Bioware Ruined The Commando DPS Class.

[NDiggy]

Feel free to play whatever class you want. Nobody is forcing you.

 

Feel free to keep playing the worst pvp class in the game, including dps scoundrels. Nobody is forcing you.

[SneakyErvin]

Grav round is a tech attack (i.e. yellow damage)...which means it can't be shielded and only rolls against the force/tech defense (which is like 2%). It is still mitigated by armor though (since it is kinetic damage).

 

Full auto, HIB and hammer shot are considered ranged attacks which can be shielded and roll against the higher defense rating as well as being mitigated by armor.

 

Hes wrong and you are wrong. There is no force/tech defense, force and tech are not a damage type.

 

Force and tech just means its at 100% accuracy as baseline while melee/ranged are at a 90% accuracy baseline. It doesnt matter if its yellow or white, thats just so you will be able to spot what its you/them.

 

Yellow = force/tech (cant be parried, dodged or blocked)

White = ranged/melee (can be parried, blocked or dodged)

 

Then the type of damage it does is described in the tooltip of the ability.

 

Elemental (can be defended against by the resistance value, highest so far is 9% by assassins)

Internal (can be defended against by the resistance value, highest so far is 9% by assassins)

Kinetic (mitigated by armor if it hits)

Energy (mitigated by armor if it hits)

 

Grav/Tracer are Kinetic attacks and tech, so it means they will always hit their target unless the caster has a accuracy debuff on them, like dark charge discharge or quake. Oil slick and obfuscate does not apply, since it only applies to melee and ranged attacks. Armor reduces damage taken.

[Junostorm]

Hes wrong and you are wrong. There is no force/tech defense, force and tech are not a damage type.

 

Force and tech just means its at 100% accuracy as baseline while melee/ranged are at a 90% accuracy baseline. It doesnt matter if its yellow or white, thats just so you will be able to spot what its you/them.

 

Yellow = force/tech (cant be parried, dodged or blocked)

White = ranged/melee (can be parried, blocked or dodged)

 

Then the type of damage it does is described in the tooltip of the ability.

 

Elemental (can be defended against by the resistance value, highest so far is 9% by assassins)

Internal (can be defended against by the resistance value, highest so far is 9% by assassins)

Kinetic (mitigated by armor if it hits)

Energy (mitigated by armor if it hits)

 

Grav/Tracer are Kinetic attacks and tech, so it means they will always hit their target unless the caster has a accuracy debuff on them, like dark charge discharge or quake. Oil slick and obfuscate does not apply, since it only applies to melee and ranged attacks. Armor reduces damage taken.

 

You have pretty much everything correct with the exception of the melee/ranged accuracy. The only thing that is bound to the 90% baseline are attacks which cost no ammo, i.e. Hammer Shot. If the attack uses ammo it is considered a special attack and the baseline is 100%.

[TUXs]

There is no new "rotation" as I said in the original post. It's the same EXACT rotation. It just takes longer.

 

Bioware did NOTHING to change it. All they did was NERF it.

 

And why would ANYONE use a different rotation that is less effective than the one we have now? Especially when the high output skills we have now do little to nothing before we die?

 

Why use Charged Bolts for example other than a back up from being silenced on Grav Round?

 

Bioware changed nothing and gave no one a reason to use a different rotation.

 

PERIOD.

 

 

 

 

Did you not read or understand the post?

 

Commandos are going to DEFEND themselves with one sheild, one stun and one knockback against every other class with higher and FASTER DPS output, defensive sheilds, interrupts, gap closers , heals, stealth ETC?

 

The problem is your logic.

 

And if you don't even play a commando I highly doubt you even have a clue about this.

VERY well said!

[JLapp]

Hes wrong and you are wrong. There is no force/tech defense, force and tech are not a damage type.

 

Force/Tech defense = resistance.

 

Though hardly comes into play since it can't be increased and can be over-came by accuracy.

[SneakyErvin]

Force/Tech defense = resistance.

 

Though hardly comes into play since it can't be increased and can be over-came by accuracy.

 

Nope, read up on resistance before making such comments. Resistance only applies to elemental and internal damage. Its there in black and white in your characters defense window.

