The "Bubble" Tank 19/0/22

[Agooz]

Ok before you all start laughing, just give me a chance to explain

 

First of all, this is UNTESTED. Since my guild already has 2 tanks, it's going to be a while before I get a chance to try it out in an HM Ops.

 

The idea is based on my other thread where I mention my new setup to get an 18sec shield.

 

The "Bubble" Tank 19/0/22 is based on the idea of having Energy Shield up quite often, especially on boss fights, where it really counts.

 

Gear setup: 2pc PvE Supercommando + 2pc PvP combat Medic = 18sec Energy Shield.

 

Why 19/0/22? Energy Rebounder:

This is where I need help with testers from active tanks. I'm thinking an Ops boss maybe hitting you every 2-3sec? So Energy Rebounder can theoretically shave off 60-90sec off of cooldown??!

 

So in summary, you would loose 6% shield chance, 4% absorb, and maybe another 2% mitigation if you specced Power Armor, but isnt having Energy Shield available to use a whole minute sooner worth it? not to mention and extra 3sec on the shield?? Also I think Superheated Rail would give you the same heat management as Heat Blast, and IM will compensate for its dps. Also 15sec decrease on Vent heat. ALSO as a side bonus, the ability to switch to DPS CGC when fighting a no-taunt boss.

 

Food for thought....what do you guys think? I am already addicted to the 18sec shield + Energy Rebounder as a Pyro.

 

UPDATE: Some have been a little confused with what I am trying to say. So just to clear things up, you would use this spec in IGC not CGC.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Agooz

[TheOpf]

Without IGC you would lose a ton of threat, armor, and damage reduction. Jet Charge is a huge initial aggro loss and the loss of Heat Blast is much bigger than you think. It's their most used ability since it's off the GCD. Since you will need CGC to get the RS to make up for the loss of shielding which would proc your vents, you lose a ton of threat, ton of mitigation, and if you have ever tried to tank an Ops boss as dps when the tank goes down, you know exactly how fast you can die even with shield up.

[exphryl]

I ran an Energy Rebounder Tank build Pre 1.2. (Well, I also tanked in full pyro with Tank gear. Content allowed it).

 

I honestly can not see that being the case in EC though.

 

Things hit incredibly hard in there to where the times your Energy Shield is down with this build, you'll lose way to much mitigation and stress your healers endlessly.

 

Perhaps with a full Campaign set it might be possible due to the massive increase in stats, but at the very least I wouldn't do this with Rakata.

[Agooz]

Without IGC you would lose a ton of threat, armor, and damage reduction. Jet Charge is a huge initial aggro loss and the loss of Heat Blast is much bigger than you think. It's their most used ability since it's off the GCD. Since you will need CGC to get the RS to make up for the loss of shielding which would proc your vents, you lose a ton of threat, ton of mitigation, and if you have ever tried to tank an Ops boss as dps when the tank goes down, you know exactly how fast you can die even with shield up.

 

I never said to use CGC. You would still be using IGC. You would still proc as many RPs, I dont think dps would really be that much less at all.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Agooz

[Agooz]

I honestly can not see that being the case in EC though.

 

Things hit incredibly hard in there to where the times your Energy Shield is down with this build, you'll lose way to much mitigation and stress your healers endlessly.

In comparison to a full ST you would loose 6% shield chance, 4% absorb, and maybe another 2% mitigation if you specced Power Armor, during the 15-20s you dont have Energy Shield available. 15-20sec would put that much stress on a healer? How about the rest of the time while energy shield is up and you are relieving alot of stress on the healer? You would be using Energy Shield at least 3x more than full ST during a boss fight. So instead of maybe 3-4 times, you would get to use it 10-12 times.

[Agooz]

If you dont mind TheOpf, when you are free, can you please run the spreadsheet for dps comparison of Full ST vs This spec, with IM in the rotation on CD, both running in IGC.

[TheOpf]

If you dont mind TheOpf, when you are free, can you please run the spreadsheet for dps comparison of Full ST vs This spec, with IM in the rotation on CD, both running in IGC.

