Shingara Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The part a lot of people here, and BW themselves, seem to miss, is that having "realistic" space combat has the potential to draw in more players. Sim-enthusiasts will play (and pay) just to do the Space battles, and maybe get drawn into the rest of the game along the way. That's one of the things I was looking forward to, and was hugely disappointed by the lack of, when I bought TOR. this is nail on head quote. By having a fully fleshed space wont draw anything from the ground game, Being independant of the ground game unlocks it to more and more people without impeeding on people who wish to take no part within it. I would go further in what i would like to see, Seperate space xp, levels and talent system. I wont agree with being disapointed as i never expected a full fleshed out space game and fully expected mini game space at launch but even if this arrives in december i will be more then happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utio Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I agree with that. You do remember tho that SWG had a separate team of coders/testers/support persons for space, right? It is a completely different beast than the ground aspect. I honestly don't think Bioware had/has the right resources to build a proper space system, ESPECIALLY if they try to expand on the current system rather than scrubbing it and starting from scratch (which I'd recommend they do). Yeah, let's hope they have the right people to do the job. I think the thing now is, yes they missed the boat with space at launch, but now they have an opportunity to get it right. I have everything crossed hoping they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utio Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The part a lot of people here, and BW themselves, seem to miss, is that having "realistic" space combat has the potential to draw in more players. Sim-enthusiasts will play (and pay) just to do the Space battles, and maybe get drawn into the rest of the game along the way. That's one of the things I was looking forward to, and was hugely disappointed by the lack of, when I bought TOR. Spot on. There's most definitely a Market out there for it. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) If done well it could (like JTL) keep players playing purely for it, as well as keeping players that play the whole game. It really is the aspect where SWTOR can genuinely leave WoW well behind. Absolutely, a whole second game needs to be put on top of the ground game - this would be a huge attraction for new players who even hate the ground game (like some in SWG did) and focus entirely on spending their time in a full feature space-sim exploration. I see at least 500.000+ new re-/subscriptions potential Edited April 25, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke-Laal Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The part a lot of people here, and BW themselves, seem to miss, is that having "realistic" space combat has the potential to draw in more players. Sim-enthusiasts will play (and pay) just to do the Space battles, and maybe get drawn into the rest of the game along the way. That's one of the things I was looking forward to, and was hugely disappointed by the lack of, when I bought TOR. I agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 3D Space Combat: Cool, would love to try that one! Just hope they keep the rail shooter as an optional too. Because I love it as a mini-game. Space Exploration: Seriously.. this is not Star Trek guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Space Exploration: Seriously.. this is not Star Trek guys. The Outbound Flight project would like to have a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 3D Space Combat: Cool, would love to try that one! Just hope they keep the rail shooter as an optional too. Because I love it as a mini-game. Space Exploration: Seriously.. this is not Star Trek guys. What, you think only in star trek they explore space, one of the biggest things in lore for sw is the unknown regions of space and a certain sith who went into them, explored and came back alot stronger. Also how do you think the nations and planets found each other in the 1st place, do you think someone just left a hitchhikers guide of the galaxy on the sideboard and someone picked it up and went ow there is a hyperlane there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 There is huge demand, look at the fansites and rumor sites for "Battlefront 3", look at the people requesting a new " X-Wing" game since years, look at the huge success of the fangame "Wing Commander Saga", look at "Planetside 2" buzz, and people demanding a new "Freelancer" game... the list goes on... either they do it the right way and create a whole second space combat/exploration/trading/mining game with an EvE type universe or it will disappoint like the rail foxer. It all makes sense: They could add the whole SW universe and planets, and when they add ground maps, the planets get accessible. They could set warzones on different plamets you could fly to manually... could be amazing If there was such a huge demand as you describe game developers would be scrambling to get Space Sims into the market.... But there not... Planetside is more of a hybrid FPS with a few MMO gimmicks thrown in, the first Planetside was not that huge of a success..... Also if Space Sims are so huge, Jump to Lightspeed should of been able to carry SWG to great success but it didn't.... Don't get me wrong I love Space sims myself, one of my very first computer games for the PC was Wing Commander, was the first game I had to buy a sound card for so I could hear the add-on voices... But I'm not going to be unrealistic and try and hype people into thinking that Bioware is going to release a full flight sim for SWTOR... Also the game you were describing above was SWG..... Bioware has stated more times then I can count that this is NOT Star Wars Galaxies 2.0 and it never will be...... I will agree that sandbox elements are needed in SWTOR but pure sandbox MMO's are boring, just like pure Theme Parks MMO's are boring... Bioware needs to find a happy middle ground by combing the two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 So 10 new flashpoints that will attract exactly nobody new to the game who is not already playing it and the current user base will blow through in a day or 3D space combat which will attract a completely new demographic of players. Which is the better use of the limited resources again? Jump to Lightspeed didn't save SWG.... just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 1. No one asked for it. 2. Why aren't you fixing the bugs? 3. My guild is bored, we want more operations and we won't use the space combat. 4. We need more features from SWG, like player cities and cantina dancing. My answers to these questions... 1. 3D space combat has been asked for many, many, many times on these forums, from the very first poll, just after they announced 'We have space combat' back in 2008/2009 (Not too sure which, but somewhere around there). 2. I'm sure they are working on the bugs too. After all, in 1.2 they managed to release new content and bug fixes at the same time, did they not? 3. Well, boohoo. How's about releasing some content for those people who don't like raiding, and who won't do the operations. This is an MMO, not just for you and your guild. 