 

Armor is the only defense vs tech/force, unless they count as internal (affliction) or elemental (flame burst), in which case armor is ignored and resistance comes into play.

 

There is no base resistance vs tech/force. It all depends what damage type it is. Tech and force will always hit its target as I said before unless the caster is accuracy debuffed. And all debuffs that effect tech/force accuracy are 5%, so if you get 105% accuracy you are golden for PvP, well 109% if you want to avoid any minimal resist when fighting an assassin or shadow (besides when they shroud), but this only applies to internal/elemental based attacks, both tech/force and melee/ranged. Cant remember what rnaged/melee attacks there are that are elemental or internal.

Edited May 1, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[rsomazzi]

I am a sniper, and compared to you i put effort in my kills. Grav round is noob skill that ignores any defenses and shields. You are sitting comfortable in heavy armor and spam grav round grav round demolition round railshot full auto. If you were assault, i would understand, but you are playing easy mode no skill.

 

Sniper? LOL. Grav Round now does a fraction of the damage it once did, as BW put it, so Commandos would have to "think" about the rest of their rotation from now on. Not because it's OP, mind you, but because BW wants Commandos to "try other stuff". We're still forced into standing still post 1.2, with the same rotation as before, using the same abilities as before, along with no new ones, and still the same craptastic defense against every ability given to every other class. If they wanted to help bring the Commando on par with the other classes, they would have instead made the Gunnery tree more mobile, and/or provide some mitigation against chain interrupts and CC. But as the dps tools, those didn't change a lick either.

 

Oh, and thanks for Bioware for NOT putting the recent 1.0.2c nerf to Demo Round in the patch notes. That isn't a mistake, that's just adding insult to injury. And that's just to Commandos, who else was changes is a mystery. If you can't trust your game's devs, then people will start looking for an exit. I was amazed this past weekend how many of my 380 member guild on Naad's was off playing GW2. I think we had 16 on during the weekend. Not a good sign for the state of things. Not a good sign.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Averran
rude

[djcreature]

The funny thing about this thread is that you can pretty much see every single class saying the same thing about themselves. We are nerfed every other class is OP. I play a commando and do fine with it. You just have to play defensively. If you see someone coming get the hell away. Every other class can be taken down just as fast as commandos can.

[NDiggy]

The funny thing about this thread is that you can pretty much see every single class saying the same thing about themselves. We are nerfed every other class is OP. I play a commando and do fine with it. You just have to play defensively. If you see someone coming get the hell away. Every other class can be taken down just as fast as commandos can.

 

Neither my Sentinel nor my Assassin can be killed as quickly as my Commando, and they're both in Recruit gear. My Commando, in comparison, had been full BM for almost a month before 1.2 went live. The Guardian and the Scoundrel I PvP with don't have the issues Commandos have with being burst down. And just to add insult to injury, even if they are focused, they can still put out good damage, whereas Commandos get almost completely shut down.

[Secured]

i'm a valor 82 commando. pretty much gunnery all the way. i've switched to playing my guardian most of the time.

 

Commando doesnt do dmg anymore. not because the skills were nerfed, but because people learned how to play.

and for everyone who blames the commando player - no, it's not their fault and "just play better" isnt an argument because the skill ceiling with the commandos limited options is just very low.

how should i play better? hit the buttons harder?

I dont have an interrupt. I cant position myself like the other classes with their mobility and stealth skills. I barely have any cc that i could use wisely. I cant really use heals, because they have even higher casttime than my other skills that get constantly interrupted.

 

i play my commando as a healer atm. it's way more challenging than gunnery and it's actually really strong.

[Nytak]

I have a 50 commando that I just retired. Valor rank 69 (really close to 70), something close to 500 hours playtime etc.. Lots of pre 1.2 pvp/pve. Just got full BM gear a few days ago (finally).

 

Got my sage to 50 last night, purchased the recruit set, walked into a pug warzone, left with 14 medals and doing 220k dmg... Not too shabby.

 

I think I've broke 200k dmg once on my commando since 1.2 hit, and I rarely get more than 9 commendations, and actually struggle to get 4 sometimes. My sage, 9 is about the average.