 

Unfortunately Kray's Spreadsheet Shield Tree is bugged for Ion Gas Cylinder. It also doesn't allow me to use the Supercommando armor sorry.

Edited April 25, 2012 by TheOpf

[Dekai]

Since the Pyro talents no longer work in IGC, why my 21/2/18 build was killed, why have any points relating to CGC at all?

 

Edit:

 

Now, if you're trying for a Tank that can swap stances to DPS if needed, wouldn't http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301RRMrdodZZfI0bdrM.1 be a superior layout for talents? This way you have a dependable DoT from IGC with rocket Punch to use Rail Shot, and a better chance at DPS if in CGC.

 

My main concern would be, even though TTL could be higher, your TPS will definitely suffer with this build due to no heat management other then Shield Vents every 6 seconds.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dekai

[Agooz]

Since the Pyro talents no longer work in IGC, why my 21/2/18 build was killed, why have any points relating to CGC at all?

 

Edit:

 

Now, if you're trying for a Tank that can swap stances to DPS if needed, wouldn't http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301RRMrdodZZfI0bdrM.1 be a superior layout for talents? This way you have a dependable DoT from IGC with rocket Punch to use Rail Shot, and a better chance at DPS if in CGC.

 

My main concern would be, even though TTL could be higher, your TPS will definitely suffer with this build due to no heat management other then Shield Vents every 6 seconds.

 

If this spec is not viable, it certainly NOT for any argument that you mentioned. I dont see an issue at all with threat. The points placed in CGC are a must to go up the tree to get Energy Rebounder. As a side bonus, it will work better than ANY full ST spec as an off Tank who can readily switch between dps/tank.

 

As far as Heat management. What do you mean just Shield Vents every 6 sec? That's also the main Heat Management mechanism for a full ST. So are you referring to Heat Blast? In that case, as I mentioned before, you have Superheated Rail, through Rail Shots you will vent 8heat and it is on a 15sec cd just like Heat Blast. The difference is that it is not off of GCD, but at least will do more damage. On top of that with 1 point in rapid Venting, you can vent 15second sooner. Also Gyroscopic Alignment. With all that, heat management, would probably be even better than full ST.

 

I am not see ANY issues with threat or dps with a spec like this. The question is: Would it make sense to sacrifice 6% shield, 4% absorb and maybe another 2% mitigation FOR being able to use Energy Shield pretty much 3 times as much as a full ST while having it also last an extra 3sec? I think it is very much worth considering. You can time it where you use Energy shield, wait for it to expire, use Oil Slick, by the time it expires, Energy Shield should be available again in 5-10sec, etc...

Edited April 26, 2012 by Agooz

[Dekai]

If this spec is not viable, it certainly NOT for any argument that you mentioned. I dont see an issue at all with threat. The points placed in CGC are a must to go up the tree to get Energy Rebounder. As a side bonus, it will work better than ANY full ST spec as an off Tank who can readily switch between dps/tank.

 

As far as Heat management. What do you mean just Shield Vents every 6 sec? That's also the main Heat Management mechanism for a full ST. So are you referring to Heat Blast? In that case, as I mentioned before, you have Superheated Rail, through Rail Shots you will vent 8heat and it is on a 15sec cd just like Heat Blast. The difference is that it is not off of GCD, but at least will do more damage. On top of that with 1 point in rapid Venting, you can vent 15second sooner. Also Gyroscopic Alignment. With all that, heat management, would probably be even better than full ST.

 

I am not see ANY issues with threat or dps with a spec like this. The question is: Would it make sense to sacrifice 6% shield, 4% absorb and maybe another 2% mitigation FOR being able to use Energy Shield pretty much 3 times as much as a full ST while having it also last an extra 3sec? I think it is very much worth considering. You can time it where you use Energy shield, wait for it to expire, use Oil Slick, by the time it expires, Energy Shield should be available again in 5-10sec, etc...

