To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

[KiranK]

To the biased Op that cries for a nerf because he can't adapt to the new system:

 

LoL. I'm neither a Sent/Mara nor a Shadow/Assassin and I don't have a problem with either class, nor Undying Rage. It's a whole 5 seconds on a class that is forced to be in the thick of the fight, thus being the most vulnerable. Sorry if you think they should leap in and die instantly. You're wrong.

[fungihoujo]

maybe a socs bubble should cost them 10% health every time they cast it.

 

Let's see....

 

Consumption is 15% health, for 8% force. 8% of 600 is 48 force. 15% of 20000 (around the health a full WH anything has) is 3000 health. Bubble blocks around 4k damage in WH gear. Bubble costs 65 force.

 

It actually costs closer to 20% of a sorc's health to cast static barrier- I agree with you, consumption should regen more force and cost less health. To be in line with your suggestion- it should cost 10% health to consumption, and regen 11% force- which seems pretty reasonable to me.

[KiranK]

Let's see....

 

Consumption is 15% health, for 8% force. 8% of 600 is 48 force. 15% of 20000 (around the health a full WH anything has) is 3000 health. Bubble blocks around 4k damage in WH gear. Bubble costs 65 force.

 

It actually costs closer to 20% of a sorc's health to cast static barrier- I agree with you, consumption should regen more force and cost less health. To be in line with your suggestion- it should cost 10% health to consumption, and regen 11% force- which seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

Bad math is bad. A sorc can cast a bubble easily without losing a single hp. The fact that the possibility exists for them to sacrifice HP for a bubble means next to nothing. You're grasping at straws here. Your argument is nothing but surface. There is no way to cast Undying Rage without sacrificing health. You can bubble without losing health easily and then some. L2Argue.

[fungihoujo]

To the biased Op that cries for a nerf because he can't adapt to the new system:

 

LoL. I'm neither a Sent/Mara nor a Shadow/Assassin and I don't have a problem with either class, nor Undying Rage. It's a whole 5 seconds on a class that is forced to be in the thick of the fight, thus being the most vulnerable. Sorry if you think they should leap in and die instantly. You're wrong.

 

Why not? When they can leap anyone and kill the instantly, it makes sense they should die if they're stupid and charge into a group rather than pick off the healer in the back. People maybe wouldn't cluster in groups if aoe hadn't been so heavily nerfed/wasn't so weak to begin with and gave people a reason to not cluster- but with death from above hitting like a feather, chain lightning gone from all decent sorc builds, forcequake taking a quarter of your force and doing a whopping 300 damage per tick, sniper aoe taking half a minute to apply- the only good aoe is the instants...

 

Ironic that the hardest hitting aoe ability is smash- given to the class with the highest single target damage.

 

 

Which of course isn't an OP class, no, not at all- best of everything in the game doesn't make a class OP. Having a squishy mage class which is the worst burst and worst aoe in the game make sense too- all hallmarks of a company that knows what they're doing.

[Xinika]

Bad math is bad. A sorc can cast a bubble easily without losing a single hp. The fact that the possibility exists for them to sacrifice HP for a bubble means next to nothing. You're grasping at straws here. Your argument is nothing but surface. There is no way to cast Undying Rage without sacrificing health. You can bubble without losing health easily and then some. L2Argue.

 

This argument is so lame it's incredible people still use it. Undying Rage health cost is COMPLETELY negated when the Mara uses it when they have a couple 100 health.

 

Please, if you or anyone else wishes to defend such a broken ability then use something else.

Please.

[fungihoujo]

Bad math is bad. A sorc can cast a bubble easily without losing a single hp. The fact that the possibility exists for them to sacrifice HP for a bubble means next to nothing. You're grasping at straws here. Your argument is nothing but surface. There is no way to cast Undying Rage without sacrificing health. You can bubble without losing health easily and then some. L2Argue.

 

Actually, the math was entirely correct- none of those numbers were wrong. You don't have to pay for the bubble when you cast it- but you'll have to pay for it eventually, that, or go OoF fast.

 

And you're not grasping at straws by defending someone saying a static barrier- a defensive shield for 4k tops on a class with zero defensive CDs- needs to suffer the same penalty as a total immunity to damage on a class with multiple defensive CDs, that can be kept up for well over 50% of the time they're fighting, and has a trauma debuff, self heals when damaging, best damage/pressure in the game, total mobility as only two abilities require the marauder to stand still.

 

Opposed to a class that loses health in order to regen resource in order to heal, that has to channel or cast almost everything, has zero defensive CDs, can't remove trauma debuff, has extremely low burst- relies on dots which do in half a minute what a marauder dot can do in ten seconds- and then has nothing outside the dots whereas a marauder has multiple hard hitting abilities in their dot tree.

 

Yeah, sure, I'm the one grasping at straws- not you in your pitiful attempt to justify keeping your extremely OP class with it's godlike status until everyone's unsubbed or rolled one.

