Griefing: Everyone's Problem

[Drakkip]

Somehow, I knew that the event ending wouldn't stop the complaining.

IF BioWare saw a problem...they could have addressed it at anytime while the event was live. IF there were real issues, they could have hot fixed it.

Neither of these things happened.

I'm sure they saw all 12 versions of this thread. I'm sure they know that a handful of people were unhappy.

But they did not address it or fix a thing.

Why is that?

 

Because the event was working AS INTENDED.

 

If getting sick and then exploding inside EV made you immune to mobs attacks and you could solo all of EV, could you also claim it was working as intended? Just because they didn't post on it saying it was a glitch does not automatically equate to that it was working as intended.

 

This coupled with the fact that an unflagged opposite faction player exploding on you didn't flag you lends very heavily towards this being an unintended glitch.

 

 

 

Just because YOU are unhappy, doesn't mean something is broken or being abused.

 

No, it's broken because it contradicts the set out "rules" of PVE servers. I am neither happy/unhappy about this as I was not ever flagged during the event and didn't know about. I don't have a dog in this fight, I am however able to objectively review the mechanic that allowed people to be flagged as well as the rules as given by BW for PVE servers and draw the conclusion that if there is a work around that somehow allows faction A to flag without faction B casting any spells, entering a designated PVP area or providing any sort of action that could be considered consent then that's a bug.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Drakkip

[Thlaylie]

There is a simple and FUN solution to this involuntary pvp flagging problem.

 

I call it the "Roach Motel Cure."

 

BW needs to run a similar event except make it so that the only way this could happen is by a conscious griefing choice on the part of the antagonist in specific vulnerable areas like vendors, again similar to this recent event.

 

The reward for successfully causing someone to become flagged for pvp against their will is a temp ban, "Thank You For Playing."

 

"Roaches go in, but they don't come out!"

Edited April 24, 2012 by Thlaylie

[Elhanan]

The Event has caused me no inconvenience whatsoever. In fact, it spices things up a little when the containment guards jump you on the way to your ship. Sick of all the QQ TBH..

 

Who is QQ? I am re-subbing and getting 30 free days atop that; have to in order to post here, after all....

[Elhanan]

Spreading the Rakghoul Plague to another player is not Griefing, but doing so on a PvE server in a Rest Zone of the Fleet w/o permission might be.

[Elhanan]

GASP, camping the station? perhaps they were there for the same reasons you were. if you do not want the plague then take the vaciene. also, not to mention you have plenty of time to run away from an exploding person.

 

The Rakghoul event was great, i hope they do more events!!!

 

Me too, but w/o the Griefing.....

[Elhanan]

Overlooked? It was the point of the event. To be immune you had to dig into your pocket. 2k...big wow.

 

After each Death; perhaps it is.

 

2k is more than a lvl 6 lockbox, and those are not readily available at 10th. Those wanting to remain immune for Group play may spend even more, as they are likely to die more often. Some starting planets have no serum, thus catching it on the Fleet became more likely. Etc

 

But the point of this thread is not lambasting the past Event, but to learn from it, and to better inform Bioware of our needs; those that were met, and those that fell short.

[Holden_Dissent]

Do you want the plague?

 

Click Yes/No

 

Do you want to be buffed by XXXJedi?

 

Click Yes/No

 

 

When does it end?

[amantheil]

Spreading the Rakghoul Plague to another player is not Griefing, but doing so on a PvE server in a Rest Zone of the Fleet w/o permission might be.

 

It might be.

 

But it isn't.

[Eutoxis]

What immersion?

 

You really think that the governments would have allowed people to leave Tatooine? You really think it wouldn't have been better contained on the fleet? You call that immersion? Real immersion would have been squads of really big guys (not 3 hit dead guys from my SAGE healer) coming after you to keep you from entering the general population.

 

It could have been much better. But for a first event, it was to be expected. But don't pull the immersion bull, because so many things about it were way off, story wise.

 

Edit: Any government would have shot down ANY ship suspected of having the plague aboard. Especially with what they said on the news. A true quarantine, you would have never been able to leave the planet. They would have shot you down on sight. If it had done that, then you would have a lot less QQ... and immersion would not be broken.

 

Oh, there you go thinking again.

 

You just don't get it.

 

Their fun comes from the unhappiness they inflict on you.

 

In a civilized society, they would be locked up or treated.

