dps tanks > then pure dps

[Vase]

its simple tank dps is on par or higher then regular dps on equal geared War Hero level. Why bother be DPS when I got a ton of tools to defend on top of ubar DPS as a tank.

[AngryBuddhist]

The last boost to the pure DPS class of gunslinger helped a bit, but a tank/dps hybrid class like Shadow will still give you better overall performance in a WZ. (not every time but on average over a lot of games).

 

Sure a GS can occasionally run up a ton of kills and medals, but just as often they run into 5 tank comps that will shred them. and lock them down the entire WZ.

[Proteus]

Either a lie, or sheer ignorance. As a shadow tank, max DPS, 1v1 is around 725DPS. As a balance shadow (DPS), its 1250DPS. Numbers don't lie!

[Rizael]

its simple tank dps is on par or higher then regular dps on equal geared War Hero level. Why bother be DPS when I got a ton of tools to defend on top of ubar DPS as a tank.

 

the > sign means "greater than" no need to add another "then" but fixing the english is another thing. Now for "serious" things. Sins damage reduction for entering dark charge is 5% less damage... on melee abilities and since the tree focus' mainly on force abilities this does not affect them. I am also assuming you are talking about warzones only for higher damage numbers at the games end, simply put this is a combination between their survivability (being able to live longer) and aoe damage caused by wither. Their single target damage is horrible and drawn out, don't put much faith into the "damage done" category as there are more factors involved than are being advertised.

 

*Sin used as an example, but pretty much tank dps has to do more with how much they live than how much they hit for, scroll over the damage done section and look at their "biggest hit" which will usually be around 2.5-3k.

[AMKSED]

Either a lie, or sheer ignorance. As a shadow tank, max DPS, 1v1 is around 725DPS. As a balance shadow (DPS), its 1250DPS. Numbers don't lie!

 

750 dps? LOL

I find that hard to believe when my Double Strike nearly hits 1-1.5k per hit x 2.

[Rhyn]

Maybe if they fixed mitigation we wouldn't have such an issue.

[gwrtheyn]

its simple tank dps is on par or higher then regular dps on equal geared War Hero level. Why bother be DPS when I got a ton of tools to defend on top of ubar DPS as a tank.

 

got a ton of tools to defend would ba a mara,most tanks hav 1-2 cds,not 4+ like maras

[Caelrie]

This simply isn't true. A "DPS tank" has significantly lower DPS than someone playing a real DPS spec.

 

got a ton of tools to defend would ba a mara,most tanks hav 1-2 cds,not 4+ like maras

 

And this actually IS true. Maras have more defensive CDs than any tank.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Caelrie

[Proteus]

Total bullcrap. Try actually PARSING logs, instead of watching numbers flashing across the screen. If I do nothing but DS, I can crack maybe 700dps against the training dummy.. Double strike is not the same on each proc. Hits are averaging about 500-1k, with the first hit higher than the second. A crit might be 1.2k. 1-1.5k without critting? nonsense!

 

750 dps? LOL

I find that hard to believe when my Double Strike nearly hits 1-1.5k per hit x 2.

[cashogy]

dps numbers you get from target dummies and combat logs mean nothing in PvP

[Proteus]

dps numbers you get from target dummies and combat logs mean nothing in PvP

 

WRONG, they provide a consistent and accurate way to compare classes and specs. Combat logs against a consistent target are the ONLY way to get accurate information.

[Derian]

dps numbers you get from target dummies and combat logs mean nothing in PvP

 

QFT, in immortal words. "Brick no hit back."

[Derian]

WRONG, they provide a consistent and accurate way to compare classes and specs. Combat logs against a consistent target are the ONLY way to get accurate information.

 

No they don't. So you're saying they're accurate whenh comparing melee DPS to ranged DPS when the dummy just sits there?

 

No melee has 100% uptime like it would against a target dummy.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Derian

[Proteus]

Precisely. So, the target dummy will give the max theoretical DPS, assuming optimal rotation. That number works out to around 725DPS for my shadow tank in DPS gear. When I respec as balance, again, in that gear, DPS goes up to 1250. When I use my 50 sent (in recruit gear), I hit 1400+ DPS. Against the same, single target. So, what does this tell us?

