Really so bad?!?!

[Delidumrul]

there are many posts in the forum about commandos after patch1.2, and I am really demoralized. I was playing Empire (juggernaut, assassin, mercenary), but then decided to reroll Republic in a better server. Rolled a sentinel first then decided to go for a "speak softly carry a big gun" style and rolled commando. So far (lvl24) I have no concerns for questing and either for pvp. But is it too early to speak? Will I really be unsatisfied with the class at 50? I am not an uber player on the other hand playing mmos for a long time and able to see what's going on. But still don't have much lvl50 end-game experience in Swtor, raided a bit with dps merc that's all, rest was only pvping and daily questing etc.

Whatever, as said above I really felt very bad today after reading all the negative posts. Untill now I was comfortable and happy with a dps commando. Also rolled a vanguard but do not like to play a ranged/melee hybrid.

By the way I'm not after an OP class to play, just would like to hear from experienced lvl50's that is it really so bad and broken? Or is it just not as easy to play as it was before 1.2?

 

Thanks in advance...

[Syricide]

PvP –

The Combat Medic has a place in an 8-man WarZone team but is not the first choice to be primary healer. The role of the Combat Medic is to heal the tanks that are guarding the real healers as well as cross heal the real healers. This frees up the real heals for keeping up true DPS. It’s a function of the class. CM’s are much more survivable than the sage & sawbones and that trade off is they squishier healers have a higher throughput.

 

Gunnery is not a PvP class as it has too many channeled / casting timed abilities that can be interrupted / locked down but more so they do not get an ability to prevent it. Marauders will own you every time.

 

Assault – is ok but the Vanguard Assault will always out DPS you and out survive you making it a more viable option for a WZ team.

 

TL:DR – Commando’s no longer are on the A-team for WZs; Combat Medic will have a spot on the B-team, Gunnery/Assualt on the losing team.

 

If you are PvEing - Gunnery spec is exceptionally well and the Combat Medic can heal through most HM-FPs; will be secondary healer on an Operation.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Syricide

[stendarrs]

I don't think it's THAT bad currently in open PvP (lvl 50). The big question to me is what happens when rated warzones kick off. The problem (on my server at least) is that there are so many marauders running around that it can be tough to deal with. If you get focused by the mara squad you pretty much have to take one for the team and just try to pull them away from the objective and live as long as possible while doing whatever damage that you can. This doesn't happen every match, but I think it's probably what most people remember as they are posting here. My commando is still putting out quality damage and helping the team in most matches. The other problem (again, on my server) is that there are just too many commandos. For a while I was going in to WZ's with 3 or 4 dps commandos and that's pretty much a recipe for disaster. I have re-rolled but still play my commando because I think/hope that things will get reworked or rebalanced for commandos. But, the answer to the big question is that I don't think people will want a commando on their ranked WZ team if there is another dps class available. It's unfortunate, but that's the state of things atm.

[Delidumrul]

Thanks for the answers looks like even tho i keep playing the commando I'll be left aside. I'll lvl up the vanguard and see if things will change. Definitly would not like to fight with a torch:) so it will be a trooper I play, hope I'll get the same fun from vanguard dps...

[Syricide]

I don't think it's THAT bad currently in open PvP (lvl 50).

 

It's not that it's that bad; it's that there are better statistical alternative classes to grouped combat.

 

All said and done - It doesn't stop me from playing & contributing with my Commando. I've hit valor 80 with my Commando and have played each spec tree extensively in PvP and have settled into the CM (post 1.2). This is more of a reflection of my guild and we can compensate for the classes abilities. We have invested too much time getting him geared to drop him.

 

But if i was running in pick-up groups or queuing solo; I wouldn't be playing a Commando in PvP.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Syricide

[Jinkblade]

Combat medic does not have a place in PvP, simple as that. Then again healers can only hurt their teams post 1.2. As a DPS you do far more counter healing (damage) than healers can heal.

Go gunnery until you get bored of spamming grav round 24/7 then go reroll because this game is ****ed

[Epyionn]

Combat medic does not have a place in PvP, simple as that. Then again healers can only hurt their teams post 1.2. As a DPS you do far more counter healing (damage) than healers can heal.

Go gunnery until you get bored of spamming grav round 24/7 then go reroll because this game is ****ed

 

Good healers can still turn the table in pvp. A group with even one good healer will outlast a team of all tanks and dps since that healer will contribute enough to keep his/her dps alive and well. In the long run, those heals will go a long way to allowing the healers team to complete objectives while the dps' team will constantly be in a state of travel due to obscene amounts of death.

 

So, healers do have a spot in warzones, and will continue to have a spot in warzones.

 

And don't jump on the bandwagon of the "commando/mercenary" sucks now. In my experience (47 commando), our effectiveness in both pvp and pve has not changed. The pre-1.2 commandos/mercenaries need to adjust and quit beating a dead horse.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Epyionn

[Kajkuron]

With most threads like this, I give a simple answer; play the style you like. If it falls into a character that is NOT a FOTM, then it will be a FOTM eventually. All mmo's go through cycles of balancing. Pre-1.2 CM's were OP in warzones. Post-1.2, all healers have a hard time especially ones with cast-times.

