Future 3D Space Combat

[Shingara]

What proof?

 

Firstly Eve and SWG JTL are completely different games and someone who likes space combat / flight sims won't necessarily like both (or either).

 

And secondly, what about all the lesser populated space MMOs or space games with online modes (which don't include a fee and therefore should have a bigger audience)?

 

How many people here play Black Prophecy for example? It was only released in the last year or two, has a realistic physics system and is free to play (making the monthly sub barrier to potential players go away).

 

 

Claiming that because Eve has a lot of players there is proof that lots of players will want space in SWTOR is like saying that because WoW is so successful every MMO will be.

 

Well as space is well documented to be wanted by the existing playerbase with an overwelling majority we can guess that others not in the game would like it. To suggest that only the people who want space that exist within the playerbase are the only ones to want it is false and misguided.

 

Take sto for example, good space physics but totally borked by mis managment of cryptic. People like space games, more over people like variety within games especialy ones that they may play for years. The more avenues of gameplay available to the playerbase not only makes the playerbase happy but extends the reach of the game to players who may not like mmos in general in the other game genre and platform markets.

 

By not having space in a free flight model in now is doing us the playerbase no harm, the people here are quite happy to play the land game and the on rails system. Putting in a full free flight and possible exploration space game into the swtor engine would give alot of what the playerbase want, open up the game for more people and like i previously stated give another aspect to the game that it currently does not have.

 

And this doesnt take dev time away from anything else because we already know there is a seperate dev team working on space right now so any works done on this aspect and we can summise that even after its done that there will be a dedicated space dev team just as there are dedicated dev teams for PVP, Flashpoints, Operations, Legacy and social aspect etc.

 

Putting in a fully fledge space element wouldnt hurt swtor it would only make it stronger as a whole.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Shingara

[dazednconfuzed]

Well said Shingara

[Jestunhi]

I may as well stop posting now since people seem to quote my actual posts then make up what I said.

 

The proof that space combat would bring enough players to the game to be worth the development time / cost is in the name of the game? The name doesn't prove anything of the sort. Nor does the amount of people playing a free mod or the amount of people playing a virtual economy with a little semi-automated space flight thrown in.

 

Nor did I actually say that no one would want it, nor that only the current subscribers would want it.

 

If my posts aren't read before being responded to I see no point in continuing to post here. I'm sure your "proof" is completely valid, even though you are unable / unwilling to provide any of it.

[NasherUK]

TBH if they do this is needs to be massive. They added something like it to SWG and it wasn't that great gameplay wise, the space zones were tiny and for some reason where ever you went there was either NPCs fighting with each other 100% of the time, or everything was holstile towards you. It didn't make a lot of sense

[dazednconfuzed]

I may as well stop posting now since people seem to quote my actual posts then make up what I said.

 

The proof that space combat would bring enough players to the game to be worth the development time / cost is in the name of the game? The name doesn't prove anything of the sort. Nor does the amount of people playing a free mod or the amount of people playing a virtual economy with a little semi-automated space flight thrown in.

 

Nor did I actually say that no one would want it, nor that only the current subscribers would want it.

 

If my posts aren't read before being responded to I see no point in continuing to post here. I'm sure your "proof" is completely valid, even though you are unable / unwilling to provide any of it.

 

You are misreading my post, or misinterpreting the points I made.

 

Star Wars, the IP, not any one particular game, is huge. It spans over 30 years, and two generations. Each Star Wars fan has their own little fantasy about what they would wnt to do if they lived in the Star Wars universe. For some, that fantasy is being a Jedi, and saving the galaxy from evil. For others, like myself, the Jedi aspect wasn't that important. The bit we were interested in was the space combat. Flying starfighters.

 

Now, if you look at that Tides of War Freelancer mod, I wasn't just pointing out that there was a Freelancer mod out there. I was pointing out that some Star Wars fans, more particularly, the ones who like space combat and have all but been ignored by Lucasarts for the past 10 years or so, are willing to spend some 7-8 years developing a mod for a game, simply so they have have their 'flying spaceships in the Star Wars universe' fantasies fulfilled. If that is not dedication to the IP, I don't know what is.

 

That is the point I was trying to make. Not that they exist, but that there are people out there dedicated enough to Star Wars to work for years to see their SW related dreams come true.

 

If someone like Bioware came along with a true Star Wars MMO (ideally one without SWG's problems) that combined both ground and space gameplay in a well-done format, there are 30 years worth of fans there, all of whom would be happy. At least, all of whom who play computer games at least. And some of the others could probably be tempted in

 

Now do you see where I am coming from? The IP is big enough that it covers many different types of fantasy. So far, TOR caters to less than half of those.

