MojoWaffles Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Reading this thread reminds me of the "glass half full//half empty" argument. It really is a difference of perspective. There will be players who are impatient and want to see the hyped-up WoW killer arrive NOW. Then of course you have the fanboys/easily satisfied players who see nothing wrong. But in the middle you get those players who understand that the game is far from complete and are willing to stick around a while longer to see if they actually fulfill the promise. My point is that everyone wants something different out of the game and everyone has a different level of patience when it comes to waiting. I will be giving this game a few more months. I don't expect rated warzones or free server transfers to be some sort of miraculous heal-all when they finally do arrive but I do expect, and I'm sure many of the more level-headed players will agree with me here, that BW will continue to put in the features we all expect from a modern day MMO and then some. If that doesn't happen then there really is no reason to keep paying $15 a month for an unfinished and incomplete game. The idea that they will string us along as they keep delaying basic features such as arenas is just something that most players won't stand for. I hope this game runs to it's first anniversary, not crawl and stumble like so many other games have. Edited April 25, 2012 by MojoWaffles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Reading this thread reminds me of the "glass half full//half empty" argument. It really is a difference of perspective. There will be players who are impatient and want to see the hyped-up WoW killer arrive NOW. Then of course you have the fanboys/easily satisfied players who see nothing wrong. But in the middle you get those players who understand that the game is far from complete and are willing to stick around a while longer to see if they actually fulfill the promise. My point is that everyone wants something different out of the game and everyone has a different level of patience when it comes to waiting. I will be giving this game a few more months. I don't expect rated warzones or free server transfers to be some sort of miraculous heal-all when they finally do arrive but I do expect, and I'm sure many of the more level-headed players will agree with me here, that BW will continue to put in the features we all expect from a modern day MMO and then some. If that doesn't happen then there really is no reason to keep paying $15 a month for an unfinished and incomplete game. The idea that they will string us along as they keep delaying basic features such as arenas is just something that most players won't stand for. I hope this game runs to it's first anniversary, not crawl and stumble like so many other games have. Agree with most of this, except that MMOs, by definition, are NEVER "finished" or "complete". That's the point of MMOs, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Huh? No it didn't. I can't remember 1 WoW thread from release of vannilla to WoTLK (I'm sure there was the odd one, maybe)..... it may have had them in the years since that, but for that first time WoW pop was genuinely growing. People complained about a lot of things, but WoW dying wasn't one of them. There were plenty BUT it was a different tense. Most of the doom and gloomers over there would say stuff like: IF you don't do X then WoW will die. And it got said, a lot. A whole lot. Often, tons. DIsclaimer: This from U.S. release to right at end of BC beta. I ran screaming then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikHar Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Just close this tiresome thread already. Op is just beating a dead horse. CLOSE IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Huh? No it didn't. I can't remember 1 WoW thread from release of vannilla to WoTLK (I'm sure there was the odd one, maybe)..... it may have had them in the years since that, but for that first time WoW pop was genuinely growing. People complained about a lot of things, but WoW dying wasn't one of them. There were plenty BUT it was a different tense. Most of the doom and gloomers over there would say stuff like: IF you don't do X then WoW will die. And it got said, a lot. A whole lot. Often, tons. DIsclaimer: This from U.S. release to right at end of BC beta. I ran screaming then. To add to this, Goretzu is more or less correct in that not many people complained when WoW first launched. The reason is that MMOs were still relatively new, and the overall MMO genre was still small. Having a small population was normal. However, the typical "launch surge/dropoff" still happened. What's strange is that MMOers knew and expected it back then. These days, it seems to be suddenly a brand new concept that people can't seem to wrap their skulls around. Edited April 25, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidrowbro Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Not even RIFT has merged any servers. The free server transfer service they started several months after launch did just fine. Sorry, I just came from Rift. NA lost 75% of it's servers. They only have 16 servers. They merged, trust me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 As to this game, to be honest, I personally think it came out a year or 2 too early, there's so much missing from the game even compared to F2P browser based MMOs its frightening the sheer amount of features missing Like what, exactly? Not every game needs to have the same fluff, whether it carries the MMO label or not. One player's housing is another player's feelings of wasted development time that could have been spent creating more actual content. But I am curious as to what things you wanted to have in this game. Good point....GW2 currently only has 490K likes on their face book page TOR had well over a million at this stage and over the past month it has gone from 1.5 to 1.9 mil (remember that number drops if you unlike)....some folks are even saying that GW2 might get a half million sales and are doing happy dances about that; In it's first five months TOR is over two million sales and around 1.7 million subscribers... people minimizing the success of this game are mind boggling. Because the game doesn't fit into their view of what it should be. The same thing went on with GW1 and still goes on today. I find it funny players will complain non-stop about games that