Sith lords of ancient time - were there the most powerfull ?

[Sewerus]

The jedi were taken completely by surprise when Order 66 happened, sure they could sense danger but at that point they couldn't do anything about it.

 

Mundi- Was more likely tired from the fighting already, leading his men and then turning around wondering what was going on. The moment they fired, he did defend himself and actually killed some of the clones but was still killed because of the rate of fire.

 

Aayla- .......Ok I can give you her, just because she sensed something was wrong but took way too long in trying to do something.

 

Plo Koon- He didn't really have time to do much of anything, since his wingmen opened fired and hit his ship dead on.

 

One speederbike master(Can't remember the name)- Thinking "oh ok must have found something.." gets shot unable to do anything.

-------------

 

Temple, now at the temple there were only a handful of masters. Rest of em, were padawans, some knights, and some younglings against a sith lord and an entire legion of clone troopers. Which an entire legion of clones was 10,580 so plus that with a sith lord they didn't really have any chance unless Anakin was killed and they could focus more on the clones rather then another force wielder. The masters didn't last long either against Anakin, the gatemaster was taken by surprise, Shaak Ti ran away, the holocron master was killed, three other masters were killed. The only one who was a threat to Anakin was Cin, but he was cut down so there goes that hope.

 

Anakin was the X factor in the Temple raid, if it had just been the legion itself with Anakin still loyal to the jedi more then likely they would have been able to defeat the legion.

 

For me at least, old republic tales would be the best, original story have some quite good characters too but overall, old republic is better for me and I won't agree that yoda order was the strongest period.

[Sewerus]

He didn't need as much training as the rest of them, he learned faster and much quicker then any other before him. The fact that he got to jedi knight in 4 years flat, is an impressive feat since it usually takes over a decade.

 

even that I do not think he is uber man you are talking about.

[Clonedzero]

She was wrong. Perhaps not about the Revan era, with all the knowledge lost in the past 2 Wars and the near extermination of the jedi order, alot of old knowledge was lost, and knowledge is actually more important then martial strength for a sith and jedi.

 

The Golden Age of the Jedi was the Prequel era, with some of the strongest jedi to ever exist, a 1000 years of peace and prosperity allowed the jedi to perfect their knowledge and understanding of the force making the Jedis stronger then they ever had been before.

 

And seeing as all the sith lords you mentioned bowed down and acknowledged Sidious' power, its fair to say the same can be said for the Sith, in fact, the Banite sith was the strongest Sith order to ever have existed with Sidious being the culmination of a 1000 years of sith teachings and knowledge.

 

With Kreia, you gotta take every words she says with a oceans worth of salt though.

 

if they were so strong and smart how'd they fall for the most obvious evil scheme ever? then allow themselves to all be shot in the back by a bunch of xerox clones. whole lot of "knowledge and power" there huh?

[Sewerus]

Basically this. Its like the boot camp, you don't have to like what you're told, you just have to say "Yes sir" and move on.

 

And If I do not like what he says, I will say more i do not agree 100% what he says. Should I leave star wars behind me ?

 

I was a fan of star wars since I was seven.

[LemmingLeader]

Yodas Order wasnt weaker, it just didnt evolve. The Banite sith evolved, perfected their techniques and put all their efforts into getting all the advantages they could get over the Jedi. And being able to observe their hated enemy with impunity helped immensly in this.

 

Yodas Order was the strongest of the Jedi order up to that point, but the Banite sith was like the Dark Side incarnate. You should reread his revelation in the RotS novel, its states exactly the same, that the Sith evolved, the Jedi didnt. But that doesnt change the fact it was the Golden Age of the jedi.

 

@OP:

Edit: Losing to Windu is not a sign of weakness, Mace is was one of the greatest lightsaber duelist to ever have existed, he posessed the power shatterpoint, and Vaapad which gave him a considerable edge over any sith he fought.

Even then, if Sidious had not relented his lightning to trick Anakin over to the dark side, Mace would have been sliced by his own lightsaber blade, when Mace was hit with Sid's lightning after losing his hand he died before he flew out the window.

 

Sidious is the strongest Sith to have ever existed i recommend you read up on him,

- he could mind wipe billions of ppl in a single go,

- on his private retreat on Byss he mind controlled billions of people and sucked up their energy just to recharge

- He could summon Force Wormholes that could decimate entire star fleets and transport individuals to where ever he wanted to.

