Bazzoong Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 As far as advertised NM modes drop pve gear better than vendor gear. So THAT would be the equivalent of WH. BM then would equal the pve cam. black hole vendor gear. Which leaves Rakata at the level of recruit gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekai Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) As far as advertised NM modes drop pve gear better than vendor gear. So THAT would be the equivalent of WH. BM then would equal the pve cam. black hole vendor gear. Which leaves Rakata at the level of recruit gear. I am comparing the highest stat gear of each tier. The list doesn't change from what I posted. Stat per stat, my list matches PvP Tiers to PvE Tiers. Battlemaster doesn't suddenly shoot above Rakata because you say so. Stat distribution for the pieces is based on the items level for it's Tier. And Battlemaster has far more Itemlevel distribution then Recruit, substantially so. Edited April 30, 2012 by Dekai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittaany_Banks Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If you come into a PvP match wearing full Rakata you should get rolled by a player wearing full Battlemaster. Likewise If you roll into a PvE Hard Mode wearing Battlemaster you should take more damage and output less damage/healing than someone wearing full Rakata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) I am comparing the highest stat gear of each tier. The list doesn't change from what I posted. Stat per stat, my list matches PvP Tiers to PvE Tiers. Battlemaster doesn't suddenly shoot above Rakata because you say so. Stat distribution for the pieces is based on the items level for it's Tier. And Battlemaster has far more Itemlevel distribution then Recruit, substantially so. BaM gear got updated in 1.2, it is above Rakata gear, this was done due to the fact that WH was supposed to be for rated games and a step up from everything else. Your comparison would be true for pre 1.2 battlemaster gear and pre 1.2 rakata. My 2c Edited April 30, 2012 by Bazzoong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidJustice Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) also... pve players are ... never challenged to rise to the level of pvp players. not their fault but the skill required to best a MOB just isn't the same as to best a person. "Look, good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living? That's something else." ―Han Solo[src] If you have pvp'ers show up on raid night and your guild raids "competitively", your gonna have alot of angry carebears doing the headdown shuffle back to fleet when their spots get taken. and once again, doesn't make a hill o beans to me... I grew up oldskool when that's the way it was... pve to pvp... pvp to gain skill...gear drop on death. Average grind to max level ... YEARS... Watch what you wish for. Edited April 30, 2012 by VoidJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekai Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) BaM gear got updated in 1.2, it is above Rakata gear, this was done due to the fact that WH was supposed to be for rated games and a step up from everything else. Your comparison would be true for pre 1.2 battlemaster gear and pre 1.2 rakata. My 2c Updated, yes. By dropping Base and Secondary stats for more Expertise. Battlemaster is still 140 rating, Rakata is still 140 Rating. They didn't just add more Expertise to Battlemaster leaving the rest of the stats as they were pre 1.2. This is why they warned people, "Hey guys! If you modified your PvP gear? Better put those mods back in or it won't update!" Leaving players who didn't revert their mods, with higher base and secondary stats, but much lower Expertise, which was vital to PvP with the expertise changes. Edited April 30, 2012 by Dekai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogozhi Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I'm a fairly fresh 50, so I'm just starting to put together my sets. I've been using BM gear in place of Columni because it is ever so slightly better, but not nearly as good as Rakata. While I'm sure BM=Rakata in design, when it comes to PvE, BM is more equal to Columni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 expertise is great. i'm able to compete in pvp as a semi casual now that the stat has been improved. it's brilliant, really. i think opposition is mostly coming from carebears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnius Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) God I hate prokid internet slang. Yes, I have a problem with expertise as a mechanic because I'm a stuffed animal with a wildly popular cartoon in the late 1980s - early 90s. Makes perfect sense. If you think the only reason someone is opposed to a stat that forces end-game gear from PVE to be utterly pointless in all aspects of PVP while seeing no problem with the same tier from PVP being just fine through most of PVE content is because they're bad, just say so. Just expect me to call you out for being a hypocrite. Edited April 30, 2012 by Finnius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 expertise is great. i'm able to compete in pvp as a semi casual now that the stat has been improved. it's brilliant, really. i think opposition is mostly coming from carebearswhen 2 people in the lowest tier pvp gear can kill 1 person in the best pvp gear before the person in the best tier gear has a chance to do a single rotation, theres something wrong. i grinded for my gear, suffering through an endless amount of warzones with teams that were horribad. loss after loss. looking forward to bags that had a random droprate of gear/marks of 1 in 30. had a full set of BM gear before 1.2. now my main has a full set of WM critted gear with BM mods and 2 augmented elegant weapons. 1261 expertise and 2 casuals with less than 600 expertise can kill him before he gets through one rotation. ive changed my mind, if they dont revert the change in expertise (at least damage) to pre 1.2 by the next patch day (tomorrow) then i quit, uninstall and i will wait for gw2. im not playing a game that screwed something up so bad that no one was complaining about in the first place. i will not contribute to the life of a community, even for FREE, to a game that completely destroys something that had nothing wrong with it. the healer nerf should have been enough. there was no need to increase damage with expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yep, sounds like its working as intended. Move along please, nothing to see here but noobs who dont understand the game... I know what taxes are, which is exactly what expertise is. PVP Tax, no more no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 i don't see the problem with expertise. you can get recruit gear and be competitive, and the battlemaster grind is incredibly easy. i'd say cry more but you guys have been crying too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPunitor Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 typical pve'er qqing because he gets facerolled in pvp because he refuses to get expertise gear. Seriously, just BUY a set of recruit gear and wear it when you pvp. The recruit gear puts you around 800 expertise which is pretty damn good compared to what most people roll anyway (from what i've seen on my server). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnius Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Also typical PVP whine whenever someone makes a suggestion to balance PVP so that they can have actual competition rather than steamroll slaughterfests. But I suppose you're not actually interested in that, so do be a dear and keep it to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Blind leading the blind around here. You got that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