offer more of the same, but when one comes out that tries to be different, they complain about all the stuff it doesn't have - essentially wanting the game to be "more of the same." Everybody wants a game to be the true "WoW killer" ... but only as long as it is just like WoW. BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) To add to this, Goretzu is more or less correct in that not many people complained when WoW first launched. The reason is that MMOs were still relatively new, and the overall MMO genre was still small. Having a small population was normal. However, the typical "launch surge/dropoff" still happened. What's strange is that MMOers knew and expected it back then. These days, it seems to be suddenly a brand new concept that people can't seem to wrap their skulls around. Going to have to beg to differ. I "worked" (MVP) on Blizz forums in that time frame and I read just about every single message in several sections (one of which was General) and there were absolutely "doom 'n' gloom" posts. LOADS of them along with the standard "wait 'til game x comes out, they will KILL this (WoW) game". This has been going on since DAoC was released (and even a bit when EQ was released amongst the UO folks) but the sheer volume now is astounding. ETA: Forgot...heh...the drop-off is pretty standard, indeed. Both in sub. numbers and concurrency. Have seen it from DAoC on out, every single time. Edited April 25, 2012 by DieAlteHexe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Just close this tiresome thread already. Op is just beating a dead horse. CLOSE IT!!! Yeah I miss the days when Troll bait threads like these were closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Going to have to beg to differ. I "worked" (MVP) on Blizz forums in that time frame and I read just about every single message in several sections (one of which was General) and there were absolutely "doom 'n' gloom" posts. LOADS of them along with the standard "wait 'til game x comes out, they will KILL this (WoW) game". This has been going on since DAoC was released (and even a bit when EQ was released amongst the UO folks) but the sheer volume now is astounding. Because back then you didn't have Astroturfing companies and the EA hate brigade. MMO's today are like Highlander for some odd reason folks think there can be only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakuenCallisto Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yeah I miss the days when Troll bait threads like these were closed. I miss the days when gaming companies cared about their community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanxxx Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 However, the typical "launch surge/dropoff" still happened. What's strange is that MMOers knew and expected it back then. These days, it seems to be suddenly a brand new concept that people can't seem to wrap their skulls around. A bit condescending, everyone understands the concept, what is concerning people is the scale, perceived or otherwise, of the dropoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Because back then you didn't have Astroturfing companies and the EA hate brigade. MMO's today are like Highlander for some odd reason folks think there can be only one. Something I have never understood, but find fascinating. Game loyalty. I've seen grown adults get incredibly angry if someone said something along the lines of "well, I enjoy playing X but I also enjoy playing Y". It's as if one was cheating on one's spouse. I guess that's why I giggle when I get called a "fanboi" cos I don't HAVE any particular game loyalty. I play what amuses me and that changes fairly often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 There were plenty BUT it was a different tense. Most of the doom and gloomers over there would say stuff like: IF you don't do X then WoW will die. And it got said, a lot. A whole lot. Often, tons. DIsclaimer: This from U.S. release to right at end of BC beta. I ran screaming then. Yeah there were "if you don't do X WoW will die" threads, but they were the usual hyperbole. There weren't any "WoW is dying" threads. Nor any threads about general server pops (appart from queues) or general lack of players on most servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 To add to this, Goretzu is more or less correct in that not many people complained when WoW first launched. The reason is that MMOs were still relatively new, and the overall MMO genre was still small. Having a small population was normal. However, the typical "launch surge/dropoff" still happened. What's strange is that MMOers knew and expected it back then. These days, it seems to be suddenly a brand new concept that people can't seem to wrap their skulls around. Oh they complained, just like they had in UO, EQ1, AC, DAoC etc. before hand. But not about servers being empty in those days or WoW dying (I don't think WoW really dropped, but neither did it get X million at release and hold them either). I've no idea why Bioware didn't plan for the SWTOR surge though, their staggered access seemed to be the plan, but it probably made things worse in many respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I miss the days when gaming companies cared about their community. I miss the days when gamers were intelligent, thoughtful people and not full of hyperbole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Because back then you didn't have Astroturfing companies and the EA hate brigade. MMO's today are like Highlander for some odd reason folks think there can be only one. The hate SoE and Verant used to get is orders of magnitude beyond anything I've ever seen aimed at EA here or in Warhammer Online. And at one point that were banning anyone on the EQ1 board for using the term VAK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I miss the days when gamers were intelligent, thoughtful people and not full of hyperbole That was either never or in an alternate reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The hate SoE and Verant used to get is orders of magnitude beyond anything I've ever seen aimed at EA here or in Warhammer Online. And at one point that were banning anyone on the EQ1 board for using the term VAK. Oh wow I totally forgot about VAK.........yeah shortly after that they got rid of the forums for awhile as I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yeah there were "if you don't do X WoW will