelling it.

 

Flashpoints? As a tank or healer you should wait at MOST 15 minutes, if not get a group immediately. DPS is a little more random, sometimes you get a group right away, sometimes it takes a while.

 

What never happens? What never happens is what used to happen to me 99% of the time on Mandalore the Indomitable when I'd try and find a group -- I flat out don't get one, and logoff without playing the flashpoint or heroic quest through.

[Urael]

Question:

 

Why not have the LFG tool have a toggle to select:

 

< > Current Server.

 

< > Cross Server.

 

To search for people to group with.

 

This way those that don't mind Cross Server will be happy and those that don't want to Cross Server will be happy.

 

Personally I don't PUG but, it seems to have an option within the tool to search both types of Queues would be helpful to the debate. If this is feasable (BW will have to weigh in here) would this not be the answer to all the LFG Hate?

[Akella]

I rerolled for Fatman for the sole purpose of being able to find groups for PVE content easier. Heroic 2s and 4s you still have some problems finding groups, although usually only in the bonus quest areas where a lot of people skip the content because they're outlevelling it.

 

Flashpoints? As a tank or healer you should wait at MOST 15 minutes, if not get a group immediately. DPS is a little more random, sometimes you get a group right away, sometimes it takes a while.

 

What never happens? What never happens is what used to happen to me 99% of the time on Mandalore the Indomitable when I'd try and find a group -- I flat out don't get one, and logoff without playing the flashpoint or heroic quest through.

 

 

Personally I don't care about heroic quests or if I get a group for them but I understand others do. I just don't let a heroic quest stop me from moving through a zone. I can come back and solo it later. Waiting 15 minutes for a FP doesn't sound terrible tho. I would rather see fewer servers and see larger server populations before a LFG tool as I think it would do more for the server community and economy. If finding groups was still troublesome after server mergers then a LFG tool would be a nice addition. Just my 2 credits.

[Jaxarale]

Is finding a group difficult on well populated servers like Harbinger or Fatman?

 

I rerolled a sage healer on Faty just to take a peak at what a full server is like. 200+ on starter planet, general chat all over the place... very very few trolls, most of the people either ignore them instantly or no one responses to their idiocy when its spouted.

As I leveled I did every heroic on planet and every FP several times with never more than a 15 min wait... hell I got FP groups on planets and rarely had to go to fleet, because of the quest that takes you from the planet on the shuttle to do the FP... it was amazing... several of the planets had multiple instances... something I had not seen since the first week of release on Shien. (standard server)

 

When I did go on fleet even in the early mornings (8am EST) there was never less than 50 to 60 on and that number grew throughout the day to 100 by 2pm EST and 200+ in the evenings... every night, not just weekends.

 

All in all it was a entirely different experience and IMO how the game should be... it was fun, there is no other way to say it.

[MrPierce]

[quote=Jaxarale;4216932

All in all it was a entirely different experience and IMO how the game should be... it was fun, there is no other way to say it.

 

QFT. Rerolling Fatman saved this game for me.

[injury]

'It ruins the community' - really?

 

It does lessen the community of servers. Currently you know who to ignore when they spam for groups because they are terrible players, rude, ninjas, have purple hair or whatever doesn't tickle your fancy. You learn quick how good/bad things are going to be when you can see your group forming from people you know/seen/heard of. Cross server tools just makes everyone you group with a random spot filler you are likely to never see again, which encourages ******tery. "Fine don't use the tool" problem is the ******tery carries over and becomes the norm for everything but guild groups.

 

Imagine a common occurance where yahoo on your server needs loot from Boss 1 of Lost Island. Currently if you kill that boss and yahoo leaves the group, you at least can avoid yahoo till you feel he's not a selfish jackwagon any more. With a random tool you get a lovely cycle of people joining seeing you've already killed one boss and bailing since all they needed was on that one boss. Combined with the fun of knowing next time you form you may get yahoo again and unless you have multiple people already in your corner you might not have the votes to remove him. Even better queuing and getting yahoo as group leader to give you crap when you point out what a waste of 1's and 0's he is. Oh the best when there's a shortage of say tanks (insert whatever new role is short that month) so every tank that joins knows he's rare and you have a long wait if you manage to get him booted so he gets to play little Hitler no matter how stupid he is. Don't forget when there's a role shortage people run and respec to get super fast queues and have no gear or no idea how to play that role but lucky you get to try and prop him up, and all the little clones just like him until the next FOTM swap.

