LemmingLeader Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I'm not a hardcore PvPer. I do alot of both PvP and PvE when given the chance, because with PvP, player dynamics make things more interesting than any NPC ever will. Also, to let this tidbit out, I don't have a 50 toon yet, but I have alot. So I got a taste of all PvP under the level cap. Now, when playing with my Imperial toons and PvPing, it's very bad now. But PvP between the Republic and Imperials is practically nonexistent now. I won't get into the class balance thing because there's many threads about that already. But it's been really bad since 1.2, and it's been more noticeable as time went on. Today for example, after long play sessions, there were no matches at all between the Empire and Republic. Everything was Imperial vs Imperial, which is lame. I mean, even Voidstar is now reduced to same faction PvP. For whatever reasons there are out there, the Republic players are no longer obliging for PvP. Which, IMO, is a huge negative mark on PvP in general for SWTOR. You tout in this game Empire vs Republic. The briefings in the warzones are still the same, talking about the factions opposing each other. But what we end up with is the ridiculousness of only Imperials fighting Imperials, nothing else. I WANT to fight those player troopers, jedi, etc. But for whatever reasons, the Republic side is no longer fighting in PvP. Which is terribly bad for the game, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenai Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The only way to not have same faction PvP are three realms. It works. It can be easly implemented. Star Wars has plenty of lore to make a third faction, like Mandalorians, Hutt Cartell or some league for the betterment of aliens/robots. If some realm gets "too big" the two others play exclusivly against it. If it's even it alternates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemmingLeader Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 The only way to not have same faction PvP are three realms. It works. It can be easly implemented. Star Wars has plenty of lore to make a third faction, like Mandalorians, Hutt Cartell or some league for the betterment of aliens/robots. If some realm gets "too big" the two others play exclusivly against it. If it's even it alternates. The problem is that even if you have a 3rd faction, nobody is still going to fill those spots for PvP. I mean, if nobody is going to play and PvP as Republic, what good will having a 3rd faction do? We can't even get Republic to fight, much less a whole new set of players of a 3rd group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenai Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The problem is that even if you have a 3rd faction, nobody is still going to fill those spots for PvP. I mean, if nobody is going to play and PvP as Republic, what good will having a 3rd faction do? We can't even get Republic to fight, much less a whole new set of players of a 3rd group. 1. I recon you never played a MMO with three factions. It DOES help with imbalance. 2. I am on the republic side and we do almost PvP only. My biggest problem is, that after 2300 the games start to be Republic vs. Republic up to 1300 the next day, during the week. The problem with two factions is, that imbalance tend to lead to more imbalance. With three factions, if you do not like one, you still can join a third and do not have to go for the most populated one. Some people just do not like the goodie doing reps. A mischievious third one would be just what some imps love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blooddodo Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Rather than re-writing the entire game to include a third faction, how about they make cross-server queues? Seems much easier than what you propose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenai Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Rather than re-writing the entire game to include a third faction, how about they make cross-server queues? Seems much easier than what you propose... Leading to more same faction PvP... and this thread is about how exactly that sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregost Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The reason it's becoming single sided PvP is because all of the Repubs have given up trying. It's a steam roll every time I PvP, and I have talked with numerous other Republic players who claim it's pointless because it takes them months to complete a daily. The Empire continues to win every round, thus getting more commendations and also ensuring their dailies remain as dailies, thus getting even more commendations, which means they get the better gear faster, then come back and steam roll again, rinse and repeat. I've PvP'd every single day since 1.2, on average around 7 matches a night, and in that time I have only been in 8 games where the Republic actually won. My daily I got at 1.2 launch is still active. I'm not sure how much longer I'll be joining in the PvP charade because it's getting really old to be continually slaughtered every single game we play, then be /spit on and /laughed at by the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemmingLeader Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Rather than re-writing the entire game to include a third faction, how about they make cross-server queues? Seems much easier than what you propose... Cross-server PvP queues sound good on face value. But consider the already numerous threads on heavy Imperial activity compared to the Republic, and the problem will still be the same. ALOT more Imperial fighting a still small segment of Republic PvPers. The population problem will still be the same. Edit to add: It's not as much as a population problem. It's somehow getting the Republic guys to participate in PvP and sticking with it. That is the problem, but there's many causes for it. Edited April 28, 2012 by LemmingLeader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnol Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I like same faction matches. Much easier to talk smack in general than in /say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlamorel Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I understand the need for same-faction warzones has risen since the majority are playing Empire... but from a lore perspective, it makes little sense. Huttball I could understand because it wasn't really a warzone as much as it was a sports match. Now, though, with factions fighting