die" threads, but they were the usual hyperbole. There weren't any "WoW is dying" threads. Nor any threads about general server pops (appart from queues) or general lack of players on most servers. The queues and the crashing (mostly early on for the latter). There were some who claimed that WoW would never last "x" years but they were lost in the rest of the uproar-du-jour stuff. Point being this type of prophecy has been ongoing since UO days, but lately...yikes...exponentially worse. I truly feel badly for absolute newcomers to the genre (are there any left?) because forums now-days are more about how loud one can shout and very much less about exchanging information and fostering community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I miss the days when gaming companies cared about their community. I could write a long list of all the things BioWare has done to demonstrate community involvement, but let me instead turn the question on you: How does BioWare benefit by not caring about its customers? What motivation do they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolcia Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yeah there were "if you don't do X WoW will die" threads, but they were the usual hyperbole. There weren't any "WoW is dying" threads. Nor any threads about general server pops (appart from queues) or general lack of players on most servers. There have been WoW is dying threads for years now. There are also articles about it from MMO sites. And posts about it in the forums of other games. And yet, it continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakuenCallisto Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I could write a long list of all the things BioWare has done to demonstrate community involvement, but let me instead turn the question on you: How does BioWare benefit by not caring about its customers? What motivation do they have? Do I even need to list all the debacles BioWare has come out with in the past year? How much rage they've induced into their longtime fans? I should have used the word imcompetent, because it's not like they don't care about their community - it is how they make money after all. EA is just all about fashion over function. Getting the title out of the door as fast as the wolves can devour it, just so they can get swimming in the cash even faster. They're known for it. This is a recurring thing with them. Week after week, patch after patch I'm disappointed and feel ignored. I come on the threads almost every day and see the same 3-4 same threads reaching hundreds of pages, all with viable and very, very important issues that need to be addressed NOW! Not Legacy or pets or dumb asinine stuff they continue to crank out that no one cares about. We want: 1) Server merges. 2) LFG tool. 3) Cross server compatibility 4) Open World PvP. 5) ACTUAL INCENTIVE for exploring and having adventures. These are just a few things I see repeated on a daily basis that are single handedly destroying the games longevity and the community. The funny part too is, all of this stuff should have been implemented in beta. Not a half a year (probably longer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Do I even need to list all the debacles BioWare has come out with in the past year? How much rage they've induced into their longtime fans? All of which increased BioWare's popularity and sales? Sure, go ahead. I should have used the word imcompetent, because it's not like they don't care about their community - it is how they make money after all. EA is just all about fashion over function. Getting the title out of the door as fast as the wolves can devour it, just so they can get swimming in the cash even faster. They're known for it. This is a recurring thing with them. EA has, fortunately, kept their nose out of BW's business, and just let them handle it. It's plainly evident. Week after week, patch after patch I'm disappointed and feel ignored. I come on the threads almost every day and see the same 3-4 same threads reaching hundreds of pages, all with viable and very, very important issues that need to be addressed NOW! I realize that *YOU* may feel ignored, but the community definitely is not. The very patches you mention here is proof of that. Not Legacy or pets or dumb asinine stuff they continue to crank out that no one cares about. I care about them. A lot. We want: 1) Server merges. Unnecessary. Server transfers will work just fine. 2) LFG tool. It's coming. And right on schedule with every other MMO ever published. No MMO has had an LFG tool at launch. EVER. 3) Cross server compatibility Again, it's coming for warzones. Otherwise, should NOT be allowed. 4) Open World PvP. That would be nice. All that has to happen now is for the damned PvPers to agree on something... ANYTHING. 5) ACTUAL INCENTIVE for exploring and having adventures. You mean more incentive? Because there already is incentive... These are just a few things I see repeated on a daily basis that are single handedly destroying the games longevity and the community. The funny part too is, all of this stuff should have been implemented in beta. Not a half a year (probably longer). In beta? When no other MMO ever has because of the scale of production? Unrealistic expectations much? Even TERA is launching without PvP... Every MMO launches without this or that because it's the very nature of MMOs! It's never done! Edited April 25, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanxxx Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 1) Server merges. Unnecessary. Server transfers will work just fine. 2) LFG tool. It's coming. And right on schedule with every other MMO ever published. No MMO has had an LFG tool at launch. EVER. 3) Cross server compatibility Again, it's coming for warzones. Otherwise, should NOT be allowed. 4) Open World PvP. That would be nice. All that has to happen now is for the damned PvPers to agree on something... ANYTHING. 5) ACTUAL INCENTIVE for exploring and having adventures. You mean more incentive? Because there already is incentive... 1. Yes they will but they're not available now just some unspecified time in the future. 2. So apparently is Jesus, how long will people wait. 3. See 2 4. It's a shame that a group of experienced devs couldn't get it anywhere near right in 3-5 years. 5. A low level of satisfaction isn't for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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