4. I agree. This is not SWG 2.0, but currently it is severely limited in what a player can do. Far too linear. Having some non-combat classes (or even just missions) could go a long way towards hiding the levelling grind in varied fun activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I'm one of the players who has played only the first space mission and don't care for space in TOR BECAUSE it is not Open flight space. If it were open flight multiplayer space then I would get excited for it. I imagine many others would as well. /Agreed. I tried space combat once in open beta. Never again until they haev something decent in its place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 make it so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Moonshadow Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 What, you think only in star trek they explore space, one of the biggest things in lore for sw is the unknown regions of space and a certain sith who went into them, explored and came back alot stronger. Also how do you think the nations and planets found each other in the 1st place, do you think someone just left a hitchhikers guide of the galaxy on the sideboard and someone picked it up and went ow there is a hyperlane there. Actually, Star Trek IS the only series that focuses on exploration of space. Every other sci-fi medium seems to have already done it and just want to wage war. It's kind of sad. They have no more mysteries to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) What, you think only in star trek they explore space, one of the biggest things in lore for sw is the unknown regions of space and a certain sith who went into them, explored and came back alot stronger. Also how do you think the nations and planets found each other in the 1st place, do you think someone just left a hitchhikers guide of the galaxy on the sideboard and someone picked it up and went ow there is a hyperlane there. Well, then tell me how do you expect them to make Space Exploration and the exploration of new planets something thousands of players all do together in an MMO environment? Exactly... Space 'exploration' in an MMO space will make it a single player game and I see no way to truly make it interesting. Therefore, by the Force no please! Look, it is something different when it is meant to allow some in-solar system free flight. That would be cool. But you do also know how other planets are explored right? Basicly only through old forgotten star maps (found on planets I might add) or random Lightspeed jumps. The first is not really Space Exploration, the second is a tedious and unfun activity. It is so unfun that in almost every EU reference to space exploration it is just that: referenced. Even the character most defined by random exploration; Revan, has only ever mentioned the fact he did it. Not once did you actually play him doing it. So tell me how you would see Space Exploration in an MMO game please? Because a general term does not a gaming functionality make. Edited April 25, 2012 by Devlonir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Not only would I like to keep the fail rails in place for those who claim to like them, I'd like the metrics data made available so everyone can clearly see which form of space combat is superior and by how big of a margin Yeah, I'd like to see that. It would be interesting. Personally, I think they should take away the rails for space, and redo them for pod racing. That is one instance where the rails would work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Ya gotta wonder how people can hate the "Star WARS" part of a Star Wars MMO, but I get your point. I'd also like to point out that you're wrong. There's obviously a niche for the SWG style of space sim, because pilots in SWG were the majority of the remaining subs on SWG when the doors closed. The majority of the people who stayed in SWG after the NGE flew in space. It was not the new heroics or the ground PvP that kept SWG alive. It was space PvP, pure and simple. Keyword "NICHE" What you guys want would take Bioware years to make..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yeah, I'd like to see that. It would be interesting. Personally, I think they should take away the rails for space, and redo them for pod racing. That is one instance where the rails would work properly. This could actually be a good idea. All I really just want is a simple game to spend a few dead-minutes on while waiting for other people. Current Space Combat on rails is the most fun of that kind of activity any MMO has to offer. A lot more fun than fishing surely! The reason I want it to stay is just that: I want to keep a simple mini-game I can go to whenever I want. If that turns out to be pod-racing with current space combat controls.. sure: why not!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I agree with that. You do remember tho that SWG had a separate team of coders/testers/support persons for space, right? It is a completely different beast than the ground aspect. I honestly don't think Bioware had/has the right resources to build a proper space system, ESPECIALLY if they try to expand on the current system rather than scrubbing it and starting from scratch (which I'd recommend they do). I don't know if this is still the case, but TOR's current space combat was designed by a different studio to the one that developed the ground game. Perhaps if they let the main team develop space combat, they will come up with something decent. *crosses fingers* As for expanding the current system, I think it could be done. They already have 3D models and environments, they just pre-program the camera/ship flight path so they can keep the zone small. They already have 3D movement, they just need to make it a little more sensitive to what it is currently, and take away the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The part a lot of people here, and BW themselves, seem to miss, is that having "realistic" space combat has the potential to draw in more players. Sim-enthusiasts will play (and pay) just to do the Space battles, and maybe get drawn into the rest of the game along the way. That's one of the things I was looking forward to, and was hugely disappointed by the lack of, when I bought TOR. This is something I pointed out during development, in one of the repeating space combat threads that we had going back then. Unsurprisingly, no-one listened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The Outbound Flight project would like to have a word with you. As would all those explorers who discovered the hyperspace routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Jump to Lightspeed didn't save SWG.... just saying... It also didn't cause SWG to go under. As has already been said over the past few pages, the majority of player at the end of SWG's life were the ones who played in space. Sorry abput the multi-posting, but you get a lot of people posting here overnight, so there was a lot to reply to Edited April 25, 2012 by dazednconfuzed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Keyword "NICHE" What you guys want would take Bioware years to make..... Everything is "niche", how many people of the worlds population play MMORPGs to start with. I'd say a decent space expansion would be similarly "niche" to a basic run around with sword/lightsabers ground MMORPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thamightyboro Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Was always on the cards IMO. TOR already has most the JTL team on staff, they had hinted about it a number of times on the old beta boards in the gazillion page thread we had there on it. The JTL team on SWG wasnt that big and certainly in the last few years was Hjal by himself and the amount of content that guy delivered was unreal. I really hope BW have attempted to reruit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Space Exploration: Seriously.. this is not Star Trek guys. How can you have a 3D space construct without being able to explore it? You can explore the current ground worlds, as small as they maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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