The Pros and Cons of a Marauder

[celebrei]

A dps class doing considerably more dps than other dps classes = wrong.

 

not to mention a dps class tanking more than a tanking class = wrong too

[HurricaneXXIV]

Have you tried moving away from the Sent?

[criminalheretic]

A dps class doing considerably more dps than other dps classes = wrong.

 

Except they aren't. The forums aren't being filled by people who get mad when seeing a Marauder at the top of the damage rankings. Every other DPS class gets their time at the top of the damage rankings. I roll a Marauder, and yes I lead the WZ in damage quite often, but every time I don't, it isn't another Marauder that is beating me.

 

The forums are being filled with ranged players who refuse, or don't know how, to use range to their advantage, and then get mad when they have a Marauder up in their grill and lose.

[criminalheretic]

not to mention a dps class tanking more than a tanking class = wrong too

 

They don't. Complain that they do too much damage, there is at least a kernel of truth in that. People saying Marauders tank are just making things up. Yeah they have defensive CDs. Because they have the same armor as Smugglers and Operatives WITHOUT the ability to attack from far away, or heal.

[alcek]

Force Push, Saber Throw, Charge > Push > Charge AGAIN **** SO OP! Spammable AOE SLOW WUT????? 2 taunts, Guard, Intercede, Enraged Defense!

 

Now that I think of it...

 

**** NERF JUGG SO HARD AHHHHH!!!!

And after all that u are still alive on your marauder, dansing on my corpse. If they nerf me, they should delete your class straight out of the game.

Imagine the oposite situation - you jump on a jugg. How long is his life expectancy? Yep, 10 seconds. Not come back win. No way in hell.

Edited April 27, 2012 by alcek

[Kehtal]

Have you tried moving away from the Sent?

 

What'chu talkin' bout, Willis?

[Anelitt]

Weird how you put kiting as a weakness, seeing has how they are the hardest melee class to kite by a mile.

[Lugh]

Interesting to see how little attention this post gets, as opposed to the 1000's of "nurf marauders naow lulz" posts out there.

 

Here is a post giving good information on why a nerf isn't necessary, but it is ignored by those suffering pack mentality completely. Why? Because it is a objective post.

 

I fear for the future of humanity.

It resembles the Sorc/Sage not overpowered hear's why threads of the past. That didn't save us, so take it like a man jippy.

[fungihoujo]

I like how every con for marauders is a con for every other class- con, if half the other team focuses them they're dead fast... geez, thanks OP, you've just outlined a situation unique to marauders

 

Or how about- if half a team of marauders focuses on a tank who's being healed by two healers they can't beat them... what class can? And why aren't those marauders focusing the healers first exactly? Oh- I get it. If a marauder tunnel visions and doesn't know how to play, the class is bad.

 

Phew! Good thing we got that one sorted out!

[mcdoogle]

A dps class doing considerably more dps than other dps classes = wrong.

 

The Marauder is a PURE DPS class. Sent/Mara's can't do ANYTHING else. So I don't see why them doing more damage is a bad thing, besides, their a Melee class. If you are tired being slapped around by one then L2P, they have to be up in your face to do damage. Snipers can *** destroy people from a distance, and stun the **** out of anyone who gets near them.

[Fenomen]

FYI Ravage has 10 m Range after Activation. You cant run out of Range easily in the 2.7 Seconds it takes for the third hit to occur, much less with a 50% Snare on you.

[crashoverridex]

With everyone calling marauders the new overpowered class and calling them the best at everything in PVP, it seems like a good chance to explain some of the strengths and weaknesses of the class as a whole. If only to educate the masses of people asking for nerfs to a class with very powerful strengths, and very glaring weaknesses. The most important thing to know is that this game is currently balanced around Objective Based Group PVP.

 

 

I'll start with the Pros to being a marauder without much detail given as I am sure with all the hate Marauders are getting most will agree with them.

 

1. Marauders put out almost unparallelled damage to non-tank classes. If a marauder is able to stay in melee combat with a squishy target they can put out incredibly high damage. This is as it should be considering marauders have 0 initial burst, and are required to be in constant melee combat(In a game where nearly every ranged class has a knock+root on a ~20 CD on top of multiple other forms of CC) to achieve top damage.

 

2. Have the best defensive tool set of any dps class when it comes to temporarily avoiding being focus fired. It is nearly impossible to kill a marauder quickly with all his defensive CDs up and a healer behind him. This is as it should be considering Marauders have purely backloaded damage and require to be in the middle of the enemy team to do anything. After their short defensive CDs end they die just as quickly as a dps operative.

