Jedi Hypocrisy as Displayed on Tython

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Regarding the fleshraider situation, I've got a quote from Master Gehnso(one of the questgivers for Flesh Raider Factfinding) on the topic:

 

If we understand the Flesh Raiders' culture, what motivates their violence, we may yet forge peace. Unfortunately our emissaries are met with aggression. The latest team fled, but not before witnessing strange idols in the Flesh Raiders' camp.

 

So based on the quote, the Jedi do send emissaries to try and make peace with the Fleshraiders. Unfortunatly(Master Gehnso turn in dialogue for Flesh Raider Factfinding):

 

Interesting. According to these markings... it's like the Flesh Raiders see us as animals.

 

So it will be a long process before the Jedi are able to reach the fleshraiders as a whole.

 

Regarding the pilgrims, while the Order as a whole may not be helping them at the beginning of the game, individual members do. As an example Master Wix(start dialogue for Flesh Raider Factfinding) says the following in regards to the pilgrims:

 

There are those of us who try to prevent their suffering.

Okay not the most detailed quote, but I think it makes my point. Besides, the LS ending for Tython for the JK has the JK suggesting to the Council that they should work closer with the pilgrims, and the Council does appear to open to changing its position. The Jedi may make mistakes, but they are willing to try and correct them when they realize it.

[Rhadamanthine]

How do you know there was no attempts at diplomacy in the past? The Flesh Raiders attack everyone and eat everyone on sight. How do you think any attempts at diplomacy would have gone?

 

I don't know why everyone says the Sith and Jedi are the same except the Sith are more "upfront" about their wrongdoings.

 

That is ridiculous. Did you even pay attention to the Sith questing? Do the Jedi keep brutalized slaves that they kill on a whim? Do the Jedi force their students to kill each other to prove who is the strongest? Are Jedi encouraged to attack and subjugate alien races? Are Sith ever expected to fight peaceful solutions? There are Jedi who are devoted to being diplomats. Ar are the Jedi in a never ending struggle for conflict and power?

 

"Peace is the ideal, padawan. But there is no shame in defending yourself" - Master Shan.

 

"When something is no longer useful, it should be eradicated." - Overseer Tremel

 

It's fashionable to attack the less morally repugnant side for missteps while equating the acts of gross criminality and evil which the other faction frequently indulges in as equal and 'honest' (when not ignoring them altogether). Cultural relativism also steps in, where if it's the second faction's cultural philosophy to do those things for some esoteric goal, then all the suffering they deliberately cause is justified because ends make the means ok. This is not the only fandom it happens in. It's a fact of life.

[SweetOldBob]

The OP has a point. Really, a Sith is just a Jedi who has stopped taking his meds.

 

Sorry for the troll-bait, couldn't resist. But interestingly, in the comics, Knights of the Old Republic, a cabal of Jedi murder their padwans and frame the crime on another padwan, Carrick (as in "Carrick Station"), mainly because of their hatred for the Sith and misinterpreted visions of a Sith threat. And as truely evil as these characters were, they somehow did not dabble in the Dark Side.

 

The Jedi may resemble a monastic order, but they are not saints.

[Rhadamanthine]

The OP has a point. Really, a Sith is just a Jedi who has stopped taking his meds.

 

Sorry for the troll-bait, couldn't resist. But interestingly, in the comics, Knights of the Old Republic, a cabal of Jedi murder their padwans and frame the crime on another padwan, Carrick (as in "Carrick Station"), mainly because of their hatred for the Sith and misinterpreted visions of a Sith threat. And as truely evil as these characters were, they somehow did not dabble in the Dark Side.

 

The Jedi may resemble a monastic order, but they are not saints.

 

TBH, the Jedi Covenant was always kind of weird to me. Not in what they did (it was an interesting plot given how the Covenant was originally established), but how they didn't really receive any direct consequences for it. I guess you can say they got all despondent and guilty over it, but you would figure that for such a horrible act they'd really roll in the Dark Side points. It's been awhile since I've read it so I may be misremembering, but aside from Raana (who became psychotic with rage), they weren't that affected by it.

 

As for the Jedi not being saints, I should hope not. They should show some amount of restraint with their otherworldly abilities like their training teaches them and not be murderers and thieves, but aside from that seeing lots of Jedi who are just jerks or have otherwise bad personalities doesn't really surprise me. That's just what you're going to get.

[Captain_Zone]

also, to be fair. its not a normal twi'lek refugee village.

 

it is sorta a crazy religious cult that was even shunned by other twi'leks lol

 

Not so much a religious cult as a different government style. Twi'lek culture is usually a patriarchal society, but the Twi'leks on Tython used a matriarchal form of government where the women were in charge. They broke a lot of traditions, and were ostracized by their own people for it. In fact...

 

WARNING! MAJOR SPOILER INCOMING!!!!

 

 

Kolovish, the old retired Matriarch is actually a member of the Star Cabal that plots the destruction of both Republic and Empire.

 

Edited April 30, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Shadenuat]

Jedi Knight has a much more straight and brawly way of doing things plotwise. If you want to solve things peacefully and do more humble approach, should've rolled with Consular. While most people think of Consular story as dry, it's actually more intelligent and jedi-like. I know that, cause I have 50 Consular and 40 Knight, and Knight one actually has less appeal to me: it's too "heroic", to the point when it becomes outright silly. As Consular, I remember making important decisions on relationship with twi'leks of Tython. There are also universal quests which can make you show jedi better ways: a flesheater baby quest and flesheater force sensitive quest. Jedi of Tython are jedi, but so are you. Do things other way than them - game allows it. Edited April 30, 2012 by Shadenuat

[Krenzik]

Jedi Knight has a much more straight and brawly way of doing things plotwise. If you want to solve things peacefully and do more humble approach, should've rolled with Consular. While most people think of Consular story as dry, it's actually more intelligent and jedi-like. I know that, cause I have 50 Consular and 40 Knight, and Knight one actually has less appeal to me: it's too "heroic", to the point when it becomes outright silly. As Consular, I remember making important decisions on relationship with twi'leks of Tython. There are also universal quests which can make you show jedi better ways: a flesheater baby quest and flesheater force sensitive quest. Jedi of Tython are jedi, but so are you. Do things other way than them - game allows it.

 

I see what you're saying, and you do get the choices to right some of those wrongs. My point is, if the Jedi were even remotely close to following their ideals, it wouldn't be up to a padawan to make these things happen. Many situations in this game leave gray areas for the more self serving in the republic to put their own desires ahead of doing the right thing, while still staying just to the correct side of the line. I don't see how they can justify just letting the refugees die. Have soldiers come down, bus them out and unceremoniously dump them on another habitated world. That's a cruddy thing to do in many ways, but with the right spin on it, they can always say "hey we did our job and got these people to safety and they were granted asylum within the republic.

 

I just don't see how anyone can justify the plausibility of this simply because of the Twi'lek camp's fringe religious beliefs or that no diplomatic overtures of any kind were made with the Flesheaters just because they're technologically in the stone age. If nothing else the flesheaters could have been subdued with a vulgar display of force power without harming a soul. We've seen jedi collapse caves, move huge boulders and objects, etc. A display of that kind of power would keep them in line. Maybe the flesheaters would end up worshipping them as gods.

 

The solutions as I described are morally ambiguous given the Jedi code, but both barely fall within the lines and stick to their main credo of only killing as a last resort. They have total control over this situation, yet choose essentially to just murder, encroach and let people in need die for nothing.

 

Btw, some great discussion here!

[Saseav]

The OP has a point. Really, a Sith is just a Jedi who has stopped taking his meds.

 

Sorry for the troll-bait, couldn't resist. But interestingly, in the comics, Knights of the Old Republic, a cabal of Jedi murder their padwans and frame the crime on another padwan, Carrick (as in "Carrick Station"), mainly because of their hatred for the Sith and misinterpreted visions of a Sith threat. And as truely evil as these characters were, they somehow did not dabble in the Dark Side.