[Eutoxis]

just make PVE servers be truly PVE. remove flagging entirely. that would be hilarious.

 

congratulations. you just thought more about pve/pvp than the entirety of the gaming industry.

[Freyar]

Now that the first Event is a part of TOR history, I would ask Bioware and the community as a whole to improve the game by better defining what is intended to be seen as Griefing, aid the Players in seeing it removed, and disciplining those that are found guilty of using such methods in spoiling the play of others.

 

In the Event, game mechanics were used to interfere with the play of those not wanting to join the Event, simply shop at various stores, and travel across the Galactic map by crippling the Fleet areas. Camping was seen on the Fleet, as well as various markets, Med Stations, and Rest Zones ther and on planets. Mechanics apparently were used to exploit the PvP rules, and ruin play of others. Etc.

 

This is all Griefing in my opinion, but it is the opinion of Bioware iwhich needs to be better clarified, posted, and enforced. If Players believe that the situations are too vague and left unattended, they may not report violations. If the PvP rules are not clarified, we do not know what are considered Safe Zones and illegal mechanics. And this game belongs to us all in some part.

 

I believe all of us seek to better the game, and hope for improved environs in which to play them; not repeating the mistakes of other MMO's and allowing Griefing to gain a foothold and define play would seem to be a valuable place to start.

 

Constructive thoughts?

 

Still arglebargling over this?

 

The only legitimate complaint was the PvP flagging bug on PvE servers. Beyond that, the event was fine.

 

Person infected you during the event? Not Griefing

Person camping you in PvP on the sole place you can respawn? Possibly Griefing (Pending Bioware's interpretation.)

Person undercuts you on GTN? Not Griefing

[Tatebomb]

OP you REALLY need to let this go. After a week of posting in the other thread have you learned nothing? Some people will agree with you but most will not. It was at worst a MINOR inconvenience. Dying had zero consequences in fact had profit. And 2k for a vaccine isn't much. Yeah I get you were using a level 10 at the time but is he your only character? And it was also pointed out in the other thread many people would have GIVEN you one if you but asked. Oh wait I remember you believe this is an Xbox game and have to use for other people except to QQ for over a week about getting brutally attacked by the plague. Yes we get it you didn't like the event. Its over now let it go.

[JeffleighB]

PVP and why I never do it: Any event that contains an element of pvp - I never do

 

I know there are a lot of lovely people that like PVP - but for me the attitude of many make me not to want to be anywhere near them

 

I don't see why other people should have the right to interfere with my game play

 

Consistently, where ever there is open PVP in an MMO, you seem to get people who get delight in killing anyone lower than themselves, often many levels below them

 

What delight they get out of this I can't imagine - as you certainly could not call it PVP - simply some child going around killing people because it thinks this is funny

[Elhanan]

omg...this is too funny....the OP was one of the few crusaders on the other event thread, and since that obviously failed to get a reaction out of BW, he can't let it go.

 

Now he's back propping up another thread.

 

I only know this OP because he's on my ignore list.

 

Was also speaking of this pre-launch; hence my sig. Wanna be accurate....

[Freyar]

I don't see why other people should have the right to interfere with my game play

 

People keep using the word: "Right". I don't think it means what people think it means.

 

Consistently, where ever there is open PVP in an MMO, you seem to get people who get delight in killing anyone lower than themselves, often many levels below them

 

Not really. Open PvP can be fun, but not when it's as lopsided as morons in the other thread tend to do. I'm all for PvP, I'm all for players having an impact on others, even in PvE, to an extent. But higher levels going after lower levels isn't really a legitimate Open PvP attempt.

[Elhanan]

Still arglebargling over this?

 

The only legitimate complaint was the PvP flagging bug on PvE servers. Beyond that, the event was fine.

 

Person infected you during the event? Not Griefing

Person camping you in PvP on the sole place you can respawn? Possibly Griefing (Pending Bioware's interpretation.)

Person undercuts you on GTN? Not Griefing

 

Let's pretend this is accutate. Those with legitimate complaints of Griefing were still not addressed in a timely fashion, and need to be insured that the same Griefing does not continue, nor get repeated in the next Event.

 

For these and the others with complaints that are believed to be valid, Bioware needs to be informed and hopefully respond in a fashion to insure that such incidents are eliminated.