 

I have, indeed, rolled a marauder and got it up there- it's a joke how easy it is to shut down and destroy anything in my path as a marauder- if I didn't realize that making one class the only class worth playing and thus making everyone who doesn't want to play it quit, and thus killing the game... I might even enjoy it. But it'll be short lived- either BW sees sense and balances the classes... or more likely, BW doesn't, and the game is free to play by Christmas.

 

But, I'm sure I'm wrong- and you're right and we won't see after the free month is up a massive drop in subs. Nope, everything's fine when one class is worth three others.

[Kaarsa]

This argument is so lame it's incredible people still use it. Undying Rage health cost is COMPLETELY negated when the Mara uses it when they have a couple 100 health.

 

Please, if you or anyone else wishes to defend such a broken ability then use something else.

Please.

 

So, according to your logic, fact that mara/sent can use this skill only when very low, so it is predictable and cannot be used to negate some predictable burst from enemy (like for example force shroud can be) or negate focus fire in moment chosen by the user, or to walk through without any drawback whatsoever is not a negative aspect of this skill?

 

It cost 50% health, so it can be used only when low on hp, not in moment that could be better (when you see project animation from shadow who popped CDs and relic/adrenal for example). If health cost is neglible, why not ask BW to remove it? THEN it would be an OP ability;)

[Rmog]

This one is aimed at all the short-sighted Marauders/Sents that are fearful of a nerf, as that would mean they'd need to re-roll again (maybe to a PT as they seem to be doing quite well)

 

I've always said marauder/sent damage is fine, i want no changes to that, they are meant to dish out some hurt.....

What they do need is to lose the Undying rage/Guarded by the force as it is far, far too OP.

 

This is where all the biased Sents/Maras seem to completely miss the point, and they may say that "oh but thats been in the game since the start"......To this i say, yes it has, and it never should have been in the first place, it has no business being on any class, let alone a DPS one, but aside from that, the recent changes to expertise drastically lowering the TTK make this ability even more out of control.

5 seconds of complete damage immunity is stupid, especially given the amount of damage being thrown out now. You say the ability hasnt been changed, and maybe it hasnt theoretically, but its effectiveness has certainly increased with recent changes.

 

 

We have no sprint, one jump to target and an aoe fear. That's it! Learn to kite that why we have those cool downs.

[Xerain]

Why not? When they can leap anyone and kill the instantly, it makes sense they should die if they're stupid and charge into a group rather than pick off the healer in the back. People maybe wouldn't cluster in groups if aoe hadn't been so heavily nerfed/wasn't so weak to begin with and gave people a reason to not cluster- but with death from above hitting like a feather, chain lightning gone from all decent sorc builds, forcequake taking a quarter of your force and doing a whopping 300 damage per tick, sniper aoe taking half a minute to apply- the only good aoe is the instants...

 

Ironic that the hardest hitting aoe ability is smash- given to the class with the highest single target damage.

 

 

Which of course isn't an OP class, no, not at all- best of everything in the game doesn't make a class OP. Having a squishy mage class which is the worst burst and worst aoe in the game make sense too- all hallmarks of a company that knows what they're doing.

 

Lol i can just leap to someone and they die instantly?!?!?! WTB insta gib leaps!!!!

 

Ironic that the hardest hitting AOE ability is all setup and as a sage you can cleanse force crush off of you and juggs get it too. And there's no proof that marauders are the highest single target dps in the game so please stop spreading false information.

 

Oh also if they have the biggest aoe ability they don't have the best single target DPS. Those are two different specs.

[KalTorrak]

Because they get stealth? Stealth is an amazing thing to have in WZs, don't be silly.

 

Er so do Sins / shadows and they get gap closers, plus knockbacks AND sprints, mara's can go invis also plus have gap closers, have you even seen smuggler / imp op invis? Its a joke, can see them a mile away.

[criminalheretic]

Let me ask you Maras/Sent something, do you pop Guarded/Undying at 80% hp? right, you wait until you're very low on hp to achieve maximum damage reduction for its duration.

Now, in the time it took us to force you into that low hp range that you had to pop Guarded/Undying, did you stand there admiring the view? right you were beating the hell out of me with your various high damage hitting attacks as well you should.

 

You guys keep saying to CC you when you pop Guarded/Undying but the only problem with that argument is that I'll be dead or near death by the time you actually were considering using it. Somehow I'm supposed to have survived that long in the fight without filling your resolve bar? yeah right, unless you're a terrible Mara/Sent that will never happen. If I don't use stuns, knockbacks, push, or other abilities to keep you off me I don't stand a chance. There's no other defensive ability that will allow me to live through your burst damage without adding to your resolve, aside from roots which most classes aside from slinger/snipers don't have.

 

Let's assume for the sake of argument that somehow I'm still alive and your resolve bar isn't full yet, and I have managed to bring your hp down and force you to pop Undying, I CC you when you use it, what's to keep you from popping your CC break, AFTER you pop undying? right you keep leaving that small detail out, that you have a CC break ability. Then you proceed to finish me off doing full damage while attacks hit you for 1-2 damage.

