Healers in Warzones

[Harsisus]

bubbles count as healing?

 

Insta-invisible-health. Yeah I'd say that's either a heal or a temporary max health buff that isn't seen.

[Igaduma]

Insta-invisible-health. Yeah I'd say that's either a heal or a temporary max health buff that isn't seen.

 

It's not invisible, you can clearly see it.

It's not a heal either, it's far better than a heal, because whatever you overheal is wasted, but a buble works just as fine at full hp as at nearly dead (though, at nearly dead it might be a waste, depending on circumstances).

 

I just didn't know it counted as healing on the scoreboard.

[Diewoe]

I do not think "spam" healing should be enough to keep you alive against dps, you should have to (and indeed have to) use all your tools to stay alive. The reason why this does not reduce your value for your team is that every class has defensive cds of some sort, those combined with your heals and dispels will make your team win against a team with no healer, this is the reason to bring a healthy amount of healers over only dps.

 

I saw this and laughed. pre 1.2 healers could stay alive because hardly any one would interrupt or as you would say "use all your tools" Right now if a DPS just DPS'ed a healer and a healer spammed heal. the healer loses. it should be a stalemate but its not even close. The Healer also has knockbacks but most have to stand still to heal so this becomes a push. Now add in interrupts and its game over. Lets not forget the 23%+ damage bonus 20%+ damage reduction bonus and the 12% healing bonus. Yes that's all from the same amount of expertise not counting the all ready -30% healing debuff.

 

A DPS should not even come close to killing a healer with out interrupts. Why? because a healer also has to throw out damage on this DPS which lowers his over all healing. So now what i see is a healer throwing out 4 heals 2 getting interrupted and 1 DoT healing for around 3k in that time and doing 1k damage as the DPS just did 8k damage along with 2 interrupts. Those 2 interrupts = a -3k to 5k healing which you have to look at as a bonus to the DPS. 8k Damage done -3 to 5k healing stopped for a grand total of 11k to 13k as the healer sits that at 3k healing 1k damage. Oh and he is dead .

 

Yes i see healers do 450k in some wz but i also see DPS doing 650k. Pre 1.2 the high DPS and high healing were always close to the same. now it is very uncommon to see a healer with more healing than the top DPS. Pre 1.2 i could stand and spam because NO ONE would interrupt and i do mean NO ONE. Now thats all they do as my big heal is just to long and the small heal is not enough to hang ( 1.1k 1.4 second cast) with DPS doing 1,600k average DPS.

 

I twisted my build which lowered my healing but gives me better survival. I do miss being a pure healer and i feel i am letting my side down in every wz because my healing is now 175k ( down from 350-450k) but i have raised my damage to 200k ( up from around 50 to 60k before) Just removing the double dip bug would have reduced healing by almost 40% but not only did they do that and removed the quicker cast time totaly but they lowered expertise bonus % raised it on damage and reduction. People in my guild are starting to see it now. They are all saying the TTK is to quick and that the only viable healer now is OPs/Scoundrels.

 

Hang in there my fellow healers as we have hit bottom and i do see healing being upgraded on the sages and commandos shortly as they get the metrics over the next month or two. Oh and a side not. PvE healing isn't to bad but that's because there isn't a -30% debuff. Removing that in wz would cure this but then Ops/Scoundrels would need a big healing nerf.

[DuriZap]

Strange.

 

I play in a premaid with either sorc or operative healer, somethimes both.

 

They do fine under guard/taunts.

 

Just do not heard whaaaaaaaaaambulance from them.

 

What's your problem?

 

Is the OP talking about premades? No he is not. Stop the derailing / trolling please.

[DuriZap]

This game's pvp should only be balanced around Rated WZs. 8v8 premades.

 

On topic, healing is still very needed in WZs. I am a scoundrel healer, full BM with 3 WH pieces, and have not noticed a big increase in TTK. IMO it has increased by a small amount, nothing that cant be overcome. The only real problem i have noticed is when there are multiple Mara's or Powertech's on the same target, but that should be adressed soon according to tbe devs. All other healers in my guild have no problems healing in WZs (commando or sage).

 

I have still put up over 400k healing against the best premades on our server, with multiple ppl focusing me down. You just need peels from good teammates and guard. Just like pre 1.2.

 

You are asking a themepark based game's pvp mechanics to be based around premades solely?

You need to learn about economics.

[Deesasther]

I play just random groups for pvp, but thing is that nearly every match i played is determined still if you have good healers.

 

Now things are more balanced than pre 1.2.

 

If healing should equal to dps when not interrupted then 8 man healer team would be immortal. Ofc u can interrupt the dps also.