Edited April 25, 2012 by dazednconfuzed

[Shingara]

Ye dazed, mine is to be a smuggler shipping stuff across the galaxy for profit. I dont see how what i see from within the star wars IP as invalid compared to someone running around with a light saber. Just as others want to be true bounty hunters chasing down other players on the land based game.

[utio]

You can't prove that having fully fledged space prof/combat would bring more players into the game. On the other hand, you can't prove it won't. All you can do is look at the pros and cons of having space, and hypothesise from that.

I'm willing to bet that adding a whole new element to a star wars mmo that centres around 3d space, and all that entails, will have a positive affect on subs, rather than a negative affect.

I cannot see someone unsubbing because there is full space game, which they don't have to even try, and I cannot believe a potential customer would decide not to buy the game because it has space.

[FaceShindu]

Games to look at for inspiration:

 

Elite (1984)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_%28video_game%29

 

Wing Commander (1990)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_%28video_game%29

 

Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos (2001)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_War_2:_Edge_of_Chaos

 

Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed (2004)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies:_Jump_to_Lightspeed

 

X Series by EgoSoft (Current)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_%28computer_game_series%29

 

 

How could you forget the Rogue Squadran series? And although unrelated EVE does space combat best, if your going to learn from anyone, learn from them.

And im just going to throw it out there...Swoop bike racing

Edited April 25, 2012 by FaceShindu

[dazednconfuzed]

Ye dazed, mine is to be a smuggler shipping stuff across the galaxy for profit. I dont see how what i see from within the star wars IP as invalid compared to someone running around with a light saber. Just as others want to be true bounty hunters chasing down other players on the land based game.

 

Mine is to lead a squadron of fighters for the Empire One of the greatest moments in TIE Fighter was the first mission you got to fly a TIE Defender with Vader as your wingman. Sooo much fun, and I love the warning you receive in your briefing...

 

"Lord Vader will accompany you as Delta 6. Might I suggest you refrain from issuing in-flight orders to him, for your own safety."

 

Or something like that

 

How could you forget the Rogue Squadran series? And although unrelated EVE does space combat best, if your going to learn from anyone, learn from them.

And im just going to throw it out there...Swoop bike racing

 

I think the current tunnel system would be brilliant for swoop or pod racing. I mean, you should be limited in your movement to the track anyways, unlike in space where you should be able to turn whichever way you please.

Edited April 25, 2012 by dazednconfuzed

[Dayln]

What we want is easy to explain ( but difficult to implement )

 

We want a star wars feel to space combat

 

We want people manning turrets while someone else is flying the ship in space combat, you know, like star wars

 

We want things that go wrong with the ship, and people fixing the problems using thier skills while the combat is taking place, you know, like star wars

 

We want capitol ships, with guns that can be manned by players

 

We realize we are asking for the moon here, but what the heck

 

Can we have the moon please?

 

 

( wait, that is no moon )

[FaceShindu]

 

"Lord Vader will accompany you as Delta 6. Might I suggest you refrain from issuing in-flight orders to him, for your own safety."

 

Or something like that

 

I think the current tunnel system would be brilliant for swoop or pod racing. I mean, you should be limited in your movement to the track anyways, unlike in space where you should be able to turn whichever way you please.

 

I remeber that quote, pure awesomness. This game has so far to go even if they only listen to a small percentage of our suggestions. I spent many hours on KotOR swooping and almost as much in arcades playing the pod racing game with the simulator controls. I kind of see space exploration on the same scale as flying mounts on "the other game" which totally changed the dynamics of exploration. They could even add planets with no real quest lines purly for exploration/RP/Guildhalls + ships. Could all be done, just takes time and expansions.

[Jestunhi]

How could you forget the Rogue Squadran series? And although unrelated EVE does space combat best, if your going to learn from anyone, learn from them.

And im just going to throw it out there...Swoop bike racing

 

Yeah, I know I said I'd stop posting here, but I'm responding to something more on topic this time, rather than responses which once again seem to imply that I've claimed that no one would be interested in it or that it would be unprofitable.

 

Eve combat (skip to about 2:05 to get to the combat).

 

 

I'd far prefer combat like JTL than eve, and I'd see it as being closer to the combat seen in the movies (and previous games) too.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Jestunhi

[FaceShindu]

Yeah, I know I said I'd stop posting here, but I'm responding to something more on topic this time, rather than responses which once again seem to imply that I've claimed that no one would be interested in it or that it would be unprofitable.

 

Eve combat (skip to about 2:05 to get to the combat).

 

 

I'd far prefer combat like JTL than eve, and I'd see it as being closer to the combat seen in the movies (and previous games) too.