 

Undying/Guarded is the problem, no class should be able to reduce incoming damage by that much without penalty. Losing 50% of your already low hp isn't a penalty, it just guarantees you will stay alive for another 6 seconds to finish off the other player. It's the Paladin bubble all over again only Blizzard had the sense to reduce your damage by 50% when it's up. You have no such limitations.

 

Trust me, if we are at a point in the fight where we would even consider 'Guarded BTF' we have already used our CC break. Which is kind of weird on both sides of the argument, everyone likes to argue from a perspective where they have burned all their CD's, but their opponent has all of them left.

[Dagyo]

maybe a socs bubble should cost them 10% health every time they cast it.

 

Sorc bubbles don't absorb a full hit at 50. What the heck are you comparing damage immunity to absorb for?

[Xerain]

Sorc bubbles don't absorb a full hit at 50. What the heck are you comparing damage immunity to absorb for?

 

Are you vastly undergeared?! they do too.

[Daakal]

So after they change this class, what the next class to QQ about? I play a commando and think there is nothing wrong with the sent/madam class.

[alexsamma]

Are you vastly undergeared?! they do too.

 

Full battlemaster Sage and I am here to tell you that a single attack will destroy the bubble, and if it is a crit you'll still take damage.

[Vudu]

Are you vastly undergeared?! they do too.

 

It absorbs 4,000, right? Almost every class that has some dps can hit for over 4,000. Gunslinger, sab charge plus speed shot (if sab doesn't bust it). Guardian, sweep (easy 4K damage). Shadow, rocks (can hit for over 4K with a double crit). That's against full battlemaster gear from full battlemaster gear. With war hero, it only goes higher.

 

Bubble can be busted by one attack from most classes.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Vudu

[Vudu]

Oh yeah, funny that two of the classes I mentioned are actually tank classes that bust that bubble in one hit.

[Xerain]

It absorbs 4,000, right? Almost every class that has some dps can hit for over 4,000. Gunslinger, sab charge plus speed shot (if sab doesn't bust it). Guardian, sweep (easy 4K damage). Shadow, rocks (can hit for over 4K with a double crit). That's against full battlemaster gear from full battlemaster gear. With war hero, it only goes higher.

 

Bubble can be busted by one attack from most classes.

 

Every attack does 4k damage?

[Vudu]

Every attack does 4k damage?

 

Not every attack, but that wasn't the question or the reply. The statement was "one attack busts the bubble". I listed one attack from each of those classes that I play.

 

Also, 2 grenades will easily do 4K damage in 3 seconds. Speed shot will break it down in 2 seconds. Sweep will go through it and cause damage in one attack.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Vudu

[Xerain]

Not every attack, but that wasn't the question or the reply. The statement was "one attack busts the bubble". I listed one attack from each of those classes that I play.

 

One attack CAN bust the bubble, doesn't mean it will, so it has to be a very hard hitting attack to one shot which none are spammable so i don't see the complaint here.

[darksidechemist]

Good, another QQ thread about sent/mara being OP. 40 of those isn't nearly enough.....

[Vudu]

One attack CAN bust the bubble, doesn't mean it will, so it has to be a very hard hitting attack to one shot which none are spammable so i don't see the complaint here.

 

Grenades are fairly spammable at one every three seconds. Rocks are spammable if doubl;e strike crits finishing the cooldown. Sweep isn't spammable, but you can bet other hard hitting moves are coming right behind it at a quick rate. Also, sweep is pretty much a guaranteed bubble buster.

[Vudu]

Anyway, point being, in comparison, 5 seconds of 99% reduction far outweighs a 4K bubble. But, I'm not complaining. I don't play sentinel nor sage and really don't have much of a problem with either. I'm just sharing my experience.

[Vudu]

On further note, I will guard a good healer every time. But, I'll guard a dps over a bad healer every time. If that healer doesn't heal the guard (me) I won't guard him.

 

So, maybe, those sentinels/marauders people are having such a hard time with, are guarded?

Edited April 28, 2012 by Vudu

[Xerain]

Grenades are fairly spammable at one every three seconds. Rocks are spammable if doubl;e strike crits finishing the cooldown. Sweep isn't spammable, but you can bet other hard hitting moves are coming right behind it at a quick rate. Also, sweep is pretty much a guaranteed bubble buster.

 

the bubble can be put up like what 3 times in a fight if you get lucky? I don't know how many times i've ran up to a sorc/sage hit them twice, got knocked back, used my leap to get back on them for the bubble to pop and then they reapplied it right away. Boom right there they get to absorb 8k damage? That's 50% of the average players health, quite a bit. If they're lucky and can kite around a bit and draw out the fight oh hey they can pop on another bubble. Sure mara/sent can pop UD at low hop and block some damage but is it going to be 50% of our health worth of it over the course of a fight? probably not.