 

The reason I see it as a heat issue, you need to burn 25 heat to lose 8 heat ever 15 seconds as well. This also does not remove 8 heat, since you need PPA to do it. PPA requires CGC active, so in reality you're just reducing Rail Shot from 16 heat to 8. The reason my 21/2/18 build worked before the change, is the PPA would work in any stance you were in, thus making Rail Shot's Free, thus making it reduce your total heat by 8 on a PPA proc(Which were quite frequent with Rocket Punch resets and Flame Burst).

 

Make more sense now? You're not losing heat with Rail Shot, you're just reducing it by 8 and not really since you need IM DoT of 25 heat to even get the benefit.

 

I'm not saying your build is bad, I enjoy hybrid builds, hence my "Carolina Parakeet" build(Still hate the name given to it). But someone would have to parse this build vs a standard tank build, and compare TTL and DPS between both so really make a fair comparison. Maybe a world boss with just healers on you to test each one.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dekai

[TheOpf]

I am going to side with Dekai here agooz. Your hybrid either loses threat and venting when Tanking due to lack of shield buffing and lack of IGC dps. Or you are in CGC and lose the mitigation of it as well. I can see the build being pretty solid in pvp though.

[Agooz]

I am going to side with Dekai here agooz. Your hybrid either loses threat and venting when Tanking due to lack of shield buffing and lack of IGC dps. Or you are in CGC and lose the mitigation of it as well. I can see the build being pretty solid in pvp though.

 

I am just not buying the Vent/Heat argument. How is this different from running an IronFist spec. This actually has better heat management. I know quite a few PTs ran IronFist and/or variants of it for PvE. Pre 1.2 alot of PT tanks didnt bother with Heat Blast, how were they maintaining threat/heat level?

[TheOpf]

I am just not buying the Vent/Heat argument. How is this different from running an IronFist spec. This actually has better heat management. I know quite a few PTs ran IronFist and/or variants of it for PvE. Pre 1.2 alot of PT tanks didnt bother with Heat Blast, how were they maintaining threat/heat level?

 

I am sorry, perhaps I was not clear, You have a two fold issue.

 

1. If you go dps and CGC - your damage will be less than running a pure dps build, and if you use CGC to tank you will die. You also don't have more venting unless you are pvping, because you aren't getting shield procs in pve as a dps.

 

2. If you go tank - you will have threat issues and won't have the free PPA proc because you are going to have to run IGC for the mitigation. If you go tank without IGC you will die.

 

Ironfist is pvp build only. It's suitable to tank with because you use IGC and Jet charge, but they are never main tanks because they still have threat issues in a Ops.

 

You can't tank without IGC and it's buffed talents because you need the mitigation and threat. You need Jet Charge as a tank to help with threat. You need Heat Blast so you can maximize threat while reducing heat.

[dardack]

I am sorry, perhaps I was not clear, You have a two fold issue.

 

1. If you go dps and CGC - your damage will be less than running a pure dps build, and if you use CGC to tank you will die. You also don't have more venting unless you are pvping, because you aren't getting shield procs in pve as a dps.

 

2. If you go tank - you will have threat issues and won't have the free PPA proc because you are going to have to run IGC for the mitigation. If you go tank without IGC you will die.

 

Ironfist is pvp build only. It's suitable to tank with because you use IGC and Jet charge, but they are never main tanks because they still have threat issues in a Ops.

 

You can't tank without IGC and it's buffed talents because you need the mitigation and threat. You need Jet Charge as a tank to help with threat. You need Heat Blast so you can maximize threat while reducing heat.

 

How will you have threat issues? RP's are still going to proc off shielding along with IM/RS hitting. It might have some heat issues, but you DON"T need heat blast to max thread/reduce heat. Many tanks run without Heat Blast.

[Agooz]

I am sorry, perhaps I was not clear, You have a two fold issue.

 

1. If you go dps and CGC - your damage will be less than running a pure dps build, and if you use CGC to tank you will die. You also don't have more venting unless you are pvping, because you aren't getting shield procs in pve as a dps.