- His lightning was the strongest out of all ever shown in the EU, with him being able to reduce Sith Acolytes and Stormtroopers to ash, aswell as controll it so he only killed troopers opposed to him in a huge melee of troopers.

 

Sidious is the greatest Sith lord to have ever existed

 

I remember that part of the ROTS novel. The fight between Sidious and Yoda was epic in that book. Yoda realized that he stood no chance, and in that fight, he suddenly realized that the Sith had changed, had adapted, while the Jedi Order he served for hundreds of years did not.

 

The Jedi Order was stagnant. It had nothing to contend with like the Order did during the Sith Wars. There was nothing to test the Order against as a whole, no powerful opponents that they had to match wits with, match might for might with.

 

But the Sith? They withdrew, bided their time, learned from their lessons, and adapted to defeat the Jedi that they were sworn enemies to.

 

Yoda realized that the Sith used their time well, and there was nothing Yoda could do to defeat Sidious. The book's awesome description of something like Yoda's tiny ray of light against the monstrous, engulfing darkness of Sidious was great. The only thing Yoda could do was learn from what the hell the Sith accomplished, escape, and pass this knowledge on.

 

The Sith did the right thing and learned from whatever a**-beating they suffered from long ago. The Jedi had 2 faults: Resting on their laurels and having no true opposition to test themselves against.

 

The Sith that Sidious was a product of were indeed powerful. They, through Sidious, finally accomplished what the old Sith could not: Overtake the Republic, destroy the Jedi Order. And it was done with the Jedi Order was in 100% state.

 

For Star Wars fans, if you haven't read the novelization of ROTS, you're missing out. It also makes Anakin's downfall far better than what the movie tried to clumsily do.

if they were so strong and smart how'd they fall for the most obvious evil scheme ever? then allow themselves to all be shot in the back by a bunch of xerox clones. whole lot of "knowledge and power" there huh?

Hindsight is 20-20. What Sidious hatched wasn't really quite obvious to the Jedi. Think about it:

 

- Every time the Republic/Jedi went into conflict with the Sith Empire/Sith, it was a standard conflict waged across the galaxy. The Republic/Jedi responded in kind each and every time.

- There hadn't been any detected Sith "in over a thousand years" in TPM's timeframe. I mean, if they haven't seen any sign of their arch enemies for so long, then why bother?

- The Sith had adapted. Stealth, cunning, power, etc. were still theirs like previous Sith. But they learned from their harsh defeats at the hands of the Jedi and Republic. They apparently also learned of being able to mask themselves from even the most senior, and most powerful Jedi Masters. Yoda, Grand Master of the Jedi Order, couldn't even detect Sidious despite talking to his alter ego probably daily.

- In addition to masking themselves from the Jedi, Sidious hatched the Clone Wars for 3 real reasons.

1. To bleed the Jedi in a war.

2. Using the war to further mask the Sith from the Jedi. Yoda said that his vision was clouded due to the war.

3. With the planned crushing of the CIS, all military power was hoarded by the Republic and Supreme Chancellor.

- The actual enemy of the Republic was none other than the Supreme Chancellor himself. Leader of the Republic throughout the dreadful Clone Wars and supporter of the Jedi Order. You had attended daily strategic briefings for him about the war's progress and general state of the Republic. You have helped each other back and forth for the cause of the overall Republic for years. But now someone is telling you HE'S a Sith Lord? Ridiculous!

Edited April 24, 2012 by LemmingLeader

[Zertheron]

And seeing as all the sith lords you mentioned bowed down and acknowledged Sidious' power, its fair to say the same can be said for the Sith, in fact, the Banite sith was the strongest Sith order to ever have existed with Sidious being the culmination of a 1000 years of sith teachings and knowledge.

I don't think so. Sidious was nearly killed twice (by Yoda and Windu, in fact he pissed his pants two times that day). Also, his apprentice was killed by two random Jedi - after decades of hardcore duel training. Thats not "strongest Sith order" at all. He was simply incredible lucky in the end.

 

Edit:

After reading some of the arguments here. Two thing are clear in the movie.

 

1. Windu was superior and would have killed Sidious

2. Sidious tried to run in front of Yoda

 

Lots of stuff releated to the movies are just cash-cow milking with stories on fan-fiction level. In my opinion, there are 4 types of "material" in the SW universe. For my part, I don't take the last one serious.