 

The Jedi may resemble a monastic order, but they are not saints.

 

not really mirepresented

Carrick does enable the death of all masters via Gryph. but it wasn't a sith, and that order was infiltrated by a dark sider, and stuck the main leader in a 'carbonite'-esque thing

\

The Jedi do attempt peace with the Flesh Raiders, but we're animals to them. On the other hand, They might not even be really indigenous but much like the Jedi transported there, although them by the Rakata(you do see Flesh radiers on Belsavis, which was a former Rakata prison) Dawn of the Jedi has no reference to them as of yet either.

 

The pilgrims however, are here illegally and are a cult that was chased off their own homeworld. Republic condemned this, and the Jedi are busy rebuilding. Since their oath is to the republic, they have to follow republic laws, which while they can't currently relocate the Pilgrims they can't exactly give aid.

 

And much like Voss the situation they accept that the Voss and Jedi can co-exist, and they begin a student exchange program.

[Rhadamanthine]

I see what you're saying, and you do get the choices to right some of those wrongs. My point is, if the Jedi were even remotely close to following their ideals, it wouldn't be up to a padawan to make these things happen. Many situations in this game leave gray areas for the more self serving in the republic to put their own desires ahead of doing the right thing, while still staying just to the correct side of the line. I don't see how they can justify just letting the refugees die. Have soldiers come down, bus them out and unceremoniously dump them on another habitated world. That's a cruddy thing to do in many ways, but with the right spin on it, they can always say "hey we did our job and got these people to safety and they were granted asylum within the republic.

 

I just don't see how anyone can justify the plausibility of this simply because of the Twi'lek camp's fringe religious beliefs or that no diplomatic overtures of any kind were made with the Flesheaters just because they're technologically in the stone age. If nothing else the flesheaters could have been subdued with a vulgar display of force power without harming a soul. We've seen jedi collapse caves, move huge boulders and objects, etc. A display of that kind of power would keep them in line. Maybe the flesheaters would end up worshipping them as gods.

 

The solutions as I described are morally ambiguous given the Jedi code, but both barely fall within the lines and stick to their main credo of only killing as a last resort. They have total control over this situation, yet choose essentially to just murder, encroach and let people in need die for nothing.

 

Btw, some great discussion here!

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't blame the Jedi so much as I blame the usual story thread of "the PC is the golden boy/girl who has a destiny we're going to lay on thick from the get go". The moment I heard about that village's issues I went uh oh, I'm going to have to deal with it, and sure enough I did. The idea that some other Jedi would have been fed up long ago and been a maverick and helped the village when it was obviously so close to the Temple never even entered the darkest dreams of the person who came up with the quest line.

 

The spying on the Padawans quest was kind of left field but I could at least understand it, and the Masters kind of had a point with it too (even the guy in the relationship realized something bad could happen). But the village? Why did my Padawan have to deal with that? Are all the other Jedi really that gutless? These guys just fought a war, they are perfectly capable of telling the Republic to shove it for this one instance, and it's not like the Republic could say no. They needed the Jedi and they knew it. For that matter, the Council needed the other Jedi and weren't about to kick them out in their time of need after so many were killed, and they sure didn't do it to the Padawan PC. I can't even remember hearing anything about consequences.

 

If the context for Tython had been different (village way farther away, general atmosphere alot less relaxed, more overall talk about the Jedi being stretched thin by the Flesh Raiders and other things) then I wouldn't have gotten that vibe that the story was just setting the PC up to be the coolest Jedi ever from day 1 in any way it could. At the expense of the setting around them.

