PVP Premade Issues

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

I've been seeing quite a bit of complaining about premade groups in pvp, and I've yet to figure out a valid reason for it. They say that as a result people are no longer queing solo and it makes the game harder for them. But, isn't this normal? Why force people not to play with their friends? People playing together is natural so why not capitalize on it? It's like saying that making the difficulty for operations viable for 8 mans is discouraging solo play and so one should make all group instances solo. It makes no sense. Can someone give a valid reason that premade groups in pvp is bad?

[teambff]

indeed, join the anti-premade legion, our cause is just.

premades have no place in pugs, let them fight each other and be together. leave our pugs alone.

they want "group activity" and to play with "their friends" , well.. let them do so... together, away from pugs.

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

A separate que for premades? That would be too difficult on the que times for premades since server populations are not balanced. I'd only side with that if the pvp was expanded past server limitations and done on a region wide que. Until then, let people pvp how they want. Don't hate on people because they want to play with friends. This is how i see it. I don't get the issue except people don't want coordinated play unless they're the ones coordinated.

[V-Serp]

I've been seeing quite a bit of complaining about premade groups in pvp, and I've yet to figure out a valid reason for it. They say that as a result people are no longer queing solo and it makes the game harder for them. But, isn't this normal? Why force people not to play with their friends? People playing together is natural so why not capitalize on it? It's like saying that making the difficulty for operations viable for 8 mans is discouraging solo play and so one should make all group instances solo. It makes no sense. Can someone give a valid reason that premade groups in pvp is bad?

 

Your reasoning makes no sense to me and is completely illogical.

 

How are you being punished if you're playing against other groups? Nobody is saying the group queue function should be removed.

 

According to you, it is punishment to make a premade group play another premade group. So therefore it is punishment to make a solo group face a premade group. Logically it follows that you are against solo queuers facing premade groups.

 

You probably don't even understand how you made a self defeating argument when logic is applied. Hopefully someone can point it out to you if you still don't get it after reading what I wrote.

[teambff]

A separate que for premades? That would be too difficult on the que times for premades since server populations are not balanced. I'd only side with that if the pvp was expanded past server limitations and done on a region wide que. Until then, let people pvp how they want. Don't hate on people because they want to play with friends. This is how i see it. I don't get the issue except people don't want coordinated play unless they're the ones coordinated.

 

indeed, join the anti-premade legion, our cause is just.

premades have no place in pugs, let them fight each other and be together. leave our pugs alone.

they want "group activity" and to play with "their friends" , well.. let them do so... together, away from pugs.

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

Nobody is saying the group queue function should be removed.

 

If you take a few seconds to look at the topics in the pvp forum or, for instance, the other one guy in this thread, people have hate for premades. They're complaining a **** ton. This isn't an argument. This is me asking for a valid reason why people hate premades. I see no reason why there is so much hate as I think premade groups is not punishing and is in fact a good thing and want to know why people are complaining so much. Do you understand now or do I need to spell it out in a even more basic form?

[Zepidel]

How are you being punished if you're playing against other groups?

 

I would say 3 hour Q times are a punishment. Hell on my server there are so few reps queuing that as a premade you could very easily just all solo Q at the same time and get in the same warzone anyway.

[Tsaritsin]

indeed, join the anti-premade legion, our cause is just.

premades have no place in pugs, let them fight each other and be together. leave our pugs alone.

they want "group activity" and to play with "their friends" , well.. let them do so... together, away from pugs.

 

Yeah, allow premades to queue only against other premades,

 

And then you just watch how fast people lose interest in forming premades, when it dawns on them that they can no longer FARM pugs all day long.

 

[MonsAlpha]

Or just have a separate queue and place premades against one another . Obviously this would e a problem for low population servers....but that's where cross server queuing comes in. I was on my Mara yesterday after spending the whole day on my Sage, I lost every match against the same premade, went back to my Sage...lost every single match.

[V-Serp]

I would say 3 hour Q times are a punishment. Hell on my server there are so few reps queuing that as a premade you could very easily just all solo Q at the same time and get in the same warzone anyway.

 

I got an infraction in this thread for responding to the troll, apparently he is going to be allowed to take free shots at me so I won't be responding to him. The mods here are as retarded as ever I see.

 

To respond to your post: why are queue times longer for premades? Is it because the vast majority of players solo queue rather than queue in premades?