 

Movies > TV shows > "serious" EU like kotor, Jedi knight etc. > fanboy EU stuff like many comics, some action figures (Cyborg Maul ) and games like force unleashed

Edited April 24, 2012 by Zertheron

[ElrohirEluchil]

if they were so strong and smart how'd they fall for the most obvious evil scheme ever? then allow themselves to all be shot in the back by a bunch of xerox clones. whole lot of "knowledge and power" there huh?

 

Obvious to the viewer perhaps, but not to the Jedi themselves, Sidious was effectivly Force blinding the entire Jedi order, only allowing them a few glimpses now and then into the future.

 

The Grand plan was a brilliant stroke of genius, but it did rely on Sidious' ability to manipulate the Jedi.

 

And none of the Masters where shot by clones if Anakin wasnt assisting those clones they would have been fodder against the combat ready masters. The knights and padawans were overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

[ElrohirEluchil]

I don't think so. Sidious was nearly killed twice (by Yoda and Windu, in fact he pissed his pants two times that day). Also, his apprentice was killed by two random Jedi - after decades of hardcore duel training. Thats not "strongest Sith order" at all. He was simply incredible lucky in the end.

 

Edit:

After reading some of the arguments here. Two thing are clear in the movie.

 

1. Windu was superior and would have killed Sidious

2. Sidious tried to run in front of Yoda

 

Lots of stuff releated to the movies are just cash-cow milking with stories on fan-fiction level. In my opinion, there are 4 types of "material" in the SW universe. For my part, I don't take the last one serious.

 

Movies > TV shows > "serious" EU like kotor, Jedi knight etc. > fanboy EU stuff like many comics, some action figures (Cyborg Maul ) and games like force unleashed

 

Unfortunatly, if we're arguring factual canon, your opinion have no say in the matter, everything about Sidious being the strongest is G-Canon (movies, tv-shows, novelization of the movies).

 

1) Mace Windu was a superior duelist compared to Sidious, this is true and canon, but Sidious would have blasted Windus lightsaber through windu if he had kept up the barrage of lightning.

2) Yoda was the strongest Jedi of the prequel Jedi Order, the strongest order in recorded history. The fact that Sidous having a hard time with him somehow lessens his power is ludicrous. Sidious was laughing for most of the fight aswell, how is that "wetting your pants"?

 

That is G-canon, for all those who say the novel of RotS isnt G-Canon, George Lucas himself sent the author a revised script after the author had sent it in, were he had marked things he wanted changed and into what. That and the whole book was based on the script to the movie itself

 

And about those action figures

Cyborg Maul appears in the TV show

 

 

Please do read up on canon before you stat your opinion as fact...

 

Edit: Sorry about the double post >.<

Edited April 24, 2012 by ElrohirEluchil

[Zertheron]

1) Mace Windu was a superior duelist compared to Sidious, this is true and canon, but Sidious would have blasted Windus lightsaber into himself if he had kept up the barrage of lightning.

I don't know what some other authors wrote, but in this scene he is clearly afraid and nearly killed himself by over-using the dark side (scars in his face). That wasn't planned for sure.

 

And Lucas probably don't care as long as its generating $$$. I don't think he read most of the stuff.

 

2) Yoda was the strongest Jedi of the prequel Jedi Order, the strongest order in recorded history. The fact that Sidous having a hard time with him somehow lessens his power is ludicrous. Sidious was laughing for most of the fight aswell, how is that "wetting your pants"?

Because he is crazy As I said: he tried to run like a child, thats fact.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Zertheron

[ElrohirEluchil]

I don't know what some other authors wrote, but in this scene he is clearly afraid and nearly killed himself by over-using the dark side (scars in his face). That wasn't planned for sure.

 

And Lucas probably don't care as long as its generating $$$. I don't think he read most of the stuff.

 

 

Because he is crazy As I said: he tried to run like a child, thats fact.

 

I guess you skipped the part were i said Lucas had a personal hand in the development of the novel

 

Riiight... so, if he nearly killed himself how did he so easily blast Windu when he lost his hand? Or how about the easy with which he got up and talked like nothing was wrong? Face it, he realised he could use that fight as the deciding moment to turn Anakin to the dark side, and that was what he did by playing weak.

 

Sidious did try to run from Yoda, but when it came down to an actual fight, Sidious held the advantage. Fighting Yoda was a risk, one he probably didnt want to take, so that makes him a child running scared?