 

One of the big downfalls for a lot of us old WoW players was how Xrealm LFG turned out, outside of your guild you might as well get rid of the whole concept of servers since it's just a bunch of randoms running around. Warzones/BG's no big deal Xrealm trying to kill each other anyways and generally ******tery is a bit expected in pvp. LFD/LFFP loot is involved and people become selfish little bastards who all know their own best way and could give a darn about any other player since odds ore they won't see them again. You want to get a feel of how xrealm random forms turn out, hop on youtube and look up videos of ranting and raving people on Xbox Live just like that without voice.

 

If anything I think multi server looking for FP tools ought to have some drawback (besides the obvious) like no trash credits or something so it truly is a last resort instead of the norm.

[Skirata_Kal]

again, the vast majority will not listen to some guy over the general chat accusing someone of being a ninja looter, the accuser probably has a greater chance of being on someones ignore list then the accused at that point. The community accountability has not worked in practice since WoW, not for the majority of the people, just the few who thought their clique was the community. And yes, the biggest offenders of ninja looting, being jerks, ect were ones that knew they could get away with it because they were in bigger guilds, or in one of the top guilds.

 

Exactly! All of the negative behavior associated with x-server is already happening in this game and happened before x-server in WoW. I too have seen the reporters demonized and the d-bags almost become celebrities.

[Skirata_Kal]

The biggest thing that happens with cross server LFG is the content nerfs. And don't even say they won't happen. In WoW dungeon runs are what 10 mins long of aoe snorefest?

 

Back in the BC era, they made the Sunwell Plateau raid. Many man-hours of work that was...and only a tiny percentage of the population even attempted it, much less cleared it. The devs were like "All that work, and only that small number of people even tried it?" That's when they said they'd never make anything that difficult again. Now, as I recall, in the Wrath era, those 10 minute aoe-fests didn't become common until everyone had T9 and higher gear (and even then there was an occasional wipe if you got TOO careless lol). I'm of course ignoring the trolls who claimed to clear all content the first week in lvl 60 greens lol. And it seemed like all the trolls that QQ'd about Wrath being too easy, according to their armory, never had any heroic mode raid achievements (if you don't at least have more raid achieves than I had, you're not as leet as you think you are lol). In fact, some of them were saying Ulduar was too easy even before the world first Algalon occured (and that was long before x-server LFD by the way).

 

As for ToR, I'm quite satisfied with the current difficulty overall and personally don't see a need for nerfs. But to suggest that x-server alone will bring nerfs about? LMAO!

[turjake]

After reading some of this thread I still havent seen very good arguments against the LFG tool, wether it is cross server or not. Personally I think that not having a LFG is a bigger community breaker than LFG tool could ever be. People get bored of the game if they cannot find groups and leave -> less people to form that theoretical community. You already see what that means in the emptying servers when people move to bigger populated ones.

 

Mostly the fear of cross server LFG tools seems like some irrational internet meme. For example: hate of JarJar, (He is a fictional character in fictional film. What does it matter if he is poorly (sorry George) written comedic relief).

 

People keep repeating the hate of cross server LFG tool so often that they believe it without any real argument whatsoever. It destroys communities is the most used argument. Most of the time the community is destroyed by something else than LFG tool, like people getting bored of the game and moving on. Like server getting too empty. Like server being too laggy and some big hc guilds transfering. And so on. Things change. That is one of the few things that stay the same in this world.

 

I was in wow when they added the first version of their group finder. People didnt want any global chat channel because it would have spam. And to prove their(?) theory, when the tool went online some people started creating chars and spamming the channel with macros. And after one was banned/ignored they created next etc. After some hours/next day they apparently got most banned and the tool worked just fine without any excessive amounts of spam. So the problem, in my opinion wasnt the global channel, instead it was few idiots who wanted their moment of fame and a personal touch from a csr (in the form of banning).

