What Sent/Mar spec and change has contributed to them becoming op?

[Thordomr]

I keep hearing how sent/mar are op. Which spec? What is exactly op. I heard all the speculation on how the focus/rage spec would be op and it does do a lot of damage. I would like to hear what new thing that has changed that has caused sentinels to become op. Please list the spec and the change that has caused them to become op.

[Maxkardinal]

I keep hearing how sent/mar are op. Which spec? What is exactly op. I heard all the speculation on how the focus/rage spec would be op and it does do a lot of damage. I would like to hear what new thing that has changed that has caused sentinels to become op. Please list the spec and the change that has caused them to become op.

 

Its the one, which gives them aura "-99% brain efficency for all enemy human players in see radius and + 400% number exaggeration in form posts"

Edited April 27, 2012 by Maxkardinal

[MikaelNovasun]

As I have said in another thread, there have been no large changes to the Sentinel and Marauder classes. It is the changes to EXPERTISE that give Sentinels and Marauders the appearance of being OP, it now takes less time to kill opponents in PvP.

[MiaRB]

nothing has made sent/mars OP because they are not. what has changed is, expertise has been fixed, so people still running around with top tier PVE gear die quick, causing them to QQ on forums. other change is, more people playing mar/sents now, instead of silly dps gear tank specs. so, more true DPSers means teams with weak DPS tank specs get crushed. again, causing them to QQ on forums. Edited April 27, 2012 by MiaRB

[broganthomas]

There are a few factors...

 

Other DPS classes got nerfed, and are no where near as effective as mara/sents.(Hence balance issues)

They got a buff.

Great DPS + Best defensive CD's in the game.

 

I don't know why this is so hard to understand...

[cycao]

I dont think they are OP but then again people think I am OP. They have always been a strong class and when played correctly can be quite a challenge, if they have all there cooldowns at the ready.

 

I think what peoples issue is the expertise change not this "buff" that maras/sents got.

[Aetou]

As I have said in another thread, there have been no large changes to the Sentinel and Marauder classes. It is the changes to EXPERTISE that give Sentinels and Marauders the appearance of being OP, it now takes less time to kill opponents in PvP.

 

Sort of. I'd actually say that it is the changes to other classes, particularly Healers, that makes Sentinels and Marauders now relatively overpowered. They also toned down several other DPS classes (Scrappers, again) which once again opens the distance between Marauders and the rest. A slight buff combined with nerfs to the alternatives along with metagame changes is the reason Marauders are now so strong.

[Astarica]

Nothing, but people only remember the time 3 smash based guys smashed you instantly and never the time 2 of your smash guys smashed your opponent, because people attribute the latter as to their skills but the former to the game being unfair.

 

Due to the nature of abilities like smash you're going to just randomly die sometimes if you stand in the wrong place, but this applies to your enemies too.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Astarica

[broganthomas]

Sort of. I'd actually say that it is the changes to other classes, particularly Healers, that makes Sentinels and Marauders now relatively overpowered. They also toned down several other DPS classes (Scrappers, again) which once again opens the distance between Marauders and the rest. A slight buff combined with nerfs to the alternatives along with metagame changes is the reason Marauders are now so strong.

 

^ this PLUS best defensive CD's in the game. Their defensive abilities have not changed, this is a problem when other DPS classes aren't doing the same damage after the nerfs...

[Dacer]

I dont see where others are saying the other dps classes got nerfed hard - they didn't.

 

I still see Socs doing 400-500k damage in wzs, I still see BHs with 400-500k damage, i still see assassins with 350k+ damage.

 

the Range i'd give for the average of the numbers i see marauders putting up - 200-300k in Long games.

 

trooper/BH damage was not nerfed it was rebalanced - IE they can still put out the same dps but have to be more interactive in their game plays. other abilities were improved to make up for the 10%? loss to tracer damage.

 

i mean come on tankassassin can set up their force lighting to do 2k a tic at 30meters. Thats what a 6k ranged attack of force damage from a TANK.

 

----

ppl are now shifting away from marauder damage being OP to saying their defensive CD are OP.

 

Well okay, take away undying rage. But make cloak of pain last 30 seconds - none of this lasts 6 seconds and refreshes stuff and increase the damage reduction to 25%. Also give us more passive mitigation. Also give use a 4 second hard stun.

[jayfourc]

nothing has made sent/mars OP because they are not. what has changed is, expertise has been fixed, so people still running around with top tier PVE gear die quick, causing them to QQ on forums. other change is, more people playing mar/sents now, instead of silly dps gear tank specs. so, more true DPSers means teams with weak DPS tank specs get crushed. again, causing them to QQ on forums.

