And sure Player> Class except when player skill is equal then Class >player. With rated Warzones you're going to see those types of people, where skill is equal or greater due to the competitive nature of rated anything we're going to see the group make ups that bring the most to the table and right now that just isn't any spec of commando. Surely we'll see a team with one commando in it make it big, but odds are its a whole lot help from their allies and they'll have their nemesis group that wont have a merc or commando. Luck comes into play a bit as well, but as commandos are currently built, skill wise, ability wise, talent wise, we bring nothing to the table that a scoundrel/operative or sage/sorcerer doesn't bring to the table better and with more tools. I guess I should build my case better by comparing abilities and tiers of talents. Maybe I'll do that now that I have a lot of time on my hands.

The best assault spec is to play vanguard.

Except that that same marauder has these things called roots and snares that it doesn't matter how much you "kite" he's going to catch you and you're -not- going to be able to do enough damage while running to kill him so its still a free kill.

I don't pve, only pvp, so I couldn't tell you.

Gunnery is -not- fine in pvp. Enjoy standing still and spamming grav round the two times it takes soemnoe to go hey, free kill and then kill you. Perhaps if you enjoy running back to battle more often then standing and fighting, gunnery may be the spec for you. Or if you enjoy being a gimped, non vanguard, powertech assault pyro. You might find enjoyment in the assault spec.

Nope those are tankasssin stats my friend.

Allow me to debate your points. Plenty of SS have been posted showing Commandos doing half decent dps. ( I say half decent becasue I haven't seen any break 500k dmg 70 k protection and 50k healing yet. Not a one.) That could be the fact that they're facing handicapped other teams. But, when it comes down to skilled play, I doubt any but the top tiers of commando will break 300 k. Now on to your multi point post. 1. I'm wearing mostly optimized BM gear and a pair of WH gear pieces. ( I pretty much gave up serious pvp. I still pvp mind you, but its as combat medic now, and I just can't find the enthusiasm I had for my grav round.) I have just over 16k health, no im not slotting for endurance. that doesnt help my heals too much. However I'm struggling to find that 400 power mark. Must be a full war hero gear thing. I beat the 70% crit bonus brians in at arou 74-75% so maybe I'm using -too much- surge. But crits are king at pvp due to burst, so maybe not. I still do sub par damage when compared with any class that can fire off a succession of instant activation abilities yes we have hib yes we have demo round/assault plastic, buuut what we dont have is access to those abilities all the time, nor any other instant all at once dmg ability. Sticky doesnt count as it requires time to set up in order to be counted as burst. Granted that time is spent going OMG LIGHTSABERS! NOT IN THE FACE! NOT IN THE FACE! So my gear was not the issue. 2. Line of sight is just as much the friend of the enemy as all it takes for them to dodge your charge up grav round is to sneak arounda pillar themselves especially healers who will just choose the opposite pillar and hug around it forcing you to run for three to four seconds just to get in range once more and usually into the open arms of a hungry jugg/mara/ sithassin. At least you fed the children. 3. You mention burst here and I wonder just how much you realizse your burst is worth without A. 5 gravity signatures. (thats 4.5 seconds to stack at minimum, in practice more) B.5 charged barrels ( 7.5 second stack minimum, again, in practice more.) C. Time spent waiting for sticky or AP to go boom. Burst? I guess you mean just firing that AP, that Demo round, and that Hib willy nilly, without the buffs/debuffs that make them at all worth while. ( And thats if one of your enemyes doesnt any of their numerous defensive cds or run los while you've been standing around celebrating your interruptable, pushbackable, [ yes its talented for less but it still is time spent] charge up abilities. Which might see you doing a buncha ones and twos, no yellow dmg what so ever, or the enemy suddenly going lol no 30% more hps, or lol heals, or lol shield, or lol invisible, or lol los. 4. Now, you say a commando killer... Thats what, every class but other commandos right? By the time you notice one of them " coming after you" its a split second too late as its usually A. force leap, force slow, force lightning, or any other number of abilities that either immediately get someone in your face, or B. snare you and is a sure sign that someone will be kicking you through death's door shortly. Yes you can play ring around the rosy with the sorc or merc brand of these people, even the snipers, but everything else is following your limping rear end around that pillar, poking you in the bum while you blow your whistle. 5. I will say your aoe is spot on, however that seems to be an assault spec only thing with the hail or bolts, seeing as hail of bolts I've seen has done a whopping 200 dmg a tic on some classes, i couldnt say which at this point and yes that is a special scenario, but it doesn't change the fact that for ammo cost its a terrible aoe. Then there is the no limit pulse cannon, that throws your hug the pillar out the window and if you're suddenly throwing lightning all about its a good bet you're suddenly target tasty # one. Especially as soon as they realize you're a commando, which is right away. 6. Again with the crowd control. Well concussive round isn't exactly spamable, Concussive charge unless talented is about as strong as a stiff breeze, even talented has a higher cd then force leap, aaand the coup de grace, usually fills more resolve than force leap. Stock strike adds resolve too when talented i might add. Try and drop a cryo grenade and if -if!- their resolve bar isnt full from some jergoff force pushing them for the luls, then you might get that concussive round off. once every two minutes that is. (or not at all without that instant cast buf. Also better hope theres no dots on them or some one isn't wearing a saftey helmet and "Helping" by breaking it early.) 7. Apparently my dps is reeeally really good if I get the chance to go through 8 GCDs plus time spent casting. Thats all well and good but I seem to notice that in the time it takes me to scream " I NEED AN ADULT!" I'm usually at less than half hp from a marauder. And by the time I've been able to squirt one or two tears I'm just waiting for them to throw the dirt on me... wait sorry to respawn. So in short. If you find yourself doing AMAZING! in a warzone. It could be you're doing lots of illegal spice and you're hallucinating it all. It could be all that friendship and rainbows from your team keeping idiot pugs you're fighting off you and letting you go through a dps rotation ( and look at their dps i bet its higher by a margin of 100k. Go on, look at it.) It could also be you're by yourself and both your team and theires are in need of special schooling to retread tires and not to play video games. Either way, congratulations, surely the near entirety of the commando forums, and the almost certain majority of competitive pvpers must be wrong, and you must be right. Sounds like the management at my work really. edit Know what -would- be cool though? Real Charged bolts A la megaman. HOLD DOW?N A TO CHARGE YOUR CANNON FOR A BIG BLAST! Is your charged barrel up to 5? ULTRA SHOT! go go mega buster. Or hell make grav round have a snare effect! You know gravity slows things down, heat signature could be heat exhaustion. there you go.