 

I say this because I didn't just see it on the Jedi quests. So my poor little Inquisitor got sent into the tomb of Marka Ragnos, and apparently succeeded beyond the wildest expectations of anyone when she returned with a holocron that was, and I quote, 'irretrievable for a thousand years'. She got it by reciting the Code and then shooting some weak lightning at it. Really Korriban-Sith? An Acolyte? Really? Could you awesome Lords just not bring yourselves to enter that scary tomb and take the holocron, or did you just not care because it actually only held Marka Ragnos' collection of vintage Sith pin-ups? I not only insulted Harkun and Ffon for being losers who couldn't tie their shoelaces once I finished the quest, but I wish there had been an extended dialogue tree in which my Inquisitor could gloat over her absolute superiority even further. She sure earned it!

[afedyuki]

I could justify the attitude towards Twi'lek colony -- no one invited them. If they don't like it they can leave.

 

But... by the same token, the Jedi are trespassing on someone else's property and are being treated accordingly.

[ScarletBlaze]

I could justify the attitude towards Twi'lek colony -- no one invited them. If they don't like it they can leave.

 

But... by the same token, the Jedi are trespassing on someone else's property and are being treated accordingly.

 

Actually the Jedi were not trespassing. Tython was actually the ancestral homeworld of the Jedi Order. They had returned home after the Attack on Coruscant.

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tython

 

 

 

Dawn of the Jedi

 

In this era, Tython was a wild and primordial world, rich with the Force. Breathtakingly beautiful, it could also be harsh and dangerous. Naturally occurring Force Storms tore at the skies, and fantastic creatures roamed the forest jungles. Places such as The Rift, the Old City and the Silent Desert were among the significant locations on this world around 36,000 BBY.

 

In the year 36,453 BBY, the Tho Yor—the nine great pyramid ships—carried the Force-sensitive ancestors of the Je'daii Order to Tython. These pilgrims included Humans, Cathar, Selkath, Twi'lek, Noghri, Wookiees, and even Sith. It was on this world that the brightest and best philosophers, priests, scientists and warriors—calling themselves the Je'daii Order—came together to discuss their discoveries involving the enigmatic, mystical Ashla, the precursor of the light side of the Force.

 

By 25,793 BBY, the Tho Yor were scattered around the planet, each the site of one of the nine Great Temples of the Je'daii. The temples were Akar Kesh, the Temple of Balance; Anil Kesh, the Temple of Science; Mahara Kesh, the Temple of Healing; Kaleth, the Temple of Knowledge; Bodhi, the Temple of the Arts; Vur Tepe, the Forge; Qigong Kesh, the Temple of Force Skills; Stav Kesh, the Temple of Martial Arts; and Padawan Kesh, the Je'daii Academy.

 

The Force Wars of Tython.

Dissidents who used Bogan, the precursor of the dark side of the Force, eventually arose around 25,793 BBY, sparking the Force Wars of Tython.[6]

 

Pre-Republic

 

From the ashes of these wars arose the early Jedi Order, the first Jedi High Council, and the Jedi Code. At the Forge, a temple erected beyond the Tythos Ridge, the early Jedi crafted weapons that would serve as the template for the lightsaber.

 

Initially, the Jedi believed their power was limited to Tython only, though this was later proven otherwise[7] when a proactive group left Tython to liberate other worlds, becoming the Jedi Knights around 25,783 BBY.[6] Jedi from Tython founded a philosophy school on Ossus, defining the light side and dark side of the Force—equivalent to the ancient Ashla and Bogan, respectively—the Living Force and Unifying Force.[8] Some legends claimed that Tython's explorers traveled to Caamas to learn proper moral judgment.[7]

 

Old Republic era

 

In an effort to purge the known galaxy of the terentateks, viewed by the Jedi Order as monstrous abominations that posed as an affront to the Force, the Jedi Council charged many of the Order's members with the task of hunting down the creatures and executing them with extreme prejudice. Known as the Great Hunt, many Jedi dispersed throughout the Republic to hunt down and destroy the monsters that preyed on the blood of Force-sensitives. Among the worlds that were cleansed was Tython, thus ridding the Jedi's ancient homeworld of terentatek threat in 3,994 BBY.

 

The Jedi Temple on Tython erected after the Treaty of Coruscant.