 

Then they announced that the lfg tool will be cross server, and again the doomsayers were announcing that the community will be destroyed. Unfortunately I havent seen myself the results but wow still has loads of players and what I have seen the tool hasnt itself destroyed anything.

 

All these ninjalooting morons, rude idiots, lulz wipers and other kinds of self entertaining sociopaths were there long before any kind of global LFG channels or tools. Most people learned some ways to cope with them, ignores and stuff. Some people could rely on their big guilds to buffer against any risk of grouping with random people, others took their risk, and still managed most of the time.

 

What I have seen in other games, most people have learned to cope with LFG tool specific misbehaviours too.

[Gimixes]

And most of you x-server lovers didnt notice how the community act in Wow?

 

They are always in a hurry

Tank dont let healers get their mana back up

Dps pull mobs because tanks are to slow in there opinion

 

Dont mention the rude people

They curse a lot

They dont say anything at all while you wish everyone morning etc

 

Dont mention AFK people

"Cant kick them because of ...." name what ya like

 

What about you get kicked for no reason?

Not to name the ninja folks

And please dont try to defend this because everyone is entitled to everything.

 

And you want all this only for the possibility to push a button to get your group, ofc, faster. So you get your shiny purple pixels, ofc, faster.

What are you going to do when your body is full of the purple pixels?

Ofc, no FP/FP HM anymore because you dont need anything anymore.

You get bored and start to whine "I'm bored"

 

Sure get LFG x-server BW....everything must be faster, faster and more faster.

Hell, give us 400% speeders, what...give us fly mounts at 600%.

Let me roll lvl50 chars full of epics because i dont have time for anything.

I want to see nightmare OPs now because i dont have time to grow in a learning proces with gearing etc.

 

Pfff...spoiled folks

Wtb the period when we didnt have such luxury of LFG tools. You didnt hear anyone about it. And it was good fun to.

[Gradivus]

'It ruins the community' - really?

Yes. I played WoW when the automated LFG tool was introduced there and it ruined the community. I don't want the same to happen here. It's related to your last point - ninjaing. People generally start behaving like total dcks when they feel protected from any repercussions.

Gladly, Bioware have repeatedly stated that the will not introduce an automated cross server LFG tool. The feature implemented in 1.3 will be server limited and not fully automated. A good compromise, I think. Let's see how it turns out.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Gradivus

[RachelAnne]

Hoping someone can explain why the hate for the LFG tool that seems to abound on these forums, and if my thinking is so way off mark! Having played MMOs since Ultima Online, through SWG, WOW, RIFT, EQ, STO, LOTRO etc, I have seen various implementations of the above tool, and can honestly say, the tool improves MY gaming experience massively, just wondering why the hate, and how it has such a negative impact on others

 

My quality it ruined unfortunately.

 

'It ruins the community' - really? I fail to see how general chat spam of "LF2M Healer and Tank" over and over quantifies as community (and normally in caps)!! Those who argue you should make your own friends and guild mates, well then clearly you are very fortunate to have so many friends playing SWTOR at the same time who are wanting to instance at the same time that you wont need the LFG Tool, so again, I fail to see why the hate.

 

If you can theoretically get a group at every possible second, no matter how you behave then this does have a very big influence on younger players. Without consequences they troll, ninja, insult just for the laugh of it. There are tons of videos on YT, reports at off. forums where people were with such people in a LFG group and it shows clearly how the community is ruined there.

Another thing is, that you have no influence who you get. I often had the problem that people I randomly got, were totally different in their understanding of playing the game. For them going afk a min to open the door, answer a call or look after the child is not acceptable.

Now that there are also dps meters, those that dont care about high numbers will also have a hard time staying in groups. At wow people without imba items, high numbers were constantly kicked - I dont think that this is fun for anyone, after waiting 30-40 minutes.