 

2. If you go tank - you will have threat issues and won't have the free PPA proc because you are going to have to run IGC for the mitigation. If you go tank without IGC you will die.

 

Ironfist is pvp build only. It's suitable to tank with because you use IGC and Jet charge, but they are never main tanks because they still have threat issues in a Ops.

 

You can't tank without IGC and it's buffed talents because you need the mitigation and threat. You need Jet Charge as a tank to help with threat. You need Heat Blast so you can maximize threat while reducing heat.

 

I think CGC is putting a mental block in this thread. FORGET CGC, dont even touch it. Lets just focus on the "Tank" aspect of the spec in IGC. I dont see the loss of Heat Blast, could lead to such a HUGE impact on Thread and Heat, especially when I am somewhat making it up otherwise.

[TheOpf]

I think CGC is putting a mental block in this thread. FORGET CGC, dont even touch it. Lets just focus on the "Tank" aspect of the spec in IGC. I dont see the loss of Heat Blast, could lead to such a HUGE impact on Thread and Heat, especially when I am somewhat making it up otherwise.

 

I am also noting the loss of Jet Charge, IGC buffs, and the Crit talents for RP. Are you planning on using taunt to maintain threat. Every little bit of threat helps and over the span of the fight the IGC Dot is pretty important.

[Agooz]

I am also noting the loss of Jet Charge, IGC buffs, and the Crit talents for RP. Are you planning on using taunt to maintain threat. Every little bit of threat helps and over the span of the fight the IGC Dot is pretty important.

 

The whole point of the spec is to see whether or not have a 25% mitigation up almost every 20sec outweigh the 6% Shield/4% absorb.

I have the crit chance talent for RP, you just lose the crit surge, which I dont think it is all that. as far as IGC damage, of course you are talking about the IGC enhancements. So what I would like to know is in a 15sec rotation, how much damage are these IGC enhancements contributing to damage? IM would be doing at the very least 1600damage (non-crit) and more if you weave it in more often than every 18sec.

I am not suggesting that this is a superior build to a full ST. But I certainly see some merit. Especially on a boss like Bonethrasher where you dont need a tank at all. Even on SOA, final phase. Switching to CGC is adding a TON of damage to the raid that could make a difference.

The "threat" issue or having the full ST defense may be a decent argument if we're talking like NM or something.

[TheOpf]

The whole point of the spec is to see whether or not have a 25% mitigation up almost every 20sec outweigh the 6% Shield/4% absorb.

I have the crit chance talent for RP, you just lose the crit surge, which I dont think it is all that. as far as IGC damage, of course you are talking about the IGC enhancements. So what I would like to know is in a 15sec rotation, how much damage are these IGC enhancements contributing to damage? IM would be doing at the very least 1600damage (non-crit) and more if you weave it in more often than every 18sec.

I am not suggesting that this is a superior build to a full ST. But I certainly see some merit. Especially on a boss like Bonethrasher where you dont need a tank at all. Even on SOA, final phase. Switching to CGC is adding a TON of damage to the raid that could make a difference.

The "threat" issue or having the full ST defense may be a decent argument if we're talking like NM or something.

 

I couldn't' tell you really. I rarely tank unless I pull off the tank. Our guild is mainly Assassins and Guardian tanks so I generally dps. There is a mitigation spreadsheet out there somewhere.

[Obtena]

Spec probably works rather well with the right healer. As an Operative healer, I can imagine a significantly simpler rotation and perhaps more favourable energy management in a situation where more periodic burst healing is favoured over sustained heals. I believe the longer energy shield approach you are suggesting could be that scenario.

 

I guess the question is if the damage you mitigate with a longer shield time and lower sheild/absorb specs is equal or greater than the damage you mitigate over that time with a more typical tanking spec and shorter spec. I can't answer that but I think it's rather situational. I would be awesome to test that when BW allow for multiple specs (on the fly hopefully).

