Healing, definately out of control at the moment. need some sort of check on them

[Shadow__]

It's amazing how delusional or bad most of these so called healers are. Healers are balanced with guard and taunts in mind. 3 healers in a group with a few tanks and a couple of dps can wipe the floor with anything I've ever seen so far. This game is not balanced 1v1, healers are powerful in group encounters. Yes, that means 1v1 you will most likely lose unless you can kite/run away.

 

If you cannot pull 400-500k+ healing in a voidstar healfest (none of the teams capable of breaking through the first door, this usually involves 2 teams with 3 healers each) get better gear and learn to play. I've seen 650k+ post patch plenty of times. Overall, healing is still very strong and geared healers do very well. Of course, this assumes group play where your tanks actually protect your healers and swap guards accordingly etc.

 

Sorry your merc can't facetank 2-3 people anymore, but anyone with any sense of reasoning agrees that was broken. If anything, I would buff the survivability expertise provides and nerf healing even more(buff surv to damage levels, nerf the bonus healing more). Also, I would look at alacrity stacking. 1.3-1.4 seconds/big heal, or even less for mercs, makes them pretty much unkillable as long as the alacrity cds are up. Really seems the drs on alacrity are either broken or non existent, comapred to for example surge where it's next to impossible to pass 82% crit.

 

TLDR: Good and geared healers with proper support are still amazing. The problem lies somewhere else.

 

EDIT: Removed wrong quote ^.^

Edited April 22, 2012 by Shadow__

[ebado]

It's amazing how delusional or bad most of these so called healers are. Healers are balanced with guard and taunts in mind. 3 healers in a group with a few tanks and a couple of dps can wipe the floor with anything I've ever seen so far. This game is not balanced 1v1, healers are powerful in group encounters. Yes, that means 1v1 you will most likely lose unless you can kite/run away.

 

If you cannot pull 400-500k+ healing in a voidstar healfest (none of the teams capable of breaking through the first door, this usually involves 2 teams with 3 healers each) get better gear and learn to play. I've seen 650k+ post patch plenty of times. Overall, healing is still very strong and geared healers do very well. Of course, this assumes group play where your tanks actually protect your healers and swap guards accordingly etc.

 

Sorry your merc can't facetank 2-3 people anymore, but anyone with any sense of reasoning agrees that was broken. If anything, I would buff the survivability expertise provides and nerf healing even more(buff surv to damage levels, nerf the bonus healing more). Also, I would look at alacrity stacking. 1.3-1.4 seconds/big heal, or even less for mercs, makes them pretty much unkillable as long as the alacrity cds are up. Really seems the drs on alacrity are either broken or non existent, comapred to for example surge where it's next to impossible to pass 82% crit.

 

TLDR: Good and geared healers with proper support are still amazing. The problem lies somewhere else.

 

This was quite a random post. I don't play a merc by the way, nor have I complained about the healing changes.

[Luminastik]

i actually do not think that a single dps should be able to beat a pure healer in an 1on1. if a healer can't heal himself against one dps what use is he in a group fight?

though 2 dps shold be able to beat any healer, not instant though.

 

I think this may actually be the first smart thing I've seen someone say on the forums in a long time. Kudos for using your brain.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Luminastik

[me_unknown]

I think this may actually be the first smart thing I've seen someone say on the forums in a long time. Kudos for using your brain.

 

i earn my money by using my brain. you would be surprised what i do

[cashogy]

healing is not broken. it just requires 2 things:

 

a) more intelligence when it comes to resource management

 

b) good teammates.

 

this is a team based game, first and foremost. i suggest getting a good team if youre having trouble.

 

also, healers have this obsession with keeping players at max health. its not really necessary. when i play my healer (granted only level 25 so not really representative of the gameplay experience at 50) i try to keep my teammates between 50-75% health. if theyre below 50% i focus more heals on that player, if theyre above 75% i wont heal them unless there is a lull in combat.

 

you really have to anticipate damage as a healer, and pay attention to targets that are likely to get focused. you also need to put yourself in a position that makes it difficult for enemies to easily get to you.

 

again, healer is not broken. the skill cap has just been raised significantly. learn your class and you will succeed.

[Shadow__]

i earn my money by using my brain. you would be surprised what i do

 

With guard and taunt in game, if a healer can fairly easily heal through 1 dps, dps would essentially become useless. A guarded healer can than easily heal through 2 dps, keep the tank guarding him up, and toss some extra heals around him. Currently, this is actually fairly close to how it in the game and it's broken imo. The damage is also a bit skewed due to mara's/sent's pulling stupid numbers.