 

In that case, why should the game cater the the minority at the expense of the majority? If the minority is unwilling to wait and unwilling to form a large enough community for it to be viable to play against each other, they can just solo queue.

 

When rated warzones show up, they should be only 8v8 anyway, so if the community can't even support 4 man premades now it sure as hell won't be able to support a full rated warzone. Maybe that's why the rated warzones were scrapped, Bioware looked at the metrics and realized there aren't enough players, and the vast majority of premades exist only to farm PUGs and won't even play rated warzones because they'd have to actually face other premades, and they know they'd just lose all the time.

 

Why do you think Bioware had to rush the patch fix and offer everyone a free day and then a free month of playtime? The game was about to collapse. If they're too stupid to learn from their mistakes, this game WILL collapse and go F2P by the end of the year. Then there will be barely anyone to play with, and the premade groups will go to a new game to ruin that, except most games won't allow premade vs. PUG so they'll have to look really hard for the games that will allow it. Right now they're laughing it up at Bioware's stupidity.

[ebado]

I queue solo and with various premades. Probably about half. This doesn't count queuing with one other guildy, as I don't think two people count as a premade.

 

I don't do it to "farm pugs." I do it to get good matches. I have no issue winning matches outside of the premade. I get my daily done solo or with a guildy before I jump in group matches. We do it to match up with the other groups on the server for more dynamic, engaging matches. It's nice looking across the way and seeing a good team, knowing you have a good team and knowing it will be a good match.

 

And if we are so scared of playing other groups, why do the same people that play in premades on our server from both factions go to Outlaws Den almost every weekend for organized 4v4, 2v2 etc tournaments?

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

3 hour que? That's rather rough. But it's not a result of the premade, it's a result of low population or lack of balance.

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

I don't do it to "farm pugs." I do it to get good matches.

 

Perfect reply. Premades aren't there for people to be cheap, at least most people I'm sure. They're there because they want to play as a team against formidable foes. If a premade group continued to roll over all the people around then I'm sure it would not be very fun for too long.

[Roccobb]

At the summit, I am pretty sure they said that once they offer cross server pvp, all matches will be pug vs pug and team vs team. Until then, it would just dramatically increase your Que time. I am fine with waiting.

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

At the summit, I am pretty sure they said that once they offer cross server pvp, all matches will be pug vs pug and team vs team. Until then, it would just dramatically increase your Que time. I am fine with waiting.

 

Perfectly said.

[V-Serp]

. It's nice looking across the way and seeing a good team, knowing you have a good team and knowing it will be a good match.

 

Then why are you complaining about group vs. group queues?

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

Then why are you complaining about group vs. group queues?

 

He isn't. That's the second post you've misunderstood to the point of thinking it promotes the opposite. You're either a really bad troll, or illiterate.

[V-Serp]

He isn't.

 

Oh okay so we're all in agreement now. PUG vs PUG and group vs. group, and no more solo vs. premade?

 

What was the point of this thread again?

 

Oh yeah, it's you whining that you don't want premade vs premade.

 

Gosh you two are so intelligent, I wish I could follow your brilliant logic and understand how 1+1=3 like you do.

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

Oh yeah, it's you whining that you don't want premade vs premade.

 

Wrong again. I wasn't whining. I wanted to know why people are complaining. As I've said constantly in this thread. I've also said in this thread the same thing as this guy. Premades are good. If people don't want to face premades, then don't pvp because group play will always be part of mmo games. You just seem to be unable to understand the words that have been being put in this thread. Where did I say that premades were bad? I never did. I wanted to know why people think they are bad. Learn to read.

[V-Serp]

Wrong again. I wasn't whining. I wanted to know why people are complaining. As I've said constantly in this thread. I've also said in this thread the same thing as this guy. Premades are good. If people don't want to face premades, then don't pvp because group play will always be part of mmo games. You just seem to be unable to understand the words that have been being put in this thread. Where did I say that premades were bad? I never did. I wanted to know why people think they are bad. Learn to read.

 

Learn logic.

 

You don't want to separate premades from solos. You demand they be put in the same queue because "premades are good."

 

You whine that without solo PUGs to beat up on, the queues are too long for premades. You admit playing against premades is very rare, as evidenced by the long queue excuse, thus the reason you don't want to fight premades. You then claim the reason you premade is to fight other premades. Yet illogically, you continue to insist you don't want to face solo PUGs, you don't want to separate the queues, and your goal is to play other premades.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[teambff]

Wrong again. I wasn't whining. I wanted to know why people are complaining. As I've said constantly in this thread. I've also said in this thread the same thing as this guy. Premades are good. If people don't want to face premades, then don't pvp because group play will always be part of mmo games. You just seem to be unable to understand the words that have been being put in this thread. Where did I say that premades were bad? I never did. I wanted to know why people think they are bad. Learn to read.

 

pug is group play, it's just not the group play that you and other premade players want, and so you try to make it your own and then combat the pug players for not wanting your kind.

if you want to know why people are complaining, read the countless threads on the topic.

 

all pug players want is for the premades to go off and fight other premades and leave pugs alone, they ruin everything, they're a plague.

 

then they say, "form premades then", or "don't pvp".. why does it never come into their mind that , or you could respect puglife and play in it's style... you seriously can't be away from some fake friends you added to a virtual list to the point you must be attached to each other at all times? ahahaha.

 

pugs have been around long before this game and pugs have always been seperate from the clans/guilds.

pugs don't want clans/guilds in the pugs.

 

kindly take your "friends", and go off and fight each other or do whatever is you do.

 

just because puggers don't cling to some virtual friend list doesn't mean it's not group play, we're in a group and we're playing. it's just we want what pugs offer, a more relaxed, random... fun environment.. to play in.

 

it's pickup games on the playgrounds vs professional sports.

 

me, for example.. i don't even consider professional sports a real version of the game... such as american football... that's not the football i know and love. same with video games, i'm a lifelong pugger and will continue to be.. cuz that's what i think represents the purity of what i find gaming to be about.

(same as pick up games on the playground).

 

i view premades/non puggers as the elitist/professionals, and as the enemy of the pure game, or true spirit of the game.. i feel like they have ruined countless gaming environments/experiences across a number of games and feel like they hide behind a bunch of lies with their whole "we want challenge" , "we just joke around and don't even try", and on and on.

 

if we're going to play lazer tag, we just want a fun pick up game that's not all serious and full of elitism and crap.. not the kind who brings military esque gear to the lazer tag, with voice coms, and maps of the layout, and strategy they worked out in their moms basement for the past week, and the absolutely latest lazer tag tech, lmao. turning into some serious business, crapfest, the complete antithesis of what pick up groups are all about.

 

"dude, we just want to play some simple fun lazer tag"

 

so, there... you have your explanation.

 

(ps, if you truly are just a group of laid back pugger friends who aren't about turning it into serious business and all of that crap that the elitist premaders bring, then most likely it's not about you. but unfortunately you will have to be lumped into the same category as them, because to let you que as a premade as letting them que as a premade.. so, you see... it's a necessary evil to lump those groups into the same category as the elitist premade plague) because they will always exploit every system, use every advantage. just the nature of the beas. blame them if you want someone to blame. not every premade player is like that, i understand.

Edited April 21, 2012 by teambff

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

Learn logic.

 

You don't want to separate premades from solos. You demand they be put in the same queue because "premades are good."

 

You whine that without solo PUGs to beat up on, the queues are too long for premades. You admit playing against premades is very rare, as evidenced by the long queue excuse, thus the reason you don't want to fight premades. You then claim the reason you premade is to fight other premades. Yet illogically, you continue to insist you don't want to face solo PUGs, you don't want to separate the queues, and your goal is to play other premades.

 

Wrong yet again, so I`ll have to explain it as if to a four year old, because this is getting old.

 

First: I encourage pvp premades because it encourages group play. Not to beat on pugs. Not to face other premades, but to encourage playing with friends.

 

Second: I did suggest that having a separate que for premades would be wise WHEN CROSS SERVER PVP comes in, but until then, it is pointless because it would severely extend que times.

 

Third: I am fine with facing solo pugs. I never said otherwise.

 

Fourth: I never stated going against premade is rare. Not once, if you can find it , quote it in full.

 

Fifth: Even if i que solo and not in a premade, which is quite often, and go against premade groups, I, like a good player, use the chat system for more than just QQ-ing about premade groups and criticizing other players. I try to work as a team to beat a team game.

 

Sixth: If people do not like to go premade or communicate with their team, then maybe a team based game isn`t for them. And I mention communication because from what I can tell, while premade groups may have an advantage using vent or some other instant communication system, it is nothing that teamwork and planning through the chat systems in the game can not fix.

 

There. As basic as it gets. If you still do not understand then I pray you are one of the mindless masses who cancelled their subscription and only come on the forum to ***** and complain about the game not being super easy for scrubs such as yourself.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Notannos

[vonklaun]

What kind of partial brain-death must have happened to a person who, for the life of them, can't figure out/guess the reasons some people dislike premades? Let's see, putting on my CSI hat here for a sec...

 

1) Premades probably beat PUGS 8 times out of ten, ergo- if you aren't in a guild that pvps very much frequency-wise (or just sucks at pvp) you may PUG most of the time. So- if most of the time you solo into PUGS- you lose to premades a LOT- depending on the frequency in which you queue with premade groups. And for many people, they simply don't want to leave their friends in the guilds they're in to go find a solid pvp guild. So a person in this situation is likely to piss and moan about premades. (I had to wait for the results from a partial-DNA test from the boys at Quantico on that one!)

 

2) On some servers (like Bastion server, for example) premades on one faction side (like pubs on Bastion) DOMINATE warzones for several hours at a time, and sometimes for 6-7 hours or longer. Meaning, unless you are in a guild with both 1) peeps online to group pvp with, ~and~ 2) good, geared players- you can lose 12+ WZs in a row. After someone loses WZ after WZ like that, they can start to b1t@h and whine about premades.

 

Ok, now that I've solved an enigma that only Arthur Conan Doyle could have conceived of- I'll say that I am not against premades. I do understand, however, why people get pissed about them. And let me drive home the huge factor that the conditions on your server represent. If you play on a populous server with more balance and lots of groups on both sides doing effective premades- then it's not such a big deal to people.

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

we're in a group and we're playing. it's just we want what pugs offer, a more relaxed, random... fun environment.. to play in.

 

it's pickup games on the playgrounds vs professional sports.

 

You finally explained what so many others could not do coherently. Thank you.

My criticism of this though is that at the moment, without cross server pvp, it would take too long to que. Once that is implemented though, by all means. Make infinite ques for multiple game styles for all it matters. Frankly I just want an arena system put in.

[Dark_Lord_Nataku]

What kind of partial brain-death must have happened to a person who, for the life of them, can't figure out/guess the reasons some people dislike premades? Let's see, putting on my CSI hat here for a sec...

 

1) Premades probably beat PUGS 8 times out of ten, ergo- if you aren't in a guild that pvps very much frequency-wise (or just sucks at pvp) you may PUG most of the time. So- if most of the time you solo into PUGS- you lose to premades a LOT- depending on the frequency in which you queue with premade groups. And for many people, they simply don't want to leave their friends in the guilds they're in to go find a solid pvp guild. So a person in this situation is likely to piss and moan about premades. (I had to wait for the results from a partial-DNA test from the boys at Quantico on that one!)

 

2) On some servers (like Bastion server, for example) premades on one faction side (like pubs on Bastion) DOMINATE warzones for several hours at a time, and sometimes for 6-7 hours or longer. Meaning, unless you are in a guild with both 1) peeps online to group pvp with, ~and~ 2) good, geared players- you can lose 12+ WZs in a row. After someone loses WZ after WZ like that, they can start to b1t@h and whine about premades.

 

Ok, now that I've solved an enigma that only Arthur Conan Doyle could have conceived of- I'll say that I am not against premades. I do understand, however, why people get pissed about them. And let me drive home the huge factor that the conditions on your server represent. If you play on a populous server with more balance and lots of groups on both sides doing effective premades- then it's not such a big deal to people.

 

1.) A stat you pulled out of your ***, as I`ve been in groups that were pug and beat premade. But moving on...

 

2.) Did you ever think, before insulting my mental condition, that I was not on a server where this occurs? Not to say that premades don't occur, but that the players who I communicate with through the chat system are competent enough to figure out how to counter whatever obvious strategy is being implied. If people use the chat system and know what objectives require attention, the game goes much smoother than you'd think. Now since you mentioned this at the end, thank you for thinking about how I should be considerate of other people's experience on their server. Be sure to practice what you preach next time though.