After-birth Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I would respect Bioware much more if they removed it altogether. Grind for cosmetic armor, pets, titles, commendations, whatever. Whether it serves or handicaps you, Expertise creates imbalance period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 expertise is necessary to prevent raid gear from being superior to pvp gear why are people still crying about this? gear with expertise on it is now stupidly easy to acquire. you NEED expertise to pvp. i still see people in full rakata gear that complain about dying too fast. stop complaining, play the game, and get your gear ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 You have a good point here, but the solution doesn't need to be expertise on the gear. A PvP buff upon enterin PvP could grant all players +X expertise, and still be able to balance pvp aside form pve. The complaint then becomes "Raiders can gear up in pve faster, and then own warzones." Once more, then either increase the time to gear up pve (Lower drop rates, or token/comm based pve progression), or decrease the time pvp. Essential, Equalize it. If neither options are available, then my question is (with expertise being the only a tool to balance pvp aside from pve) why isn't the expertise the same for all 3 sets of pvp gear? Not meaning to pick on you, but if I read the post correctly, you should expect to be gimped in PvP if you use PvE gear, but then you go on to say that Using PvP gear in PvE, you don't feel as if you have an advantage. You shouldn't then, you should feel gimped in PVE content. PvE gear in PvP = Gimped. but PvP gear in PVE = No Advantage, but about equal. Should be (according to the seperate camps model) PvP gear in PvE = Gimped. Yep, I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altruismo Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 expertise is necessary to prevent raid gear from being superior to pvp gear why are people still crying about this? gear with expertise on it is now stupidly easy to acquire. you NEED expertise to pvp. i still see people in full rakata gear that complain about dying too fast. stop complaining, play the game, and get your gear ffs Exactly, if you PVE a lot, the cost of the Recruit gear is insignificant, if you then turn around and PVP a lot, the PVP gear is basically free - you get commendations as a side effect of participating in PVP, BM gear is still VERY good for PVP and it's very easy to get now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiedroid Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 expertise is necessary to prevent raid gear from being superior to pvp gear why are people still crying about this? gear with expertise on it is now stupidly easy to acquire. you NEED expertise to pvp. i still see people in full rakata gear that complain about dying too fast. stop complaining, play the game, and get your gear ffs It is only necessary due to the current game design. The argument is that this is poor design and should be changed. I agree. No we wont stop complaining till we have a balanced game and your nut up or shut up comments add nothing to the argument. Its not the cost or effort in getting the gear thats the real issue here, its the total imbalance it causes to the matches. So much so, players are just leaving warzones now rather than spending 10mins getting romped. The amount of matches you need to grind simply to get average gear to compete is too high resulting in too many matches where you simply have no fun. If PVP system is working so well with Expertise then why does is this issue growing?? Why have there been so many threads on this topic and so many unhappy PVP players?? Glad u are happy with the design, but many of us are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooosh Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Its a WoW thing. WoW kids think it makes sense but they wouldnt understand because WoW was their first mmo. Edited May 4, 2012 by Sireene use of retarded - PM'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrom Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Its a WoW thing. WoW kids think it makes sense but they wouldnt understand because WoW was their first mmo. It has nothing to do with WoW. It has to do with some of us who are PvPers who don't like to PvE. We don't like PvE Scrubs coming into a Warzone with their overpowered Care Bear Gear and ripping us to shreds. To get PvP gear, you have to PvP. To get PvE gear, you have to PvE. Duh. If PvP players are upset, it's because it's a crap PvP game, not because of Expertise. Edited May 4, 2012 by Sireene quote of edited post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I support expertise because I all I do is PvP. It would be extremely unfair if HM raiders had the best gear while PvPers got the short end of the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I support expertise because I all I do is PvP. It would be extremely unfair if HM raiders had the best gear while PvPers got the short end of the stick. I dont understand this argument. If both sides had equal stated gear then where is the advantage on one side or the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altruismo Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I dont understand this argument. If both sides had equal stated gear then where is the advantage on one side or the other? When you give both sides equal gear you get into the territory of side A or side B being upset that the "other side" has percieved or real easier access to the same gear. "Wah!! Why should soloqueue PVP guy be allowed to lose his way to the Facemelt Raygun!?!? no fair!!" "Wah!! It takes 3977 hours of PVP to grind a Facemelt Raygun, and those PVEers only have to kill one boss (with a 0.2% droprate) to get one!!!" Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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