Optimising Your PvP Gear

[EbonFade]

It's wrong- UNLESS you are totally stacking tank. Why?

 

You can, in theory, optimize a toon a lot of different ways, but the key is to optimize it to your class/playstyle. Stacking the hell out of expertise on a healing Operative means either your heals won't off as fast, or won't 'pop' with enough power to offset the massive burst damage of some toons.

 

I'm to trying to say this: it's not always all about expertise stacked to the moon.

 

See here: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-Stat-DR-Graphs

 

Expertise scales better across the board than any other statistic. It improves your damage output more than power or your primary stat does, it improves your healing more than your primary stat or tech bonus does (point for point), and it improves mitigation more than defense/absorb. Its unclear when it actually turns around, but certainly well past 1300.

 

In practise, with warhero gear, you hit DR with every other major statistic long before (surge + crit hit massive DR) with the exception of power. But power never competes with expertise, at any level, hence it is always best to have as much expertise as you can find.

[Omnistarr]

Yea Id like some links as well cause I cant find them and I have looked.

 

"Rest assured, though, real math is at the foundation of the article. Whether one is capable of comprehending the implication of it through written word is, however, a different matter entirely."

- Yes you are right we are too stupid to understand.

 

Not at all what I was saying. I can see how you could read that into it, though. Sorry about that. I mean to say that I didn't account for peoples' different quantitative methods. Some can glean the mathematics at work simply by reading the written word. Others have to see the calculations. It's certainly not a bad thing, just something that I didn't anticipate. I've got a few things to do yet this morning, but I'll get to all your posts as soon as I can. Thanks for all the wonderful feedback.

[Hotbox]

See here: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-Stat-DR-Graphs

 

Expertise scales better across the board than any other statistic. It improves your damage output more than power or your primary stat does, it improves your healing more than your primary stat or tech bonus does (point for point), and it improves mitigation more than defense/absorb. Its unclear when it actually turns around, but certainly well past 1300.

 

In practise, with warhero gear, you hit DR with every other major statistic long before (surge + crit hit massive DR) with the exception of power. But power never competes with expertise, at any level, hence it is always best to have as much expertise as you can find.

 

The problem is you can't increase expertise without nerfing your other stats more substantially. It's not a 'one for one' basis. You might pick up 5% more damage by putting in another few hundred points of expertise; but you'll mitigate that by pulling mods that might lower your damage an equal amount.

 

Of course, what matters is the mix and match on mods. Anything is possible given enough combinations.

[Omnistarr]

Alright, I'm going to have to put a stop to this. Hotbox, I hate to say this to people, but you're absolutely incorrect on this and I would appreciate it if you would stop propagating false information in this thread. To that end, I am going to show you the light, as it were.

 

The mods and enhancements in all end-game PvP and PvE gear are identical (check for yourself if you like) with the exception of the PvP bits having expertise added; they do not sacrifice anything in the way of stats for expertise. This was clearly an intentional change by BioWare to stop the blending of PvE and PvP gear. The armorings are, indeed, different. Rakata armorings, for example, have either +44 Endurance and +61 MainStat or +55 Endurance and +51 Mainstat whereas Battlemaster armorings have +31 Endurance, +33 MainStat, and +50 Expertise. Meaning that, the only "improvement" that you could make would be a small amount of Endurance and MainStat, sacrificing 50 Expertise each time. And, guess what? If you swapped all of your armorings, you'd lose 250 Expertise and have very little to show for it. So, no. Sacrificing expertise for more damage/healing does not work anymore and claiming the contrary is absolutely false.

 

Now that you know the truth, please stop spreading misinformation. Thank you.

 

 

The problem is you can't increase expertise without nerfing your other stats more substantially. It's not a 'one for one' basis. You might pick up 5% more damage by putting in another few hundred points of expertise; but you'll mitigate that by pulling mods that might lower your damage an equal amount.

 

Of course, what matters is the mix and match on mods. Anything is possible given enough combinations.

[exphryl]

See here: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-Stat-DR-Graphs

 

Expertise scales better across the board than any other statistic. It improves your damage output more than power or your primary stat does, it improves your healing more than your primary stat or tech bonus does (point for point), and it improves mitigation more than defense/absorb. Its unclear when it actually turns around, but certainly well past 1300.

 

In practise, with warhero gear, you hit DR with every other major statistic long before (surge + crit hit massive DR) with the exception of power. But power never competes with expertise, at any level, hence it is always best to have as much expertise as you can find.

 

Those four graphs do not mention power at all.......

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[Omnistarr]

That's because power from the stat and MainStat are both linear, and therefore shouldn't need a graph.

 

Those four graphs do not mention power at all.......