 

Just played a match with 4 -5 healers on both sides. Dps on both sides scored 300-450 with 10 kills. Healers scored 250-350 K. Very sensible numbers i think.

 

There is no reason to go back to pre 1.2 madness, in my opinion healers still contribute very much to their team. No reason to make them more dominant factor in wzs.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Deesasther

[NickBlane]

I think it is a game enjoyment issue rather than a balance issue.

 

When healing is the dominant force in s WZ, it takes for ever to kills stuff, true and that isn't loads of fun.

 

But healers have to put up with something no other class really has to, focus fire.

 

When DPS is the dominant force in a warzone, and i am focus fired, unless I am in a healer heavy group, which no one really likes, I will spend a vast amount of time running from the spawn site.

 

At least if it takes you ages to kill something you feel liek your playing the game, not so if you are corpse running.

 

Guard makes a huge difference, but unless you run with a pocket tank is getting harder to get.

 

The game maybe justs needs a minor tweek to make a healer a little more survivable or make it harder for them to be focused down, removing the marks on death for example.

[PoM-TeRRi]

Problem is, %90 of players doesn't even use interrupts, and when they couldn't kill the healer they cry on forums. No, healers weren't immortal or anything, you are just bad. I remember tanking 3 players easily while struggling to keep myself alive against one.

 

Pre 1.2 bad players couldn't kill a healer because they weren't using their interrupts, and that was balanced. Now baddies are able to kill healers without using their interrupts, and good players who actually use their skills just destroys them.

 

You can't be a healer if you are an avarage player now, you just need to be good. You don't have an option to make any mistakes if you are playing a healer while herp derpers can smash 3 buttons and have their fun.

 

If 1 healer can't even keep himself alive against 1 dps, there is no point of being a healer. And no, since there are so many bad players on my server that is not the issue for me, but I am worried about rated warzones.

[DuriZap]

Would it solve anything if trauma had effect on DPS as well?

- an idea which just popped up.

[pathiss]

This game's pvp should only be balanced around Rated WZs. 8v8 premades.

 

On topic, healing is still very needed in WZs. I am a scoundrel healer, full BM with 3 WH pieces, and have not noticed a big increase in TTK. IMO it has increased by a small amount, nothing that cant be overcome. The only real problem i have noticed is when there are multiple Mara's or Powertech's on the same target, but that should be adressed soon according to tbe devs. All other healers in my guild have no problems healing in WZs (commando or sage).

 

I have still put up over 400k healing against the best premades on our server, with multiple ppl focusing me down. You just need peels from good teammates and guard. Just like pre 1.2.

 

You want fighting balanced around rated 8v8 only, without consideration to the average player pugging it up. Not very reasonable or realistic. Not only that, you obviously are lacking for any decent competition because I KNOW the people I play with eat sorcerer/sage healers for lunch because they simply don't allow them to cast.

 

I understand why your perspective is skewed because you play an operative against crappy players. I have a sorc, merc, AND operative healer. My operative has way more defense, way less susceptibility to interrupts... at the sacrifice of a little healing bandwidth. HOWEVER, my actual healing throughput is much much high against competent opponents.

[Mary-JaneSmith]

I do not think "spam" healing should be enough to keep you alive against dps, you should have to (and indeed have to) use all your tools to stay alive. The reason why this does not reduce your value for your team is that every class has defensive cds of some sort, those combined with your heals and dispels will make your team win against a team with no healer, this is the reason to bring a healthy amount of healers over only dps.

 

i feel as if even when i am utilizing all of my "tools," I, as a healer, cannot for the life of me win against any dps when it is 1v1 ( i am a merc healer). the amount of heat that is generated when i use both my dmg and heals added to the fact that my dmg compared to theirs is equivalent to a baby punching a giant makes it impossible to be the victor unless im going against an idiot who uses zero interrupts or stuns. Also i have a sorc (lvl 11) and an operative (lvl 20) who both Already have more stuns/cc's than my lvl 50 merc so idk if the problem is that the healers canot heal enough at a time or that our resources are running out too fast due to overly expensive heal (i reallly dont think this is the problem) OR the dps and even tank are just too powerful when complared to a healer.... whichever it is its really taking the fun out of being a merc. but to be honest my operative does just fine in the pre 50 wzs i can stun/interupt/heal my through most attacks while running towards someone who can save me.

 

Pretty much in the hour long post i am saying that i agree with your premise but your conclusion that just utilizing my stuns/cds and (yes, i do use everything i have) will make it so us healers have a chance against a non horribad dps is incorrect.

[pathiss]

If healing should equal to dps when not interrupted then 8 man healer team would be immortal. Ofc u can interrupt the dps also.

