Psythos Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 They were virtual worlds where I could get lost. I would login and explore, adventure, bump into other players and get into all kinds of stuff. Now in every mmorpg including this one, its all grinding gear for the sake of grinding more gear. it seems like 100% of every moment in these games are spent on grinding gear to grind gear to grind gear. What happened!? What caused the jump from adventuring in a virtual world to epic Barbie on a roller coaster in her mirror? MMO evolution has seemed to be bassackwards. Its like we went from 3d to side scrollers instead of the other way around.... Oh well, here's to grinding gear for the sake of grinding gear and spending every moment in the game doing activities for gear so that you will be eligible for next months gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 WoW happened. Once Blizzard exploded the MMO market every MMO after based their model on what Blizzard had done for World of Warcraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gharlane Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I couldn't agree more the whole genre is moribund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasheria Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Actually MMO grind happen WELL before WoW. UO had it. EQ had it. This game do have places to explore and find new things, but the grind is always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 WoW happened. Once Blizzard exploded the MMO market every MMO after based their model on what Blizzard had done for World of Warcraft. What are you talking about? WoW had an awesome world to explore. It was non-linear for all of vanilla. Yes, it tacked on the gear grind at the end, but it had tons of exploration. SWTOR has no exploration. Zero. It's all linear corridors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThrillInstructor Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This is what happened: There used to be a time when you carried your computer halfway across town to play with other people, because back in those days playing with REAL people was something very special and precious. Nowadays other players are just another feature. Consequently, 'having an adventure' just isn't that important anymore. Designers of computer games simply follow demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Only my first MMO, but found exploration is viable, though somewhat restricted. For instance, I gleefully flew about Alderaan and took in the view as well as I could. But the high concentation of quest spawns in some areas made exploration more dangerous. Same went the same on a few more of the scenic planets. Now I do have 800+ hrs in Skyrim for experience, and found exploration to be similiar; some areas have higher concentrations of foes than others. And while this MMO is more hazoradous, exploartion is still quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeptisPrime Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I am a bit of a MMO veteran now and I am finding this game refreshing. Yes it seems at end game the focus is on operations for gear to do more operations or pvp for more gear to pvp. However, the story lines for each class are so rich and I am really hoping they focus on providing more of that content. If I can actually get groups to do heroics and flashpoints while leveling, it really seems like I am playing through the story with others. In other games, the quests and story seems separate from the gameplay. SWTOR isn't perfect but it is doing a pretty good job. I've gotten more variety out of a couple characters and their companions and ships in SWTOR than after maxing every single class and profession in WoW. I play both games and am a Blizzard fanboy but I am now really rooting for Bioware to focus and succeed on what they are good at: allowing players to make their own story, thus putting the RP in MMORPG. Both of these models are better than the EQ/FFXI model of grinding XP with groups and not giving much story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psythos Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I was starting to think I was the only one who felt this way and that maybe my feelings about what mmorpg's should be like is biased because of the mmo I started with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 WoW happened. Once Blizzard exploded the MMO market every MMO after based their model on what Blizzard had done for World of Warcraft. Yup. Shame really...I wish WoW had been just a little less successful. On the other hand, I am glad there are more folks MMOing to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psythos Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Actually MMO grind happen WELL before WoW. UO had it. EQ had it. This game do have places to explore and find new things, but the grind is always there. Sure, grinding gear is a type of grind but grinding isn't what I was really talking about. I know the older mmorpg's I played had WAY more ''grind''. I just want to get lost in a virtual world be able to free roam. The way it is these days you have to login get started on your dailies be it pvp or pve and thats it, same thing every day. It all revolves around earning gear. It becomes a job and not fun entertainment when you have to do this everyday you play to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tloops Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 WoW is still way more explorable than this game...at least you could climb mountains,swim lakes,and generally get lost in a zone...all this is impossible in TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharleyDanger Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love the gear grind. SWTOR is my first MMO, before it I played console games like CoD, GTA, and God of War. I could never sit and play a console game for more than 3-4 hours at a time, and if I did I felt like a zombie when I was done. With SWTOR, ****, I can bang 8 hours and not notice. Its like a drug, never experienced anything like it. Scary, yet fun lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkip Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I can't remember where it was now, but someone posted in another thread about MMORPG's being either a sandbox or theme park model, and I have to agree with that analogy. Both designs have their pro's and con's and people will be drawn to one or the other depending on what they want to get out of it. I think it's hard to have a place where you can go to the beach with a shovel and build any sort of sandcastle you can imagine and also have it be the middle of Disney Land. I loved the trip from Freeport to Queynos. It was scary, and an adventure that was so full of unknowns. At the same time however, I don't know how you (game designers) can re-capture that. The other thing that comes to mind I was reading is that games used to be made by gamers for gamers with revenue being for making more games. Nowadays games are big money propositions like blockbuster movies. It's all about effort in to profit out ratio. Companies have to think that way or go the way of the do-do... Being that the current style of the genre appeals to the widest range of potential players, it is likely the most viable for RoI for a company. My 5 year old loved playing WoW, and my 9 year old loves playing SWTOR, but not sure how much they would enjoy trying to figure out crushbone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psythos Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love the gear grind. SWTOR is my first MMO, before it I played console games like CoD, GTA, and God of War. I could never sit and play a console game