 

3. Have arguably the best tool set to chain interrupt casters. If a marauder spends their GCDs on interrupting casts instead of damage it is nearly impossible to cast anything. Most melee classes can actually achieve nearly the same amount of interrupts as marauders can. Take for instance Marauders having 4 potential ways to interrupt compared to say an Powertechs potential of 5.

 

4. Have the only real group buff in the game between bloodthirst/predation. +15% damage/healing or +50% move speed can often pull out wins in group settings. Unfortunately they can only be used at the beginning of the fight by using a 3 minute CD.

 

 

 

Now here come the Cons to the marauder class with some details added for people that don't play Marauders.

 

1. Very weak to being kited as well as soft CC such as roots and knockbacks. Marauders(and Juggernauts) are the only class that requires to be in melee combat to generate their "energy" as well as to do any kind of damage. With only 2 gap closers on a 12s CD and 45s CD it is very possible to kept out of melee range for extended periods of times. It is a nightmare for a marauder to attack groups of ranged classes that chain aoe knockback+roots. It is not unheard of to spend 30+ seconds being chain KB+rooted+mezzed as a marauder vs groups of ranged and not even be able to do ANY damage. No other class can be shutdown as completely as maras with coordinated soft and hard CC due to being a pure melee class with 0 energy regen outside of melee. Roots not being affected by resolve is also a huge issue maras have to deal with as it is effectively a hard CC for maras. So you basically have a class that can be 100% shutdown(damage and energy regen) by a CC(roots) that is not affected by resolve in any way with no defense against it.

 

2. Very low survivability outside of defensive CDs. Marauders without defensive CDs up drop faster than just about any other class especially since they are in the middle of the enemy team. It is very possible to be hit with a stun at 100% hp with no defenses up and die in under 4 seconds to 2 burst dps. If your CC breaker is up you can avoid this, but then you run the risk of being stunned at <20% and not being able to pop Undying Rage. Much like the current Ravage/Undying Rage complaints on the forums against marauders you can't avoid both. Suffice to say a marauder without any defensive CDs is a very dead marauder. So removing the defences from a pure melee dps class with purely backloaded damage would destroy the class.

 

3. Nearly no group utility outside of an on demand predation/bloodthirst every 3 minutes. In an objective based game this is a huge weakness, and a reason you will never see 4+ marauders on any rated WZ team. This weakness affects Huttball the worst, but also carries over to general group PVP. they have no Pull to kill enemy ball carriers. they have no Knock back to knock them off ledges. They aren't tanky enough to carry the ball(Their defenses are very temporary). They again are VERY susceptible to any kind of soft CC such as roots and knock backs. Its not uncommon to be unable to stop a node from being captured simply due to being rooted/slowed for 10+ seconds >4m away from the node(they have to chase down ranged targets). They have to deal with the full extent of tanking stats of tanks, and do miserably low damage as a result to most ball carriers. They have no guard/taunt like other melee to protect healers, and in a game so centered around guarded healers that's a big one. Pull/gaurd/taunt/knockback are THE most important abilities in this game as they are the only way to either kill or save key targets such as healers/ball carriers on organized teams and marauders don't have these abilities.

 

4. Are hard countered by Snipers in Group PVP to an almost impossible degree. I could list the many reasons why, but suffice to say snipers + healers absolutely destroy teams of marauders with almost no effort. Marauders also lack the means to even pressure an Operative healer. Maras also lose 1v1 to Snipers/Operatives/Tankassins. So marauders barely win more then 50% of their 1v1 battles, and have a very hard counter in the form of snipers in group PVP.

 

5. Very weak at killing tanks in PVP. This might not seem like a huge deal, but marauders have to deal with the full extent of a tanks defenses. Marauders take forever to kill any kind of tank in PVP. This is very important as to take a node or door you have to generally kill the tanks guarding it quickly before reinforcements come. Marauders are simply not a class that is capably of doing this. Marauders are also very weak at killing enemy ball carriers in huttball due to their weak damage against tanky targets as well as their very limited ability to use the Hazards to kill the carrier. Its almost laughable watching 5+ marauders try to kill a tank with 2 healers behind him. This makes marauders one of the worst classes when it comes to achieve WZ objectives that are being guarded by tanks. Someone has to kill tanks quickly before reinforcements show up, and Marauders are NOT that class and so you will never see 4+ in any serious rated WZ team.