 

'All that is needed is a Global General Chat' - this would be great, but again would just be filled with spam, and also all the idiotic chatter about chuck norris, or how someone did something to someone elses mom, and actually have very little impact on LFG due to your message being lost in nonsense, not to mention that you have to watch the chat closely incase you miss your option.

 

First you say nobody is talking, then again you are afraid to miss groups as so many are forming? Thats kinda silly

The truth is, people are afraid to talk to others and dont say "pick me" in most cases even tho they would like to go. That behaivor is natural but also created by the LFG tools in other games which made people totally lose they self confidence and ability to talk. In LFG groups you hardly have anyone saying a word...

 

'It ruins immersion' - normally from pvpers who like to gank people onroute to instance, or from people who want to see peeps travelling. Seems as all the instances are on the Fleets, then again, a LFG tool, even with insta telepor, would hardly ruin this?

 

At wow people stopped going out of the major towns from lvl 10 on and they did just queue for pvp and pve dungeons. Why put money into quest content, if nobody is doing them? The outside world has become dry, nobody is there - nobody to find for grouping, you dont feel like playing an MMO.

 

Vanilla and TBC you had people in the world, you could start a small open world battle with them, you could together fight world bosses or hard to master quest´s - all this is gone.

The MMO´s with such a tool are more less a ego shooter now.

 

'People can ninja with immunity' - probably the only valid argument i can see so far, but seems as most items are usable bny anyone and their companion, and people already role on items for their companions, it again looses weight.

 

The ninja issue is very frustrating, if you do a dungeon multiple times and finally your druid staff drops and a hunter rolls on it and wins, then you ask yourself ***. People in these LFG groups dont understand the basic MS>OS rules, they dont understand that items have a higher use for the other players etc.

As a tank I had very often the situation that non tank´s did ninja my tank gear, thats no fun and you lack the ability to gear up your char correctly like that, especially if you dont play 24/7.

 

As I see it the LFG tool means I dont have to spend Ages trying to find a group by sitting in Imperial fleet watching the drivel in general chat, I can play the game, with friends, whilst waiting for my group to assemble. Those who are violently opposed to this dont have to use it afterall, and can continue to spam, or play with their friends. The only valid reason I can think of is that maybe those who oppose it so much are such terrible players, they are afraid their 'friends' will abandon them if it is easier to get a group?!!!

 

I dont think that insulting others is a nice ending for a post, it shows just again that your LFG pro crowd has no valid arguments.

Last but not least I do wonder how people want a tool that lets them wait for 30 min+, that gives them a lower chance of finishing a dungeon but then complain about 5-10 minutes search on the own server. Thats not making any sense at all

Edited May 2, 2012 by RachelAnne

[je-s-ter]

And you want all this only for the possibility to push a button to get your group, ofc, faster. So you get your shiny purple pixels, ofc, faster.

What are you going to do when your body is full of the purple pixels?

Ofc, no FP/FP HM anymore because you dont need anything anymore.

You get bored and start to whine "I'm bored"

 

No, we want this because we don't find it fun to sit on the fleet for 3 hours spamming LFG comments just to log out with yet another day without any content done. Maybe you enjoy it, but I think I speak for the majority of people who experience this every day that it is not fun.

[Deamor]

How many servers in SWTOR at the moment have a really lively community, talking about random stuff on /1 ?

And I'm not talking about guild recruitment posts and LFG - messages.

 

I'm just genuinely interested in knowing how good communities we now have in SWTOR when we don't have a LFG - tool ruining it.

[Gradivus]

How many servers in SWTOR at the moment have a really lively community, talking about random stuff on /1 ?

And I'm not talking about guild recruitment posts and LFG - messages.

 

I'm just genuinely interested in knowing how good communities we now have in SWTOR when we don't have a LFG - tool ruining it.

 

Bioware have stated that they will consolidate servers.

[RachelAnne]

Maybe I can help explain the whole problem. The problem is not with the LFG tool itself, but how many companies decide to implement it.