[AngryBuddhist]

You goddam min/maxer's give everybody a *********** headache.

[Omnistarr]

It's not min/max, it's optimisation. Balance, if you will. Please read the whole thread and article before posting more feedback. Thanks!

 

You goddam min/maxer's give everybody a *********** headache.

[exphryl]

It's not min/max, it's optimisation. Balance, if you will. Please read the whole thread and article before posting more feedback. Thanks!

 

That is what Min/Maxing is.....

[Hotbox]

Alright, I'm going to have to put a stop to this. Hotbox, I hate to say this to people, but you're absolutely incorrect on this and I would appreciate it if you would stop propagating false information in this thread. To that end, I am going to show you the light, as it were.

 

The mods and enhancements in all end-game PvP and PvE gear are identical (check for yourself if you like) with the exception of the PvP bits having expertise added; they do not sacrifice anything in the way of stats for expertise. This was clearly an intentional change by BioWare to stop the blending of PvE and PvP gear. The armorings are, indeed, different. Rakata armorings, for example, have either +44 Endurance and +61 MainStat or +55 Endurance and +51 Mainstat whereas Battlemaster armorings have +31 Endurance, +33 MainStat, and +50 Expertise. Meaning that, the only "improvement" that you could make would be a small amount of Endurance and MainStat, sacrificing 50 Expertise each time. And, guess what? If you swapped all of your armorings, you'd lose 250 Expertise and have very little to show for it. So, no. Sacrificing expertise for more damage/healing does not work anymore and claiming the contrary is absolutely false.

 

Now that you know the truth, please stop spreading misinformation. Thank you.

 

Sure they do-- lots of mods have accuracy on them, instead of power or crit.

 

What are you the PVP forum police?

[Omnistarr]

But you don't have to lose Expertise to get them and you certainly aren't "gimping" yourself by stacking Expertise. In fact, you're only "gimping" yourself if you start ditching Expertise. My comments aren't directed toward your assertion that ditching accuracy/alacrity for other things is a good idea. They're directed toward your assertion that one can somehow benefit from getting rid of Expertise for other stats. The problem there is, there isn't anything there to replace your Expertise.

 

And no, I'm not the PvP forum Police. I doubt there is such a thing, in fact. But, this thread is for people with questions and comments relative to the article in the main post. Not for people to spout unresearched rubbish and pass it off as fact. So, I ask you again, please stop. There is no mathematical data to substantiate your claim. I'm not saying that it's wrong (that's subjective), I'm saying that it's mathematically unsubstantiated and therefore incorrect.

 

Sure they do-- lots of mods have accuracy on them, instead of power or crit.

 

What are you the PVP forum police?

Edited May 2, 2012 by Omnistarr

[LancelotOC]

Hey Guys,

 

I have a new feature up at mmo-mechanics.com on how to optimise your PvP gear using the mods available in the gear for your class and the enhancements from any other class' gear. Head over and check it out. Let me know what you think, and, as always, questions and comments are welcome. Enjoy!

 

--Starr

 

WOW Omnistar I've always dreamed of making a calculator like this.. I am the new member of your fan club.

 

Oh I also wanted to add that your caveats dont apply to pvp casted healing. You should probobly clarify that on your website least you perpetuate healers into being fodder. A heal that heals for 10 more means nothing if you are dead.

Edited May 2, 2012 by LancelotOC

[Hotbox]

But you don't have to lose Expertise to get them and you certainly aren't "gimping" yourself by stacking Expertise. In fact, you're only "gimping" yourself if you start ditching Expertise. My comments aren't directed toward your assertion that ditching accuracy/alacrity for other things is a good idea. They're directed toward your assertion that one can somehow benefit from getting rid of Expertise for other stats. The problem there is, there isn't anything there to replace your Expertise.

 

And no, I'm not the PvP forum Police. I doubt there is such a thing, in fact. But, this thread is for people with questions and comments relative to the article in the main post. Not for people to spout unresearched rubbish and pass it off as fact. So, I ask you again, please stop. There is no mathematical data to substantiate your claim. I'm not saying that it's wrong (that's subjective), I'm saying that it's mathematically unsubstantiated and therefore incorrect.

 

I never said that.

 

I said that at a certain point you have to start sacrificing other stats to gain past a certain point on expertise due to the nature of expertise mods being tied into mods that carry things like accuracy and alacrity and thus you are better off putting your mods with other stats.

[Xerain]

The stats themselves aren't homogeneous. What I meant by that is that, regardless of class or role, the stat priorities are pretty much the same. Meaning that any PvP player should (generally) be trying for ≈300 Surge, ≈450 Crit, then stack power whilst trying to keep as much Endurance and Main Stat as possible

 

I keep trying to tell people almost this exact samething! Surge > Crit > power. Burst damage wins you pvp matches not sustained.