 

But yeah, commando's are just fine.

[mtsr]

I have a 50 commando that I just retired. Valor rank 69 (really close to 70), something close to 500 hours playtime etc.. Lots of pre 1.2 pvp/pve. Just got full BM gear a few days ago (finally).

 

Got my sage to 50 last night, purchased the recruit set, walked into a pug warzone, left with 14 medals and doing 220k dmg... Not too shabby.

 

I think I've broke 200k dmg once on my commando since 1.2 hit, and I rarely get more than 9 commendations, and actually struggle to get 4 sometimes. My sage, 9 is about the average.

 

But yeah, commando's are just fine.

 

Going to grind out that last levels of valor to get 70 on LOLNerfomando.

Equip my crafted War Heros then switch back to Shadow.

 

Maybe I will still terrorize WZ's from time to time but looks like PVE isn't really viable.

 

Would raise a DPS Sage but they will probally get nerfed next maybe seeing as they also are ranged, Sentinel or Maruder but not without Legacy leveling unlocks.

[Kharim]

Merc/commandos needs a top to toe tree rebuild of each tree, or at least the dps trees to make them competitive in pvp.

 

I'm top dps in 90% of my warzones, though a bit fragile... but that seems fair.

 

To be honest I would kick a commando from my 8 man premade for any other class, with equal skill and gear in consideration.

 

Might keep you over a dps scoundrel though.

 

Then you're a bad leader. Assault commandos hold up quite well compared to most other classes.

 

You have forced snipers to swtich to lethality, why should you stay in gunnery either? Switch to assault

 

Assault has always been the better pvp tree. The people who couldn't recognize it before 1.2 aren't going to recognize it now either, don't waste ur breath.

 

@Tiaa: Roll assault spec and stop whining. Its a very nice spec, great for lining up early bursts and a walk in the park for kiting. And you claim its the worst spec. OK...

 

Indeed.

 

Two problems with that:

1: charged burst and full auto (which proc our HIB ionic accelerator) both have to be standing still to use.

2: by the time we get off incendiary round, assault plastique and THINK about kiting, we're dead

 

Sounds more like your theory, instead of how it works in actuality. The next quote explains it.

 

1. You obviously have no idea how Full Auto/Unload works with its proc, you stand still for a fraction of a second when you dont have time for its full duration. It procs of the first tick, if it fails to proc move on, or let it run its course if you are not getting focused.

 

2. You can move doing all that. IM, RS, TD, Unload, RS, Power surge+TSOR+FM. If the target isnt close to dead by the time that has hit, you need to get better gear. That whole rotation is usable on the move except for a fraction of a second using unload. After than you have the KB and stun if needed. Also, LoS is your friend since you have dots.

 

This guy gets it. Assault has both burst and dot damage, while remaining mobile.

 

If you're into PvP.. I would suggest playing Assault.

 

This guy gets it too.

 

Neither my Sentinel nor my Assassin can be killed as quickly as my Commando, and they're both in Recruit gear. My Commando, in comparison, had been full BM for almost a month before 1.2 went live. The Guardian and the Scoundrel I PvP with don't have the issues Commandos have with being burst down. And just to add insult to injury, even if they are focused, they can still put out good damage, whereas Commandos get almost completely shut down.

 

Commando =/= Gunnery. Use assault for pvp. Yes, we do get burst down really fast now, I'll give you that, but we are still capable of putting out a great deal of damage. As I said above, even dying much faster now than before 1.2, I'm still topping the damage charts in nearly every WZ. That does not sound broken to me. If I'm not being focused, the other team is doing something wrong, and they'll pay for it.

 

If you people were talking about utility or CC or defensive abilities I might be more inclined to agree with you, but most of this thread has been people complaining that Commando DPS is weak, which is simply false. Gunnery may or may not be viable in PVP, but Assault does good damage. L2P.