 

This tells us that Shadow/Assassin DPS, in tank mode is MUCH lower than in DPS mode. We are trading a LOT of DPS for better armor and extra utilitiy. It also tells us that Sents are way overpowered, as a DPS class that wears has better armor, and good utility vs a DPS Shadow.

 

Are any of these numbers real world? No, because in a chaotic match, you're rarely going to get 1v1 fights that can be easily parsed. But, they ARE consistent and comparable across classes, and thats what really matters here.

 

No they don't. So you're saying they're accurate whenh comparing melee DPS to ranged DPS when the dummy just sits there?

 

No melee has 100% uptime like it would against a target dummy.

[oPURT]

No they don't. So you're saying they're accurate whenh comparing melee DPS to ranged DPS when the dummy just sits there?

 

No melee has 100% uptime like it would against a target dummy.

 

Duh, no kidding brainiac. But the dummy is the only way to get an accurate number on potential max DPS, which is what we are all going for. Obviously a real world situation will provide completely different numbers.

[JMESUN]

yeah for change Edited April 29, 2012 by JMESUN

[Mayams]

I rolled a VG and spec'd fully into the Shield (tanking) tree. I wanted to tank both in PvE and PvP. In PvP I wanted to keep the healers up and the DPS who dove in and started waylaying a group by putting Gaurd on them and taunting as well as using interrupts and CC to lock down their healers. DPS was something I accepted that I couldn't really pull off to great effect. Then 1.2 hit, I jumped in a WZ and got smeared across a few times. My gear wasn't top of the line, mostly Champ stuff converted over to Recruit, few pieces of BM, the difference felt huge though. So I spec'd and geared DPS. I didn't feel like a tank anymore though I do still run ion cell so I can Gaurd and I do concern myself mainly with taunting and interrupting still. I may not be able to stand there and soak up DPS from the other team that they should probably be putting toward other targets but at least I can lay down some damage on my quick ride to the spawn point now when focus fired.

 

They screwed around with expertise or whatever so that players could put out more D per S. Give me a more solid footing in mitigation and I'll happily lay down my Assault spec and Eliminator set and pick my Shield spec and Supercommando back up. That's what I really wanted to be doing in the first place.

 

I'm sure someone will show up proclaiming that damage recieved hardly any boost and mitigation is right where it should be. They'll have calculus sine wave graphs or whatever the hell. It's real simple though, I felt somewhat tank like before, I feel less so now. My armor and shield numbers effected only so much incoming damage to begin with. My armor feels even less effective now and I can't heal but I do still have a gun.

 

However if you are implying that I can still absorb damage like I felt I did in Shield spec prior to the expertise change and now pump out DPS on par with a DPS class, well, I don't know how to respond to that without sounding insulting so I'll just say that you are mispercieving that.

[Bbizzle]

its simple tank dps is on par or higher then regular dps on equal geared War Hero level. Why bother be DPS when I got a ton of tools to defend on top of ubar DPS as a tank.

 

If a tank opts to go for max damage, he isnt tanking anything. Pyro powertechs for example are one of the squishiest AC's in the game.

[Dmasterr]

I rolled a VG and spec'd fully into the Shield (tanking) tree. I wanted to tank both in PvE and PvP. In PvP I wanted to keep the healers up and the DPS who dove in and started waylaying a group by putting Gaurd on them and taunting as well as using interrupts and CC to lock down their healers. DPS was something I accepted that I couldn't really pull off to great effect. Then 1.2 hit, I jumped in a WZ and got smeared across a few times. My gear wasn't top of the line, mostly Champ stuff converted over to Recruit, few pieces of BM, the difference felt huge though. So I spec'd and geared DPS. I didn't feel like a tank anymore though I do still run ion cell so I can Gaurd and I do concern myself mainly with taunting and interrupting still. I may not be able to stand there and soak up DPS from the other team that they should probably be putting toward other targets but at least I can lay down some damage on my quick ride to the spawn point now when focus fired.