Mmm, and yet there have been weeks gone by with no word whatsoever. There have been plenty of well thought posts as to what could be changed, what should be changed and what has been done? Not a thing. Just waiting for my sub to end.

They wanted to shift damage coming from grav round yet they still require all damaging abilities use grav round. Sooo we'll still be grav rounding as much as possible to get those charges, procs, debuffs on the enemy or else we use a less effective level of our other damaging abilities. 1. change grav round to an on cd instant. or 2. make in non interruptable. (like master strike! except with less damage than master strike.) These would lead the way for: Longer time on gravity vortex, so if for some reason im not spamming grav round every 1.5 seconds. (intterupts, movement, being stunned, being pushed.) That debuff doesnt fall off in the time it takes me to get back into a worthwhile position, and cast that grav round.

but that would make too much sense!

As a commando I would like to encourage the use of less grav round in gunnery. Don't make it a bloody requirement to make three abilities at all worth anything, make it an instant ability on a CD, Give us a new abilitiy that also helps build what grav round builds that is not easily interruptable. Otherwise, grav round is still essential to close to every other attack ability that a gunnery commando has. I know what you're saying now. Herpaderp, go assault in pvp. If I wanted to be vanguards handicapped little brother I would have rolled vanguard. I rolled Commando to havea big gun, shoot big blaster bolts, for big damage. Apparently i chose incorrectly. Now I am relegated to shooting highly visible green beams to heal my allies, use abilities that have the same cast time and heal for less, and otherwise make a nuisance of myself by healing in warzones. Congratulations Bioware. You remade the paladin class in wow for all of 2006 to 2008. A healer who brings less to the table than other healers, and a laughable pvp dpser. Just a matter of waiting till my sub runs out now. Might see yall again in 6 months, who knows maybe by that time the withdrawls and the addiction will be over.