[_Zorth_]

I don't know what some other authors wrote, but in this scene he is clearly afraid and nearly killed himself by over-using the dark side (scars in his face). That wasn't planned for sure.

 

You missed the entire point of that scene, He went from weak and scared to unlimited power in a matter of seconds. Yes, Mace won the duel but he would've gotten killed with or without Anakin. Sidious was only showing fear to lure Anakin taht the jedi are evil that way he'd be beyond the point of no return.

 

And Lucas probably don't care as long as its generating $$$. I don't think he read most of the stuff.

 

 

Because he is crazy As I said: he tried to run like a child, thats fact.

 

And no, yoda was the one that ran from Sidious. Sidious was in control of the duel at all times and even laughed while doing so, Yoda got thrown away and had to run away from Sidious.

[Sewerus]

So I am wondering if I am accepting that clone wars jedi order was the strongest due to maybe my personal opinion, maybe I hoped since when I played kotor and involve myself with old republic story, I really feel the magic of it.

 

Compared to that movies are so lame and character too but that is my preference.

 

Lucas can say whatever he want about it, I do not belive him, I care not if that is so called "Cannon" or not.

 

Truly you cannot say if ancient sith were stronger then movies ones due to a fact that there is a great time difference between them. So even lucas don't know that since they haven't been any old sith returning.

 

Plus if I remember correctly luke had a lot of trouble when spirit of exar kun awoke in yavin 4.

 

So he couldn't be that powerfull.

 

And pls discuss the topic, this is not thread about discussing how powerful mace windu, yoda and palpatine was etc. It is about comparing the strength of ancient sith to the new ones. And old order to the new order.

[Rhyltran]

So I am wondering if I am accepting that clone wars jedi order was the strongest due to maybe my personal opinion, maybe I hoped since when I played kotor and involve myself with old republic story, I really feel the magic of it.

 

Compared to that movies are so lame and character too but that is my preference.

 

Lucas can say whatever he want about it, I do not belive him, I care not if that is so called "Cannon" or not.

 

Truly you cannot say if ancient sith were stronger then movies ones due to a fact that there is a great time difference between them. So even lucas don't know that since they haven't been any old sith returning.

 

Plus if I remember correctly luke had a lot of trouble when spirit of exar kun awoke in yavin 4.

 

So he couldn't be that powerfull.

 

And pls discuss the topic, this is not thread about discussing how powerful mace windu, yoda and palpatine was etc. It is about comparing the strength of ancient sith to the new ones. And old order to the new order.

 

Exar Kun had grown more powerful than when he was alive. Not to mention Exar Kun had caught Luke off guard by possessing his star pupil at the time. It was the combined power of both that took Luke down and it happened by catching him off guard. Note that Exar Kun was easily stopped when Luke's students banded together to put an end to him.

 

Exar Kun, the entire time he was waiting, was biding his time and growing in power. For several thousand years he was doing this. The ancient Sith spirits acknowledged Sidious and Kevin J Anderson, the writer of the series in question, was asked what Exar Kun's power relation was to Sidious and he stated not even close. There's multiple quotes calling Sidious the most powerful Sith and Yoda the most powerful Jedi (Pre-luke). I love the old republic series more but why, to love it more, do the Jedi/Sith have to have more power than the ones from the movie era? I never understood this train of thought.

 

The problem is you don't want to compare the ancient Sith to Yoda and Sidious. Why? To prove if the ancient Sith are stronger than the new ones you have to pit the strongest Sith against the strongest Jedi/Sith in the republic era.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Rhyltran

[Sewerus]

The problem is you don't want to compare the ancient Sith to Yoda and Sidious. Why? To prove if the ancient Sith are stronger than the new ones you have to pit the strongest Sith against the strongest Jedi/Sith in the republic era.

 

If we say that everything about luke,palpatine,yoda etc is true that all the sith/jedi are just children playing with toys.

 

Even the ancient sith are children compared to luke so no offence but that is not my kind of star wars.

 

I can accept that look was talented sure, but there is different between talent and how good you are.

 

Talent is like 10% of sucess rest is hard work, so compared to that luke, mara we nothing since they didn't have any proper teaching. That was a civilisation of force users, they knew how to each, how to train properly and luke didn't so on that bases.

 

In atack of the clones it was stated that there wasn't full scale war since the formation of the republic, and later it was given a number of 1000, so and we all know this was arond 20 000.

 

Futhermore we really do not know if the jedi of prequel era were the strongest, you could say they were the wiset due to a fact that there wasn't any war in around 1000 years. But kreia san't can conflict strengthten us.

 

So if there wasn't anyone who face the jedi, they wouldn't become any stronger, I think quite the opposite.

 

Even a sith lord cannot stand against whole academy, it is a suprise he fall. If he had his own body I think the battle would turn out different.

 

But in the truth I do not like the idea then suddenly the new jedi so uber compared the old ones it really breakes the feeling of star wars at least for me. When I learned about those giant wormholes created by palpatine, I decided that lucas have gone too far with this.

 

Sith always says that they was stronger then they predecessor since they love to boast how strong they are.

[Wolfninjajedi]

If we say that everything about luke,palpatine,yoda etc is true that all the sith/jedi are just children playing with toys.

 

Even the ancient sith are children compared to luke so no offence but that is not my kind of star wars.

 

I can accept that look was talented sure, but there is different between talent and how good you are.

 

Talent is like 10% of sucess rest is hard work, so compared to that luke, mara we nothing since they didn't have any proper teaching. That was a civilisation of force users, they knew how to each, how to train properly and luke didn't so on that bases.

 

In atack of the clones it was stated that there wasn't full scale war since the formation of the republic, and later it was given a number of 1000, so and we all know this was arond 20 000.

 

Futhermore we really do not know if the jedi of prequel era were the strongest, you could say they were the wiset due to a fact that there wasn't any war in around 1000 years. But kreia san't can conflict strengthten us.

 

So if there wasn't anyone who face the jedi, they wouldn't become any stronger, I think quite the opposite.

 

Even a sith lord cannot stand against whole academy, it is a suprise he fall. If he had his own body I think the battle would turn out different.

 

But in the truth I do not like the idea then suddenly the new jedi so uber compared the old ones it really breakes the feeling of star wars at least for me. When I learned about those giant wormholes created by palpatine, I decided that lucas have gone too far with this.

 

Sith always says that they was stronger then they predecessor since they love to boast how strong they are.

 

Why/how does it break the feeling of star wars to you? I mean even in our time, we went from bows and arrows to high powered assault rifles. Bare knuckle fist fighting, to boxing, etc etc. It makes sense, that the jedi/sith get stronger as time goes on not weaker.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rhyltran]

If we say that everything about luke,palpatine,yoda etc is true that all the sith/jedi are just children playing with toys.

 

Even the ancient sith are children compared to luke so no offence but that is not my kind of star wars.

 

I can accept that look was talented sure, but there is different between talent and how good you are.

 

Talent is like 10% of sucess rest is hard work, so compared to that luke, mara we nothing since they didn't have any proper teaching. That was a civilisation of force users, they knew how to each, how to train properly and luke didn't so on that bases.

 

In atack of the clones it was stated that there wasn't full scale war since the formation of the republic, and later it was given a number of 1000, so and we all know this was arond 20 000.

 

Futhermore we really do not know if the jedi of prequel era were the strongest, you could say they were the wiset due to a fact that there wasn't any war in around 1000 years. But kreia san't can conflict strengthten us.

 

So if there wasn't anyone who face the jedi, they wouldn't become any stronger, I think quite the opposite.

 

Even a sith lord cannot stand against whole academy, it is a suprise he fall. If he had his own body I think the battle would turn out different.

 

But in the truth I do not like the idea then suddenly the new jedi so uber compared the old ones it really breakes the feeling of star wars at least for me. When I learned about those giant wormholes created by palpatine, I decided that lucas have gone too far with this.

 

Sith always says that they was stronger then they predecessor since they love to boast how strong they are.

 

It wasn't just Yoda and Sidious words..

 

Sorry to break it to you but this is how star wars is. It goes beyond simply talent. There are beings in the Star Wars Universe that no one can tangle with unless they have the same level of power. If you pit most Jedi, even extremely good ones, against Nihilus they would simply be drained. They'd die in seconds. No fight would even happen. These are facts you must accept in the star wars universe. You're essentially saying "I don't want to believe it so it's not true." That's fine.

 

If you wish to ignore the facts be my guest but please stop posting on the lore section if that is the case. If you want to discuss the facts it's a different matter entirely.

 

“Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.”(The New Essential Chronology, page 84 )

 

The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course [that the Rebel Alliance would be troublesome]; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed.” (Death Star, page 76)

 

“Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)

 

"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure"-- The Dark Empire Sourcebook.

 

“[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.”-- The Dark Side Sourcebook.

 

”Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time.”-- The Complete Visual Dictionary.

 

"The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force." -- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia.

 

"Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over an entire galaxy. What has proven to be the lasting genius of Palpatine as Emperor is his devotion to collecting all the knowledge of the Dark Side that he can, as well as what Light Side information he can corrupt and preserve. He is no more altruistic than any other, but his newfound immortality has given him the patience that all before him have lacked."

 

There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.

 

It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.

 

It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a laserpoint of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor.

 

It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.

 

It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.

 

In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.

 

Finally, he saw the truth.

 

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

 

just--

 

didn't--

 

have it.

 

He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.

 

He had lost before he was born.

 

The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.

 

They had become new.

 

While the Jedi--

 

The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.

 

The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter the light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when the war itself had become the dark's own weapon?

 

He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him.

 

 

These sources are word of God quotes stating that Sidious is the most powerful Sith. Not just in character claims. When Sidious returned he mind wiped an entire planet. He was able to drain the lives of billions of people at once. Destroy entire planet's surfaces with sith lightning. Create wormholes that can destroy entire fleets and according to Luke even planets. He was able to switch out of his body and into another at will. The ancient Sith spirits acknowledged him. He had mastered every single dark side power. He had studied all the jedi's techniques as well and found ways to incorporate their techniques/teachings into his own repertoire by corrupting them.

 

He managed to block out the entire order's ability to sense him in the force even standing right in front of them. He could move quicker than the eye can see. He had mastered every single Lightsaber form except one. He could annihilate groups of Jedi/Sith Acolytes with his lightning alone even on his death bed and Luke.. Luke defeated him in combat and has grown more powerful since then. Sorry, it's canon. Like it or not.

[Rayla_Felana]

It wasn't just Yoda and Sidious words..

 

Sorry to break it to you but this is how star wars is. It goes beyond simply talent. There are beings in the Star Wars Universe that no one can tangle with unless they have the same level of power. If you pit most Jedi, even extremely good ones, against Nihilus they would simply be drained. They'd die in seconds. No fight would even happen. These are facts you must accept in the star wars universe. You're essentially saying "I don't want to believe it so it's not true." That's fine.

 

If you wish to ignore the facts be my guest but please stop posting on the lore section if that is the case. If you want to discuss the facts it's a different matter entirely.

 

“Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.”(The New Essential Chronology, page 84 )

 

The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course [that the Rebel Alliance would be troublesome]; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed.” (Death Star, page 76)

 

“Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)

 

"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure"-- The Dark Empire Sourcebook.

 

“[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.”-- The Dark Side Sourcebook.

 

”Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time.”-- The Complete Visual Dictionary.

 

"The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force." -- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia.

 

"Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over an entire galaxy. What has proven to be the lasting genius of Palpatine as Emperor is his devotion to collecting all the knowledge of the Dark Side that he can, as well as what Light Side information he can corrupt and preserve. He is no more altruistic than any other, but his newfound immortality has given him the patience that all before him have lacked."

 

There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.

 

It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.

 

It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a laserpoint of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor.

 

It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.

 

It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.

 

In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.

 

Finally, he saw the truth.

 

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

 

just--

 

didn't--

 

have it.

 

He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.

 

He had lost before he was born.

 

The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.

 

They had become new.

 

While the Jedi--

 

The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.

 

The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter the light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when the war itself had become the dark's own weapon?

 

He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him.

 

 

These sources are word of God quotes stating that Sidious is the most powerful Sith. Not just in character claims. When Sidious returned he mind wiped an entire planet. He was able to drain the lives of billions of people at once. Destroy entire planet's surfaces with sith lightning. Create wormholes that can destroy entire fleets and according to Luke even planets. He was able to switch out of his body and into another at will. The ancient Sith spirits acknowledged him. He had mastered every single dark side power. He had studied all the jedi's techniques as well and found ways to incorporate their techniques/teachings into his own repertoire by corrupting them.

 

He managed to block out the entire order's ability to sense him in the force even standing right in front of them. He could move quicker than the eye can see. He had mastered every single Lightsaber form except one. He could annihilate groups of Jedi/Sith Acolytes with his lightning alone even on his death bed and Luke.. Luke defeated him in combat and has grown more powerful since then. Sorry, it's canon. Like it or not.

 

This.

