L-RANDLE Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) It doesn't. Not even close. It wasnt better than champ pre 1.2 and it sure as hell isn't after. No contest. LOL....you must not have read my post. Once again read post #67 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=423665&page=7 Here it is again for you.. TL;DR Pre-1.2: Tier to Tier PvPMods/Enh=PvE mods/Enh PvP Armor≠PvE armor.. Why do you think they buffed expertise? Edited April 23, 2012 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Taunt, Guard, CC, Kiting. These are the skills that good teams use to protect their healer. If you aren't doing these things, then your team is not supporting a pure HPS built healer and your healer should not be wearing PvE gear. If you have 0 expertise the tank guarding you will take a lot more damage than if you had some survivability, think about that before you go wearing your special "healing gear". As a tank I will not guard anyone with stupidly low Expertise because it's just incredibly inefficient to do so. Edited April 23, 2012 by Manigma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDuke Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'm the sort of guy that takes my gear off just to bring out the rage in the premades, you know, because it's hilarious You are my HERO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 And since Recruit changes that 2 seconds into 2.1 seconds, the increased healing from PvE gear is statistically superior to survivability. Battlemaster is close to a wash. It is only once you reach War Hero tier is the Expertise boost enough to actually force you to wear any PvP gear at all. Correct, if your are choosing between same tier gear levels, but the to min/max you still need the armor slot piece from PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcolitoz Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Lol. PVE-guys just love their purple gear and big numbers. Expertise is the way to go in Pvp, pve gear just reduces the ttk which is already short in 1.2. "If i dont get hit" lol, lol, lol. "If my team protects me" lol, lol, lol. I just love to Rocket-punch those pve guys, 4-5k per hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansully Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Wait im not wasting 300k on that gear when I can get bm pretty easy. Just be patient with us noobs. Its not a waste, its a matter of respect. Some of us worked our butts off to get to Battlemaster so we could have decent gear for pvp. Are you in college, have a career, play sports? You need to be prepared for whatever your endeavors, being prepared for PVP means purchasing gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Lol. PVE-guys just love their purple gear and big numbers. Expertise is the way to go in Pvp, pve gear just reduces the ttk which is already short in 1.2. "If i dont get hit" lol, lol, lol. "If my team protects me" lol, lol, lol. I just love to Rocket-punch those pve guys, 4-5k per hit. And LOL at the PvP people that I like to rocket punch with my math skills... Im in Rakata, you in BM, we have the same mods/enha, who has the edge? If you say you do, them LOL... Edited April 23, 2012 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsunJay Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I think it is funny that PvEs do not like to hear pvpers tell them to get some pvp gear. Weird how if the tables were turned and someone going into a ops wearing nothing but pvp gear they could get laughed at and booted out of the group because they need better gear to run the ops. The difference is that at the endgame level of pve you can control who you roll with while in pvp (as of right now) you can't roll with 8 so you are stuck with people that don't want to get the starter gear and think they are better than it. Fresh 50s should be rolling with the cap of 2k WZ Coms and 3.5k WH comms so they can at least set themselves up with some BM gear and have some WH comms waiting for them. Buy the recruit gear to fill the gaps seriously money in this game is a joke. Srsly if you want to pvp at endgame prepare yourself ahead of time. PVP gear is PVP gear for a reason just like PVE gear is PVE gear for a reason. Expertise is a MUST right now in PVP anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't pvp'd since 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwyniveth Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love this thread ! All of you screaming for those of us in full champ gear to buy the recruit gear are the same people that belittled all of us in champ gear when we were raging that our champ gear would be worthless when 1.2 hit. Champ gear was better you said, even BW said it initially but have now back peddled on that. So, all the work for full champ gear( I PvP casually but still worked at getting full champ) now want us to just trash all that work and buy the recruit stuff. I did it, but it makes me beyond angry that I had to ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazzen Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 /signed I hate seeing n00bs with 12k HP in my war zone. It's bad enough I'm forced to queue up with 4 completely random people, even worse when they are horrible. There is no excuse for not having full PVP gear before you queue for level 50 bracket PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSafana Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This thread wouldn't exist if BW was able to implement ranked Warzones in 1.2. Pre-mades wouldn't have to group with PUG's in low gear, they's be facerolling them along with the ones in recruit gear. Then the QQ' thread about gear discrepencies would replace this one--- wait. that thread already exists, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcolitoz Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi, your math works fine in a perfect hypothetical scenario not in a real wz. Pve gear means reduce survivability in pvp. You cant drop big heals when you die in the 4 sec of a stun, you will kill your fellow guard-tanks because the increased dmg you (the selfish pve geared guy) take. The devs did the real math and they said "Use pvp-gear in pvp". Btw, RK and BH mods arent the same since 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_anto Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 How about they enable friendly fire? Then we could tell someone "I strongly recommend you go buy your recruit set or your not gonna have much fun in the next warzones :)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 20% more healing simply does not help when you are getting 0 casts off because a marauder is in your face. The extra expertise will help a lot more in extending your hp and 20% on your instacast heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymantium Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love this thread ! All of you screaming for those of us in full champ gear to buy the recruit gear are the same people that belittled all of us in champ gear when we were raging that our champ gear would be worthless when 1.2 hit. Champ gear was better you said, even BW said it initially but have now back peddled on that. So, all the work for full champ gear( I PvP casually but still worked at getting full champ) now want us to just trash all that work and buy the recruit stuff. I did it, but it makes me beyond angry that I had to ! You may be misunderstanding. The "screaming" is being directed towards the fresh 50's still sporting their level 40-ish greens who queue up for WZ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi, your math works fine in a perfect hypothetical scenario not in a real wz. Pve gear means reduce survivability in pvp. You cant drop big heals when you die in the 4 sec of a stun, you will kill your fellow guard-tanks because the increased dmg you (the selfish pve geared guy) take. The devs did the real math and they said "Use pvp-gear in pvp". Btw, RK and BH mods arent the same since 1.2. Yes they are not the same , but......They can be...... so yes vanilla BM is better that Vanilla Rakata, but once you "even out" the mods/enh by using BM mods/enh in your Rakata, you just trumped Vanilla BM....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Yes they are not the same , but......They can be...... so yes vanilla BM is better that Vanilla Rakata, but once you "even out" the mods/enh by using BM mods/enh in your Rakata, you just trumped Vanilla BM....... You can't refer to that as Rakata anymore, though. So if that's what you mean all this time you've been implying that PVE > PVP gear in PVP...well you need to work on your communiciation skills a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrgil Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You don't necessarily HAVE to buy recruit gear before entering warzones. At least, not when you're wearing pre-1.2 centurion gear. Recruit gear is only expertise-heavy, it's stats aren't very good alone. I went into a warzone with my 50 Sorcerer with 2 pieces of Centurion and 1 piece of Champion gear on (230 Expertise total) and played through 5 straight wins with me usually in 3-5th place with 3 deaths at most. It's fine if you're wearing SOME expertise gear (100+ is ok) but below that then yeah, grab some recruit gear. Now my 50 Sorcerer basically full BM with 800 Expertise and I do way better than most of my team when it comes to damage sometimes. It makes a difference of course, but buying recruit gear is not necessary under certain conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi, your math works fine in a perfect hypothetical scenario not in a real wz. Pve gear means reduce survivability in pvp. You cant drop big heals when you die in the 4 sec of a stun, you will kill your fellow guard-tanks because the increased dmg you (the selfish pve geared guy) take. The devs did the real math and they said "Use pvp-gear in pvp". Btw, RK and BH mods arent the same since 1.2. You want more evidence Recuit gear is only a "mild" upgrade over lvl 50/51 epics? It was shown on multiple occasions that