 

Ditto. If there were as many snipers/GSs as marauders/sents people not used to how pure DPS specs can actually kill stuff would be on here crying about snipers/GSs instead.

[XenonParsec]

So long as public perception remains as sent/mara being OP, then they are. These are the metrics BW uses to determine class balance. If the threshold of forum QQ reaches x, then a class is nerfed.

 

Now you know how sorc/sage felt. GL mara/sent, I estimate one more patch till the bat hits.

[prolifick]

People need to stop using the total damage done at the end of a warzone comparison because it is irrelevant.

 

Sure, a madness spec Sorceror can do 500K damage in a warzone all day long, however when it comes to all of the short fighting segments in the warzone, they are not going to kill anyone.

 

PvP is and always has been a game of burst and cooldowns. Classes that can consistently hit for 3-6K, without having to set it up, are far more valuable than that of a dot based, slow rolling damage type of class like a madness Sorceror.

 

The only other scenario, or class that can be viable without the burst, is one that has a multitude of damage reduction cooldowns, or other "get out of jail free" abilities such as the disappearing acts or full, or near full damage and ability resistance cooldowns that classes have.

 

If you dont have the burst, or any of what is listed above, you fall further down the totem pole depending on how little of each you have. Whether or not something was actually changed with Marauders or not really doesnt matter. What does matter is that we do know PVP changed when 1.2 came out, and the result has been classes without damage reduction cooldowns and/or any other out, have become much less viable.

 

Getting hit for 1/3 of your HP in a single hit is not balanced. Plain and simple, and you can save all the BS about ramp up time because I have a Marauder and an Assassin, and its a complete joke how easy it is to drop several classes. Even if the stars align and I actually get low, I always have my trusty ability to disappear into thin air, or resist every ability cast on me.

[LiveandDieinLA]

The change which has made sents stronger is the decrease in global TTK. While everyone dies faster the duration of Guarded by the force had remained unchanged, making it a better cd then it was in 1.1.

 

disclaimer:

I don't think Sents are OP. I think 99% of the playerbase is terrible and needs to not only l2p their class, but learn how to fight other classes. That being said I think they should knock a second off gbtf.

Edited April 29, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA

[Xerain]

There are a few factors...

 

Other DPS classes got nerfed, and are no where near as effective as mara/sents.(Hence balance issues)

They got a buff.

Great DPS + Best defensive CD's in the game.

 

I don't know why this is so hard to understand...

 

This did nothing for the thread nor did it help the OP understand your complaint. You listed nothing that got buffed, nothing that changed, nothing. He's asking for facts.

[Xerain]

Sort of. I'd actually say that it is the changes to other classes, particularly Healers, that makes Sentinels and Marauders now relatively overpowered. They also toned down several other DPS classes (Scrappers, again) which once again opens the distance between Marauders and the rest. A slight buff combined with nerfs to the alternatives along with metagame changes is the reason Marauders are now so strong.

 

Because healers can't face tank a few people and keep their whole party healed up decently now makes marauders that much more op'ed. Having sorc and merc healers doing this was quite stupid pre 1.2 and now that healers are actually in a decent spot, they're still pretty good and that's all three of them total, marauders are op'ed... K.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Moitteva
removed IC/"retarded"

[Xerain]

Maybe you guys should go and read george zoellers post on TTK from the 20th of this month, then go back and read through how expertise is currently working and maybe it will help you some.

[Bnol]

PVP Balance does not occur in a vacuum as each change to the game and to other classes can alter the balance. The main reason Marauders are more powerful is Time to Kill (TTK) has been reduced. There are multiple factors in 1.2 that contribute to a lowered TTK.

 

The first and arguably most important factor is the nerf of 2 of the 3 healing classes. This nerf both reduced healing output of those classes who continued to heal post 1.2, and reduced the healer population as many healers spec’d dps or decided to play an alt.

 

The second factor, one that is very often overlooked on these boards, is making the healing debuff uncleansable (and giving it to another AC), as any decent healer would cleanse that healing debuff, even if they were just removing it from themselves. Certainly, this change was needed because having it cleansable made it useless against competent players, but it still reduces TTK.

 

The next factor is gearing changes with a reduction in endurance on existing PVP gear and a slight increase in damage from expertise compared to pre 1.2. While these were slight changes, they combined with less healing being output (both because of healer nerfs and healing debuff) made TTK very short.

 

With TTK being reduced, short-term CDs become more powerful. If a fight lasts for 30 seconds the 5 seconds of damage reduction is only 1/6 of the duration of the fight, and is more manageable. If the fight lasts 15 seconds you are now looking at 1/3 of the fight. Now, I am not saying that TTK was cut in half in this patch, these were just easy examples. Not only are the short-term defensive CDs more powerful, but the short term offensive ones are more powerful as well, particularly Bloodthirst and Berserk.