 

Really don't worry about it so much. Have fun leveling and 1-49 PvP (which is much more balanced than 50, atm.)

 

Wouldn't trade my CM in for anything.

[Arzoo]

Good healers contribute less than good dps. It's as simple as dps output per character being far, far greater than hps output. You help your team more by removing other players from the fight than by futilely healing.

[AmorphousCro]

The issue now with commando is that anything you can do as the class, another class can do much better. If you're a healer Combat Medic will never outshine a Sage even though you'll work twice as hard. Gunnery has been toned down and some skill are currently broken, so for pure ranged DPS a Gunslinger is much more effective, In PvP, Assault is a really good tree but it was designed for Vanguard/Powertech and they have the utility to make it work.

 

There are known issues with Gunnery spec currently and most of the complaints are coming from people who were top tier DPS in operations groups who have been pushed to the bottom. In PvP the lack of mobility was tenable with overwhelming firepower. Combat Medic needs to be reevaluated.

[RichardNoggin]

Dont get discouraged about Commando Heals its ok. I either lead the WZ or am close to every game and Im not even full BM or above yet. Yes Commando needed to be nerfed before. I could basically heal through 4 guys beating on me and never run out of ammo before patch 1.2.

 

The only class that gives me trouble is sentinel/marauders but they are OP atm and are giving everyone trouble. Thats why you see alot of WZ's filled with them. The people that say we have no survivability just dont know how to play the class post 1.2 and want bioware to go back to the OP version of medic wich I wouldnt mind but it was obvious we were OP and anyone that says otherwise needs to L2P the class. Usually I dont say that but in this case its true.

[Tiber_Septim]

Many people here obviously aren't playing with a good pre-made or against one. A couple of good healers will ensure one side destroys the other. No healing means you'll get steamrolled whatever damage you do. The sole requirement to deal damage is staying alive in the first place.

 

Gunnery CAN and WILL work in group PvP, never solo. It may be the worst solo class in the game. With a group, tanks in front of you and healers behind, you'll wreak havoc. Sure sentinels and some others may outperform you, but you can contribute to focus fire immensely. Personally I rarely get outdamaged by any other class if my team is staying alive so that I'm ignored by enemy melee.

 

No melee that stays long alive on your side: You'll get rolled.

No healers to keep the melee alive: You'll get rolled.

Decent healers and tanking: You'll drop whatever's being focused upon unless your team's outplayed.

 

Stick to your team. Better, form a team and play with them. Avoid all 1vs1 situations vs melee and powertechs. It never gets more fun than scoring top damage and killing blows in a warzone after somebody denounces my gunnery build.

[sensiblepoast]

Gunnery CAN and WILL work in group PvP, never solo. It may be the worst solo class in the game. With a group, tanks in front of you and healers behind, you'll wreak havoc.

 

A gunslinger will easily outdps you, with the added benefit that they cannot be interrupted or jumped on.

 

Everybody is free to play a gunnery commando but things are what they are. We suck.

[Pavixx]

A gunslinger will easily outdps you, with the added benefit that they cannot be interrupted or jumped on.

 

Everybody is free to play a gunnery commando but things are what they are. We suck.

And when that sage healer is getting stunlocked into the ground, the gunslinger can stop dpsing for a second and hea..... oh wait.

 

Utility and flexibility has a cost. Just as a DPS spec'd tank is still expected to make use of taunts and shields, so is a commando expected to make use of his heals when the situation calls for it.

Its my opinion that if you wanted pure dps class level dps output, you should have rolled a pure dps class.

[Moryu]

And when that sage healer is getting stunlocked into the ground, the gunslinger can stop dpsing for a second and hea..... oh wait.

 

Utility and flexibility has a cost. Just as a DPS spec'd tank is still expected to make use of taunts and shields, so is a commando expected to make use of his heals when the situation calls for it.

Its my opinion that if you wanted pure dps class level dps output, you should have rolled a pure dps class.

 

Although I do agree with you that we could heal when it's called for (and personally i will heal someone if I think I can save them), but our heals are slow and tbh the dmg input (even from one dpser let alone 2 or more) is normally quite larger than the heal output from a dps commando. The thing is as it stands now, melee who have taken the tank AC line even if dps specced have most of there tank abilities available and have no trouble using them. Try healing as a dps specced commando when you have someone on you, it's nigh on impossible and a complete waste of time.

 

Edit: If you can get breathing room on a someone that is on you (eg; cryo grenade stun and then los them) you can get a heal off, but then it's a quandry of wether your time would have been better spent dpsing them or get one or 2 heals off. We have the utility of healing, but tbh I'd rather have the utility of PT/Vanguard.

 

Edit 2: Also if you do start healing someone, generally it's a lot easier for it to be noticed, and you have just made yourself the focus of the all the dps, and as a commando that ain't good news

Edited May 1, 2012 by Moryu

[Tiber_Septim]

Yes, a gunslinger might outdps, but it's a close race for me oftentimes. I'm not saying that commando is great ATM because it's not, the nerfs should have come with some utility to account for loss of damage.