[dragonzay]

well the fact is

both gunnery and Assault Specialist sucks

 

gunnery

to all of you that keep whining "commando just spam GR and kill me, NERF !!"

im sorry but you need to learn about commando more then

we NEED 5 stack grav vortex buff BEFORE demolition round can hurt someone

it means 3 x cast GR 1.5 sec each

we NEED 5 stack charged barrel buff BEFORE high impact bolt can hurt someone

it means 5 x cast GR 1.5 sec each

grav vortex buff last 15 sec ONLY

i dont like spam GR because its drain my ammo so fast, but i HAVE to

cost 2 ammo from 12, we CANT just spam it, we NEED to manage it like give a sec for ammo to regen

we are a sitting duck, why we cant have high damage ?

 

Assault Specialist

assault spec give more dps a BIT, just... a BIT

we got more damage burst at the start and more mobility

BUT, we LACK of damage buff or armor penetration buff

even a vanguard will laugh at your face because they got more

 

blaster rifle beat assault cannon

or

single wield beat dual wield

well done BW... well done

 

we NEED you to rebuild commando dps tree ASAP or give us a buff !

Edited May 2, 2012 by dragonzay

[MasterRodimus]

Totally Agree, they need to rebuild assault spec tree tailored for Commandos. If the do, I think it would be an awesome PVP tree.....DEATH TO ALL !!!!

[fongers]

I have limited experience with Assault Spec for Commandos but it's always felt like a Vanguard tree to me. If I ran Assault Spec on my Commando I'd probably be more effective in PvP but I don't think I'll ever be as versatile or dangerous as my Assault Spec Vanguard.

[NeverRose]

Besides all that both Comm/Merc can spec AS/Pyro that gives them mobility. This still requires a rotation, but they dont have to stand in one spot.

 

 

 

They do. They need to cast charged bolts/FA for HiB.

 

Assault is garbage for commandos, it works 1000x times better for Vanguard/Powertech.

 

And about "monkey spamming"....They could nerf Grav Round by another 50% and people would still "spam it", because it's tied to many crucial abilities and procs.

[SneakyErvin]

 

Assault Specialist

assault spec give more dps a BIT, just... a BIT

we got more damage burst at the start and more mobility

BUT, we LACK of damage buff or armor penetration buff

even a vanguard will laugh at your face because they got more

 

Vanguards have one thing that commandos dont have, high impact AP. The other talents, if specced right, provide the exact same damage between the 2 AC assault specs. Commando actually coming out at a slightly higher overall ability damage due to higher aim, only ability where vanguards are really ahead is high impact bolt. Oh and they get a harder hitting strike, but you shouldnt waste gcds in melee anyways as a commando. Range is where you shine.

[Hudgaar]

I'm top dps in 90% of my warzones, though a bit fragile... but that seems fair.

 

Are you breaking 400k damage? No? Then the rest of your dps is garbage if you're top 90%

 

 

 

Then you're a bad leader. Assault commandos hold up quite well compared to most other classes.

Except juggs, marauders, assasins, sorcs and any sniper with a brain. I guess if you -like- running about doing mediocre damage to everyone and not pressuring a single person beyond the once in a blue with the hib plastic, Hib where they all magically crit. Hell even ops who get the jump on us, read, dont have tenacity/full resolve bar, just used concussion charge wreck our day.

 

 

 

Assault has always been the better pvp tree. The people who couldn't recognize it before 1.2 aren't going to recognize it now either, don't waste ur breath.

 

Errr thats why people who were gunnery pre 1.2 were doing over 400k damage a round while assault lagged behind any skilled player unless they were a vanguard.

 

 

 

Indeed.

 

 

 

Sounds more like your theory, instead of how it works in actuality. The next quote explains it.

 

 

 

This guy gets it. Assault has both burst and dot damage, while remaining mobile.

Oh I get it now, you -like- spending three ammo to do 1-1.5k dmg to get that hib. Gotcha.

 

 

 

This guy gets it too.

 

 

 

Commando =/= Gunnery. Use assault for pvp. Yes, we do get burst down really fast now, I'll give you that, but we are still capable of putting out a great deal of damage. As I said above, even dying much faster now than before 1.2, I'm still topping the damage charts in nearly every WZ. That does not sound broken to me. If I'm not being focused, the other team is doing something wrong, and they'll pay for it.

 

Yeah, as gunnery if I'm not being focused I can still do over 300k dmg as well. Key words being not being focused by any class/player that can fight their way through a wet piece of toilet tissue.

