The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[Marrond]

SWTOR was not hyped by players themselves - actualy as far as I can remember people complained since closed beta. BW/EA hyped game itself and there's no lie in this statement.

 

Frankly, there wouldn't be this much hype if the game was subscription based - the fact is, more and more games are going F2P / microtransaction based, and gamers are starting to view subscription based games in a bad light.

 

I actually prefer sub-based games. You end up paying more in F2P games, it's actually been studied to be true. As an example, I've been enjoying the Blacklight Retribution F2P FPS, but the prices on the marketplace are ridiculous - 9e for a single gun is outrageous.

You're missing the point and taking down everything to the money. GW1 was F2P since the beggining - did it attracted impossible amounts of players? No, because it was game which used single player/coop experience as tutorial to the game and it was everything about PVP. There was no grind, no PvE in meanings how most people understand this term. GW2 is hyping to the sky right now because players are excited about content and completely new game mechanics, not because it's going to be without monthly fee. I highly recommend to people to not talk about something they never experienced because atm it's looking like physicaly incapacited person would talk about his/her snowboarding experience - which they saw on the picture....

 

Second part of your post - I completely agree. I'm saying it all the time in many diffrent discussions but people tend to not see crushing truth that if you want to have same experience as you would have by paying monthly fee you actualy have to pay twice or even triple as much. They don't care because they gonna play for free (with cropped out essentail features like for example guild wars or guild bank, etc. - GG, GL, HF)

Edited April 26, 2012 by Marrond

[Leggomy]

you got 2 1/2 years for free? that's amazing.

 

I got ripped. I only got 30 days.

[Samvan]

You should google what trolling is. Its what you are doing and it is not acceptable. Luckily we have mods here and soon we wont have to see your spiteful hate filled posts anymore.

 

This is what makes today's gaming society, or even internet, very bad.

 

As soon as you don't like something that everyone else likes, and express your personal opinion about it;

 

It automatically stamps you as "trolling".

 

I thank you for being so short sighted Leggomy, instead of discussing with a dissatisfied customer you tell the customer that he's not serious at all and just wants attention like a spoiled child.

 

Way to go!

 

This is not trolling, a personal opinion is not trolling. Please understand that.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Samvan

[Kthx]

Make my voice heard that the game is sinking and the company is destroying itself.

 

It's my personal view and nothing inappropriate about it. Unless I verbally and personally insult them, which I am not.

 

Sorry to break it to you but there's nothing you can do to shoo away the dissatisfied customers

 

This is the adult version of a toddler's temper tantrum. It doesn't have to make sense.

[GreySix]

you got 2 1/2 years for free? that's amazing.

 

Indeed. Now I feel ripped off.

[Leggomy]

SWTOR was not hyped by players themselves - actualy as far as I can remember people complained since closed beta. BW/EA hyped game itself and there's no lie in this statement.

 

All I heard for two years on the LOTRO forums was how awesome SWTOR would be and they better fix blah blah blah or everyone would quit and run to SWTOR. So yes players did hype it up thinking it would be something more than what it is. A game.

[DieAlteHexe]

You've had zero losses?

 

Zero losses here, and 9 gains.

 

Not everyone listens to the negatives and gives the game a try to see if they like it.

[Jett-Rinn]

All I heard for two years on the LOTRO forums was how awesome SWTOR would be and they better fix blah blah blah or everyone would quit and run to SWTOR. So yes players did hype it up thinking it would be something more than what it is. A game.

 

Well I am enjoying SWTOR much more than I am LOTRO at the moment and if they keep going down the path of pay to win gear I will stop logging in all together.

[jedimurphy]

SWToR is just fine I think its doing good, Thing is you got the WoW generation of MMo's thinking a game has to be bombarded with people for it to be successful not everyone wants to play WoW and not everyone is into the whole midevel themed games and same for sci-fi games not everyone wants to play em either and would rather play WoW you cannot compair the two games WoW in its self caters to the young and makes things way to easy to complete it went from a decent MMO to a we listen to the winny little kids who want there gear easy so we will give it to them so they dont leave for another MMO thats all its they want to keep the numbers in there game so they will do whatever it takes to make the mass amount of plays to stay and WoW targets the younger generations way more then the older generations and believe me there is a market for the older generation of gammer.

 

I just get tired of hearing about how crappy one MMO is to another and how this one is dieing its not dieing its just losing the WoW player back to WoW cause they cannot get what they want in this game and complaining about it seems to not work so much on this game then in WoW .. I do hope SWToR stays true and keeps things as they are cause its good to work for your gear and money makes one feel good about there charator.

Edited April 26, 2012 by jedimurphy
typos

[Dayln]

But what what this MMO does compared to the rest is;

 

"OUR GAME IS WORKING AS INTENDED, ITS UR GTX 680s AND 580 IN SLI *COUGH* I MEAN LOW END COMPUTERS THAT ARE VERY BAD. OUR GAME ENGINE IS WORKING AS INTENDED. THANK YOU FOR PLAYING THIS GAME WITH 5 FPS"

 

Yeah, no company goes out blaming their customers when its clearly not their low end computers (infact they have high end).

 

Sorry to break it to you, but Bioware has hit the iceberg.

 

EVACUATE!

 

And who is it exactly that is asking you to tell others to evacuate

 

Why is it that if you decide to leave ( which you keep saying, but you don’t actually do, you just keep posting on the boards of a game you seem to hate ) why do you need to have others leave as well?

 

We are having fun, and will enjoy staying thank you very much

 

Sorry to break it to you, but you aren’t any kind of leader with lemmings following you out the door

 

You want to go out the door? Fine... go

 

Do us a favor, leave these forums for those that are still playing and enjoying this game.

[Jett-Rinn]

And who is it exactly that is asking you to tell others to evacuate

 

Why is it that if you decide to leave ( which you keep saying, but you don’t actually do, you just keep posting on the boards of a game you seem to hate ) why do you need to have others leave as well?

 

We are having fun, and will enjoy staying thank you very much

 

Sorry to break it to you, but you aren’t any kind of leader with lemmings following you out the door

 

You want to go out the door? Fine... go

 

Do us a favor, leave these forums for those that are still playing and enjoying this game.

 

Yeah I will say this; BioWare needs to shut off forum access the moment people cancel because all they are going to do is troll and disrupt the forums.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Leggomy]

Well I am enjoying SWTOR much more than I am LOTRO at the moment and if they keep going down the path of pay to win gear I will stop logging in all together.

 

I hear ya man. I was waiting for so long on SWTOR. Ive been unhappy with LOTRO since the f2p switch.

[Dayln]

Well I am enjoying SWTOR much more than I am LOTRO at the moment and if they keep going down the path of pay to win gear I will stop logging in all together.

 

I enjoyed LOTRO for over 3 and a half years, a record for me with an MMO.

 

They did a very nice job, certainly better than any other MMO on the market as no other could hold my attention that long. I didn’t feel the need to bash it on my way out, they did a great job and I loved my years playing that MMO.

 

SWTOR... well we will see, right now I am enjoying this game very much, we will see if it can break LOTRO's record for holding my attention.

[Samvan]

Why is it that if you decide to leave ( which you keep saying, but you don’t actually do, you just keep posting on the boards of a game you seem to hate ) why do you need to have others leave as well?

 

My pesonal opinion that I want to spread. I can have my voice heard that I'm dissatisfied

 

We are having fun, and will enjoy staying thank you very much

 

Good to hear it.

 

Sorry to break it to you, but you aren’t any kind of leader with lemmings following you out the door

 

You want to go out the door? Fine... go

 

Then what are you, if you're ordering people to leave when I still got a free month attached to my account ? I have my rights to stay here and speaking my mind without breaking any rules.

 

Do us a favor, leave these forums for those that are still playing and enjoying this game.

 

Again, what authority gives you this to order another customer what to do? As I explained above, since I still got play time filled in my account, I have the exact same rights as you do.

 

So unless I'm breaking a rule, showing no respect towards others (which I am ), I can still be here making my voice heard.

 

I think we're focusing too much on me "TROLLING" than why the customers are dissatisfied, please don't focus on the wrong things.

 

Thank you dear Dayln.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Samvan

[JeramieCrowe]

So 2 - 2.5 million unique customers is not successful? TOR's customer base 2 months in was stated at 1.7 million and as of now we have no numbers but we all know subs have dropped unless you're living in lala land. Anyways we will see the real success of this game in a years time if it hasn't sunk by then.

 

BioWare said TWICE last week that subs have NOT declined.

[JeramieCrowe]

You want to compare raw numbers only and state TOR is as successful as GW? I don't care how long TOR has been out there's no way in hell they will sell 6 million copies, EVER.

 

GW = 6 million

 

TOR = 2 million

 

/End discussion

 

Well, as soon as TOR puts out two expansions like GW is including in that 6 mil, we'll see, won't we?

[Blackardin]

Make my voice heard that the game is sinking and the company is destroying itself.

 

It's my personal view and nothing inappropriate about it. Unless I verbally and personally insult them, which I am not.

 

Sorry to break it to you but there's nothing you can do to shoo away the dissatisfied customers

 

But you are doing nothing of the sort. You are simply lashing out like a child, screaming that the game has hit an iceberg and is sinking. You are doing that as complete conjecture, not even a statement of contention because there is no definable evidence to support your outrageous ranting.

 

You have offered no logical argument, made no constructive criticism, produced no evidence to support your claim that there is anything wrong beyond your own personal feelings and anger that you seem to feel the need to share with us. You have further declared that you will continue to spam the boards with what amounts to little more then the image of a child sitting in the middle of the isle of a department store, screaming, because they can't have that particular shiny.

 

You have further declared that there is intent to "shoo away" a dissatisfied customer when, again, there is no evidence to support that. What we have here is your mistaken interpretation of what we see, which is not a dissatisfied customer, but an angry troll spamming hatred for a video game and threatening to continue disrupting threads with that hatred.

 

Yes, I'd like that to leave. ;p

[Jett-Rinn]

BioWare said TWICE last week that subs have NOT declined.

 

Three times actually and since they are moving into the Middle east and eastern Europe today expect a sub spike, they will move into the rest of eastern Europe by the end of summer so I wouldn't expect a sub decrease any time soon.

 

They have learned a lot from Blizzard it seems.

[Marrond]

It's actually already starting, on the GW2 beta forum the largest thread is "I can see why this is a F2P game" and it is full of QQ about:

• Gear doesn't matter
  
• where's my end game?
  
• If everyone is special then no one is
  
• Rants about the facebook like mini games
  

etc etc etc

Plus all the QQ about broken promises of innovation.

Well if you looked closer in all this QQ you would figure out one basic thing. The most complain is "why it isn't WoW". The game offers completely diffrent game design and mechanics, just like GW1 did back then - and yet GW2 is completely diffrent from GW1.

 

Now you might say - "yet you are complaing why SWTOR isn't WoW too". I don't want it to be WoW - I personally don't like nor play WoW. Yet both games in terms of game mechanics are mostly the SAME, yet SWTOR is missing a lot content which in my and many others opinion would make game better. SWTOR is ok as long as you're planning play it only in a short run. After that stairs appears.

 

You guys say game is ok, I say it SHOULD be better. You say WoW had back then same problems - I say we have 2012 and situation of WoW back then is nowhere near to situation of SWTOR now. You say BW stated there's 1,7m subs - I say what I see in game. You say SWTOR won't die - this is one thing I can agree with you, because even if game would be far worse than it is, hardcore SW/BW/EA fans would keep it alive anyway and I am sadly one of them (SW fan[atic]). All I don't understand is this global "yesman" attitude in common.

[Samvan]

But you are doing nothing of the sort. You are simply lashing out like a child, screaming that the game has hit an iceberg and is sinking. You are doing that as complete conjecture, not even a statement of contention because there is no definable evidence to support your outrageous ranting

 

If you've experienced it as a "child screaming" then I apologize if you got the intention, however the game HAS hit an iceberg since that article with the Game Director James Ohlen and is in my eyes sinking.

 

You have offered no logical argument, made no constructive criticism, produced no evidence to support your claim that there is anything wrong beyond your own personal feelings and anger that you seem to feel the need to share with us. You have further declared that you will continue to spam the boards with what amounts to little more then the image of a child sitting in the middle of the isle of a department store, screaming, because they can't have that particular shiny.

 

But you haven't even asked why I'm dissatisfied. You're instead arguing that I have no rights to be here and I have no rights to make my voice heard since I'm "attacking" the game, which I am definitely not.....just criticising it. As far as I know, criticising a game without any personal insults are allowed.

 

I'm not IGN. You can't buy me out with a free month that I change my opinion from worst to good.

 

You have further declared that there is intent to "shoo away" a dissatisfied customer when, again, there is no evidence to support that. What we have here is your mistaken interpretation of what we see, which is not a dissatisfied customer, but an angry troll spamming hatred for a video game and threatening to continue disrupting threads with that hatred.

 

Again, you're the ones arguing with me and telling me to leave like I stated above. You haven't asked me why my opinion for this game is so strong and why I still would "waste my time posting on the forums even though I have no intentions of continuing playing".

 

Hm, what do you call it.......ah yes!

 

"You are feeding the troll".

 

Please don't. Instead try to have a decent and civilized conversation. I assume you know how to have one.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Samvan

[JeramieCrowe]

Have you been over to the boards of this apparent panacea, there skip? No different then here. The whining and philosophizing of eminent doom has already begun.

 

This is not a game problem, it is not a problem with the genre either. It is a problem with the facebook generation of kids that feel that because they can bloviate their opinion all over the internet, it is somehow valid or desirable. LOL

 

The game is fine, the players are broken. ;p

 

THANK YOU! I've been trying to say this, but apparently tact won't get through to these people.

[Blackardin]

Well if you looked closer in all this QQ you would figure out one basic thing. The most complain is "why it isn't WoW". The game offers completely diffrent game design and mechanics, just like GW1 did back then - and yet GW2 is completely diffrent from GW1.

 

Now you might say - "yet you are complaing why SWTOR isn't WoW too". I don't want it to be WoW - I personally don't like nor play WoW. Yet both games in terms of game mechanics are mostly the SAME, yet SWTOR is missing a lot content which in my and many others opinion would make game better. SWTOR is ok as long as you're planning play it only in a short run. After that stairs appears.

 

You guys say game is ok, I say it SHOULD be better. You say WoW had back then same problems - I say we have 2012 and situation of WoW back then is nowhere near to situation of SWTOR now. You say BW stated there's 1,7m subs - I say what I see in game. You say SWTOR won't die - this is one thing I can agree with you, because even if game would be far worse than it is, hardcore SW/BW/EA fans would keep it alive anyway and I am sadly one of them (SW fan[atic]). All I don't understand is this global "yesman" attitude in common.

 

In other words, we are stating what we see based on factual data, your are declaring to be true and absolute what you personally feel to be true.

 

Seems to be a common theme in these games and threads. ;p

[Marrond]

But you haven't even asked why I'm dissatisfied. You're instead arguing that I have no rights to be here and I have no rights to make my voice heard since I'm "attacking" the game, which I am definitely not.....just criticising it. As far as I know, criticising a game constructively without any personal insults are allowed.

100 times more of this.

[Samvan]

100 times more of this.

 

Thank you Marrond.

 

I hope people understand it's not the game, it's the company that makes me leave.

 

Their behaviour, their attitude towards their customers is (I apologize if this becomes offensive) DISGUSTING.

 

I have no intentions of supporting a company that slaps their customers in the face and ignoring them.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Samvan

[JeramieCrowe]

Make my voice heard that the game is sinking and the company is destroying itself.

 

It's my personal view and nothing inappropriate about it. Unless I verbally and personally insult them, which I am not.

 

Sorry to break it to you but there's nothing you can do to shoo away the dissatisfied customers

 

Yeah, ok. See ya next year when the game is still floating just fine!