 

If anything 1v1 should be around gear/skill with either side having equal chances of winning.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Shadow__

[olagaton]

@all the comments to this thread:

lmao, it's been almost 2 weeks since 1.2, and people are still believing that DPS got buffed, and that the expertise changes nerfed healing?

 

wow, just wow. some people need to read some of the Expertise mechanic threads instead of the complaint threads to get some understanding.

Edited April 22, 2012 by olagaton

[me_unknown]

With guard and taunt in game, if a healer can fairly easily heal through 1 dps, dps would essentially become useless.

really? i think this was the situation before 1.2. i don't remember dps were useless.

A guarded healer can than easily heal through 2 dps, keep the tank guarding him up, and toss some extra heals around him. Currently, this is actually fairly close to how it in the game and it's broken imo.

no it's not. not even close. any two dps can easily kill a tank + healer by focusing the healer. even with guard and taunt!

 

If anything 1v1 should be around gear/skill with either side having equal chances of winning.

not for group pvp. here healers MUST be healing more than one dps can do damage! otherwise healers are useless.

 

p.s. i am not playing a healer btw. i never liked it.

 

edit: p.p.s. godammit... i play a tank hybrid and i can bring down any healer below 10% in 1on1, often even while guarded. don't tell me this is how it should be!

Edited April 22, 2012 by me_unknown

[criminalheretic]

first i didn't wanted to answer you this, as this question is so stupid that you ask that i thought it won't help you anyway. then i said to myself: "he is just emotional". so i try to answer you this:

 

yes, healer also have their cc's. as a dps you ust have to wait till they use it and with your high amount of dmg you will force them (use an interrupt maybe). they will use their cc to get time to heal back. well, no it is your time for burst and cc and they can do nearly nothing against it as they already burned theirs.

 

why does this work? because they do far less damage to you, so you have plently of time to force them to use their cc.

 

you get the point? their cc does not help to win the fight, it only gives them time to wait for help or to run away.

 

 

but beside of this, i actually do not think that a single dps should be able to beat a pure healer in an 1on1. if a healer can't heal himself against one dps what use is he in a group fight?

though 2 dps shold be able to beat any healer, not instant though.

 

Flip side - If a single DPS can't beat a single healer, what use is the DPS?

 

Objectives aside, a pure healer against a pure DPS should be a longer fight, where the DPS eventually wins. (I'll explain why below) If it requires two people to kill someone, that is the very definition of OP. You only get 8 people in a WZ (if you're lucky) if they need 2 for every 1 of yours, you win by default.

 

The problem with people complaining about classes being OP, is that PVP is never "Objectives Aside". When I roll up on a gunslinger by a door in Voidstar with my Marauder he complains that I am OP when I kill him. He conveniently forgets about the times when he is camped in cover by a turret on Alderaan and has me down to 50% health before I even reach him, after which he of course kills me. But that is not OP on his part (not sarcasm), it's just dumb of me to run across an open space to attack a ranged DPS in cover. So in summary, if the fight starts with me far away, I should lose and I do. If it starts with me up close and personal, I am apparently still supposed to lose, and I am OP if I don't. (sarcasm)

 

What does this have to do with healing? Same principal. Class roles. If you do what your class is designed to do, you are not killing me, you are keeping other players like me alive to kill me. It's not sexy, but if you wanna take people out, don't roll a healer. People seem to forget that it isn't so much of question of heals vs damage. It's heals + damage vs damage. 1v1 the DPS 'should' win, because that's what my class is 'designed' to do. BUT if you are part of a group, your healing should vastly improve because group heals are wasted in a 1v1 fight. So instead healing yourself for 1000, you are healing you and another DPS 1000 each. Make sense?

 

Healer vs DPS - DPS Should win

Healer+DPS vs DPS+DPS - Healer+DPS should crush it, and usually does in my experience.

[me_unknown]

Flip side - If a single DPS can't beat a single healer, what use is the DPS?

no it is not the flip side. actually it scares me that people think it is.

 

Objectives aside, a pure healer against a pure DPS should be a longer fight, where the DPS eventually wins. (I'll explain why below) If it requires two people to kill someone, that is the very definition of OP. You only get 8 people in a WZ (if you're lucky) if they need 2 for every 1 of yours, you win by default.

 

objectives aside? sorry, but we don't have death match warzones. We have group pvp warzones with objectives.

 

ibut not only this you want a healer to always lose against 1 dps? so why take a healer with you? like you say, objectives aside a healer would always be a wasted spot.

 

but we have objectives: that's why you can't bring in too many healers! the objectives actually are naturally limiting the number of healers. making them weaker in healing makes them useless.

 

 

edit: additionally: you can focus dps hence nullifying healing. now you can focus heal of course too, but this is very limited because of the limited max hp (you can't queue healing!). so with enough dps players you can kill anyobdy no matter how many healers are healing him.