Edited April 26, 2012 by Obtena

[thrakkemarn]

Why is threat being talked about at all? It's not going to be an issue. Taunt.

 

Let's focus on the real question: is this a viable end-game tanking spec for mitigation?

First of all, if your true intent is to use this for tanking, the spec should be adjusted a bit:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0Rrd0rZZdIbrdMM.1

 

Now, the question of whether Energy Shield can replace the lost tanking skills.

 

When compared to a pure, optimized tanking spec you are giving up the following:

Power Armor - 2% Damage Reduction

Supercommando 4-pc bonus - 2% Defense vs ALL

Empowered Tech - 6% Shield Chance

Heat Screen - 8% Absorption (fully stacked, which it will be most of the time, typically 7 GCDs into a fight)

Jet Charge - A ranged interrupt ability (not to be discounted!)

 

You are gaining:

Infrared Sensors - 2% RANGED and TECH Defense only

Degauss - an extra snare-break (useful on some boss fights)

Integrated Cardio Package - 3% Endurance

Combat Medic 2-pc bonus - +3sec Energy shield for a total of 18-seconds

Energy Rebounder - Reduces the cooldown of Energy by 3sec every 1.5sec

 

So the key is figuring how much Energy Rebounder actually reduces Energy Shield in a boss fight.

Reviewing logs of Toth and Zorn fights, I am getting hit every ~1.5 seconds ... BUT sometimes it's less than 1.5 seconds and then MORE than 1.5 seconds for the next hit. So Energy Rebounder is either getting consecutive ticks at 1.5secs OR ticks at ~3 second intervals. On average lets play devil's advocate against this spec and say it ticks every 2.5 seconds. So (napkin math time!) every 2.5 seconds Energy Shield has it's cooldown reduces by 3 seconds. Roughly speaking you'll have Energy Shield up every 50-60 seconds.

 

So we're talking about what? An average of a little over 8% damage reduction from Energy Shield (18 sec up-time followed by ~40 secs down). That is a LOT of damage reduction. A gain of ~6% DR over pure tank spec, and although you lose the 6% shield and 8% absorb, those are only useful vs kinetic/energy damage. Energy Shield reduces ALL damage. Using it slightly tactically instead of purely on cooldown you can have it up for all the most damages phases on every boss, or just use it on CD to maximize DR.

 

The foil to this math is that it only works when you get hit. When you dodge attacks from defense or Oil Slick the DR from Energy Shield goes down somewhat. On one Toth and Zorn fight I popped Oil Slick and subsequently was missed by attacks for 7 seconds straight. This would have increased the CD on Energy Shield by ~6-12 seconds.

 

So, in conclusion: This might actually be a viable tanking spec! A lot depends on whether the very inconsistent damage you take is better or worse for healers. Defense is weighted even less usefully in this spec than pure tank. It's certainly worth trying and I will talk to my healers about it for our next EC story mode run.

Edited April 26, 2012 by thrakkemarn

[Agooz]

Why is threat being talked about at all? It's not going to be an issue. Taunt.

 

Let's focus on the real question: is this a viable end-game tanking spec for mitigation?

First of all, if your true intent is to use this for tanking, the spec should be adjusted a bit:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0Rrd0rZZdIbrdMM.1

 

Now, the question of whether Energy Shield can replace the lost tanking skills.

 

When compared to a pure, optimized tanking spec you are giving up the following:

Power Armor - 2% Damage Reduction

Supercommando 4-pc bonus - 2% Defense vs ALL

Empowered Tech - 6% Shield Chance

Heat Screen - 8% Absorption (fully stacked, which it will be most of the time, typically 7 GCDs into a fight)

Jet Charge - A ranged interrupt ability (not to be discounted!)

 

You are gaining:

Infrared Sensors - 2% RANGED and TECH Defense only

Degauss - an extra snare-break (useful on some boss fights)

Integrated Cardio Package - 3% Endurance

Combat Medic 2-pc bonus - +3sec Energy shield for a total of 18-seconds

Energy Rebounder - Reduces the cooldown of Energy by 3sec every 1.5sec

 

So the key is figuring how much Energy Rebounder actually reduces Energy Shield in a boss fight.