 

So in conclusion you have a very high dps class with powerful tools to avoid being focused first, but they require other classes with access to group utility like pull/guard/taunt/knockbacks/CC as well as healers to support them to achieve victory. They are neither a 1v1 god nor do they have no counter class in group PVP. They do very poorly at killing huttball carriers and killing tanks guarding nodes compared to other dps classes that can ignore a tanks defenses, and these are THE two most important things to do in the current objective based PVP.

 

Regardless of what is said I am sure many will still say that marauders are impossible to keep out of melee, or that they win 100% of all 1v1s, or that they have no counter class, or that they rip even tanks to pieces, or that predation/bloodthirst is better than having Pull/taunt/gaurd/knockbacks as well as multiple stuns, or that stacking 6 marauders is the key to victory. None of these are true. If you believe that they are true then you do not understand how the marauder class works in an objective based group PVP setting.

 

 

 

TLDR- Marauders are a powerful dps class that require other dps/tanks/healers with access to the utility of Pull/Gaurd/Knockback/Multiple Stuns/Taunts/Healing to win in an organized objective based group PVP setting. Oh and I guess flame away and what not.

 

this whole post just made me lol. first off with your pros

 

no class should have unparalleled dmg output AND the best defensive cooldowns in the game AND the best tools to chain interrupt a healer AND one of the best group wide buffs in the game

 

as far as your cons go which made me really laugh let me educate you my marauder friend who doesnt want to get nerfed.

 

1. NO MELEE CLASS IS EFFECTIVE WHILE SLOWED OR ROOTED

 

2. every class is vulnerable while defensive cooldowns are down

 

3. bloodthirst is one of the best group utility buffs in the game

 

4. the only part about number 4 thats true is that they lose 1v1 against tanks assassins but you did say this didnt you ? "The most important thing to know is that this game is currently balanced around Objective Based Group PVP." so why bring up 1v1? also any class would lose to an operative + healer, this isn't exclusive to the marauder class.

 

5. since we're talking objective based group pvp when would a marauder be attacking a tank over a healer or dps? straight up tanks with tank gear are ignored till the rest of the team can be taken care of. now if a tank can force a marauder to attack them i would understand this as being a weakness but youre just trying to scrape around for something with this one.

Edited April 27, 2012 by crashoverridex

[Zellata]

The Marauder is a PURE DPS class. Sent/Mara's can't do ANYTHING else. So I don't see why them doing more damage is a bad thing, besides, their a Melee class. If you are tired being slapped around by one then L2P, they have to be up in your face to do damage. Snipers can *** destroy people from a distance, and stun the **** out of anyone who gets near them.

 

Sure, a pure dps class should do more damage than tank or healer, no questions about it. Why do you think that marauders are entitled to doing more damage than other dps classes? Melee/ranged makes very little difference here, given how many gap closers, stuns, and snares a marauder has. Not to mention that they can simply walk up to the target in stealth if they desire to do so. A class should either have the highest dps, or the best defensive CDs, or the best utility skills, not everything at once. Marauders pretty much get all of it in one package - best defense, best dps, stealth, a bit of self-heal, speed buff, gap closers, and fairly strong CC abilities.

[mmaize]

Sure, a pure dps class should do more damage than tank or healer, no questions about it. Why do you think that marauders are entitled to doing more damage than other dps classes? Melee/ranged makes very little difference here, given how many gap closers, stuns, and snares a marauder has. Not to mention that they can simply walk up to the target in stealth if they desire to do so. A class should either have the highest dps, or the best defensive CDs, or the best utility skills, not everything at once. Marauders pretty much get all of it in one package - best defense, best dps, stealth, a bit of self-heal, speed buff, gap closers, and fairly strong CC abilities.

 

Really? Can you elaborate on all of their stuns and snares please? Because I think that's news to them. Secondly what utility are tyou talking about? Stealth..so..your counting Camo as stealth? Really? Best defense? Please put down the crack pipe. Now we know your just trolling and whining. As a healer main class, I'm telling you that you have no idea what your talking about. Sents/Maras are already easy to kill as a knife through butter as long as YOU ARE NOT STANDING IN THEIR FACE. So if that's you...please unsub and do us all a favor.

[_Scattered_]

Nearly no group utility outside of an on demand predation/bloodthirst every 3 minutes

 

What?