[GnatB]

There was a lot of griefing involved in the plague. Intentionally interfering with somebody elses gameplay with no real benefit to your own = griefing. Non-griefers were happily crowding into areas full of people wanting to get infected. Griefers were standing around the mailboxes, GTN, etc. Fewer victims, but the ones there most likely didn't want to be infected.

 

Indirect PvP has always been a tool of griefers in every game that allowed it. (and was usually quickly fixed). This plague is pretty much pure indirect PvP. Not surprisingly, it was a heyday for griefers. And they were actually rewarded for it. (though, not so much as those that didn't use it to grief)

 

So yeah. It was a stupid idea. Hopefully Bioware will learn.

[Kaphik]

What immersion?

 

You really think that the governments would have allowed people to leave Tatooine? You really think it wouldn't have been better contained on the fleet? You call that immersion? Real immersion would have been squads of really big guys (not 3 hit dead guys from my SAGE healer) coming after you to keep you from entering the general population.

 

It could have been much better. But for a first event, it was to be expected. But don't pull the immersion bull, because so many things about it were way off, story wise.

 

Edit: Any government would have shot down ANY ship suspected of having the plague aboard. Especially with what they said on the news. A true quarantine, you would have never been able to leave the planet. They would have shot you down on sight. If it had done that, then you would have a lot less QQ... and immersion would not be broken.

 

You are assuming that the government in question would handle things absolutely perfectly. Perhaps in the real world it would work as you described, but certainly not in the movies. And this game is a lot more like a movie than real life. Immersion doesn't mean realistic, immersion means feeling like you are part of the story/game/movie/etc.

[United_Strafes]

Now that the first Event is a part of TOR history, I would ask Bioware and the community as a whole to improve the game by better defining what is intended to be seen as Griefing, aid the Players in seeing it removed, and disciplining those that are found guilty of using such methods in spoiling the play of others.

 

In the Event, game mechanics were used to interfere with the play of those not wanting to join the Event, simply shop at various stores, and travel across the Galactic map by crippling the Fleet areas. Camping was seen on the Fleet, as well as various markets, Med Stations, and Rest Zones ther and on planets. Mechanics apparently were used to exploit the PvP rules, and ruin play of others. Etc.

 

This is all Griefing in my opinion, but it is the opinion of Bioware iwhich needs to be better clarified, posted, and enforced. If Players believe that the situations are too vague and left unattended, they may not report violations. If the PvP rules are not clarified, we do not know what are considered Safe Zones and illegal mechanics. And this game belongs to us all in some part.

 

I believe all of us seek to better the game, and hope for improved environs in which to play them; not repeating the mistakes of other MMO's and allowing Griefing to gain a foothold and define play would seem to be a valuable place to start.

 

Constructive thoughts?

 

Ya here's something constructive, qq get over it, it was called a world evet for a reason.

[Dralanna]

Let's pretend this is accutate. Those with legitimate complaints of Griefing were still not addressed in a timely fashion, and need to be insured that the same Griefing does not continue, nor get repeated in the next Event.

 

For these and the others with complaints that are believed to be valid, Bioware needs to be informed and hopefully respond in a fashion to insure that such incidents are eliminated.

 

How do you know they weren't addressed? Do you think BW makes a public announcement every time they issue a warning to someone?

 

That's really what it boils down to... do you want to know what griefing is? It's what BW says it is. All you can do is report instances you think qualify and leave it in their hands. They're not going to tell you what action they take... nor should they. You can keep screaming "help help I'm being griefed" till you're blue in the face... and maybe BW agrees with you and does something about it... maybe they don't. Either way, they're probably not going to tell you what action they take against your alleged griefer. So make your complaint and move along.

 

I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve with the public crusade, but I'm fairly certain it would be far more effective to complain in game. Posting here, just leads to people (many people, apparently) disagreeing with you. Report it and let BW decide.

[Cleet_Xia]

I really expected this thread to be about sith armies camping the republic town in the dune sea on PvP servers. Or for it to be about people getting involuntarily flagged for PvP on PvE servers.

 

How did this event negatively effect anyone...

1) A level 10 gets the disease, cant afford the vaccine, so they die 20minutes later, and it costs them 20 credits to repair their gear. BIG WHOOP

2) anyone who didn't want to participate after doing the quezst series for the first time, got 4 vaccines and about 30K credits - that was enough vaccine and dough for 19 vaccinations - or as much as 95 HOURS of vaccinated play.