for more than 3-4 hours at a time, and if I did I felt like a zombie when I was done. With SWTOR, ****, I can bang 8 hours and not notice. Its like a drug, never experienced anything like it. Scary, yet fun lol. Yeah the gear grind is like that at first. We used to build our own cities and even bases to fight over with the same vigor. The difference is, grinding gear is something people tend to want to do solo and building cities is something people obviously want to do together. This isn't a post just about building cities in mmorpgs but one of the many things I miss from old mmorpgs. I loved finding new player cities to run around in or start S in and get pvp going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reagan_youth Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I like both types of MMOs. My first was SWG and I really miss just going to a planet and exploring trying to find something cool to see or finding some vanity item to put up in my house. I also like the theme park MMOs, especially this one because I love the class stories. If this game could combine the exploration feel of SWG or other sandboxes and keep the theme park setting of the stories, it would be the absolute perfect MMO in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I've begun to play Lotro a little bit, partly because I'm kind of bored and it's a free full game. I had heard many good things about it, but I always just thought of it as one of those small population mmo's that only appeal to a small audience, like SWG. In short, I was wrong, the game is pretty great and very developed. There seems to be a sense of adventure that I don't find in other games, and it takes me back. Although the raids are a little boring and there aren't many players to make it competitive, it's still great fun. I still play Swtor too, if your looking for a fun exploring game, try it out, like I said, it's free after all. Edited April 23, 2012 by TheLonelyTusken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Having come from SWG to here, it's been a bit of a shock to the system, though not an entirely unexpected one since I was also a WoW player. Going from planers that are entirely open to linear corridors and from free roam space to on-rail shooters has taken some getting used to. In a way, it's made me appreciate SWG all that much more, despite its numerous flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 They were virtual worlds where I could get lost. I would login and explore, adventure, bump into other players and get into all kinds of stuff. Now in every mmorpg including this one, its all grinding gear for the sake of grinding more gear. it seems like 100% of every moment in these games are spent on grinding gear to grind gear to grind gear. What happened!? What caused the jump from adventuring in a virtual world to epic Barbie on a roller coaster in her mirror? MMO evolution has seemed to be bassackwards. Its like we went from 3d to side scrollers instead of the other way around.... Oh well, here's to grinding gear for the sake of grinding gear and spending every moment in the game doing activities for gear so that you will be eligible for next months gear... What in this game is keeping you from exploring, adventuring, meeting other people, getting lost in the game, and getting into all kinds of stuff? Was it the game that changed... or you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiaku Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 The worlds in SWTOR aren't so big that you can just walk and walk and explore, and there really isn't much to find. Everything is associated with some subquest or quest for another class, nowhere is meant to be just for sake of fun and exploration. The worlds should be expanded, doesn't need to fill it with meaningful places, just add huge deserts, jungles and icy wastelands and nice places to climb and hang out. Add secrets, bosses and whatnot to these remote areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thominoh Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Agreed OP.... Computer gaming technology advanced, but the game play itself went backwards.. MMO's today are less social, more predictable, and just boring after a few months once end game is reached... Well.. Unless the player likes the raid hamster wheel grind.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psythos Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Having come from SWG to here, it's been a bit of a shock to the system, though not an entirely unexpected one since I was also a WoW player. Going from planers that are entirely open to linear corridors and from free roam space to on-rail shooters has taken some getting used to. In a way, it's made me appreciate SWG all that much more, despite its numerous flaws. I felt similar to you when I quit swg the day the nge went live and I went to wow. The objects in my bag didnt feel like anything because I couldn't drop them and see them in 3d heh, just one of the small things I remember from then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psythos Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 What in this game is keeping you from exploring, adventuring, meeting other people, getting lost in the game, and getting into all kinds of stuff? Was it the game that changed... or you? What changed is having to spend every minute of available game time on grinding gear to remain competitive in what I like to do. Because of the way the world is setup I don't need to go adventuring or exploring because once you see it that is that. Nothing really brings people together other than the gear grinds for pve or pvp. That sums up why getting lost in the world and getting into all kinds of stuff isn't really available in the way I seek it. Sure, I may be biased in what I'm looking for in a mmorpg because of the mmo's I started with but that is how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkip Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I don't know if it is a generational thing, or just how society is, but in general most people want to be "entertained" I think the theme park model is more for being entertained and if that's where the demographics are concentrated you'd be foolish for concentrating any sort of rescources towards anything but the highest concentation of interest. One thing I think they could do in this game is get rid of the exhastion areas in places like Tatooine and have land to explore. Although again... I guess the resources they would need to commit to that outweigh any sort of RoI they might gain, so I can see why there isn't more of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psythos Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I don't know if it is a generational thing, or just how society is, but in general most people want to be "entertained" I think the theme park model is more for being entertained and if that's where the demographics are concentrated you'd be foolish for concentrating any sort of rescources towards anything but the highest concentation of interest. One thing I think they could do in this game is get rid of the exhastion areas in places like Tatooine and have land to explore. Although again... I guess the resources they would need to commit to that outweigh any sort of RoI they might gain, so I can see why there isn't more of that... To an extent I agree with you but I don't think it would be that difficult to add a ton of basic land/ocean/space for us to actually get lost in. I think they could drop this theme park right down inside a sandbox. The game is young and hopefully we see growth in every direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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