 

How about a healing debuff or a AoE mez or trancendance in Huttball or leap/saber throw root on ball carriers that isn't effected by resolve.

 

Very low survivability outside of defensive CDs

 

Everyone and I mean everyone has low survivability outside of defensive cd's right now.

 

Very weak to being kited as well as soft CC such as roots and knockbacks.

 

Due to watchmen dots or focus sweep burst mara's don't need high % of uptime on target to deal excellent damage.

 

Very weak at killing tanks in PVP

 

Watchmen's dot's ignore armor, focus force attacks ignore tank defences. Decent tanks do not stack useless defence stats or wear shields, sents are not *weak* at killing tanks.

[mcdoogle]

Sure, a pure dps class should do more damage than tank or healer, no questions about it. Why do you think that marauders are entitled to doing more damage than other dps classes? Melee/ranged makes very little difference here, given how many gap closers, stuns, and snares a marauder has. Not to mention that they can simply walk up to the target in stealth if they desire to do so. A class should either have the highest dps, or the best defensive CDs, or the best utility skills, not everything at once. Marauders pretty much get all of it in one package - best defense, best dps, stealth, a bit of self-heal, speed buff, gap closers, and fairly strong CC abilities.

 

A Marauder can get practically stunned to death with how many stuns other classes have. It's not hard to destroy a Marauder.

[Zellata]

Really? Can you elaborate on all of their stuns and snares please?

 

Really. Are you saying that they have no stuns? No mez? No root on ravage? No 50% slow? No speed buff?

 

Because I think that's news to them.

 

Don't think, you are not good at it. They are well aware of what is available to them and use those skills as part of normal rotation.

 

Secondly what utility are tyou talking about?

 

group (cone) mez - check.

Leap to enemy while carrying a ball in huttball - check.

Pop undying rage and carry the ball to the goal line through the fire - check.

Force choke somebody over the fire pit - check.

Leap to enemy in voidstar/navarre and stop the cap - check.

 

What other utility do you want - friendly pulls?

 

Stealth..so..your counting Camo as stealth? Really?

 

Really. It's what - 4s without talents? So at least 4s of invisibility with a speed buff attached to it, and you can't sneak up to your intended target in that timeframe? Granted, that kind of stealth is not good for AFKing in the corner, but one can't have literally everything, right?

 

Best defense? Please put down the crack pipe.

 

Which dps class has better defensive CDs? I am all ears.

 

Now we know your just trolling and whining. As a healer main class, I'm telling you that you have no idea what your talking about.

 

Being a healer implies that your main is neither a dps spec (obviously), nor a marauder/sentinel (as they don't have a healing spec). NOW we do indeed know who is trolling, whining, and has no idea what they are talking about. On a side note, we also know who has no clue about difference between "your" and "you're", but that's just icing on the cake.

 

Sents/Maras are already easy to kill as a knife through butter as long as YOU ARE NOT STANDING IN THEIR FACE. So if that's you...please unsub and do us all a favor.

 

So, your healer manages to kite marauders and easily kill them in the process? Can we have a video of that particular feat please?

[V-Serp]

The Marauder is a PURE DPS class. Sent/Mara's can't do ANYTHING else. So I don't see why them doing more damage is a bad thing, besides, their a Melee class. If you are tired being slapped around by one then L2P, they have to be up in your face to do damage. Snipers can *** destroy people from a distance, and stun the **** out of anyone who gets near them.

 

All the classes are pure DPS now since Bioware nerfed healing and tanking, and destroyed any hybrid classes that existed.

[mmaize]

Really. Are you saying that they have no stuns? No mez? No root on ravage? No 50% slow? No speed buff?

 

Don't think, you are not good at it. They are well aware of what is available to them and use those skills as part of normal rotation.?

 

What stun would you be talking about that doesn't keep them in place while they are doing it? Slow...sure that one I'll give you but its the one thing they have vs an whole slew of other classes debuf abilities. If I'm not good at thinking then I sure as hell don't need to hear from your ineptitude

 

 

group (cone) mez - check.

Cone mez? in PvP? Funny I've never seen that before.

Leap to enemy while carrying a ball in huttball - check.

Leap to enemy in hutball..hmmm leap check..vs. how many other knockbacks, pulls, etc from other classes? Stop crying..it sounds like someone lost too many huttball games..which if you lost to a friggin Sent/Mara in these games you really do suck...they are the worst class for huttball there is just about.

Pop undying rage and carry the ball to the goal line through the fire - check..

Again with the huttball references..I'm sorry...need a tissue? They can pop that for what 5 sec problem is they can be mezzed in that fire for far longer than the 5 seconds they can pop it for idiot.

 

Pop Force choke somebody over the fire pit - check.

Again..if they actually managed to pull that off, which don't get me wrong it is possible..but rare. There are too many things they have to hope happen for that scenario to work. Oh..and they have to be stationary too...unlike how many other classes that have better abilities?

 

Pop Leap to enemy in voidstar/navarre and stop the cap - check..

If they arent' stun/mezzed to death or even better the whole push back with mez at the same time ability...thats a fun one.

 

Pop What other utility do you want - friendly pulls?.

I want the ability to avoid having to reply to stupid posts. All your doing is explaining their abilities and then trying to put them into a light that makes them seem over powered which in reality and in comparison to all other classes out there pales like white on rice to other classes. Now can they do damage...absolutely which is exactly what the class is meant for.

 

 

 

Really. It's what - 4s without talents? So at least 4s of invisibility with a speed buff attached to it, and you can't sneak up to your intended target in that timeframe? Granted, that kind of stealth is not good for AFKing in the corner, but one can't have literally everything, right?.

Hahaha are you serious??? 4 seconds of stealth is what your crying about as OP? I don't know why I'm wasting my time here.

 

 

 

Which dps class has better defensive CDs? I am all ears.

 

How about you tell me other than healers that can be guarded and ranged that have cover, which don't?

 

 

 

Being a healer implies that your main is neither a dps spec (obviously), nor a marauder/sentinel (as they don't have a healing spec). NOW we do indeed know who is trolling, whining, and has no idea what they are talking about. On a side note, we also know who has no clue about difference between "your" and "you're", but that's just icing on the cake.

 

I know that you're trying to be an elitist idiot by showing your one talent is at grammer enforcement. nice job.

 

 

 

So, your healer manages to kite marauders and easily kill them in the process? Can we have a video of that particular feat please?

Certainly. in fact why don't you look up pretty much any healer video in youtube so you can see how a class ..any class for that matter...should be played.

[Girltank]

good informative post. Not unsupported claims like we are so used to seeing on the forums.

 

I agree on all points, *though to varying degrees on some*.

 

The main weakness people don't even give credit is they are the only AC in the game with 1 30 meter attack and a host of 10 meter attacks that can only be situationaly used. This means while defending objectives you often don't even need to be killed you just need to be pushed backed and immobilize/slowed for the opposing team to cap.

 

Maras do good dps *though best dps, I'm not so sure about* and they are very survivable, but they are not without significant weakness and countermeasure.

[criminalheretic]

He will show you a team focus firing, since according to him you need a team and can't 1 v 1 them. Somehow that isn't OPed.

 

Correct. That isn't OPed.

 

Since each class gets a power or two every level. ALL of ours are to help us win 1v1 fights (or escape). Some of yours are to support other people. If you are trying to win 1v1 fights vs Marauders, you're actually not using your class as it was designed.

[ufarax]

Ask not for whom the nerf bat swings, it swings for thee. My fellow Sith Warriors and Jedi Knights, kiss your OP class goodbye. You all complained about sages and sorcerers, now it's our turn. I hope the nerf bat lands hard and fast. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[cashogy]

um, hate to break it to you guys but EVERY SINGLE CLASS is super vulnerable to being chain stunned and killed. that is not a unique con for marauder, and to claim it is makes you seem absolutely irrational.

 

marauders have the best offensive capability and the best independent survivability of any dps class. this is a fact.

 

and marauders have a ton of soft CC of their own. a couple slows/root, mez, etc.

 

are marauders killable? absolutely, everyone is. next time you make a pro/con list, stick with pros and cons that are not universal

[MehZunk]

Marauders have NO cons.

[Kyhren]

I love how most Mara/Sents “advise” to move out of the way of Ravage too – kinda hard when you’re rooted/interrupted after being charged… Ravage = 3 second channel, how long is one rooted for after the charge? 2 seconds? Wow… I have a 1 second to run 10metres, I’d say 99% of the time it’s unlikely I’ll make it. Is the root affected by resolve?

 

Not sure whether it’s bad play on their part, but I’ve noticed most will Ravage right after the charge, so you can see the dilemma with simply moving out of the way of Ravage in most cases.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Kyhren