And again, while you're playing ring around the rosy using your dot to hit a marauder who is chasing you and -will- close that cap eventually, regardless of your skill at screwing pillars, herp derp two gap closers, increased run speed, abilities that add snares. You'll just be loloing away as your hammer shot ticks for 1k dmg over 6 seconds and wasting the time of both your team and yourself in any skilled wz. Great job, you have brought a big pile of I kited a mara for three seconds once or twice in my life cause his leap and choke were on cd and all I got was this lousy "I barely broke 300k dmg" t-shirt. And let me just say this, mister I do -***-ault pvp. Pst some screen shots, show it, show me the money shot. Its not hard in this day and age to show me just how much you dominate the warzone, hell make a video. And I guarantee that vid will be you A. You in a premade rolling pugs(easysauce) or B you in a pug vs pug with a lack of skilled pressure being cohesively applied by the other team, or C getting circled jerked on by the first marauder assassin jugg whatever with a snare duo. Pictures worth a thousand words friend. Post that money shot of you doing so great. Or better, make a sexy video of assault ownage against a competant team and post it, internet is famous for that stuff.

Out 2 min cd breaks snares, our 2 mind cd thats meant to be a dmg mitigation tool and not a *********** snare breaker. Here hammer shot more, thats sure to kill more enemies and be more useful to my WZ group then actually i dont know doing more thant 1k dmg over 6 or 8 seconds, which is done by any other class over one gcd. My opinion? To counter your opinion. You play against people who suck a lot of balls. Thats why you can "kite" maras, and hey that on ACTIVATION remove snare sjust removed a lot of your survivability. I'd be more tempted to use my fricken 1.5 min cd on tenacity then waste my 20% dmg reduction on a frikken snare. If shild is on cd CC, oh wait if CC is on CD eat. his prig or get choked. Our 0 cost 1 second gcd chance on snare makes up for their amazing damage, survivability, gap closing, their own snare that is a product of their dps and not an ability and not a 16% chance on hit.

Good to know I'll be the first person kicked out or a rated wz by my own team.

In other words Stop attacking that mara/sent for 6 whole seconds ( an eternity and death in pvp) and just let them do whatever they want. Not only must -you- stop. -everyone- must stop. Their healers must stop healing them(because if they dont guess what the dmg you did omg healed!), you must stop dpsing them Man sure wish i had an ability that just made people stop attacking me at all for even only 6 seconds. Why do they keep popping up in commando threads wth. Mainly because right now they're the class that we don't even have to bend over for, they're bloody uber mench and do it with out pants on!

Its not just about being able to survive and kite my friend. Though survival and the ability to kite is important, its also about the ability to do more, to provide pressure on healers through dps, to bring utility and peels to your own healers to help them respond better to being focused. To have more than just lolkitefest 2012 to survive a force user melee class who can and will close the gap with you and keep that gap closed due to roots >snares. If all you're bringing is kiting and survival thats not enough Sure you can spam hammer shot on someone hitting your healer, but remember you're spamming hammer shot, not an actual damaging ability, and not a set up ability for any real combo that allows you to lol moredps.

Are you breaking 400k damage? No? Then the rest of your dps is garbage if you're top 90% Except juggs, marauders, assasins, sorcs and any sniper with a brain. I guess if you -like- running about doing mediocre damage to everyone and not pressuring a single person beyond the once in a blue with the hib plastic, Hib where they all magically crit. Hell even ops who get the jump on us, read, dont have tenacity/full resolve bar, just used concussion charge wreck our day. Errr thats why people who were gunnery pre 1.2 were doing over 400k damage a round while assault lagged behind any skilled player unless they were a vanguard. Indeed. Oh I get it now, you -like- spending three ammo to do 1-1.5k dmg to get that hib. Gotcha. This guy gets it too. Yeah, as gunnery if I'm not being focused I can still do over 300k dmg as well. Key words being not being focused by any class/player that can fight their way through a wet piece of toilet tissue. But still brings less damage than marauder, jugg, assassin, sniper, sorc anf less utility. Sure is awesome. I love your outlook though, seeing as you're at the bottom of the barrel you can only look up.