 

Tython's location was lost at some point when the unstable hyperlanes leading to the world collapsed, but was later rediscovered during the early years of the Great Galactic War by the Jedi Satele Shan. After the Sacking of Coruscant in 3,653 BBY, the Jedi Order relocated its primary residence to the Jedi Temple on Tython. There, they proceeded with the task of rebuilding the Order, clearing groves of brambles and resurfacing old paths. Initial scouts discovered the ruins of the lost fortress city of Kaleth and other ruins scattered around a mountainous region of the planet, including the old Forge. As building began on the Order's new Temple, the Jedi encountered the Flesh Raiders for the first time. While the natives proved hostile, the Jedi built their headquarters out of their territory and hoped to study their behavior during their stewardship of the planet.

 

Soon after resettling the world, the Jedi were startled when a pilgrimage of Twi'leks arrived on the world and established the illegal settlement known as Kalikori Village in the mountains above the Order's Temple.[4] Because the Galactic Senate did not authorize the pilgrims' presence on the world, the Jedi were unable to assist as the Twi'leks were attacked repeatedly by the Flesh Raiders, much to the chagrin of the pilgrims.[10]

 

Sometime well before 1,990 BBY, the hyperlane to Tython had become unstable once more and forgotten, though it remained recorded in the Jedi Archives on Coruscant.[11] At some point after 1,289 BBY, Belia Darzu built a massive temple that she used as one of her barracks for her army of technobeasts; she also left her holocron in this temple.[11] In 1,230 BBY she was poisoned on Tython by the Mecrosa Order at the behest of her fellow Sith Lords. But, her technobeasts remained in the temple, waiting for the next order from their master who never returned.

Tython featured lush forests.

 

By the year 990 BBY, no one had traveled to Tython in some time because of its location in the Deep Core. However, rebel leader and aspiring Sith Hetton had located navigational charts to Tython. He later passed these charts onto Darth Zannah, in return for a promise for apprenticeship. Zannah later betrayed Hetton, and gave the charts to her master, Darth Bane. While Zannah left for the Jedi Archives, he traveled to Tython to access information on how to construct a Sith Holocron from Darzu's holocron. There he found Darzu's temple. Inside, he located her holocron, though it was surrounded by her technobeasts, still awaiting their master. After slashing through the mass of the beasts, Bane got ahold of the holocron he sought and spent the next few days studying its many secrets.

 

After Zannah fled from the Jedi Archives on Coruscant, Jedi Masters Valenthyne Farfalla, Raskta Lsu, and Worror Dowmat, along with Jedi Knights Johun Othone and Sarro Xaj, pursued her to Tython. When they arrived, they fought Bane and Zannah. The two Sith Lords defeated them, killing them all. However, Bane was seriously injured. Zannah departed, taking her master to Ambria in hopes of finding the healer

Edited May 3, 2012 by ScarletBlaze

[Krenzik]

Actually the Jedi were not trespassing. Tython was actually the ancestral homeworld of the Jedi Order. They had returned home after the Attack on Coruscant.

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tython

 

 

 

Dawn of the Jedi*snip*

 

I'm not contesting the history the Jedi have with this world, but let's face it. The Flesheaters are the indigenous people, and no effort was made to find a nonviolent solution. Given their primitivism, the Jedi should have been able to come in and be worshipped as gods to avoid the violence if other ideas failed.

 

Another poster above said that basically it was okay to let the Twi'leks die because they were there illegally. I just don't see justification for not offering protection and humanitarian aid to the refugees before having them shipped out and dumped on another republic world. They could have stuck more closely with their ideals and still not do the 100% "right thing."

[OldVengeance]

If the Flesh raiders were unafraid of attacking the Jedi en masse in the game they obvioulsy weren't terrified of the jedi's powers. And even if they could have been made to fear the most powerful master (they know they can kill many of the weaker students), that doesn't mean they were about to bow down to them, it may just mean they'd hate them more.

 

If they view the Jedi as animals they aren't going to jump to worshiping them as gods, no matter how powerful they were.