 

I would not advocate for gutting of Marauders because it is not necessary. Only small changes need to be made in light of the existing TTK. Some suggestions:

• Reduce the 99% reduction to a 4 second duration (down from 5)
  
• Cloak of Pain duration is not refreshed by DoT effects (allowing people to actually stop attacking the Marauder to remove Cloak of Pain), and the maximum duration be 25 seconds (down from 30)
  
• Reduce Trauma effect duration on Deadly Throw to 10 seconds (down from 15). This would allow a 2 second gap for full healing potential and would require more focus on the part of the Marauder to keep the healing debuff on a target.
  

Edited April 29, 2012 by Bnol

[Diddley]

As I have said in another thread, there have been no large changes to the Sentinel and Marauder classes. It is the changes to EXPERTISE that give Sentinels and Marauders the appearance of being OP, it now takes less time to kill opponents in PvP.

 

People keep stating this ilke it means marauders aren't actually OP and shouldn't be changed. Marauders in the lower brackets without expertise, and those wearing recruit gear still tear it up. Inb4 l2p.

 

Besides, even if gear changes have led to OP performance, it still means a rebalance is needed because their is an imbalance in class ability in pvp because of it: OP is OP is OP, whatever the cause/rhyme/reason. Tough to understand, I'm sure.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Diddley

[Blloodbane]

There are a few factors...

 

Other DPS classes got nerfed, and are no where near as effective as mara/sents.(Hence balance issues)

They got a buff.

Great DPS + Best defensive CD's in the game.

 

I don't know why this is so hard to understand...

 

Other "DPS" classes.... Really did you just say that? Because AFAIK the ONLY pure DPS class out there is Mara/Sents...

 

The best defensive CD's? Some room for arguement there.. As Mara/Sents are Medium armor (oh yes I forget armor has ZERO effect in pvp).... The class's defenses are active defenses and have to be monitored an executed to be useful, many other classes defenses are naturally passive and always up... Contrary to popular belief they are a WARRIOR class and people never see the other around the corner either helping with the DPS or Healing them... So people see 2 sabers in their face and assume it has to be ALL them...

 

FYI, if you are in DPS tree, EVERYONE was buffed more significantly than healing was with expertise. I still see SO many new players coming in with Columi or Rakata and expecting they will do just fine and then get pwnt. So they complain either about the class that owned them or they complain about Expertise..

[ZDProletariat]

Other "DPS" classes.... Really did you just say that? Because AFAIK the ONLY pure DPS class out there is Mara/Sents...

 

The best defensive CD's? Some room for arguement there.. As Mara/Sents are Medium armor (oh yes I forget armor has ZERO effect in pvp).... The class's defenses are active defenses and have to be monitored an executed to be useful, many other classes defenses are naturally passive and always up..

 

hahahahahaha. oh man you crack me. That was true humor right there.

[Blloodbane]

People keep stating this ilke it means marauders aren't actually OP and shouldn't be changed. Marauders in the lower brackets without expertise, and those wearing recruit gear still tear it up. Inb4 l2p.

 

Besides, even if gear changes have led to OP performance, it still means a rebalance is needed because their is an imbalance in class ability in pvp because of it: OP is OP is OP, whatever the cause/rhyme/reason. Tough to understand, I'm sure.

 

I call complete Shenanigans on this... You are trying to tell the PVP community, that a Mara/Sent with little to none expertise tears up people in pvp.

 

ROTFLOL

 

In b4 "I heard from a friend or play a mara/sent so I know its OP" (see how easy that is?)

[Diddley]

I call complete Shenanigans on this... You are trying to tell the PVP community, that a Mara/Sent with little to none expertise tears up people in pvp.

 

No one has expertise pre-50, so yeah. Do you not understand that?

[AKfourtyseven]

Damage has gone up, but their defensive cooldowns remained unchanged. The end result is an increase in their effective survivability, which was already top tier.

 

Everyone else now dies faster, kills faster, except for them. They live just as long, while dealing more damage. So essentially, it was the fact that nothing was changed that now makes things appear "off".

[Blloodbane]

hahahahahaha. oh man you crack me. That was true humor right there.

 

actually this is true humor...

 

Actually, it's:

sent vs sniper = might lost on a specific map where levels give them an incredible advantage against melee if they stay in cover the entire time because if they leave cover for a split second they will be jumped on

but if they are on the other maps it's:

sent vs sniper = win

 

You should destroy Sents/Mara's with your sniper, the good ones do me for sure, L2P, thank you have a nice day... From you other posting it seems you are more PVE oriented than PVP, which probably answers why you think they are so OP.