 

Oh dear god am I pleased to see you back Rhyltran.

[Zag_Stratos]

I think it has to do with when these stories were created.

 

From what I've learned by fans here, Luke is the most powerful of all... yet, when you see Garen Malek in action, bringing down a star destroyer from the sky, fighting with two lightsabers that simply flies around him... you wonder.

 

Palpatine appears to be the strongest of all if you look at his description on wookie.

[Rhyltran]

I think it has to do with when these stories were created.

 

From what I've learned by fans here, Luke is the most powerful of all... yet, when you see Garen Malek in action, bringing down a star destroyer from the sky, fighting with two lightsabers that simply flies around him... you wonder.

 

Palpatine appears to be the strongest of all if you look at his description on wookie.

 

Galen brought down a damaged Star Destroyer that was already going to fall out of the sky. In the novel he isn't as over the top but even going by the game.. Luke has done more impressive things. Tear down an entire citadel and put it back together with his mind. Move faster than the eye can see. Manipulate a black hole. Create an illusion of a Star Fleet and then exclaim that it was much more difficult than moving a star destroyer. Teleport objects. Etc etc etc.

 

*Edit*

 

Again thank you Rayla.

 

P.S. Before the inevitable argument that Luke didn't have the lightsaber skill of the old order. This isn't true. Sidious had mastered all lightsaber forms save one. He also went toe to toe with Mace Windu who is arguably the best Lightsaber duelist in the history of Star Wars. Sidious did this in his older body. When he switched to a new one he was much quicker, much faster, and had much better reflexes. In this form, Luke cut off Sidious' hand. This speaks volumes about Luke's skill with a Lightsaber.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Rhyltran

[LeeC]

TL:DR but has anyone even mentioned in the prequels that both yoda and mace admitted that their use of the force has diminished? I think thats a clear sign that at the time of the prequels the jedi order had diminished. anytime before them in the republic (both after and before the ruusan reformation,sp?) the jedi could have been more powerful that the prequels. As for the sith palpatine is the most powerful sith because he did what no other sith has accomplished, the utter destruction of the republic. No other sith before has accomplish this.

 

I was a bit disappointed that the jedis in the prequels were all lightsaber happy and didnt see any new applications or uses of the force. I would have liked to see how these space wizards operate with their powers to fight opponents and wars before taking out the lightsaber.

[Rayla_Felana]

TL:DR but has anyone even mentioned in the prequels that both yoda and mace admitted that their use of the force has diminished? I think thats a clear sign that at the time of the prequels the jedi order had diminished. anytime before them in the republic (both after and before the ruusan reformation,sp?) the jedi could have been more powerful that the prequels. As for the sith palpatine is the most powerful sith because he did what no other sith has accomplished, the utter destruction of the republic. No other sith before has accomplish this.

 

I was a bit disappointed that the jedis in the prequels were all lightsaber happy and didnt see any new applications or uses of the force. I would have liked to see how these space wizards operate with their powers to fight opponents and wars before taking out the lightsaber.

 

Their powers were diminished because Sidious clouded their minds.

[LeeC]

Their powers were diminished because Sidious clouded their minds.

 

so apparently they were not powerful enough to resist it.

 

which goes to prove sidious's power. Being handicapped =more powerful than the previous generation?

[Wolfninjajedi]

so apparently they were not powerful enough to resist it.

 

which goes to prove sidious's power. Being handicapped =more powerful than the previous generation?

 

They weren't, but that doesn't mean they are weaker then the previous jedi/sith. They were being clouded, by the most powerful sith lord in history.

[Spartanik]

Why/how does it break the feeling of star wars to you? I mean even in our time, we went from bows and arrows to high powered assault rifles. Bare knuckle fist fighting, to boxing, etc etc. It makes sense, that the jedi/sith get stronger as time goes on not weaker.

Exactly our world. Not star wars world.

For me excuse me but it is much more magical discovering the ancient secrets and civilizations of the past, then otherwise.

Its much more magical discovering The ruins of a sith empire in korriban, and learning its ancient secrets and become more powerfull by that, then otherwise. That is Mytology, that is star wars, since is fantasy fiction and not science fiction. If i wanted Science fiction, i would have a go for somethinhg else completely diferent.

[LeeC]

They weren't, but that doesn't mean they are weaker then the previous jedi/sith. They were being clouded, by the most powerful sith lord in history.

so...to quote Luke: "Is the dark side stronger?"