[ScarletBlaze]

I'm not contesting the history the Jedi have with this world, but let's face it. The Flesheaters are the indigenous people, and no effort was made to find a nonviolent solution. Given their primitivism, the Jedi should have been able to come in and be worshipped as gods to avoid the violence if other ideas failed.

 

Another poster above said that basically it was okay to let the Twi'leks die because they were there illegally. I just don't see justification for not offering protection and humanitarian aid to the refugees before having them shipped out and dumped on another republic world. They could have stuck more closely with their ideals and still not do the 100% "right thing."

 

I not saying I agree with what they did with the Twi'leks. My only point was correcting a comment that said the Jedi were trepassing on Tython.

 

I agree that something should have been done to help the Twi'leks . Even if they were there illegaly is still no excuse not to help them in some way even if it meant moving them to a better republic world.

[Captain_Lurker]

I'm not contesting the history the Jedi have with this world, but let's face it. The Flesheaters are the indigenous people, and no effort was made to find a nonviolent solution. Given their primitivism, the Jedi should have been able to come in and be worshipped as gods to avoid the violence if other ideas failed.

 

Another poster above said that basically it was okay to let the Twi'leks die because they were there illegally. I just don't see justification for not offering protection and humanitarian aid to the refugees before having them shipped out and dumped on another republic world. They could have stuck more closely with their ideals and still not do the 100% "right thing."

 

Actually I think in some of the Jedi quests on Tython it is stated that the Fleshraiders are NOT indigenous. If I remember correctly the Jedi order believes they are either remnants of the Dark Jedi corruption of the Flashraidrs ancestors to make them Jedi killers or just transported from another planet to help kill off the ancient Jedi.

 

On the Twileks, well the Twileks chose to disregard laws and are paying the price for their foolish decision. It is not the responsibility of the Jedi or the Republic to chase after every sentient through out the galaxy and rescue them everytime that they do something that brings harm to them. People's decisions in life (like the Twileks) have consequences and falls upon those who made their decision to pay for them. Its a little thing called "personal responsibility". It can be harsh, and at times you might be lucky to have someone willing and able to help, but no one is obligated to help those who are not wise enough to keep themselves out of harms way.

[natashina]

Actually I think in some of the Jedi quests on Tython it is stated that the Fleshraiders are NOT indigenous. If I remember correctly the Jedi order believes they are either remnants of the Dark Jedi corruption of the Flashraidrs ancestors to make them Jedi killers or just transported from another planet to help kill off the ancient Jedi.

 

After doing the JC starting quest yesterday, that is absolutely true. Much like on other planets, the Jedi are playing clean up for previous mistakes. I haven't gotten much into the EU outside of the game, but the original Force Wars got very nasty from what I've seen.

 

On the Twileks, well the Twileks chose to disregard laws and are paying the price for their foolish decision. It is not the responsibility of the Jedi or the Republic to chase after every sentient through out the galaxy and rescue them everytime that they do something that brings harm to them. People's decisions in life (like the Twileks) have consequences and falls upon those who made their decision to pay for them. Its a little thing called "personal responsibility". It can be harsh, and at times you might be lucky to have someone willing and able to help, but no one is obligated to help those who are not wise enough to keep themselves out of harms way.

 

I'm not certain about this one. The Republic, while certainly open minded, can be very suspicious when a group practices a different set of beliefs. There has also been examples throughout Republic stories(such as in Taris or Nar Shaadda,) where alien groups are still misplaced after hundreds of years. Does it say one way or the other if the pilgrims even attempted to appeal to the Republic outside of the Jedi Temple?

 

Also, it's revealed that the pilgrims try to go to the Jedi Temple and plead their case there. I'm willing to guess the Jedi have brought this up to the Senate before and the Senate are still being stubborn. They are the Knights after all and technically bound by the Senate's ruling. The Council's hands are tied by the Senate by bureaucratic red tape. The Jedi still officially can't do anything, yet it is revealed that they do send padawans there to learn about the pilgrims. I think it's a set up for later planets, and the political interests vs the Jedi way. Coruscant seems to back this up quite a bit.

