celebrei Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Premades have something even good pugs dont: Everyone focus this target, now focus this target. Can only get dynamic target focusing in groups with vent, which makes it a steamroll. imo I concur, you simply cannot do that in a pug group. Unless of course you have 8 hands Edited April 25, 2012 by celebrei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkirin Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Asking to further split up the warzone pool prior to a cross server warzone pool is very selfish. Please allow warzones to pop for those of us willing to queue. Please Save this argument until there are enough players in each pool to even consider splitting people up. I solo queue, I understand what that means and enjoy the challenges it brings. Edited April 25, 2012 by Elkirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digtahk Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 This issue only affects imbalanced servers, the system will always attempt to match premade with premade before filling the remaining 4 slots in each group. The problem is that often you get 4 PVE nabs that group together and so it feels as though you are playing in a pug vs premade when this is not the case. If you are from an imbalanced server then changing then you have a right to complain and the real fix will be the introduction of cross server queuing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viphen Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) I share your sentiment and in response I've heavily lobbied and rallied my server around the concept of community PvP. My guild maintains an open Ventrilo and global chat channel to help people group with each other and with our guildmates. I've met plenty of great people made lots of friends. Just take the initiative. Edited April 25, 2012 by Viphen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothQuick Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Empire pvp is almost dead on my server. A lot have rerolled on rep side for pvp because the empire left that queues is so bad, its making me want to vomit when I do play. I cant see the matchmaking system being much fun for cross server either, if it matches us up against people on our own server. It will just give us premades versus pugs again. Really should separate the way it matches us up for cross server at the very least for non ranked games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedQWERTY Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 A vast majority of wz players are pugs, premades give an unfair advantage over a pug team, a premade group must be removed from a pug match entirely and put them in a wz fight against other premades. Sounds good, all I hear it's all about skill (not gear, right .. or farming pugs) . Can't imagine these hardcore pvp'ers complaining about actually having a challenge... if they would, well then it's just them asking for more farming material. Couldn't be that, it's the challenge after all. I do would want to see X-server Q's also. They are way to long as it is right now on most servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celebrei Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 This issue only affects imbalanced servers, the system will always attempt to match premade with premade before filling the remaining 4 slots in each group. The problem is that often you get 4 PVE nabs that group together and so it feels as though you are playing in a pug vs premade when this is not the case. If you are from an imbalanced server then changing then you have a right to complain and the real fix will be the introduction of cross server queuing Can we get official confirmation that cross server queuing will be implemented in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SidisAxis Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 It's true, you might only que with 4 other people and use vent or mumble to coordinate your attacks but it's still a major major advantage over a group of 8 pug players, if adding insult to injury wasn't enough, you have 8 players making two parties then by dumb luck are grouped all together in the same Warzone match with them coordinating their gameplan and attacks on mumble/vent, it's so unfair and unjust that pugs must suffer the humiliation and disgrace of defeat against an unfair match between pug and premade, this must be stopped or no non-premade players will enter wz matches again. Who would have thought playing with friends would happen in a mmo !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybird Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 there is no way a serious premade has fun farming a pug group. pugs will give up as soon as they notice its a premade. how can you possibly have fun not getting any competitive games. sorry but if you think its fun then something is wrong with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurokDarkstar Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Premades are a PITA, but I'm not about to request this game become even more of a single player game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-Serp Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 there is no way a serious premade has fun farming a pug group. pugs will give up as soon as they notice its a premade. how can you possibly have fun not getting any competitive games. sorry but if you think its fun then something is wrong with you. A lot of people have fun with that somehow. I don't get it either, but judging from some posts I've seen on these forums some people take serious pride in rolling PUGs. You'd think it'd get old for them, but it doesn't seem to at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sippix Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. I feel like I'm in some strange dimension where people complain about things that have been in MMO's for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufasach Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Everything in this game is geared towards having people working together whether its in PVE or PVP. The best gear drops in 8 and 16 man operations and it requires a focused group working together. PVP is no different. Anybody whining about other people having the advantage of teamwork is completely missing the point. PVP is ALL about teamwork. You need specific classes doing specific jobs in specific situations and each understanding the role of the others. you need clear and concise communication which will be via voice comms. If you dont have this now, you had better get on it soon because PVP will continue to evolve in a way that will make it essential to win. If you are not prepared to at least attempt to organise like this but would rather whine, blame Bioware, cry out to the Gods to relieve you of the burden of in-game injustice and so on, then you should probably unplug and take up knitting because you have no future in PVP other than getting hammered . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybird Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 A lot of people have fun with that somehow. I don't get it either, but judging from some posts I've seen on these forums some people take serious pride in rolling PUGs. You'd think it'd get old for them, but it doesn't seem to at all. lol this is so true i know. i must be old school or something. if i were in a premade i would be pissed with no competition. i would probly be on here posting about wanting a premade vs premade que. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdidion Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 It's pointless to argue like this, all you have are the people that win vs. the people that don't win. The people that are winning right now are in support of the current system while the people that arent winning right now do not support the current system. As for me the current system sucks donkey ********s because pre 1.2 i won all the time now post 1.2 I cant win for nothing and its depressing. THANKS BIOWARE for ruining pvp with this patch I hope to god you fix it, pvp queue taking 20 minutes to an hour sometimes, when they use to pop immediatlely to taking no longer than 10 minutes THANKS BIOWARE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybird Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 PVP is ALL about teamwork. You need specific classes doing specific jobs in specific situations and each understanding the role of the others. you need clear and concise communication which will be via voice comms. If you dont have this now, you had better get on it soon because PVP will continue to evolve in a way that will make it essential to win. . what you posted right here is the unfair advantage most of us are talking about. SOLO que dose not alow you to pick and choose what classes are in the group. SOLO que'ers are not going to all get together on a voice comm. so yes premade vs pugs/SOLO que'ers is unfair. you were trying to make a point on people whinning but you basically stated how its unfair for premade vs pug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorinHyvek Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Once cross-server PvP is added, I could see breaking up Pre-Made vs PUG. But until that comes, a lot of servers don't have the population to split the two, and Premades are kind of an important part of PvP in MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybird Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Once cross-server PvP is added, I could see breaking up Pre-Made vs PUG. But until that comes, a lot of servers don't have the population to split the two, and Premades are kind of an important part of PvP in MMOs. very true server merges to fix the population and cross server que would help with splitting them up a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPunitor Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 lol this is so true i know. i must be old school or something. if i were in a premade i would be pissed with no competition. i would probly be on here posting about wanting a premade vs premade que. I was in a warzone with my premade against some seriously skilled players, including a lev 24 pyrotech that managed to top 300k damage. Needless to point out, our premade still roflstomped them. After the match i offered a few of them the opportunity to join our guild or maybe join our group for pvp. Most said no and said that they prefer pugging it. Now i just laugh when my guild destroys these players time after time. I guess some players prefer to lose and whine on the forums than join a guild and run their own groups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starskee Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Keep seeing the word unfair thrown around. Pro-tip, it would only be an 'unfair' advantage if it is an advantage that no one else is capable of matching despite effort or skill. A good example of an unfair advantage would be having a button that does 20k damage on crit, and it spam-able. Or if there was a GM running around invisible killing anyone that attacks you. Yes it sucks losing repeatedly to the same premade, but there are workarounds, many mentioned here. Get your own premade, or just be a leader in your pugs. You can't win them all, and sometimes you just end up on bad teams repeatedly. Just take a break or do some dailies to try and offset your queue times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporkbrigade Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I haven't touched Rift since SWTOR came out, but when I played they already had what this thread is asking for. They had cross server queuing already in place, and they they introduced a restriction where more then 2 people in a group were considered a pre-made. Pre-mades were only queued against each other. It was terrible. The 'pre-made' que times became horrible, and the pool of players were way bigger then what's available here in SWTOR's largest servers. Every organized pvp guild was forced to form 2 man groups, then count down in vent to queue. It snowballed from there, as more people made 2 man pre-mades, the queue times for pre-mades became worse, and more people started duo-queueing. There just aren't as many pre-mades as everyone convinces themselves exist. Plus, only a certain portion of them actually want the challenge pre-made vs. pre-made would offer. Try to rope them off in their own area, with hour long queue ties, and they're going to just start count down queueing, which is annoying, but surprisingly still effective. People who Solo queue won't see a difference, since you'll still be fighting pre-mades as much as before, but pre-mades wil now have to jump through ridiculous hoops in an attempt to still play together. People WANT to play together. The only way you'll counter it is to form your own group, or accept the challenge that solo queueing provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarchedB Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Soon as rated wzs come out that solves this problem. I que with my guildies/RL friends every night with 6 of us, in vent. Huttball is farmed in 2-3min wins. It is awsome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 This is why I can't wait until cross server wz's. The groups that are dominating right now and ruining pvp will probably stop playing once they start getting rolled on. And I always know when we fight a pre-made, because our group is usually short by 1 or 2, so it's messing up the queue system too. And while in there pay attention to the players, especially same guilds, you will see some amazing exploits and hacks. - PvP will always be flawed, because humans are playing. It will never be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDendory Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Some of the premade arguments are really funny. At any hour of the day there's barely enough people queuing Republic side to make 1 group. Most of them are tanks and very few, if any healer. So somehow, these people are supposed to group up together and that will solve all their problems? Right.... Meanwhile the Imp premades practice against each others, and guess what happens when the Rep pug faces them. The simple fact is that premades should only face other premades. There is no reason for this not to be the case. The only reason anyone would be against that is because they just enjoy winning all the time by destroying pugs. That's like a pro team who constantly goes play against an amateur league then wonders why they're winning every single time. Every sport makes fair matches, with amateur, pro levels and more. Even FPS games have balancing, with any modern FPS game scrambling teams when one is dominating, switching new players around when one has too many players, etc. The fact that MMO games haven't learned that yet is mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorinHyvek Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Some of the premade arguments are really funny. At any hour of the day there's barely enough people queuing Republic side to make 1 group. Most of them are tanks and very few, if any healer. So somehow, these people are supposed to group up together and that will solve all their problems? Right.... Meanwhile the Imp premades practice against each others, and guess what happens when the Rep pug faces them. The simple fact is that premades should only face other premades. There is no reason for this not to be the case. The only reason anyone would be against that is because they just enjoy winning all the time by destroying pugs. That's like a pro team who constantly goes play against an amateur league then wonders why they're winning every single time. Every sport makes fair matches, with amateur, pro levels and more. Even FPS games have balancing, with any modern FPS game scrambling teams when one is dominating, switching new players around when one has too many players, etc. The fact that MMO games haven't learned that yet is mind boggling. Eventually, yes. But on many servers, there simply aren't enough people for this to be practical, especially without 8-man queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts