Please buy the Reqruit PvP set before you join warzones.

[mystbladex]

Gear does mean very little, sure it might get you a "EDGE" but that is pretty much it its just that and it is razor thin. PvP players with the good gear got the gear by playing a lot. A time sink so they are going to know a thing or two about PvP and their class.

 

side story but kinda funny there is a marauder on my server, love her to death, she put all the mods in a skimpy. princess lea type outfit and people target her for "an easy kill" OPPS lol

[Darth_Sookie]

I'm the sort of guy that takes my gear off just to bring out the rage in the premades, you know, because it's hilarious

 

You're a burden to the team either way. Ever wonder why when you are "guarding" a node or door in a warzone there is always a premade player there? It's because as far as we are concerend you might as well not even be there.

[hadoken]

Sorry, but it is true. Healing does get a boost from expertise, but it is nowhere near as much as you lose by trading away a secondary for expertise. The increased survivability for yourself means decreased survivability for your whole team as a result of lower HPS.

 

If you have a team that can support a healer, the healer should be in PvE gear for higher HPS output. If you are pugging, you should absolutely be in PvP gear and let those DPSers fend for themselves.

 

You clearly don't understand how expertise works. It is as effective for healing as it is for damage (which is to say VERY) and it double dips if you heal yourself (which as a healer you tend to do a lot).

[Darth_Philar]

You clearly don't understand how expertise works. It is as effective for healing as it is for damage (which is to say VERY) and it double dips if you heal yourself (which as a healer you tend to do a lot).

 

I'm afraid you are mistaken.

 

Expertise does about half as much for healing as it does for damage, however on equally geared players the damage will be mitigated by the DR while the healing is not. Essentially, in WH gear you can get about 12% healing boost from Expertise along with DR mitigation of Expertise-boosted damage.

 

This 12% healing boost + DR comes at the cost of about 20-30% healing boost from the surrendered secondary stats from PvE gear leaving you doing 8-18% less healing to your team. If you personally need the survivability because your team is not doing their job then you should stack expertise. If you do not need the added survivability because your team is doing their job then you should not stack expertise. You can either give yourself 24% more survivability or your team 8-18% more survivability. You need to choose which option to take based on who is in your team.

 

EDIT: I should point out that these two examples are the outliers. There is a whole range of balances available by mixing PvE and PvP gear.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[Celebrus]

Sorry, but it is true. Healing does get a boost from expertise, but it is nowhere near as much as you lose by trading away a secondary for expertise. The increased survivability for yourself means decreased survivability for your whole team as a result of lower HPS.

 

If you have a team that can support a healer, the healer should be in PvE gear for higher HPS output. If you are pugging, you should absolutely be in PvP gear and let those DPSers fend for themselves.

 

As a healer, you should be doing EVERYTHING you can to increase your survivability.

 

Pure HPS is not relevant to PvP situations, as a carebear, I'm sure you wouldn't know this though.

 

That being said, survivability > HPS for a healer, because a dead healer has 0 HPS. It doesn't matter if your team can "support" a healer or not, a healer with 0 expertise is easy pickings for even a single half-geared DPS, your HPS really doesn't matter.

[hadoken]

As a healer, you should be doing EVERYTHING you can to increase your survivability.

 

Pure HPS is not relevant to PvP situations, as a carebear, I'm sure you wouldn't know this though.

 

That being said, survivability > HPS for a healer, because a dead healer has 0 HPS. It doesn't matter if your team can "support" a healer or not, a healer with 0 expertise is easy pickings for even a single half-geared DPS, your HPS really doesn't matter.

 

This guy gets it.

[Darth_Philar]

As a healer, you should be doing EVERYTHING you can to increase your survivability.

 

Pure HPS is not relevant to PvP situations, as a carebear, I'm sure you wouldn't know this though.

 

That being said, survivability > HPS for a healer, because a dead healer has 0 HPS. It doesn't matter if your team can "support" a healer or not, a healer with 0 expertise is easy pickings for even a single half-geared DPS, your HPS really doesn't matter.

 

You are relying on 1v1 for your argument.

PvP is never about 1v1, it is about objectives and teamwork.

If your team uses teamwork, your personal survivability is irrelevant as your team will be protecting you and you will never reach 0 (unless you don't know how to LoS, of course).

 

Pure HPS has its place, and that place is with a team that knows how to play and how to support their healer. I'm not recommending that every healer drop all their PvP gear and run around getting 3 shotted, in fact, I'm recommending the exact opposite. I was simply replying to a post that said there was no excuse when there actually is at least one scenario in which wearing PvP gear hurts your whole team. You are free to disagree, and perhaps your team's composition and skill is the reason you disagree. But the fact of the matter is that pure HPS is quite viable if the team is built around it.

[Kaarsa]

I'm afraid you are mistaken.

 

Expertise does about half as much for healing as it does for damage, however on equally geared players the damage will be mitigated by the DR while the healing is not. Essentially, in WH gear you can get about 12% healing boost from Expertise along with DR mitigation of Expertise-boosted damage.

 

This 12% healing boost + DR comes at the cost of about 20-30% healing boost from the surrendered secondary stats from PvE gear leaving you doing 8-18% less healing to your team. If you personally need the survivability because your team is not doing their job then you should stack expertise. If you do not need the added survivability because your team is doing their job then you should not stack expertise. You can either give yourself 24% more survivability or your team 8-18% more survivability. You need to choose which option to take based on who is in your team.

 

EDIT: I should point out that these two examples are the outliers. There is a whole range of balances available by mixing PvE and PvP gear.

 

I am not an expert on healing, but isnt expertise boost for healing only for incoming healing and generated healing is multiplicated by damage increase value? Someone tested that?

[Patched]

I am not an expert on healing, but isnt expertise boost for healing only for incoming healing and generated healing is multiplicated by damage increase value? Someone tested that?

 

You are wrong expertise boosts healing output by a healer not incoming healing. Healing output is not boosted by the damage increase.

[Darth_Philar]

I am not an expert on healing, but isnt expertise boost for healing only for incoming healing and generated healing is multiplicated by damage increase value? Someone tested that?

 

The Healing buff from Expertise applies to Healing Done by Healers, not received by the Healed player. Further, healing does not receive any benefit from the DPS buff from Expertise (since it buffs damage done, not primary stats).

 

I'm trying to find a thread I saw here that had theorycrafting, plus my own personal testing confirms this.

 

If you want to maximize HPS you need to wear PvE (or at least a mix of PvE and PvP gear). I will again caveat that maximizing HPS is only a good idea if you have the team to support that playstyle.

 

EDIT: I should also point out that if we are referring to only Recruit gear, then good PvE gear wins hands down. The amount of Expertise provided at the expense of primary and secondary stats in no way compensates a healer. It is only once you reach the Battlemaster tier that you need to start making the determination as to whether you want HPS or survivability.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[Andymantium]

No, get the gear, its 350k.. that's 1 hour of dailies, maybe 2.

 

There is no excuse to not have it... NONE

 

I'm completely dumbfounded how people don't have at least that much to spend by the time they hit 50. As I leveled up, I bought stuff off the GTN, leveled my profession, and paid for a bunch of other stuff and ended up with 1.5 million. Seriously, what are people doing that leaves them broke when they hit 50?

[shirayuki]

You are relying on 1v1 for your argument.

PvP is never about 1v1, it is about objectives and teamwork.

If your team uses teamwork, your personal survivability is irrelevant as your team will be protecting you and you will never reach 0 (unless you don't know how to LoS, of course).

 

Pure HPS has its place, and that place is with a team that knows how to play and how to support their healer. I'm not recommending that every healer drop all their PvP gear and run around getting 3 shotted, in fact, I'm recommending the exact opposite. I was simply replying to a post that said there was no excuse when there actually is at least one scenario in which wearing PvP gear hurts your whole team. You are free to disagree, and perhaps your team's composition and skill is the reason you disagree. But the fact of the matter is that pure HPS is quite viable if the team is built around it.

and anybody with a brain knows to focus a healer so even with 1 person on the healer because the lack of expertice they will be taking more damage making them have to self heal more and heal team less

[Darth_Philar]

and anybody with a brain knows to focus a healer so even with 1 person on the healer because the lack of expertice they will be taking more damage making them have to self heal more and heal team less

 

Taunt, Guard, CC, Kiting.

 

These are the skills that good teams use to protect their healer.

 

If you aren't doing these things, then your team is not supporting a pure HPS built healer and your healer should not be wearing PvE gear.

[Darth_Sookie]

Taunt, Guard, CC, Kiting.

 

These are the skills that good teams use to protect their healer.

 

If you aren't doing these things, then your team is not supporting a pure HPS built healer and your healer should not be wearing PvE gear.

 

You haven't played much premade vs premade games right? Survivability is EVERYTHING for a healer. Escpecially a sorc in light armor. The second the intercede and taunt wears off you will be eating 3-4k crits trough guard and die in seconds.

[Darth_Philar]

You haven't played much premade vs premade games right? Survivability is EVERYTHING for a healer. Escpecially a sorc in light armor. The second the intercede and taunt wears off you will be eating 3-4k crits trough guard and die in seconds.

 

Again, if your team doesn't have the skill to keep you alive, then you need to stack Expertise at the expense of keeping them alive. If they do have the skill to keep you alive, then you can find the balance of HPS and Survivability that you feel safest with.

 

It is a team effort to protect a healer. If you don't have the team to do it, then you don't do it. Simple as that.

My team is built around protecting the healer and it works for us. It takes practice and skill, but it is viable for completing objective based PvP, which is what we have.

 

Feel free to believe otherwise, I'll keep doing what works for me and you'll keep complaining about the undergeared players on your team.

[L-RANDLE]

It's dirt cheap and superior to the old epic Champion set. Sure it's not purple and you rather use your columni shiny purples but please pick up a set anyway.

 

I cringe when i see two puggers with full pve sets in my warzone when our premade comes up against another good premade. Those pve geared players will get instantly obliterated.

 

Consider that by this time you will come up against warhero geared players that will have a 24% damage bonus against you and receive 19% less damage from your attacks. Surely you can see how utterly useless you will be against such force?

 

I cold probably take on 3 pve geared players and walk away victorious that is how poor pve gear fares.

 

I generally agree but Columi>Recuit..

[Winkywinky]

im that guy that wont play 300k for it...i pvp'd 1/2 the day and and replaced 3 pieces that would have costed me 100k worth....

 

my advice is by some but not all if you hard core pvp

[L-RANDLE]

Here is one:

 

Sorcerer healers can output significantly more HPS in PvE gear than in Recruit or Battlemaster PvP gear. If the team focuses on peeling, guarding, and taunting off the healer (like they are supposed to be doing) then the healer should not wear PvP gear until they have War Hero.

 

Of course, if you are pugging as a healer in this game you are wasting your time. Friendly DPS see you as a decoy while enemy DPS see you as a free kill.

 

+1 many have not figured that out yet. It even hold some water to DPS peeps.

[DarthOvertone]

I don't necessarily agree that the Recruit set is needed. I have a Smuggler alt that was able to pull down the full Battlemaster set in one week. It's stupid easy now to gear up. I did buy some of the Recruit set pieces for him, but it was almost completely unnecessary and a waste of credits.

 

If a player is a real PvPer by any definition of the word, then I actually would advise against blowing the 300K in credits. Save the credits, just get your grind on. Obtaining BM Gear is a cakewalk now.

[croza]

Sorry, but it is true. Healing does get a boost from expertise, but it is nowhere near as much as you lose by trading away a secondary for expertise. The increased survivability for yourself means decreased survivability for your whole team as a result of lower HPS.