Edited May 3, 2012 by natashina

[Ranadiel_Marius]

I'm not contesting the history the Jedi have with this world, but let's face it. The Flesheaters are the indigenous people, and no effort was made to find a nonviolent solution. Given their primitivism, the Jedi should have been able to come in and be worshipped as gods to avoid the violence if other ideas failed.

 

*sigh* The Jedi did try and find a nonviolent solution, and are continuing to try and find one at the time of the game's start despite nearly a decade of failures in trying to obtain peace with the fleshraiders.To quote myself from earlier in the thread on this topic:

 

Regarding the fleshraider situation, I've got a quote from Master Gehnso(one of the questgivers for Flesh Raider Factfinding) on the topic:

 

If we understand the Flesh Raiders' culture, what motivates their violence, we may yet forge peace. Unfortunately our emissaries are met with aggression. The latest team fled, but not before witnessing strange idols in the Flesh Raiders' camp.

 

So based on the quote, the Jedi do send emissaries to try and make peace with the Fleshraiders. Unfortunatly(Master Gehnso turn in dialogue for Flesh Raider Factfinding):

 

Interesting. According to these markings... it's like the Flesh Raiders see us as animals.

 

So it will be a long process before the Jedi are able to reach the fleshraiders as a whole.

[Tfranco]

Rolled a Jedi knight (eventually guardian) last week, and after my first couple missions on the beginning planet Tython, I've noticed some genuine xenophobic and hypocritical behavior that runs directly against Jedi teachings, as either inferred or plainly stated within the game. This involves how the Jedi treat the indigenous Flesheaters and a settlement of Twi'lek refugees.

 

The flesheaters, as mentioned above, are indigenous to Tython. The Jedi landed and built their temple and training facilities there and have been in conflict with these primitive but sentient tribes for some time. The flesheaters view them as invaders and are acting to remove them from their home. As the story continues, its apparent the Jedi simply landed and moved right in without any sort of diplomatic overtures to the natives, nor any offers of technology, medicine, education, alliance, etc. In fact, in dialogues with Jedi masters, the natives are entirely disregarded as even people because they are not technologically advanced. The solution in dealing with their backlash is to simply kill them, perpetuating a violent cycle that they started.

 

The Twi'leks on the planet are religious refugees and are already a race that has been oppressed and enslaved for generations. The Jedi reaction to this community is at best indifference. The flesheaters attack the Twi'leks and the Jedi don't care to lift a finger to help them, concerned at the outset only with covering their own butts. Also, there is no effort in the form of relief such as medicines, the means to resettle on another world, or equipment to help them more rapidly build their infrastructure. The Jedi regard their settlement as illegal and encroaching on their territory.

 

The Jedi are supposed to stand for the freedom of democracy, as the protectors of freedom and the helpless. The order, like the republic are supposed to strive for tolerance and embrace multispecies diversity. We see none of that here on Tython in Part 1. If anything their behavior is borderline Sith in how they deal with the natives and the refugee camp.

 

If nothing else, you can say the Sith are more up front and honest about their elitism and their gunhand diplomacy.

 

What do you some of you folks think?

 

U realize tython is the ANCIENT Jedi home...aka they were there first or at the same time as flesh raiders. So it's not invasion its returning.

Most of the Jedi want to help the twilekes but can't because of their alliance to the republic.

[VanorDM]

The Flesheaters are the indigenous people, and no effort was made to find a nonviolent solution.

 

That's simply not true. They mentioned a couple times that they tried to make contact with them and the people they sent out were killed.

 

I must say I get really tired of such blatant ignorance being posted here so often. People who clearly have no clue what actually happened, keep posting BS like this.

 

It's like there's this huge anit-Jedi bias out there and people will go as far as posting out and out lies about them to make the Jedi look bad.