Reviewing logs of Toth and Zorn fights, I am getting hit every ~1.5 seconds ... BUT sometimes it's less than 1.5 seconds and then MORE than 1.5 seconds for the next hit. So Energy Rebounder is either getting consecutive ticks at 1.5secs OR ticks at ~3 second intervals. On average lets play devil's advocate against this spec and say it ticks every 2.5 seconds. So (napkin math time!) every 2.5 seconds Energy Shield has it's cooldown reduces by 3 seconds. Roughly speaking you'll have Energy Shield up every 50-60 seconds.

 

So we're talking about what? An average of a little over 8% damage reduction from Energy Shield (18 sec up-time followed by ~40 secs down). That is a LOT of damage reduction. A gain of ~6% DR over pure tank spec, and although you lose the 6% shield and 8% absorb, those are only useful vs kinetic/energy damage. Energy Shield reduces ALL damage. Using it slightly tactically instead of purely on cooldown you can have it up for all the most damages phases on every boss, or just use it on CD to maximize DR.

 

The foil to this math is that it only works when you get hit. When you dodge attacks from defense or Oil Slick the DR from Energy Shield goes down somewhat. On one Toth and Zorn fight I popped Oil Slick and subsequently was missed by attacks for 7 seconds straight. This would have increased the CD on Energy Shield by ~6-12 seconds.

 

So, in conclusion: This might actually be a viable tanking spec! A lot depends on whether the very inconsistent damage you take is better or worse for healers. Defense is weighted even less usefully in this spec than pure tank. It's certainly worth trying and I will talk to my healers about it for our next EC story mode run.

 

Thank you for taking the time to add this info. I was wrong about a couple of things as I initially wrote the OP in haste. Heat Screen is 8% absorb not 4% as I have said. Your napkin math is much closer than mine.

 

Now after taking the time to do my own napkin math, I find the following:

- Getting hit every 3 sec. Would give you a 42sec cooldown after the shield expires.

- Getting hit every 2.5 sec. Would give you a 36sec cooldown after the shield expires.

- Getting hit every 2 sec. Would give you a 30sec cooldown after shield expires.

- Getting hit every 1.5 sec. Would give you a 21sec cooldown after shield expires.

 

If we take an avg of these, it would be around: 32sec cooldown after shield expires, which makes Energy Shield have an average 50sec total cooldown. That means in a 6min fight, you'd be able (on average) use Energy Shield (8) times, for a total of 144sec. That's 40% of the time being able to mitigate 25% damage on everything.

 

Like you said, maybe with the right healer, a little communication, there are situations where this would relief some healing pressure. And of course the upside is the ability to add a lot of dps when tanking is not needed.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Agooz

[thrakkemarn]

If we take an avg of these, it would be around: 32sec cooldown after shield expires, which makes Energy Shield have an average 50sec total cooldown. That means in a 6min fight, you'd be able (on average) use Energy Shield (8) times, for a total of 144sec. That's 40% of the time being able to mitigate 25% damage on everything.

 

Yeah, ~50 seconds is what I suspect the cooldown would be. But on a 6 minute fight that's only 7 uses unless you use it before the pull even starts. Realistically you'd want to have it up at the end rather than the start, so 7 at most. A 5-minute fight is a more useful metric for this game, so probably 6 uses. 6x18 = 108 seconds out of a 300 second fight. So approximately 33% of the 25% averaging out to ~8% in a realistic approximation of DR. It could be even higher, I'm being conservative here and it STILL looks good.

 

I'll try to get some actual logs of fights with this build to see it's in-game performance.