 

No. Assisting DPS > Assisting healing

 

Why? A 100 healers cant keep someone alive when they die in a single GCD.

[Mary-JaneSmith]

I dont get it, healing looks fine to me. At the end of most matches a healer still hes for arounf 400k. Where in the same match the highest dps is about 400k. 400k healing vs 400k dps seems balanced.

 

Pre-patch you owuld see 600k from the highest healer and 400kish from the top dps. How was that balanced?

 

You think you should be able to heal more than DPS can put out? Lol, how is that balanced?

 

i would agree but ive been in matches where i will be healing my *** off and some bad sorc healer will get his 300k medal long before i would. I have watched sorc healers outdo my heals in situations where i have died once compared to their 7 or 8 and still have them beat me in heals. i dont have a level 50 sorc/sage but from a mercs point of view, i dont know what they are complaining about. it actually takes effort for me to get my 300k medal and never once have i gotten the 5k single heal or hit 400k healing nomatter how hard i try. and if this is due to my gear (i am just now getting to be full bm) then i will retract my statement and apologize to all sorcs im ************ about but the way it looks now, i am leveling a sorc healer 2 use in rated warzones because i dont think merc healers will be able to stand against them.

[NickBlane]

Would it solve anything if trauma had effect on DPS as well?

- an idea which just popped up.

 

As a healer I don't like that idea, would just lead to a pre 1.2 situation where everyone is calling for a healer nerf again. Maybe a stackable debuff where by the dps is reduced by the number of people that are attacking you, but I still think that would be too much

 

Maybe the healers defensive cool downs could have a talentable effect similar to that

[Mary-JaneSmith]

When I'm healing, and someone spots me and attacks me, I know I'm done for, unless someone comes to save me. In PUGs, that's pretty much a miracle (though there are *some* who come to my aid every time I get attacket unless there is a very good reason not to).

 

Now, when I'm healing myself, I'm not healing anyone else. So if I drag out the fight, I drag out the time that my group members aren't receiving any healing. Even if I win the fight, I will most likely be left completely out of force, meaning even after the fight, my group won't get any healing from me.

As soon as I start trying to heal myself, you'll unload your stuns as you said yourself. So I (depending on the situation) don't do that. I don't heal myself, I just try to heal those around me a bit before I die (and as you said yourself, some ppl save their stuns and all for when I target myself, so they wait for something that isn't going to happen and I get to heal my group), but up some shields and accept death. When I respawn, with a bit of luck and depending on the situation, I'm back where I was fully regenerated in a matter of seconds.

 

The goal is not "not dying", the goal is helping your team complete the mission objective. If dying is the better way to do that, it just is. So yeah, sometimes it makes more sense to just stand there.

 

My thoughts exactly, as a healer i am fully aware that i am the "support" i need to make sure that the other people on my team stay alive to capture the objective and to guard me. My goal is never to keep myself alive for as long as possible but to keep my team alive. The only situation where i feel useless and get a little annoyed is when i am TRYING to heal them but they dont bother help me and therefore i get focused down and die and really have made next to no contribution to the team. So yea, i am glad to see another healer with the same outlook.

[_droider_]

For a Merc to hit 5k heal you almost need to spec for it and it helps if your target has spec'd for healing bonus as well.

 

And to be effective in PVP as a healer, a number of things need to happen:

• YOU have to be good at your job.
  
• Need to be left alone or guarded.
  
• Have a competent team that focuses ppl down.
  
• Have a team that doesn't average 500 expertise
  

[pathiss]

i would agree but ive been in matches where i will be healing my *** off and some bad sorc healer will get his 300k medal long before i would. I have watched sorc healers outdo my heals in situations where i have died once compared to their 7 or 8 and still have them beat me in heals. i dont have a level 50 sorc/sage but from a mercs point of view, i dont know what they are complaining about. it actually takes effort for me to get my 300k medal and never once have i gotten the 5k single heal or hit 400k healing nomatter how hard i try. and if this is due to my gear (i am just now getting to be full bm) then i will retract my statement and apologize to all sorcs im ************ about but the way it looks now, i am leveling a sorc healer 2 use in rated warzones because i dont think merc healers will be able to stand against them.

 

You are going to be disappointed if you are rolling a sorcerer for rated warzones. You will be facing opponents that more than likely know how to play the game and will use interrupts and CC to completely shut you down.

[HoosierDuke]

Loved healing in pvp since release ... raised two healers to full BM geared prior to 1.2.

 

Post 1.2 ... I log in 1 healer, do my daily, turn in, log out ... thats it ... healing just is not fun in the pvp in this game anymore.

 

Raising some DPS to enjoy the FPS direction the game has taken.