[madtycoon]

Thank you for making this.

[Mrip]

I play a pyro merc and have full BM, and am about to pick up the WH mainhand blaster. Is it a net increase for me to pull my crit color crystals and put in the expertise ones? Edited May 2, 2012 by Mrip

[Skeee]

Hey Guys,

 

I have a new feature up at mmo-mechanics.com on how to optimise your PvP gear using the mods available in the gear for your class and the enhancements from any other class' gear. Head over and check it out. Let me know what you think, and, as always, questions and comments are welcome. Enjoy!

 

--Starr

 

Thank you for taking the time to study this. I also found the follow-up responses refreshing and sometimes entertaining.

[Skeee]

Hey Guys,

 

I have a new feature up at mmo-mechanics.com on how to optimise your PvP gear using the mods available in the gear for your class and the enhancements from any other class' gear. Head over and check it out. Let me know what you think, and, as always, questions and comments are welcome. Enjoy!

 

--Starr

 

Thank you for taking the time to study this. I also found the follow-up responses refreshing and sometimes entertaining.

[Ahhmyface]

I expected more math, and less advice. Maybe a calculator or something.

 

I disagree with various points you made, namely about endurance, the exclusion of accuracy, and the priority of 450 crit over power.

 

The break point is in the 200 to 300 range..

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/01/when-is-too-much-surge-bad-for-digestion/

 

The break point for crit is much higher.. I would say the 800-1000 range, but is hard to get to without a ton of useless stats.

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/03/calculating-critical-hit-chance/

 

 

Overall POWER is the end all, be all for my class(DPS/HEAL) because we have a crit talent, and the damage scale is linear. So for a DPS, stack power, then surge(to a 300 range due to cap), and get trinks/ use talents to improve crit percentage(as max chance is around 40%, which is not much different from 20%-30% due to cap and talents), then defensive.

 

There is no breakpoint. Despite the crap forum nerds endlessly spew, it is a smooth curve.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Xerain]

Your guide shouldn't be for only BM gear but it should be for pvp in general for the numbers you want to hit.

[L-RANDLE]

I expected more math, and less advice. Maybe a calculator or something.

 

I disagree with various points you made, namely about endurance, the exclusion of accuracy, and the priority of 450 crit over power.

 

 

 

There is no breakpoint. Despite the crap forum nerds endlessly spew, it is a smooth curve.

 

Surge has a "smooth" curve too.. Here is some math... look up exponential decay. Once you get to a certain point, it is not a big change worthy of sacrificing main/end or decent secondary, especially considering the break point for mitigation and healing have a lower upper limit than the damage. Power is a linear increase, there is no decay(y-axis), as you increase the quantity(x-axis). This is why power trumps surge and crit at certain points. PvP is about burst, but you need a power base to have effective burst.

[Jalez]

Doesn't the more Accuracy you have mean your chance of a dps action/spell getting resisted and/or you have a better chance of bypassing an enemies resistance to damage, thus making your spells hit harder.

 

If Accuracy does this, and Im just reading the in game "tool-tip" here, then it would be a Valuable stat to any class that does damage, period.

 

We really need a BW Dev to clarify this. I cant see them putting absolutely useless stats in the game, so Accuracy does something, and if Im correct, it should be in pvp suits.

[Mrip]

Doesn't the more Accuracy you have mean your chance of a dps action/spell getting resisted and/or you have a better chance of bypassing an enemies resistance to damage, thus making your spells hit harder.

 

If Accuracy does this, and Im just reading the in game "tool-tip" here, then it would be a Valuable stat to any class that does damage, period.

 

We really need a BW Dev to clarify this. I cant see them putting absolutely useless stats in the game, so Accuracy does something, and if Im correct, it should be in pvp suits.

 

The thing is, every class' special attacks (pretty much everything) has a base accuracy of 100%. Players have a base of 5% defense. So you only need 105% accuracy for all of your attacks to hit a player with no talents/gear. However, some classes can spec into increased defense and tank gear comes with +def. So you need more accuracy to counteract that extra defense.

 

The issue is that putting a stat, which is only useful when fighting tanks, on every piece of gear is absurd.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Mrip

[LancelotOC]

It's no more absurd than people all speccing for burst as if no one would spec for defence. Defence is more than reverse burst. You dodge the full damage of an attack which with todays' burst designs is quite a bit at times.

[whatthefett]

Well I followed your advice first hand and stacked some surge getting closer to your recommended cap. It made a world of difference. I wasn't sure but the proof is in the pudding! Cap for surge all the way! Thanks.

 

Annihilation Marauder.

Edited May 6, 2012 by whatthefett