each other in Void Star/Novarre coast, it just makes no sense. Even if you care nothing about the lore, the game is still entirely based on the Empire/Republic conflict. When I login, it says "The Empire and Republic are locked in warfare across the galaxy." Where, exactly, are these battles? Rather than giving more same-faction warzone options, they should limit it to Empire vs. Republic only, thus forcing a natural faction balance (those who want faster queue times will roll the minority faction). Even if they don't do this, they could find other natural ways to encourage faction balance. Instead, they are providing more incentive to roll the majority faction. I would prefer if they didn't have to give incentive to either side... but if they're going to do it, why give incentive to be a part of the majority faction? Sure, one could argue that they will lose subs that way because Imperials will just quit... but I'm sure there are people who will quit if they are forced to play Empire as well. Before 1.2 I was starting to see a faction balance emerge because many Imperials got tired of only playing Huttball all day. Now with 1.2 and more same-faction warzones, the imbalance is worse than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odahviin Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I'm not a hardcore PvPer. I do alot of both PvP and PvE when given the chance, because with PvP, player dynamics make things more interesting than any NPC ever will. Also, to let this tidbit out, I don't have a 50 toon yet, but I have alot. So I got a taste of all PvP under the level cap. Now, when playing with my Imperial toons and PvPing, it's very bad now. But PvP between the Republic and Imperials is practically nonexistent now. I won't get into the class balance thing because there's many threads about that already. But it's been really bad since 1.2, and it's been more noticeable as time went on. Today for example, after long play sessions, there were no matches at all between the Empire and Republic. Everything was Imperial vs Imperial, which is lame. I mean, even Voidstar is now reduced to same faction PvP. For whatever reasons there are out there, the Republic players are no longer obliging for PvP. Which, IMO, is a huge negative mark on PvP in general for SWTOR. You tout in this game Empire vs Republic. The briefings in the warzones are still the same, talking about the factions opposing each other. But what we end up with is the ridiculousness of only Imperials fighting Imperials, nothing else. I WANT to fight those player troopers, jedi, etc. But for whatever reasons, the Republic side is no longer fighting in PvP. Which is terribly bad for the game, IMO. Not sure why you posted this, i believe it's already being addressed in future patches ie cross server warzones. besides i like fighting my own faction it's variety (otherwise known as the spice of life) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) someday you guys will realize the failure lies with the dev team. We dont have a competent dev team open world or instanced pvp. Reason why we have so much same faction pvp is b/c of rep side bieng so poorly done. No wookies/rodians the storylines on rep side such bantha poo. Oh well cant fix a fail pvp system with fail devs when you have james ohlen thinking he has the best pvp team arenanet has the best pvp team hands down ive witnessed this today first hand... Edited April 28, 2012 by hargrave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimmer Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The only way to not have same faction PvP are three realms. It works. It can be easly implemented. Star Wars has plenty of lore to make a third faction, like Mandalorians, Hutt Cartell or some league for the betterment of aliens/robots. If some realm gets "too big" the two others play exclusivly against it. If it's even it alternates. empire vs rebels vs corruption! http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swempireatwar_foc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) The only way to not have same faction PvP are three realms. It works. It can be easly implemented. Star Wars has plenty of lore to make a third faction, like Mandalorians, Hutt Cartell or some league for the betterment of aliens/robots. If some realm gets "too big" the two others play exclusivly against it. If it's even it alternates. Easily implemented like doing a whole voiced over story for the classes of another faction. Oh don't forget you'd have to rename all the talent trees, do complete art concepts again. Yes... well thought out idea indeed. That it wouldn't even cgange anything in the instanced PvP in the game- beside making it even worse by splitting the players in three ways to make it even more impossible to field a single team even- is another point... Edited April 28, 2012 by Twor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Same faction Warzones because Bioware knows there is a population problem on Republic side. Instead of fixing the problem via server merges, they chose to do that. If you have same faction Warzones most of the time, you know what I am talking about. It's because the opposite faction have very few players while your faction has the majority. This game is a very good example of why factions are bad ideas in games. Especially when one side can be flooded with no real way to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sraom Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The only way to not have same faction PvP are three realms. It works. It can be easly implemented. Star Wars has plenty of lore to make a third faction, like Mandalorians, Hutt Cartell or some league for the betterment of aliens/robots. If some realm gets "too big" the two others play exclusivly against it. If it's even it alternates. Well, unfortunately this is a story driven star wars MMO main theme is always republic vs empire, Jedi vs Sith. A third faction would not be popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordresh Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Now, when playing with my Imperial toons and PvPing, it's very bad now. But PvP between the Republic and Imperials is practically nonexistent now. And if they hadn't changed it it would be nothing but Empire vs Empire as you say but also only Huttball. This is preferable. (Even though I like huttball.) The briefings in the warzones are still the same, talking about the factions opposing each other. No it isn't, when you play against the same faction it is clearly stated that you're on a training exercise