Frankenseuss Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Not a QQ, not a whine, just an expression of my own opinion. Marauders and Sentinels were not buffed, they always were (and still are) a class that has several abilities and require perfect execution to be really good with. In the hands of a player who knows his class, yes he will tear you to shreds, but every class has a counter class. Example, in WoW a warlock's worst nightmare is a rogue. My recommendation to you is this, read up on your class. Learn every ability and its ups and downs, what moves should you use against this class, and which ones you shouldn't use. I play a scrapper and a MM sniper, so let's just say I'm on my sniper. There is never a reason for me to use knockbacks against ranged classes, waste of a GCD and a waste of energy. Marauders on the other hand, if I play it smart, and keep him as far away as possible, I'll rip through most marauders (the only ones I can't beat are the ones who are really good players and learned to counter my class). Marauders hit hard but they are not invincible. That being said, people need to stop crying out for nerfs, because many of those same people would never be seen on the forums if their class was the one people want nerfed. To sum everything up, Don't call for nerfs, just learn your class and learn how to counter other classes. Being a good player takes time and effort, and if you're not willing to work for it, or put forth the effort, then it is not your place to point the finger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Balance should be centered solely on PVE content, tweaking abilities and cooldowns and stats for pvp is just bad decision making all around. PVP will balance itself out as players learn to utilize their full repertoire of abilities and the gear gap is eliminated with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinak Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Balance should be centered solely on PVE content, tweaking abilities and cooldowns and stats for pvp is just bad decision making all around. PVP will balance itself out as players learn to utilize their full repertoire of abilities and the gear gap is eliminated with time. you can't balance a game around half the content. balance was simply better pre 1.2 however. The Devs need to learn to balance classes by making small tweak over time rather than the hack and slash approach they seem to be making now. Edited April 20, 2012 by Vinak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankenseuss Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Balance should be centered solely on PVE content, tweaking abilities and cooldowns and stats for pvp is just bad decision making all around. PVP will balance itself out as players learn to utilize their full repertoire of abilities and the gear gap is eliminated with time. Exactly! see you get it too! when players just put forth a little effort to learn their moves and utilize them properly, they'll find out that suddenly their class ain't so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olio Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Balance should be centered solely on PVE content, tweaking abilities and cooldowns and stats for pvp is just bad decision making all around. PVP will balance itself out as players learn to utilize their full repertoire of abilities and the gear gap is eliminated with time. ^^^^ I thought PVP was more balanced at launch of game to be honest. Everything is situational. But people do not understand that. They think there class should be the best at beating every class. Some do no understand there class is mainly support role, or tank role or dps role or healing role. Your not a jack of all trades and master of all. But as soon as someone dies to another class 1 vs 1, they come on the forums, complain. And in true MMO fashion the Dev's do not look at stats, instead they balance the game by who cries the most. Unfortunately the ones who cry the most are the ones who did not spend the time to learn the mechanics of there class and just come to the forums instead and complain. Oh well, whatever they throw at me I'll adapt and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sure would help a lot if BW would release PvP updates in baby steps rather than extreme overhauls that throw everything out of balance. Small incremental tweaks over time would go a long way in reducing some of the broad swings in balance that we've seen since 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biogood Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 In the end, every class QQ comment boils down to this ancient old saying: "Dear game devs, rocks are overpowered, please nerf them! Paper is fine the way it is." - Scissors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenparrchi Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 In the hands of a player who knows his class, yes he will tear you to shreds, but every class has a counter class. Example, in WoW a warlock's worst nightmare is a rogue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWeWMKfa3g Your argument is pure nonsense. I've never believed in the whole counter class argument considering there's more variables than just class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biogood Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWeWMKfa3g Your argument is pure nonsense. I've never believed in the whole counter class argument considering there's more variables than just class. Did you really just post a 6 year old video (with out-dated mechanics) in an attempt to prove a point? Seriously? Edited April 20, 2012 by Biogood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faeldawn Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) SWTOR seems to be suffering from Warhammer syndrome....badly. They seem to be listening to a select group of opinions and making terrible class balance decisions based on their input....this is what happened in Warhammer, it was a large part of what destroyed the game. Nerf, buff, nerf, buff....players couldn't know from one patch to the next if their favourite class would be stupidly overpowered or completely gimped and useless. This will damage SWTOR eventually, there is no way players can keep up when their class is fine one patch, nerfed into oblivion the next and forced to wait for the next overbuff or reroll. The lack of server transfers and merges clearly shows Bioware are quite happy to keep player rerolling, Legacy is all geared as a time sink to encourage players to roll alt after alt. It's worse though, they screwed pvp in 1.2, why did they not realise the consequences of their actions? It's simple, they listen to hardcore pvp opinions (players, forum whiners and devs), the kind who play premades, the kind who crave rated warzones, the kind who believe losing should = zero reward possibly because they invariably win. The removal of Ilum, the removal of dailys, the screwing of healing, the speed changes the expertise change has created and now an admission they got it wrong and a backtrack on WZ rewards.....wonder how many accounts had to cancel or players stop pvping before this occurred? Im guessing numbers talk here. What does it all mean? Simple really, Bioware have lost the plot with the pvp aspect of their game (Warhammer all over again), they have no idea how to fix pvp (many of the nerfs and buffs and lack of nerfs and buffs make no sense), no idea how to recover from the ilum fiasco, out of control CC, failed to produce the rated warzones which will inevitably kill the pvp aspect of the game for 90% of the playerbase (seriously, it's like a pvp operation, geared guild groups progress, the rest can suck on it and imagine what it's like instead of being able to participate or compete), no idea how to balance the classes and seem to be stuck in a cycle of warzone, commendations, gear, warzones, commendations, gear...players don't know what the next patch will bring, how badly their class will get nerfed, or buffed. It's not very inspiring for a game thats only a few months old. Hadn't intended on a full on rant, but im incredibly disillusioned with SWTOR's pvp now, while im loving the Rakghoul event. Im not interrested in pvping anymore and probably wont for a while, maybe never again, this coming from someone who pre 1.2 played at least 3-4 WZ's every day, often more and loved it. In a few months for pvp it'll be GW2, SWTOR can't compete if they make changes like they are currently and with no subs fee and a long overdue 3 "faction" open world pvp i simply don't see SWTOR retaining much of it's pvp playerbase. Edited April 20, 2012 by Faeldawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocherel Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Did you really just post a 6 year old video (with out-dated mechanics) in an attempt to prove a point? Seriously? LOL, that video is still hilarious no matter how old it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 OP: OK guys, I know BW nerfed all your classes into the ground, but I play a marauder- so now that I'm top dog by a significant margin, asking for nerfs is bad. Nice try OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suutrar Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 There is an amazing amount of truth in this thread for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmorte Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 There's a lot of things people can't account for that make it seem unbalanced as well. Take latency for example. Compare force push attacks to pull attacks. Latency has no effect whatsoever on pull attacks as to where the opponent will end up. Compare that mechanic to push attacks, where latency makes a huge factor in where the opponent will end up. This makes a huge difference in huttball where a well placed push/pull can make the difference between a win or a loss. Now factor in the increased elemental damage from the fire traps/acid pits that BW so brilliantly went overboard on and tell me how that is balanced. I don't have a high latency or I wouldn't even consider this a flaw. I run 50-65ms consistently which should have zero impact in the execution of my abilities, yet there has been countless times where I try to force push an oppenent in one direction only to see them fly off at a 90 degree angle without having hit any obstacles. It's things like this and the ridiculous overkill changes which has caused over 1 million subscribers to leave in the past month. Let me say that again. One MILLION subscribers have cancelled in the last 30 days. For a game that had so much potential, it