If we're so overpowered compared to snipers roll a frakkin commando. I dare you. Oh and hey guess what what type of damage is grav round, is it kinetic, energy? Holy **** thats mitigated by armor. Oh it must be elemental or internal... thats it, that gravity burst happens -inside- your body. That negates armor. No, wait, thats the debuff grav round puts on you that helps negate your armor... Here let me go over this for you sniper, wtith my rudimentary knowledge of your class and see how you feel. Alright grav round time.,.. wait distracted... *** oh well charged bolts... he got to snipe me though.... -Now- its time for grav round holy **** he got up and lOSed, *** is that noise, oh well I'll go get him, hes back in cover, free snipe. Grav round time! Oh **** *** interrupted again... guess its time for charged bolts and a sticky, some of that got through his cover screen, thats cool, cause now its GRAV ROUND TIME! Wait, what the **** he moved again... damn him! This time, this time I'm in line of sight, there will be no escaping... *** free instant snipe, how in the hell... Whatever man time to bring the gravity vortex... *** interrupted again, oh **** its a marauder! (dead) Or how bout this scenario. **** yeah that marauder is 30 meters away its time for gRAV ROUND! OH **** FORCE LEAP! I better run... wait im snared how in the hell I cant move. Concussive charge! That'll knock him back... Holy **** I'm being choked! How is he faster than me! I have to kite, throw sticky, hide get a heal off, oh **** interupted! Well now its Gr- (dead)

True enough, Assault needs something more bursty, gunnery needs something more mobile, Combat medic... I dunno they do alright from what I've seen as long as they have the support. Gunnery and Assault support or no you'e going down quicker than a drunk teen on prom night.

Ah but you've a shield that refreshes when people hit you lasting for up to 30 seconds, a blade ward that you share with jugg/guardians, and a reverse "I like where this is goin" invisible time button.

Not if the buff happened in the form of a change to a commando/merc talent tree. ( arsenal and gunnery respectively.) Not saying I agree with a runnning full auto, but it may be a step in the right direction. Prehaps some sort of buff application, something to do with sticky bomb or even the 3 ammo mortar shot. I think a change to mortar shot, a bit of synergy with it in our gunnery/arsenal tree combined with some sort of buff that is added that is linked to mortar round that adds a running full auto into the mix would be nice. The high cost of ammo however is a bit prohibitive.

Sent here. Commandos are fine. Give Sents more ranged attacks pls.

We do have something similar already but it costs three ammo ( not sure on heat or mirror name.) Mortar shot or something. it does something like 1k dmg? The ammo cost is a tad high though(3 ammo), and it would be nice to see it synergize in our skill trees like at all. ( it doesn't)

Quote from snipers. This just in, lethality takes skill! Commandos still noobs who need to lern to play.

Okay heres why commandos use grav round a lot. I'll explain it for you... Grav round is required to go off in order to 1.proc curtain of fire. Grav round is the 2.armor debuff skill that allows 3.demo round to be even moderatly effective, and only seriously a threat when it and the previous grav round crit. Grav round is 4. required to build charged barrel, which increases the damage of HIB Grav round is 5. the only ability we have that has no cool down besides charged bolts, hail of bolts, hammer shot, med probe, and the cast time stances ( armor pen, plasma, and combat support.) Which of the above abilties provides significant damage? OMG why you grav round so much? Give us other abilities and we'll use them, hell we use the hell out of full auto and demo round and hib, but god forbid those are A. not fully charged, or B on cd. All three abilities require some sort of buff or debuff on the enemy, a minimum of one grav round and a curtain of fire proc, or three grav rounds then demo, then two more grav rounds then hib. Whooo a mighty change of rotation there. Except post patch 1.2.eff you©ommandos Grav round does less damage, demo round does less damage, and warzones are no longer a welcome place for any merc or commando bar healing. A job done better by anyone else.