Edited May 3, 2012 by VanorDM

[LeeC]

TL; DR

 

The JK quest is about protecting the interests of the republic, the JC quests actually do address all of the original post. The JKs are defenders of the republic, the JCs are the diplomats and scholars. The JC character actually does change the council decision in the end of the tython chain and the council sends aid and jedi to defend the pilgrims. It is also mentions in both the JK and JC tython side quests that they have tried to be diplomatic but the fleshraiders always attack any envoy sent to their camp.

 

/thread.

[Mimirz]

I could be completlely mistaken since it is a while since I played on Tython, but didn't you get to know in one quest or another that the Fleshraiders were created by Sith alchemy/ Dark side corruption or something like that? I think I remember something like that

[Robcoyote]

With regards to the Twi'lek pilgrims, reading the codex entries actually reveals quite a lot (And not just codex from Tython, you need to piece together others from planets about how the Republic does things)

 

The way I interpreted what I read is this.

 

The Jedi rediscovered Tython, and moved their temple there. Hearing of a 'newly' discovered world, a group of heretical twi'leks decided to move there because they had been banned from their own planet due to their religious beliefs, thinking that they would be under Jedi Protection. However, the actual Twi'lek government, not wanting this heresey to continue to survive, has placed pressure on the Republic to brand this settlement as illegal, and order the Jedi Council to deny aid to the colony. As a people, Twi'leks are generally extremely manipulative and sneaky, so imagine what their politicians are like....and the Republic did what the Twi'leks wanted. An order was given to the Jedi to deny all forms of aid to the Pilgrims, an order the Jedi Council were forced to follow due to their alleigance to the Republic government. Individual Jedi are of course, free to help if they wanted to, but the Counil could not be seen to disobey the orders of the Republic in any way. They had to leave it up to the conscience of individual jedi.

You also have to bear in mind the player characters are *exceptional* people, far above the rank and file of the Jedi Order. Many jedi have probably attempted to aid the pilgrims in the past, but not been that great at it

[Krenzik]

That's simply not true. They mentioned a couple times that they tried to make contact with them and the people they sent out were killed.

 

I must say I get really tired of such blatant ignorance being posted here so often. People who clearly have no clue what actually happened, keep posting BS like this.

 

It's like there's this huge anit-Jedi bias out there and people will go as far as posting out and out lies about them to make the Jedi look bad.

 

If I missed a plot point somewhere, I can take it on the chin. No need to flame. Now that you mention it, some of the people who are the hardest to get along with in real life tend to be the ones who choose the most virtuous hero classes in RPG's, but that's a topic for another time.

 

Anyway, if I missed a plot point, I do feel it was seriously glossed over, and I fail to see how people who are able to cause landslides with their minds were unable to get a bunch of barbaric tribesmen with spears into lockstep before the outset of the Jedi story in TOR.

[ScarletBlaze]

If I missed a plot point somewhere, I can take it on the chin. No need to flame. Now that you mention it, some of the people who are the hardest to get along with in real life tend to be the ones who choose the most virtuous hero classes in RPG's, but that's a topic for another time.

 

Anyway, if I missed a plot point, I do feel it was seriously glossed over, and I fail to see how people who are able to cause landslides with their minds were unable to get a bunch of barbaric tribesmen with spears into lockstep before the outset of the Jedi story in TOR.

 

I agree with you that you shouldn't have been flame.

 

There is a small quest that I took as a Jedi Consular that explained that there had been some sent to investigate and try to find diplomatic solutions with regard to the Flesh Raiders but they were met with violence and even one Jedi Master's padawan was killed. I was sent to investigate the artifacts/shrines and at the end of my time on Tython the council had decided to reinvestigate the situation with regard to the Twi'leks.

 

With regard to people thinking the Jedi are always 100% correct in everything they do, that is not the case. Some people tend to put the Jedi on a pedestral that they were never meant to have. A Jedi is a person and as such can make mistakes.

[TheBetty]

It's one of the main arguements the Sith have, that the Jedi are hypocrits & liars.