[Gerinth]

I think post 1.2 the key is that you either need at least 2 healers, or you need 1 really good healer with good support (guard, taunt, peels). Nothing more frustrating than stunning a healer and watching his health bar fill up b/c there's another healer healing him. If you're a healer and you're solo pugging it and end up in a group that doesn't support you, then I get the angst, but I think for healers with some backup they're still doing really well in 1.2. The worst beat down I've taken pugging post 1.2 was in a match against 4 healers. It was crazy. You would try to focus one down and he would always be getting heals from at least 1 other healer (if not more).

[LukeStormstout]

I think it is a game enjoyment issue rather than a balance issue.

 

When healing is the dominant force in s WZ, it takes for ever to kills stuff, true and that isn't loads of fun.

 

But healers have to put up with something no other class really has to, focus fire.

 

When DPS is the dominant force in a warzone, and i am focus fired, unless I am in a healer heavy group, which no one really likes, I will spend a vast amount of time running from the spawn site.

 

At least if it takes you ages to kill something you feel liek your playing the game, not so if you are corpse running.

 

Guard makes a huge difference, but unless you run with a pocket tank is getting harder to get.

 

The game maybe justs needs a minor tweek to make a healer a little more survivable or make it harder for them to be focused down, removing the marks on death for example.

 

I agree mostly. This is what healers deal with every game.

Edited April 30, 2012 by LukeStormstout

[FiftHorseman]

You want fighting balanced around rated 8v8 only, without consideration to the average player pugging it up. Not very reasonable or realistic. Not only that, you obviously are lacking for any decent competition because I KNOW the people I play with eat sorcerer/sage healers for lunch because they simply don't allow them to cast.

 

I understand why your perspective is skewed because you play an operative against crappy players. I have a sorc, merc, AND operative healer. My operative has way more defense, way less susceptibility to interrupts... at the sacrifice of a little healing bandwidth. HOWEVER, my actual healing throughput is much much high against competent opponents.

 

You talk like you know anything about my skill level or the skill level of anyone on my server. To say I must be playing against bad players is a dumb assumption (unless you are on Giradda the Hutt).

 

And yes, pvp balance should only be determined by 8v8 premade rated WZs. There are far to many factors to balance if you take into account pugs.

[Autreki]

Its kind of hard to heal when marauders are rampant these days

I have been having more fun on my low level healer than on my r64 imperial agent healer

 

now if i happen to get into a wz where any tank knows me as a healer and i get a guard - Then the experience turns out to be a good one, but now days even the tanks are guarding the marauders

 

Still, it isn't always bad, I can manage to heal decently unless i see the wz as a lost cause! if that's the case, then ill put up my awesome healer DPS numbers and at least get some enjoyment out of it lol

 

like:

Lets see how many laps around the huttball arena can i make until someone rips my face off

Edited April 30, 2012 by Autreki

[pathiss]

You talk like you know anything about my skill level or the skill level of anyone on my server. To say I must be playing against bad players is a dumb assumption (unless you are on Giradda the Hutt).

 

I said what I did based on what YOU said. Competent opponents will shut a sorc healer down.

[Nilatis]

Problem is, %90 of players doesn't even use interrupts, and when they couldn't kill the healer they cry on forums. No, healers weren't immortal or anything, you are just bad.

 

This is exactly why they nerfed healers. And now that we face people who are adequate at using interrupt abilities there is no possible way to survive even one DPS class.

 

And most classes have around 2-4 different ways to interrupt casting.

 

I am overjoyed that they made my 2.5 second heal "cheaper" to cast instead of "faster" to cast on proc. So now whenever I cast my HoT it makes my 2.5 second heal twice as expensive since the HoT outweighs the expenses. It makes me wonder what the development was thinking when they changed it. Any Sorcerer healer that relies on any of the current procs gained from the HoT are fools, and so are the development team for thinking Sorcerer healers would ever consider relying on the current HoT procs. The only HoT proc worth while was the one that made my 2.5 second heal 1 second faster to cast (Before SWTOR v1.2 released).

 

If a warrior class is allowed to deal 7000 damage to up to 5 people in one single hit I should at least be able to heal one single person for that amount. Or am I not supposed to be able to heal and save anyone on my team? This situation is absurd. Unreasonable to say the least.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Nilatis

[JayPres]

Running an Ops healer is a little self-defeating if you are the lone healer or not supporting the other healer on the team.

 

Try to spread out your Evasion and use of Shield Probe for extended mitigation and don't forget to purge yourself of dots and mental effects (if you've spec'd into it).

 

I don't presume to tell you exactly how to play the class, but it is something that I had to learn over the course of a long time only playing this class.