3) WHY on EARTH would you NOT want participate in limited time content? Content that you didn't pay for when you bought the game, that may never be seen again? Yes you had to run the quest series for 5 days to get the full armor set. And the basic quests got a little repetive.

 

BIOWARE did an awesome job with this thing, my only complaints are..

1) the client instability issues that the event introduced on Tatooine.

2) the event should have run for 2 weeks so that more casual players would have had more time (not me - I gotz mine)

3) the event needs to show up on another planet as soon as this 1 ended

4) the bug that caused speeds to arrest to progress of the disease at "light headed" so that you never became contageous, and never died from the disease. Yeah, so you didn't actually even need the vaccine to completely ignore that the event was going on......

 

....some people would ***** if you hung them with a new rope

[Elhanan]

How do you know they weren't addressed? Do you think BW makes a public announcement every time they issue a warning to someone?

 

That's really what it boils down to... do you want to know what griefing is? It's what BW says it is. All you can do is report instances you think qualify and leave it in their hands. They're not going to tell you what action they take... nor should they. You can keep screaming "help help I'm being griefed" till you're blue in the face... and maybe BW agrees with you and does something about it... maybe they don't. Either way, they're probably not going to tell you what action they take against your alleged griefer. So make your complaint and move along.

 

I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve with the public crusade, but I'm fairly certain it would be far more effective to complain in game. Posting here, just leads to people (many people, apparently) disagreeing with you. Report it and let BW decide.

 

Evidently, none of those complaining received any msg informing them of the results; not proof, but evidence towards a reasonable conclusion.

 

And I will use all the methods available that are at my disposal; not only the ones some may feel are best. But thanks for caring!

[BBQedGamer]

I play on a PvE server so didn't have to worry about rampant gankings.

 

However, as I recall, being infected and dying meant one received five (5) DNA Samples (I think that's what it was)...the same currency reward from the quests. I would get myself infected so I could either...

 

A. Infect others that were also looking to become infected. Share the wealth/love/whatever, or...

B. Kill myself by suicide jumping from the VIP area into the crowd below to get my "reward."

 

Wouldn't PvP (getting killed while infected) also gain one rewards? Would the infection not cure itself upon death? Did the PvP flag persist after death caused the disease to vanish? If the flag persisted, then that could be considered the crux of the problem. One should have had a brief immunity to being reinfected after revival unless one chooses to cancel the effect. This would allow for access to vendors in camped areas with infected nearby.

[Elhanan]

I really expected this thread to be about sith armies camping the republic town in the dune sea on PvP servers. Or for it to be about people getting involuntarily flagged for PvP on PvE servers.

 

How did this event negatively effect anyone...

1) A level 10 gets the disease, cant afford the vaccine, so they die 20minutes later, and it costs them 20 credits to repair their gear. BIG WHOOP

2) anyone who didn't want to participate after doing the quezst series for the first time, got 4 vaccines and about 30K credits - that was enough vaccine and dough for 19 vaccinations - or as much as 95 HOURS of vaccinated play.

3) WHY on EARTH would you NOT want participate in limited time content? Content that you didn't pay for when you bought the game, that may never be seen again? Yes you had to run the quest series for 5 days to get the full armor set. And the basic quests got a little repetive.

 

BIOWARE did an awesome job with this thing, my only complaints are..

1) the client instability issues that the event introduced on Tatooine.

2) the event should have run for 2 weeks so that more casual players would have had more time (not me - I gotz mine)

3) the event needs to show up on another planet as soon as this 1 ended

4) the bug that caused speeds to arrest to progress of the disease at "light headed" so that you never became contageous, and never died from the disease. Yeah, so you didn't actually even need the vaccine to completely ignore that the event was going on......

 

....some people would ***** if you hung them with a new rope

 

Your empathy and concern for others beyond your own opinion, care, and woes is astounding; a real example of the milk of human kindness.

 

 

In a nutshell, I do not care much for Space Zombies, and Plagues in Space There are exceptions, but based on what was seen, I decided that this was not one of them. So I actually play trying to avoid death; silly me.

[meatlocker]

I really can't believe anyone didn't get infected who didn't want to be infected. The 30 minute wait for people to explode the easy of getting a vaccine to save yourself, the fact that the infected actually looked infected? No infection was hard and near impossible especially with servers being underpopulated as they are. There were plenty of way to avoid infected players and more to keep yourself from being infected.