[Agooz]

Yeah, ~50 seconds is what I suspect the cooldown would be. But on a 6 minute fight that's only 7 uses unless you use it before the pull even starts. Realistically you'd want to have it up at the end rather than the start, so 7 at most. A 5-minute fight is a more useful metric for this game, so probably 6 uses. 6x18 = 108 seconds out of a 300 second fight. So approximately 33% of the 25% averaging out to ~8% in a realistic approximation of DR. It could be even higher, I'm being conservative here and it STILL looks good.

 

I'll try to get some actual logs of fights with this build to see it's in-game performance.

 

I am very excited to see how it plays out. I think the specifics of spending the points in this spec is not set in stone, as long as Energy Rebounder is achieved. I think the rest will be up to the playstyle and what deficiency each specific tank will feel needs to make up for, which will include their own operation makeup, healers and whatnot.

I spent over 1mil in a week on gear, so I will have to save up a little more before I try it out myself. 120k remodding per piece is ridiculous!

[Anavarra]

Yeah, ~50 seconds is what I suspect the cooldown would be. But on a 6 minute fight that's only 7 uses unless you use it before the pull even starts. Realistically you'd want to have it up at the end rather than the start, so 7 at most. A 5-minute fight is a more useful metric for this game, so probably 6 uses. 6x18 = 108 seconds out of a 300 second fight. So approximately 33% of the 25% averaging out to ~8% in a realistic approximation of DR. It could be even higher, I'm being conservative here and it STILL looks good.

 

I'll try to get some actual logs of fights with this build to see it's in-game performance.

 

Don't forget though, you have to look at the actual average mitigation gain from the shorter cooldown on Energy Shield. Assuming a 5-minute fight, with a standard tank spec and gear, you'll pop Energy Shield 3 times. That's 45 seconds of ES uptime for 300 seconds of fight, or 15% uptime, for an average damage reduction of 3.75%. So, in that scenario, you're only gaining 4.5% Damage mitigation over the course of the fight with the Bubble setup.

Additionally:

Gaining 2% melee ranged defense from Infrared sensors.

You're losing 2% Damage mitigation from Power Armor.

Losing 2% Defense/Resist from the 4-piece SC bonus.

Losing 6% Shield and 8% absorb (which, according my math is about ~6% damage mitigation against melee/ranged attacks).

 

So, assuming you're taking mostly melee/ranged attacks (like most boss fights), it's going to be a net damage mitigation loss, though not by too much. On a pure Force/Tech fight (Soa) you'll take a little less damage on average (2.5% more mitigation), but you'll also resist 2% less often. So, kind of a wash.

 

Threat generation will definitely be worse for this build. The only Pyro DPS talents that do anything while you're tanking are incendiary missile and Supercharged Rail. Your Rail Shots will cost only 8 heat, but PPA will not proc while running IGC, so they're still a 15-second cooldown. You also lose 30% armor pen on Rail Shot (since you're not specced for Puncture). You lose the 6% crit to Flame Burst/Flame Thrower, 30% Crit damage to Rocket Punch (which is a big loss since Rocket Punch crits a lot thanks to Flame Shield), The loss of IGC uptime may be negated by the addition of incendiary missile, but maintaining incendiary missile will cost significantly more heat that IGC. And since you don't have Heat Blast for additional threat/heat dispersion, heat will be more of a hassle to deal with.

 

So, basically, as a tank, you'll be significantly worse than a full Shield Tech. Your healers may be able to keep you up, but you will take more damage, and you'll deal less damage. Switching to CGC to DPS, I would imagine that you'll probably do significantly more damage than a full ST tank would do though, because of all the CGC talents in Pyro.

 

So really, that's the tradeoff from speccing hybrid like this. Your tanking will be worse, but your DPS when not tanking will probably be better.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Anavarra

[TheronFett]

So in summary, you would loose 6% shield chance, 4% absorb, and maybe another 2% mitigation if you specced Power Armor, but isnt having Energy Shield available to use a whole minute sooner worth it? not to mention and extra 3sec on the shield??

 

No thanks.

 

I would MUCH rather have flat mitigation that has no downtime as opposed to an already weak shield that can only be used for a short duration once every couple of minutes.