 

If you people were talking about utility or CC or defensive abilities I might be more inclined to agree with you, but most of this thread has been people complaining that Commando DPS is weak, which is simply false. Gunnery may or may not be viable in PVP, but Assault does good damage. L2P.

 

But still brings less damage than marauder, jugg, assassin, sniper, sorc anf less utility. Sure is awesome. I love your outlook though, seeing as you're at the bottom of the barrel you can only look up.

[dragonzay]

Vanguards have one thing that commandos dont have, high impact AP. The other talents, if specced right, provide the exact same damage between the 2 AC assault specs. Commando actually coming out at a slightly higher overall ability damage due to higher aim, only ability where vanguards are really ahead is high impact bolt. Oh and they get a harder hitting strike, but you shouldnt waste gcds in melee anyways as a commando. Range is where you shine.

 

focused impact + brutal impact + high friction bolt + 8% from armor set bonus

vs

high friction bolt (+ 8% from armor set bonus if you want to)

 

even with higher aim, damage, and surge

my friend vanguard can easily beat my dps

and always fighting for the top dps with a sent when raid

 

who has the big gun ??

oh yeah right vanguard is, with his blaster rifle

commando's cannon actually just a water cannon

[Pavixx]

Assault is not a better PvP spec just on the merit of better burst damage. It has far better survivability with plasma cell slow and mobility.

I see these gunnery commandos crying about sents and agents and assassins etc... I kite them into a hole they can't overcome. Slows don't build resolve so I can do it all day.

That's also our advantage over Vanguard Assault; I don't have to close to melee range to reset my HiB. This makes us far better at kiting and imo better at killing MDPS classes than vanguard. Vanguard is better vs ranged because he harasses within their comfort zone, interrupts casts, etc.

 

Anyone defending gunnery by saying "if I can just sit there and cast my rotation over and over (not a rotation, just priority queue) I do better DPS" just misses the point of PvP. Its about survival as much as damage output and you have to spec appropriately. If you take nothing but offensive abilities, you can't cry that you die too easily.

[Arzoo]

Tactics Vanguards are ironically really good at kiting actually. Pop hold the line and laugh as you hang just out of melee range zapping them over and over again while they scream about your hax because no one even knows what Hold the Line does.

[Nytak]

Tactics Vanguards are ironically really good at kiting actually. Pop hold the line and laugh as you hang just out of melee range zapping them over and over again while they scream about your hax because no one even knows what Hold the Line does.

 

Makes sense, it was the commando class that was broken, not the vanguard.

[Pavixx]

Tactics Vanguards are ironically really good at kiting actually. Pop hold the line and laugh as you hang just out of melee range zapping them over and over again while they scream about your hax because no one even knows what Hold the Line does.

Both classes have an easy time kiting with plasma cell slow... 0 cost CC is kinda op but it is what it is.

 

We do have the advantage that we aren't reliant on stockstrike to reset HiB. Remember you don't have to full cast FA to proc the HiB reset. If I'm kiting I'll let it tick once and cancel right away.

Plus we can cleanse tech/physical effects which is a huge plus.

 

On level ground in melee range, Vanguard is a tad better... but when I have high ground and I get to run a train w/ impunity, I can't say I'd make the trade

[MrHotter]

Both classes have an easy time kiting with plasma cell slow... 0 cost CC is kinda op but it is what it is.

 

We do have the advantage that we aren't reliant on stockstrike to reset HiB. Remember you don't have to full cast FA to proc the HiB reset. If I'm kiting I'll let it tick once and cancel right away.

Plus we can cleanse tech/physical effects which is a huge plus.

 

On level ground in melee range, Vanguard is a tad better... but when I have high ground and I get to run a train w/ impunity, I can't say I'd make the trade

 

Don't go bringing skilled player advice into a cry fest.

 

I play my commando as DPS when I don't feel like using more than 5 buttons. The person who thinks that playing a sniper/gunslinger is the same thing as grav round spamming needs to play more than one class.

 

If you do play any other class there should be times that you say to yourself 'I wish I could do X like my commando'. If not, then commando was not the class for you.