[Moryu]

Seeing as we are talking about commando utility a bit here, and someone mentioned that we can heal if required.

One other point I want to make in comaparison to our Vanguard/PT brothers is this;

A vanguard/PT runs in and sees his healer being raged upon by one dpser, he can use his taunt to reduce dmg inc by 30% (this is a flat rate not dependant on gear) on that target for 6 seconds and can then jump straight in and start dpsing the dpser, he could then use his aoe taunt to reduce dmg again, all instant abilities that use the GCD. He could even guard the healer, all very quick and easy stuff to use and we've not even got to the fact he could still pull the dpser off and stun him if need be (granted we could do that also on a commando with a punt).

Now a commando runs into the same situation, they can heal the guy being attacked but do no dmg while doing this (or very limited), there healing is totally dependant on the gear they have. Granted we could just mezz the guy with concussion round, but you're not getting anywhere.

Obviously this is all situational, and pvp in wzs is never the same but I still think that even though we can heal if need be, it does not compare to what our other ACs can do.

[Pavixx]

Although I do agree with you that we could heal when it's called for (and personally i will heal someone if I think I can save them), but our heals are slow and tbh the dmg input (even from one dpser let alone 2 or more) is normally quite larger than the heal output from a dps commando. The thing is as it stands now, melee who have taken the tank AC line even if dps specced have most of there tank abilities available and have no trouble using them. Try healing as a dps specced commando when you have someone on you, it's nigh on impossible and a complete waste of time.

 

Edit: If you can get breathing room on a someone that is on you (eg; cryo grenade stun and then los them) you can get a heal off, but then it's a quandry of wether your time would have been better spent dpsing them or get one or 2 heals off. We have the utility of healing, but tbh I'd rather have the utility of PT/Vanguard.

 

Edit 2: Also if you do start healing someone, generally it's a lot easier for it to be noticed, and you have just made yourself the focus of the all the dps, and as a commando that ain't good news

I will counterpoint by saying full Gunnery is the worst pvp build at the moment.

CM/Gunnery hybrid:

You will do middle of the road DPS and HPS but you're always useful and that's a huge plus in a pre-made.

When your healers have it under control, you can get some vortexes up with grav round to help burn down targets.

When heals are falling behind, you can spot heal important targets.

Full CM:

Good single target heals. No-one ever complains about having a healer.

If a tank shields you and taunts targets off you, you will have a successful relationship.

CM/Assault hybrid:

Great survivability with plasma cell slow and good heals. Your sustained DPS is not great, but dots are always up to annoy healers and the burst is there when you need to burn down a target (Especially useful in premades where a single target gets marked and its important to burn him down asap)

Full Assault:

Survivability is there with plasma cell slow. Great burst damage output. Very mobile dot build so LOS dancing is your friend.

 

Gunnery is just not a very flexible build. A total lack of mobility and decently long cast times make it very hard to play in pvp. Its still possible to play but you would have to hybrid w/ CM to make it workable.

[Kharim]

as assault im still topping the dps in WZ's a large majority of the time. I do feel comparatively weaker than some other classes, and I think we could use some tweaks, but I'm still holding my own and having fun.

[Recon_Grim]

OP, you say that you have a merc. Commando is the same class. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Edited May 1, 2012 by Recon_Grim

[Delidumrul]

OP, you say that you have a merc. Commando is the same class. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

Aye, I forgot to say that was alrdy happy with merc but just worried about so much complains for commando...

[Secured]

commando healer is very strong.

 

commando dps is unbelievably underpowered and boring. it does not fill any role that others can't do much better.

[Arzoo]

commando healer is very strong.

 

What dimension do you hail from, fine sir?

[Secured]

What dimension do you hail from, fine sir?

 

valor rank 82 commando with a vr 66 guardian.

 

i get about 50-150k dmg and 350-450k heal with fewer deaths than most tanks and more kills than any other class. only my medal average is lower than i could wish. I really think that commando heal is strong, even though its not that much fun to play.

 

i can only compare it to sage heal, and even if the supporting capabilitys of this class are much stronger, they die really fast and cant heal that effective.

 

but i have to say that i feel much more effective if i play my guardian. he supports the team very well, is fun to play, has insane cc's, high survivability and does very good damage (i'm 16/25/0 specced).

Edited May 2, 2012 by Secured

[Redcorn]

I have spoken out many times about the commando nerf of 1.2. It did not make me happy.

 

In PVE as a gunny spec I still do well. Other classes/specs can do the job better. PVE gives time for our slow heals to be used as self heals and emergency heals which is nice. I can't speak to the medic spec. The assault spec should be fine in PVE, but you give up the most useful ability of the commando which is fighting at range.

 

In PVP as a gunny my damage is less than what it used to be, and I can deal with that. The current problem for me is that I have 0 survive-ability. I don't have the abilities to counter effectively, and now heavy armor seems to offer little protection. Prior to 1.2 I used to be able to take a few hits, but now not so much. A well structured group will succeed with a dps commando, but they would succeed more easily and more often with a different DPS class in your place.