 

They screwed around with expertise or whatever so that players could put out more D per S. Give me a more solid footing in mitigation and I'll happily lay down my Assault spec and Eliminator set and pick my Shield spec and Supercommando back up. That's what I really wanted to be doing in the first place.

 

I'm sure someone will show up proclaiming that damage recieved hardly any boost and mitigation is right where it should be. They'll have calculus sine wave graphs or whatever the hell. It's real simple though, I felt somewhat tank like before, I feel less so now. My armor and shield numbers effected only so much incoming damage to begin with. My armor feels even less effective now and I can't heal but I do still have a gun.

 

However if you are implying that I can still absorb damage like I felt I did in Shield spec prior to the expertise change and now pump out DPS on par with a DPS class, well, I don't know how to respond to that without sounding insulting so I'll just say that you are mispercieving that.

Your gear got outdated, that is all. Get War hero tank gear and enjoy being a tank again.

 

p.s. You would have felt the same in full centurion gear vs battlemaster. The difference is even bigger now between recruit and war hero than in was then between centurion and BM.

[Seriasx]

Total bullcrap. Try actually PARSING logs, instead of watching numbers flashing across the screen. If I do nothing but DS, I can crack maybe 700dps against the training dummy.. Double strike is not the same on each proc. Hits are averaging about 500-1k, with the first hit higher than the second. A crit might be 1.2k. 1-1.5k without critting? nonsense!

 

says the guy who goes off >30s parses or using examples of people who cant press buttons.

[Mayams]

Your gear got outdated, that is all. Get War hero tank gear and enjoy being a tank again.

 

p.s. You would have felt the same in full centurion gear vs battlemaster. The difference is even bigger now between recruit and war hero than in was then between centurion and BM.

 

Yes, and since 1.2 release my gear has been significantly upgraded to essentially full BM eliminators set. Honestly WH seems like such a colossal grind I'm not even sure I want to attempt it in the current design state of WZs. I typically can only squeeze an hour or two of WZs a night in. Honestly I'm thinking of trying to grind out a healthy stack of credits, getting the orange set and then concerning myself only with upgrading my mods as I'm able (although that will likely involve grinding out the WH gear for the mods anyhow). Thinking that it might give me a more stable footing even with room still to improve my stats. If the difference between BM and WH is that great though I have to question the wisdom of that design decision as well to be honest.

 

My guild is essentially purely focused on PvP and a massive exodus has already taken place for greener pastures. We had bet all the chips on ranked WZs and had our fingers crossed for 8 man premades in the near future. PuGs are of course hit or miss but, especially considering the lack of the two above features lacking, the road is just that much harder to travel.

 

I will say this though, if the healer you are propping up understands that keeping you up is keeping himself up and that you are the one to dive into a knot of the opposing force and break cap attempts and debuff them for a quicker purging of the node then being a PvP tank, pre or post changes, still feels like you are filling an important role. Especially in PuGs one may find these instances few and far between though. Hence many go the route of DPS now, gotta get in where you fit in and judge where you can make the most contribution.

[Derian]

Duh, no kidding brainiac. But the dummy is the only way to get an accurate number on potential max DPS, which is what we are all going for. Obviously a real world situation will provide completely different numbers.

 

 

What's the point of potential max DPS if it will never be a reality?

[Azrienov]

In pvp, tankasins are king. Being able to shrug off any damage that comes through armor first, and having a move that renders them immune to tech and force? Toss in the chase abilities, and you have a class that in hybrid mode makes georg zoeller cry because he hasn't a clue how to fix it without losing more subs.

[Mathelia]

750 dps? LOL

I find that hard to believe when my Double Strike nearly hits 1-1.5k per hit x 2.

 

if you're not specced into adjudication that is not possible with double strike.. stop lying. post a screen if you hit that much. and dont pop adrenals etc....

[Xinika]

750 dps? LOL

I find that hard to believe when my Double Strike nearly hits 1-1.5k per hit x 2.

 

I know you're trying to be this White Knight in shining armour for nerfs but my god, stop lying.