cent EXTREMLY close orange with lvl51 epics. Here is dulfy comparing recuit and cent gear head to head. Please notice the -126END, -8WP, and -74(!)POW.. all of this for an 8% OVERALL increase in expertise. http://dulfy.net/2012/03/22/pvp-gearing-in-1-2/ Also notice the Force Mystic V Champ.... It's even more ridiculous. The armor slot always has been and still is the problem with PvP gear as a whole. Until they fix that, when talking about moddable gear, PVP will ALWAYS be second fiddle because you can remove whatever you want and the armor slot on PvE gear is needed to min/max... Here is more: Tell everyone which piece is which... I'll even give you a hint... Its light armor head gear Piece 1: +94END +99WP +74POW +51ALA +50EXP Piece 2: +92END +94WP +48POW +51ALA +100EXP Not even a 1.5% difference in expertise, which means ABSOULUTLY NOTHING when talking about healing in 1.2, but the WP and POW(WAY BETTER SCALING!!!) heal SIGNIFICANTLY better and your HP is higher (which also impact the PvP medpack output). These are not theories champ. The numbers are real. So getting back to the thread, just dont go into WZ with greens, or non-recuit blues...Everything else is fine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Had a couple of the oddest matches this morning, mostly with the same people each time in voidstar and huttball- over half my team had less than 14K health, and in those matches we didn't even get a win because the other team's dps was overwhelming for most of my teammates with <14K health. Recruit is bad regardless of it having decent expertise, all I say is that recruit gear should have ~15K health to begin with. IIRC full recruit has ~900 expertise, full champ has ~650 expertise but champ has much better stats. My marauder still has mostly champ and 17K health and was able to keep up with the 1200+ expertise BM geared players, I tested out full recruit and it was just... disgusting, I couldn't scratch anyone enough. As I said before, it's best to get the cheapest BM pieces right as you ding 50 with your 2000 comms and buy the recruit relics and maybe a piece or two, as others said- it's a waste blowing 300K on a suit you're going to toss away in a few days anyways. Edited April 23, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro- Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This goes out to all the PVE players here, Just as you require players to have effective stats for raiding and doing end game content, you should respect that unless your wearing expertise gear and if your expertise isn't atleast over 800, your a useless member of your pvp team and should not be suprised if they act negatively towards you in pvp. No different than any pve player would act towards a poorly geared pve geared player. If you think pvp players should just piss off, then don't que for warzones and go play your pve content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You can't refer to that as Rakata anymore, though. So if that's what you mean all this time you've been implying that PVE > PVP gear in PVP...well you need to work on your communiciation skills a lot. Ok, Hybrid Rakata? In fact, I just trumped Rakata too since I am getting 50EXP for nothing. I have not been implying anything.... It is fact that the armor slot on PvE gear outpace the "gains" from expertise on PvP armor slot. Until they change that, at the core, PvE will trump PvP because you can never max with PvP gear alone. Same thing for Columi v Champ Cent v Tion v Orange/lvl 51 epics v Recuit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcolitoz Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi. If you r modding your pve with pvp then its not pve gear anymore. Pvp armor mods have expertise too, so the expertise difference has to be multiplied by 5 (pieces with armor mods). The real question is: Which is better expertise in armor mods (x5) or Primary stat difference in armor mods (x5)? The real math should include Low-mid expertise vs High expertise dmg and mitigation per GCD. Unless you reach the expertise soft cap (anyone know that value????) Expertise beats primary stats all day long. As a PT i prefer to guard a high expertise guy than a full rakata one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPunitor Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 325k is nothing to sneeze at when youre a new 50, especially given all the other costs of being a new 50. right now i have my comms maxed at level 48, and when i reach 50 i will be getting two bm pieces and the recruit chest, helmet, and legs. The rest i will get through warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybird Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 that recruit gear is not very good it lacks endurance. i just went through a spell with the gear and would get smoked in it cause of the lack of endurance. getting killed in a matter of seconds is not worth the 300k cause you can do that in regular gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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