 

and finally, a match with mostly healers is very boring, not to forget that most people do not like to heal but prefere to do damage. so we need to make healer attractive.

 

..... no really, it is a shame what i read here.

Edited April 22, 2012 by me_unknown

[Shadow__]

no it's not. not even close. any two dps can easily kill a tank + healer by focusing the healer. even with guard and taunt!

 

Just wow. You cannot focus a guarded and babysat healer in this scenario. He can heal through 1 dps easily, so with guard he can heal through two of them and throw a heal on the tank here and there. The tank can taunt the dps which gives the healer extra room for even more heals. He can use cc's to take a break from damage, the healer can also kite and los. The dps will die sooner or later to the tank. If you are a healer and lose with a tank to 2 dps, you either need to get some gear or seriously learn to play. If the tank is a sin/shadow, such scenario is not even a contest. Also someone needs to look up how guard works and how much actual mitigation it provides.

 

Healers are still too strong, the numbers prove it. 700k+ healing in a warzone is stupid. You can ignore the facts and claim that you want your OP healers back. I and most people who actually do group pvp disagree. If anything, healing should be nerfed a bit more and survivability buffed.

[Masturomenos]

No rated team worth their salt is going to bring more than 2 healers, and one of those might even be a hybrid. Expertise favoring damage done ensured that.

 

Exactly and 2 heals is pushing it. A dps with a medpack brings more utiliy then any pure heal spec. I mean god forbid the dps has cloak lol that one dps is more useful then 2 healers.

 

When ttk is under 5 seconds for a dps and under 10 for a tank a healer offers nothing. Getting off 3 casts for 2k a peice in a 10 second window means squat when one cd from a dps does 10k damage.

 

People be serious this isnt 1100 rating arena ranked wzs will further prove what we have said on the ptr if the empty servers and the fact that gw2 has more pre purchases then swtor has subs hasnt proved it already.

 

I hope everyone has a dps and tank toon because healers are broken now cant wait to see what they are worth when people are playing and communicating on vent.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Masturomenos]

The only thing swtor will prove is that even with half a decade and 300 million dollars u cant make a decent game.

 

I wish before the devs focused on balancethe made a decent gtn, or a working inerface. It took them 4 months after half a decade to give us a halfass interface any programer could throw up on curse.com within a week. So lets not back a company that ruined a fps (me3) and a movie franchise 30 plus years strong within the first quarter of 2012.

 

Atleast vanilla wow had challenging content atlast i had to wand for mana and feign death to drink. Were making excuses for mistakes a game didnt makein 2004 that this game is making 7 years later. Please no one can tell me that BW knows what they are doing. Lol. We cant even copy a toon to ptr. Lol. Whats next they gonna invent decursive.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Masturomenos

[IronScarlet]

regardless of the expertise changes, 4 full battlemaster dps were unable to down a single healer, because you have 4 healers all healing whichever one is being focused until their backup arrives. it does work, but unfortunately it isn't a very good system when it makes a team unkillable due to spamming heals repeatedly, even in dps form. you only have so many inturrupts and they have just as many different heals that come back up quicker than your inturrupts.

 

unfortunately there are a lot of fanboys that rely on "l2p" and "baddies" as their main focus of retort, which is funny, because currently i see more healers, marauders, and sentinels than ever before.

 

 

 

it used to be no problem for healing as people only "needed" 2 healers per team to make a difference, and they were easier to actually focus down, because they were either alone with their dps/tank counterparts, or they were with their other healer which meant the other nodes/areas werent under constant heals.

 

but now people are overcompensating and teaming up with multiple healers, essentially even though the healing is down and the damage is up, it makes it much harder to focus a single rhealer when 2-3 others are focus healing him at the same time the dps is attacking. and lets face it, there are more ways to mitigate damage, than there are to keep someone from being healed for much. bioware forgot to add certain abilties that mitigate healing done to targets. ie target is always taking less than 80% damage, but always receiving 100% healing.

 

Can we all agree that 80% of these people on the forums are terriable at pvp. 2 Dps equal gear can spike a healer down now post 1.2. If u see cross heals CC the other or seperate them.

 

IF you face a PREMADE on a PUG 4 healer or 2 or none; Your going to get ur a** handed to you.. Stop this BS about healers being still op.

 

STOP the whinning on the forums and ask for some help. Really every class has been called op, because of this bs we have a no skilled game now. NOW we have No trinity only DPS and if u dont know that, A your not 50, B. role another classes and try them out.

 

I got it lets make a I WIN BUTTON. jk

[Meenos]

Try to kill a sorc healer a Op healer and a tank jugg that places gaurd on whoever is getting focused. nobody will die.