 

Most often than not, when a LFG / LFD tool is implemented, it is done as an "auto-group" feature and then they add cross-server. You say you want a LFG / LFD, but did you know that with /who, you already have that funtionality in SWTOR if people use it? You can even add comments about what you are looking to group for. So the tool is "technically" already in the game. The thing is, I have heard over and over again "i don't want to talk to anybody to do <xyz-activity>......"

 

Example: During the recent Rhakghoul event, people were complaining about the vaccine and it costing 2k credits. At the same time, those who were into the event were saying "If you ASK me for some vaccines, I will give you some cause I don't use them as i am doing the dailies. Just ASK me for one." But when you get responses like "I don't want to ask you for one cause I shouldn't have to" it gives you a sinking feeling in the stomache.

 

In an MMO, there's needs to be some sort of communication. I have been in so many parties in other MMO's where not a word is spoken. The group is formed, and for 5 hours, no one says a word. Then the group just disbands and you're sitting there wondering "Did that just happen.... Not even a word...???"

 

As much as people hate on it, I played FFXI from beta til about ~2 years ago and it fostered a true server community. People complained about the forced grouping, but you got to know everyone on your server. You knew what classes they had, their levels, their alts, and even a little about them personally. You knew how they played, and what their strengths were. But sitting there for hours in a group, you talked; even if it was just about something totally stupid - you talked to each other. You got to know the people on your server who were just lazy, those trying to better themselves, and those who were just so they could talk to their children / grandchildren (yes grandma and grandpa play) cause they live 3000 miles away. That started going downhill quickly when auto-grouping was added.

 

 

I have seen, even in SWTOR, people who just refuse to change their gaming-style to make themselves a better player. "Hey smuggler, how come you don't drop into cover?" "Cause it doesn't really add a whiole lot of benefit for me." "Hey, how come you never have your 60 min. ability up" "Cuase it sucks" We understand about playing how you want to play, but there are some basics that should be inherent to everyone and they are not. And when people choose to refuse to adapt, it causes a problem for me if I'm in your PUG. So many people don't know the basics of their own class - and don't want to know.

 

As was stated before, in a server only situation, it can be policed by the server as a whole. A player refuses to change for the better, we can refuse to group with them - SERVER WIDE. So as a community, we can help to hopefully make it better. Someone is always spamming general chat with "I @$@ your mom and chuck norris and ...." they can be refused parties. That means no operations, no flashpoints, no joining a Guild, etc.. They change or they are excluded...

 

Now with cross-server, it can no longer be policed and these people can continue to do w/e they want without any reprocussions. How does someone on server 50 know how someone on server 2 is? How does someone on server 6 know that the PUG they just got has people from 2 other servers that just sit at the Flashpoint entrance and do nothing to contribute? I get plenty of blind invites, is it that hard to /whisper me "Want to join me?"

 

I have met many people from MMO's; many whom I've even met IRL. I found out that 2 people in one of the Guilds I was in, lived literally 1 mile down the street. We had been seeing each other at the store for years not knowing it. MMO's have a unique them about them. I don't know the color of your skin, the language you speak, the country you are from, where you live, what job you do, etc... Yet we can come together for a common goal and get along without issue. And on top of that, we can police the community of our server in a, normally, civil manner.

 

We talk to each other, we can help each other out. There are many stories of people helping out people IRL not ever meeting them but only what they know from the game. That's the community people don't want to get rid of. And unless you've ever been part of a community like that, you just will never understand.

 

Thats a very polite and good post!

[turjake]

Just few points.

 

- Plenty of people in this thread seem to have the: "I know what you should do better than you yourself do" illness. Plenty of politicians and civil servants have that same problem, that is why all the bureaucracy can only get more complex because they try to fix things that cannot be fixed with more rules that wont work. Problem is that they believe that they are right so no amount of explaining or even actual statistics can change their mind.

 

- So far I have not seen any functionality in LFG tools that prevents people from discussing with each other.

- People were rude/ninja/whatever long before LFG tools were anywhere

- When you talk about community policing something you mean actually some kind of school bullying system where you take some person and with reason or sometimes without reason destroy their reputation in your little community.