 

Would agree with you. JTL is more fitting for SWtoR, EvE might be slightly too complicated. A simplified version maybe. Player/guild created space stations would be awesome as well, where the guild pays for vendors and security and the money generated goes to the guild minus some galactic tax or something.

[FSA_shadow]

Eh, I kinda like the space combat. I mean sure full 3D would be great but it always felt boring and stale in games like Battlefront 2. I like where the space combat is at now but it NEEDS to be done right. Otherwise it will just be empty and boring.

[Jestunhi]

Would agree with you. JTL is more fitting for SWtoR, EvE might be slightly too complicated. A simplified version maybe. Player/guild created space stations would be awesome as well, where the guild pays for vendors and security and the money generated goes to the guild minus some galactic tax or something.

 

Eve combat isn't complicated, it's "tactical" instead of "action".

 

But it's still as simple as clicking a target, clicking lock-on and pressing as many quickbar keys as you want weapons to attack.

[FaceShindu]

Eve combat isn't complicated, it's "tactical" instead of "action".

 

But it's still as simple as clicking a target, clicking lock-on and pressing as many quickbar keys as you want weapons to attack.

 

There's the whole orbiting system, range on weapons and shield management as well. Which to some extent TIE fighter had too.

On a different note, a larger selection of ships would be good. I like my D-mantis but a few more choices would be nice.

[dazednconfuzed]

Eve combat isn't complicated, it's "tactical" instead of "action".

 

But it's still as simple as clicking a target, clicking lock-on and pressing as many quickbar keys as you want weapons to attack.

 

A 'tactical' space combat would be good for capital ship battles, but I don't think it would suit small scale ship combat, fighters, freighters, and the like.

[FaceShindu]

A 'tactical' space combat would be good for capital ship battles, but I don't think it would suit small scale ship combat, fighters, freighters, and the like.

 

Yea, for capital vs capital it would be great, with players or NPC's manning the guns. Smaller ships should work more like JTL

[Jestunhi]

Yea, for capital vs capital it would be great, with players or NPC's manning the guns. Smaller ships should work more like JTL

 

But manning the guns and then just clicking "lock on" and pressing F1 once?

 

That would be what it is using Eve's combat system.

 

I'd prefer full control. In fact, some of the early Black Prophecy gameplay includes a small ship and using a turret on a bigger ship, check out the video

.

[FaceShindu]

But manning the guns and then just clicking "lock on" and pressing F1 once?

 

That would be what it is using Eve's combat system.

 

I'd prefer full control. In fact, some of the early Black Prophecy gameplay includes a small ship and using a turret on a bigger ship, check out the video

.

 

I think manning the guns should be more like Colicoid War Games. Where it either fires automatically when you have a ship in your sights or click and shoot with diminishing returns for sustained fire.

 

Perhaps they could introduce slightly larger frigates with a few maned turrets to control like Black Prophecy

[dazednconfuzed]

There's the whole orbiting system, range on weapons and shield management as well. Which to some extent TIE fighter had too.

On a different note, a larger selection of ships would be good. I like my D-mantis but a few more choices would be nice.

 

I agree with you about the extra ships, although I have heard reasons relating to story cutscenes as to why they don't want to bring more in.

 

Not too sure about things like weapons ranges, shield rotations, etc. That may be getting a little too advanced for an MMO that combines both ground and space. I wouldn't complain personally, but I imagine some people would.

[dooseyboy]

people talking about the lack of launch stuff need to cut off their subscription and go play guild wars or some ****.

what do they mean by space combat?

the space missions are already in 3D...

are we talking about big multiplayer space combat comparable to stuff like EVE?

that would be pretty damn sweet actually

[Zertheron]

Mine is to lead a squadron of fighters for the Empire One of the greatest moments in TIE Fighter was the first mission you got to fly a TIE Defender with Vader as your wingman. Sooo much fun, and I love the warning you receive in your briefing...

 

"Lord Vader will accompany you as Delta 6. Might I suggest you refrain from issuing in-flight orders to him, for your own safety."

 

Or something like that

But he was a looser most of the time 1% HP

[FaceShindu]

I agree with you about the extra ships, although I have heard reasons relating to story cutscenes as to why they don't want to bring more in.

 

Not too sure about things like weapons ranges, shield rotations, etc. That may be getting a little too advanced for an MMO that combines both ground and space. I wouldn't complain personally, but I imagine some people would.

 

I can see a lot of QQing about the learning curve if things get too complicated. And i can see how extra ships could be a mountain of work. Just let me hijack a some smuggler or jedi's ship, shouldnt be too hard to replace in cut scenes, or at least let me paint my D-Mantis florescent pink and yellow!

[Darkulous]

Having a TIE FiGHTER type of space combat would be awsome. Space Battlegrounds 10 v 10? Players can choose between 3 or 4 different types of fighters.