at the start of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgiangrump Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Seriously... why the hell complain about same side WZ's? It's thank to those that imperials actually do get to play WZ's and not wait for 15-30 min for a WZ like the horde does in WoW. True that BW should do something about the conversation starting the fight of voidstar to a imp vs imp or rep vs rep WZ to talk about it being a simulation like the novare coast WZ. Just to cheer up the roleplaying players. Other than that i don't care. Does it truely matter that you're fighting sith/hunters instead of jedi/troopers? Technically they're the same classes!!!! it's mirror based for a freaking reason. PvP is PvP, ppl play it to fight PEOPLE not computers. Well other imperials are still people. Be glad BW is doing this, cause the faction imbalance you're facing is only caused due to most people wanting to be evil instead of the goodie goodie jedi and their allies cause that's what was overly fed to us in the movies, the evil side of the sith is a kinda new perspective to the SW universe (except for those who deepened themselves into the lore books) Also to the guy talking about 3 factions games, you're better not talking about DAoC. Cause the only reason hib vs alb vs mid worked was cause the game was NEVER instanciated. It was open world RvR even in the lower level battlegrounds. It made the game interesting cause you'd have a chance of mingling in a 3 way fight at times. However in instanciated PvP which has been the thrive of RPGs since the millenium change 3 realm PvP won't work, cause then you'd have even longer queues, cause instead of finding 2 full groups you'd need 3 full groups in an even further spread out populace cause it'd be in best cse scenario 33%-33%-33% instead of 50%-50%. In short, for those tl,dr : BW is doing a great job actually allowing same faction wz's to help suppress queue times for the overpopulated side. That side is created by the mentality of players, NO DEVELOPPED BALANCE WILL FIX THAT, because imp and rep classes are complete MIRRORS! The only thing same faction WZ's cause is ppl who get tired of losing either stop PvP or reroll to the other side, but guess what, that's caused by yes : the mentality of players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faeldawn Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 3 factions only works in open world rvr/battleground scenarios, SWTOR has no open world pvp/rvr, it's 100% warzones and 3 faction doesn't lend itself to warzone play style, the games would go on for ever. Same faction pvp sucks, but SWTOR pvp also sucks so it's about the best your ever going to get with the population imbalance the game currently has and will always have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I HATE fighting my own faction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 It is a failure. And one of the primary reasons is war zone style PvP. War zones are lazy style PvP and there is a huge segment of the population that actually thinks of games like Huttball as meaningful fulfilling PvP. BW is going to continue to feed the sugar treats to the monkey's hitting the lever in their cages. There is no sense of "faction" in this game. One of the reasons is there are no server forums. While I agree with their view that server forums take resource to moderate, server forums are where a sense of community and faction pride are developed; and this game has NONE. They are building PvP around the war zones/E-Sports. As long as the game continues in that direction you will never see a sense of faction vs. faction, it will always be guild vs. everyone else. You do not need a third faction to fix this problem. Hopefully their plan for open world PvP will be developed and implemented in the near future, THAT is where a sense of faction will come from. Until then, forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I like same faction matches. Much easier to talk smack in general than in /say. This^ Plus it lets you see who is good on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavensTerror Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Something I'd like to see and it would fix the pop issue too. Is mix faction wz, but it would ruin the cannon and ppl would QQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgiangrump Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I don't get it why people keep complaining about the same faction WZ's, they're there cause the population is imbalanced, this is not a balance issue! it's a mentality issue, and those who complain about the same faction WZ's are actually feeding the freaking imbalance, cause THEY ARE ON THE OVERPOPULATED SIDE!!!!!! Roll republic if you wanna fight the other faction, cause guess what, the reps do find other faction a lot. Imps don't cause like for every rep group there's like 4-5 imp groups, even on a population wise balanced server like ToFN. And i already wanna place a bet that a lot of these complaining people thought "But i don't wanna be the goodie goodie side" when they read my last small paragraph! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) It is a failure. And one of the primary reasons is war zone style PvP. War zones are lazy style PvP and there is a huge segment of the population that actually thinks of games like Huttball as meaningful fulfilling PvP. BW is going to continue to feed the sugar treats to the monkey's hitting the lever in their cages. There is no sense of "faction" in this game. One of the reasons is there are no server forums. While I agree with their view that server forums take resource to moderate, server forums are where a sense of community and faction pride are developed; and this game has NONE. They are building PvP around the war zones/E-Sports. As long as the game continues in that direction you will never see a sense of faction vs. faction, it will always be guild vs. everyone else. You do not need a third faction to fix this problem. Hopefully their plan for open world PvP will be developed and implemented in the near future, THAT is where a sense of faction will come from. Until then, forget about it. Lol, warzone style PvP is the only real PvP. World PvP is for casuals. Same faction PvP is only an issue for Roleplayers. EDIT: also, there are server forums, and that isnt the reason there is no feel of faction, hardly anyone even reads the forums. Edited April 28, 2012 by Khoraji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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