 

If you have a team that can support a healer, the healer should be in PvE gear for higher HPS output. If you are pugging, you should absolutely be in PvP gear and let those DPSers fend for themselves.

 

OK, you have full PVE gear, you heal a lot but die fast. You said your teammates can help you. But, with 0 expertise, it is really hard to protect you. And your teammates need to spend more time to keep you alive. Its not good. Your team won't have enough DPS to bring down your opponents healers, and win the game.

[L-RANDLE]

and anybody with a brain knows to focus a healer so even with 1 person on the healer because the lack of expertice they will be taking more damage making them have to self heal more and heal team less

 

Wrong... Expertise is a bad joke.. The HP hit alone is not worth changing to recuit gear versus tionese+ type gear..

Read my note #67

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=423665&page=7

 

Supplement information from me:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=423665&page=8

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=423665&page=9

 

 

The request needs to be restated:

 

"To all fresh 50 PvPer's that do not have 50/51 epics (regardless of where they came from)or Cent/Champ Gear or higher, or Tionese or higher, BUY RECUIT GEAR PLEASE!!"

 

To all the "complainers":

"Hey I am crafting you X, go check your mailbox in xmins..

[croza]

Again, if your team doesn't have the skill to keep you alive, then you need to stack Expertise at the expense of keeping them alive. If they do have the skill to keep you alive, then you can find the balance of HPS and Survivability that you feel safest with.

 

It is a team effort to protect a healer. If you don't have the team to do it, then you don't do it. Simple as that.

My team is built around protecting the healer and it works for us. It takes practice and skill, but it is viable for completing objective based PvP, which is what we have.

 

Feel free to believe otherwise, I'll keep doing what works for me and you'll keep complaining about the undergeared players on your team.

 

How bad your opponents are.~~~

[Actua]

Jesus, how this is up for debate is not even comprehensible to me.

 

I sport +21%, 17% dmg reduction as a DPS.

 

I'm fairly good at PvP, so when I get on a healer (full BM/war hero), I might not kill him, but he will be forced to do nothing but keep his own butt alive.

 

Now take that same healer without PvP gear. I blew air on him and he exploded. Good teams have healers marked, and any 2 DPS of any class worth their 2 cents will massacre a healer in the span of 3 seconds if they dont have PvP gear. Even peeling and guarding wont save you, the amount of dmg is just that big.

 

When 2 DPS are lining 4-5k crits every GCD on someone, that person doest have long to live and is barely an obstacle.

 

Not dying in 2 seconds in PvP aint a luxury, its a necessity, and PvE gear doesnt give you that.

[Darth_Sookie]

I generally agree but Columi>Recuit..

 

It doesn't. Not even close. It wasnt better than champ pre 1.2 and it sure as hell isn't after. No contest.

[Darth_Philar]

Jesus, how this is up for debate is not even comprehensible to me.

 

I sport +21%, 17% dmg reduction as a DPS.

 

I'm fairly good at PvP, so when I get on a healer (full BM/war hero), I might not kill him, but he will be forced to do nothing but keep his own butt alive.

 

Now take that same healer without PvP gear. I blew air on him and he exploded. Good teams have healers marked, and any 2 DPS of any class worth their 2 cents will massacre a healer in the span of 3 seconds if they dont have PvP gear. Even peeling and guarding wont save you, the amount of dmg is just that big.

 

When 2 DPS are lining 4-5k crits every GCD on someone, that person doest have long to live and is barely an obstacle.

 

Not dying in 2 seconds in PvP aint a luxury, its a necessity, and PvE gear doesnt give you that.

 

And since Recruit changes that 2 seconds into 2.1 seconds, the increased healing from PvE gear is statistically superior to survivability. Battlemaster is close to a wash. It is only once you reach War Hero tier is the Expertise boost enough to actually force you to wear any PvP gear at all.