[Syylara]

Try to kill a sorc healer a Op healer and a tank jugg that places gaurd on whoever is getting focused. nobody will die.

 

Well, the scenario you present involves 3 players coordinating well together.

 

That means 3 other players need to do just as good if not better a job of coordinating together to beat them.

[AHChrist]

Try to kill a sorc healer a Op healer and a tank jugg that places gaurd on whoever is getting focused. nobody will die.

 

Sure if you attack the sorc, your buddy attacks the op healer, and some other guy attacks the tank. Try CCing the tank and a healer then chain stun one healer and dps him down. Guess what? You just killed a healer. Repeat on other healer before tank even fills his resolve bar.

 

Problem with this game is, every dps wants to be able to solo any class no matter what. No wonder it sucks so bad because BW actually listened. Too bad some of you still suck so bad you can't do it.

[Masturomenos]

Try to kill a sorc healer a Op healer and a tank jugg that places gaurd on whoever is getting focused. nobody will die.

 

Oh so u expect to be able to kill 2 people by urself. I see its a self esteem issue. Why should one dps kill a tank and healer while a tank and a healer need a minute to kill u?

[Zbus]

I dont know that healing is out of control but I will admit to seeing a huge increase of hybird healing spec teams in the past few weeks. And by that I mean full teams of merc / OP premades. 2 full time healers 1 op and the other merc 2 pure dps mercs and the last 4 are a hybird split of merc/OP healing dps.

 

The group is a royal pain in the butt to kill due to the sheer volume of healing but I cant say that healing needs a nerf. I see groups of mara running around speed ganking people to offset thier weakness in prolonged fights by killing faster. I myself try to group with other Gun Slingers when i can find them to help offset our cover mechanic problems and to kill other players faster so it makes since that healers would group in ever larger groups to off set the weakness they feel after 1.2 nerfs. So my advice to you OP find ways to group up and use tactics that counter the healers in groups. Do what the healers have done which is adapt and stop calling for nerfs without just reasons.

[goulet]

unless youre talking about a bh/trooper healer who are ridiculous with that no interrupt shield, the others can be handled.

[Masturomenos]

I dont know that healing is out of control but I will admit to seeing a huge increase of hybird healing spec teams in the past few weeks. And by that I mean full teams of merc / OP premades. 2 full time healers 1 op and the other merc 2 pure dps mercs and the last 4 are a hybird split of merc/OP healing dps.

 

The group is a royal pain in the butt to kill due to the sheer volume of healing but I cant say that healing needs a nerf. I see groups of mara running around speed ganking people to offset thier weakness in prolonged fights by killing faster. I myself try to group with other Gun Slingers when i can find them to help offset our cover mechanic problems and to kill other players faster so it makes since that healers would group in ever larger groups to off set the weakness they feel after 1.2 nerfs. So my advice to you OP find ways to group up and use tactics that counter the healers in groups. Do what the healers have done which is adapt and stop calling for nerfs without just reasons.

 

Oh so the hyrbid spec bioware has been trying to kill since launch is definately the answer. So lets see i put 31 points in bh dps and 10 in heals? Yea def a hybrid or do u mean a dps that is self sufficient. I posted on the ptr that dps bh with healing points is more usefll then a pure healer. Thats bad design. So now healers are obsolete but dps with a faster casted heal and medpack are op? Yea GG im sure ur pug group against a premade really tested their limits.

[Masturomenos]

So a dps can be a dps a tank can be a tank but healers have to be hybrids. Yes thats good design. Bad players back bad devs. Itsclear as day.

[Anbokr]

Agreed. Healers are still very strong and when you have at least 2-3 healers healing one another with a guard on 1-2 of those guys; it's game over.

[Masturomenos]

unless youre talking about a bh/trooper healer who are ridiculous with that no interrupt shield, the others can be handled.

 

Ok so otherthen every 2 minutes ur telling us u cant interupt a bh healer. Yea u proved the community wrong. Since every 2 minutes for a couple seconds u cant not use ur interupt the game is def working as intended. How about this u have 120 seconds to use a interupt try that then come post. Right now all ur doing is proving our point for us and mking urself look like the worlds worst player.

[Masturomenos]

Try to kill a sorc healer a Op healer and a tank jugg that places gaurd on whoever is getting focused. nobody will die.

 

Dude are u serious? Sorc healers in pvp are the easest targets to take down. Come on seriously unless ur a lvl30 sorc healer trying to kill a lvl50 sorc healer u should not take more then one interupt and 6 seconds to kill them. Wow is swtor where the bad go to play?

 

I cant wait for ranked wzs when all u experts have to post ur teams ranking and prove it. Enjoy the next month or two because come ranked wzs ur opinions without backup mean nothing.