seems SWTOR is going down the same path as Age of Conan. Good luck Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenparrchi Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Did you really just post a 6 year old video (with out-dated mechanics) in an attempt to prove a point? Seriously? Yes, because nothing has changed no matter what game you play. After a "rebalancing" there is always some class that becomes the new top dog. Those players then always point to this notion of rock, paper, scissors to justify why they should be that strong against some other class. Right now that class is marauders/sentinels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Not a QQ, not a whine, just an expression of my own opinion. Marauders and Sentinels were not buffed, they always were (and still are) a class that has several abilities and require perfect execution to be really good with. In the hands of a player who knows his class, yes he will tear you to shreds, but every class has a counter class. Example, in WoW a warlock's worst nightmare is a rogue. My recommendation to you is this, read up on your class. Learn every ability and its ups and downs, what moves should you use against this class, and which ones you shouldn't use. I play a scrapper and a MM sniper, so let's just say I'm on my sniper. There is never a reason for me to use knockbacks against ranged classes, waste of a GCD and a waste of energy. Marauders on the other hand, if I play it smart, and keep him as far away as possible, I'll rip through most marauders (the only ones I can't beat are the ones who are really good players and learned to counter my class). Marauders hit hard but they are not invincible. That being said, people need to stop crying out for nerfs, because many of those same people would never be seen on the forums if their class was the one people want nerfed. To sum everything up, Don't call for nerfs, just learn your class and learn how to counter other classes. Being a good player takes time and effort, and if you're not willing to work for it, or put forth the effort, then it is not your place to point the finger. I play a jugg and i can tell u why maras are overpowered.. They gave us a new "defensive cd" It heals 3% per sec for 10 sec with 1 min cd, BUT enemy attacks have 1.5 sec global cd, so we never ever gonna get healed 2 times within 2 secs... Tested... Also it needs 4 rage to activate, and each time u get healed by it, u lose 1 rage, making u unable to dps when u use it... Now, if u add a vengeance talent, it gives the spell 15% dmg reduction for 10 sec, that makes it a bit ok. And here goes maras... they have cloak of pain that does 20% dmg reduction (5% more than jugg) same cd 1 min only, lasts up to 30 sec, as long as u get hit once every 6 sec and deals some small dmg back to enemy... Additionaly, it doesnt need ANYTHING to activate it.. unlike jugg's that need 4+ 1 rage per sec for 10 sec, 14 Rage point total !! About force scream, was 1 of the highest dps abilities on vengeance tree and still does dmg 2nd only to ravage after 1.2 . Jugg talent gives it +60% crit chance.. And there goes mara again, with his carnage spec, that force scream isnt the main dps ability on it. Yet they get +100% crit on it, and they have talent to give it +30% crit dmg extra... Also a skill that ignores 100% of enemy armor for 6 sec, which makes ravage super effective on them... About rage, no need to say much, they have exactly the same after 1.2 but more effective cause of their insane defensive cds... And anni, which is by far the best...as soon as u apply dots on enemy, its like putting timer on him...He needs to kill u faster than the dots kill him...But how to kill faster something that has : 1) stealth for 4 sec 2) 99% reduction for 6 sec 3) -90% accurancy debuff for 6 sec 4) 20% dmg reduction for up to 30 sec 5) 30% permanent aoe dmg reduction through talent (hf smashing and deathfield) Good luck with that... Also if u are a healer , add the healing reduce debuff and then hf surviving... I sadly have juggernaut main. And if i spec dps, rage or vengeance, i feel like a heavily nerfed marauder... If i chose to tank as jugg for pvp, i feel like a useless tank compared to powertechs and assassins... So...*** u talking about balance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Did you really just post a 6 year old video (with out-dated mechanics) in an attempt to prove a point? Seriously? The truth, my friend, never gets old, only the labels change. That said swtor beats wow 9000:0 if it comes to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iiell Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I have seen every class in this game shine behind the right player with the right spec... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I play a jugg and i can tell u why maras are overpowered.. They gave us a new "defensive cd" It heals 3% per sec for 10 sec with 1 min cd, BUT enemy attacks have 1.5 sec global cd, so we never ever gonna get healed 2 times within 2 secs... Tested... Also it needs 4 rage to activate, and each time u get healed by it, u lose 1 rage, making u unable to dps when u use it... Now, if u add a vengeance talent, it gives the spell 15% dmg reduction for 10 sec, that makes it a bit ok. And here goes maras... they have cloak of pain that does 20% dmg reduction (5% more than jugg) same cd 1 min only, lasts up to 30 sec, as long as u get hit once every 6 sec and deals some small dmg back to enemy... Additionaly, it doesnt need ANYTHING to activate it.. unlike jugg's that need 4+ 1 rage per sec for 10 sec, 14 Rage point total !! About force scream, was 1 of the highest dps abilities on vengeance tree and still does dmg 2nd only to ravage after 1.2 . Jugg talent gives it +60% crit chance.. And there goes mara again, with his carnage spec, that force scream isnt the main dps ability on it. Yet they get +100% crit on it, and they have talent to give it +30% crit dmg extra... Also a skill that ignores 100% of enemy armor for 6 sec, which makes ravage super effective on them... About rage, no need to say much, they have exactly the same after 1.2 but more effective cause of their insane defensive cds... And anni, which is by far the best...as soon as u apply dots on enemy, its like putting timer on him...He needs to kill u faster than the dots kill him...But how to kill faster something that has : 1) stealth for 4 sec 2) 99% reduction for 6 sec 3) -90% accurancy debuff for 6 sec 4) 20% dmg reduction for up to 30 sec 5) 30% permanent aoe dmg reduction through talent (hf smashing and deathfield) Good luck with that... Also if u are a healer , add the healing reduce debuff and then hf surviving... I sadly have juggernaut main. And if i spec dps, rage or vengeance, i feel like a heavily nerfed marauder... If i chose to tank as jugg for pvp, i feel like a useless tank compared to powertechs and assassins... So...*** u talking about balance... So your whole gripe is that a class that has 3 DPS trees does more damage than the tank. Oh ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 So your whole gripe is that a class that has 3 DPS trees does more damage than the tank. Oh ok I was comparing dps specs with dps specs... If jugg is only tank, then Mercenary is healer class only Assassin is tank class only Sorcerer is healing class only Operative is healing class only Powertech is tank class only, And since none of the above are dps class like maras and snipers. none of them will do as much dmg as a sniper or mara... This is what u are trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therouterninja Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 So your whole gripe is that a class that has 3 DPS trees does more damage than the tank. Oh ok He's certainly griping a bit, but I do agree with his sentiment that guardians don't really excel at anything. They do less damage than any other class, and general consensus is that they're worst of all the tank options. In pvp, the job of a good guardian is to basically die as slow as possible in a warzone. Marauders have escape options, and way better survival cooldowns which make them better at mitigating damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) The truth, my friend, never gets old, only the labels change. That said swtor beats wow 9000:0 if it comes to balance. If you honestly think this is true you must not have played WoW for the same 6 years. When I get too frustrated with the PvP in this game I go do some BGs on 85s (I still have my WoW accounts). Even though my toons are a bit out of date I'm able to do fine and tear up bad players that are in much better gear. I have 11 85s and have been playing since release. I have pretty much one of everything and while all games have imbalances, and WoW has had some big ones right after expansions, I've never seen anything like the current stat of PvP in SWTOR. Not to mention 10/15/40 character BGs with no lag and an average queue time of 2 mins in WoW. I really want this game to succeed but I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with each patch. They need to make small incremental changes and focus on sever merges and cross server queues, at least for PvP. I switched to Republic to get away from same faction WZ and everlasting Huttball games. Now, outnumbered 3:1 Imperial to Republic, on my server I get a good portion of same faction matches on my Republic toons, go figure. Edited April 20, 2012 by Erasimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Solid proof that mara is way overpower compared to juggs. Rage spec is common between jugg and mara . BUT Mara has defensive cds that jugg doesnt. And the more important Jugg has only rage mechanic, Mara has the same rage , PLUS Fury.... Why someone choose jugg to play rage while mara can have exactly the same talent, but get benefit of FURY mechanic too?? And the insane survivability? Its obvious that Bioware says : You want max dps as rage ? roll mara You wanna survive more than tanks in tank gear? roll mara You wanna do Max dmg without losing a single bit of your survivability? roll mara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iiell Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I've never seen anything like the current stat of PvP in SWTOR. You must not remember my level 45 Rogue 1 shotting your level 60 clothies with a blue dagger! Widowmaker and Vanilla WOW FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazze Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 complian enough bioware shall see it done !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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