- If you want to avoid risk of any public grouping and its risks, join a big guild. That is what plenty of people do already. As a bonus you get a community where you can socialise

- In a guild you can still use the LFG tool if you wish or are feeling brave

 

I dont like auto LFG tools either. In my opinion it should be as flexible as possible.

[Timesjoke]

And most of you x-server lovers didnt notice how the community act in Wow?

 

Nothing you have mentioned in actions is any different than the earliest days in WoW. I have played from Vanilla and there was just as bad, if not worse behaviors from the big guilds because they ran each server like an iron fisted king. Even a pug usually had alts or mains that missed their guild run in them running it and if you ever pissed them off or complained because they took an item unfairly they would simply get all their buddies in their guild to spam attacks on you amd make you out to be the bad guy so if you ever wanted to raid on your server and were not part of one of the elitist guilds, you were almost constantly abused by those same elitists.

 

 

 

 

 

And you want all this only for the possibility to push a button to get your group, ofc, faster. So you get your shiny purple pixels, ofc, faster.

 

And as usual you Elitists simply refuse to understand the point, you want to preserve "your idea of MMO purity" so badly you blind yourself from the truth.

 

We don't want our purple pixels faster, we want the ability to see the content that we can't see any other way because of things not under our control.

 

Without a LFG tool that actually works, over 80% of the population will never get a chance to see the endgame content. Right now it is mostly because the servers are empty, I even see the fatman showing light some days and it is considered the big dog for population.

 

The other reason a LFG tool is needed is because without it the servers are under the control of the elitists. I don't want some kid or out of work bum sitting at home playing this game for 18 hours a day getting his rocks off by screwing with other people. The Elitists like to act insulted if a non-Elitist can get the same access to gear they can, they do everything they can to restrict and limit other people from being allowed to get "their gear".

[Valkirus]

Nothing you have mentioned in actions is any different than the earliest days in WoW. I have played from Vanilla and there was just as bad, if not worse behaviors from the big guilds because they ran each server like an iron fisted king. Even a pug usually had alts or mains that missed their guild run in them running it and if you ever pissed them off or complained because they took an item unfairly they would simply get all their buddies in their guild to spam attacks on you amd make you out to be the bad guy so if you ever wanted to raid on your server and were not part of one of the elitist guilds, you were almost constantly abused by those same elitists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And as usual you Elitists simply refuse to understand the point, you want to preserve "your idea of MMO purity" so badly you blind yourself from the truth.

 

We don't want our purple pixels faster, we want the ability to see the content that we can't see any other way because of things not under our control.

 

Without a LFG tool that actually works, over 80% of the population will never get a chance to see the endgame content. Right now it is mostly because the servers are empty, I even see the fatman showing light some days and it is considered the big dog for population.

 

The other reason a LFG tool is needed is because without it the servers are under the control of the elitists. I don't want some kid or out of work bum sitting at home playing this game for 18 hours a day getting his rocks off by screwing with other people. The Elitists like to act insulted if a non-Elitist can get the same access to gear they can, they do everything they can to restrict and limit other people from being allowed to get "their gear".

 

This is a very true post. Blizzard came out with the cross server LFG tool because the same server one was not working as intended. And they came out with a cross server Looking for Raid tool when they saw from thier own internal data a very small percentage of thier player base was experencing the end game content. And no matter what some haters of the LFG system for WoW think, it has been very successful in doing what it was meant to do.

 

Blizzard did get a lot of complaints about adding cross server LFG and esp LFR. But they were smart enough to pay more attention to thier own internal data rather than some complaints from mostly raiders who I suspect were not happy some casuals could also down Deathwing. They failed to mention they still had Dragon Soul raids for normal and heroic to keep thier "elitist" titles. MMO champ had a post a few months ago showing how many had downed the end game content in WoW and it was some silly low numbers and how that number shot up dramatically after the Looking for Raid was introduced. This was a good sign for Blizzard, because they know the majority of thier player base are not hard core raiders, but rather casuals.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Valkirus