Slowmojo Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Alot of MMORPGs are milking their customers by forcing them to play over a long period to start being/stay competitive. Daily quests and commendations they bring require you to do the same quests over and over again. Until finally after completing the same quests 12 days, you can purchase a single item. Content is streched by lockouts, once per week raids, once per day instances, etc. PvP is the most annoying part of this all, forced to grind to be able to compete properly. Trying to prevent their players from burning out on the content to fast by adding limitations such as lockouts. Forcing these limitations instead of improving content, making it more dynamic and interesting. I really love MMORPGs, being able to have your own community through guilds and servers. Grouping up with friends and enjoying your day kicking ***. But I've become a casual player, and all i want to do is get online when i can and enjoy some healthy competition between players. And unfortunatly thats a luxury only available to people who have more time on their hands. It gets incredibly frustrating when you outplay a person or a team, just to lose or get killed because of the gear difference. Wether you like it or not, this game is very similar to wow on the majority of aspects. Although lacking in features. These things were acceptable when MMOs were still in the early stages of development, but this doesn't seem to be the case anymore. With the number of MMO gamers rising, the demand for enjoyable content goes up. It seems Guild Wars is a great example to taking a step in the right direction. An MMO without a monthly fee manages to keep its PvP unspoiled by time. And people who spend their efforts in PvP are rewarded through competition, the reason PvP exists. Matchmaking systems for servers. Events are dynamic and are based on your efforts, you can go anywhere and succeed at any time if you do it correctly. When i saw the Bolster effect for the first time in SWTOR PvP i was excited. I tought "finally a system that balances everyone to the same level in PvP? AWESOME!", but ohboy, was i wrong... In PvP people need to feel rewarded for their time. And so the developers gives you what you wish for. However the system is flawed and the design for distribution of PvP gear causes terrible inbalance. Why not just make rewards cosmetics and consumables? This way people who want to be rewarded get what they want and people who want to just enjoy the competitive nature of PvP are also pleased. There are 2 reasons why people go through with the ******** you give them. Feeding their e-peen by showing off how "good" they are with gear. People who use the gear so they don't have to worry about being disadvantaged by it. Don't cosmetic rewards give both parties what they want while keeping the competitive nature of PvP unspoiled by gear imbalance? Different armor or just colors and additions to existing armor are enough to ensure everyone is happy, no? I'm sure i'l get flamed by this "WAAA! gear is already so easy to get its like all welfare. I WANTZ MAI EPEENZ!" or "If you don't like it, leave!" I didn't say gear should be easy to get, but in its current state its based on time spent instead of effort. I'm aware that some of the systems have been adressed, such as as the PvP Bag joke. But i'd like to see more changes inspired to pleasing their customers instead of milking them. I just needed to get that off my chest. Feel free to vent your frustration against me in this thread. TL;DR Current state: Time = Money Time = Reward Should be: Effort = Reward PvP = Competition Time = Experience = Knowledge. Edited May 1, 2012 by Notannos language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Guild Wars is Pay to Win. That is NOT the right direction. A $15 sub works out to $.50 a day. That is great entertainment value if you enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanshan Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 $0.5 is great per day, almost 24/7 access with random down time. That rounds about to $0.0208333 per hour to play. Micro trans action games end up costing more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasse_B Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I'd prefer the Guild Wars payment model (financing the game by selling addons for money) as well, but when having to choose between F2P and P2P, my money is on the latter. Edited April 20, 2012 by Lasse_B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Subscription fees of MMOs are the cheapest form of entertainment if you count by the hour. It is an all-you-can-eat buffet for the entire month. Before you even go into MMO fees, you should look at the really expensive single games that do not give as much replay value. The only legitimate complaint about monthly fees is if it does not give you new content in a timely manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Alot of MMORPGs are milking their customers by forcing them to play over a long period to start being/stay competitive. Daily quests and commendations they bring require you to do the same quests over and over again. Until finally after completing the same quests 12 days, you can purchase a single item. Content is streched by lockouts, once per week raids, once per day instances, etc. PvP is the most annoying part of this all, forced to grind to be able to compete properly. Trying to prevent their players from burning out on the content to fast by adding limitations such as lockouts. Forcing these limitations instead of improving content, making it more dynamic and interesting. I really love MMORPGs, being able to have your own community through guilds and servers. Grouping up with friends and enjoying your day kicking ***. But I've become a casual player, and all i want to do is get online when i can and enjoy some healthy competition between players. And unfortunatly thats a luxury only available to people who have more time on their hands. It gets incredibly frustrating when you outplay a person or a team, just to lose or get killed because of the gear difference. Wether you like it or not, this game is very similar to wow on the majority of aspects. Although lacking in features. These things were acceptable when MMOs were still in the early stages of development, but this doesn't seem to be the case anymore. With the number of MMO gamers rising, the demand for enjoyable content goes up. It seems Guild Wars is a great example to taking a step in the right direction. An MMO without a monthly fee manages to keep its PvP unspoiled by time. And people who spend their efforts in PvP are rewarded through competition, the reason PvP exists. Matchmaking systems for servers. Events are dynamic and are based on your efforts, you can go anywhere and succeed at any time if you do it correctly. When i saw the Bolster effect for the first time in SWTOR PvP i was excited. I tought "finally a system that balances everyone to the same level in PvP? AWESOME!", but ohboy, was i wrong... In PvP people need to feel rewarded for their time. And so the developers gives you what you wish for. However the system is flawed and the design for distribution of PvP gear causes terrible inbalance. Why not just make rewards cosmetics and consumables? This way people who want to be rewarded get what they want and people who want to just enjoy the competitive nature of PvP are also pleased. There are 2 reasons why people go through with the ******** you give them. Feeding their e-peen by showing off how "good" they are with gear. People who use the gear so they don't have to worry about being disadvantaged by it. Don't cosmetic rewards give both parties what they want while keeping the competitive nature of PvP unspoiled by gear imbalance? Different armor or just colors and additions to existing armor are enough to ensure everyone is happy, no? I'm sure i'l get flamed by this "WAAA! gear is already so easy to get its like all welfare. I WANTZ MAI EPEENZ!" or "If you don't like it, leave!" I didn't say gear should be easy to get, but in its current state its based on time spent instead of effort. I'm aware that some of the systems have been adressed, such as as the PvP Bag joke. But i'd like to see more changes inspired to pleasing their customers instead of milking them. I just needed to get that off my chest. Feel free to vent your frustration against me in this thread. TL;DR Current state: Time = Money Time = Reward Should be: Effort = Reward PvP = Competition Time = Experience = Knowledge. P2P MMOs are always higher quality. P2P/F2P Hybrid happen to do very well as well while F2P is never F2P because you'll always have to pay for something to progress so they are always going to get money out of you anyway. Edited May 1, 2012 by Notannos language-quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marak Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Subscription fees of MMOs are the cheapest form of entertainment if you count by the hour. It is an all-you-can-eat buffet for the entire month. Before you even go into MMO fees, you should look at the really expensive single games that do not give as much replay value. The only legitimate complaint about monthly fees is if it does not give you new content in a timely manner. This is why I quit buying console games. I got tired of 5-6 hour playthroughs for $60. It's like the cost of the movies and that's just a bad value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Lets see Take my wife to the movies, $15 minimum for tickets ( usually more ) popcorn, drinks, maybe a real drink afterwards on the way home to talk about it, 2-3 hours entertainment at least $40 usually more Swtor, untold hours ( sometimes too many hours ) playing alone, and often with my wife playing as well, and not just playing time, but our talking about what we would like to do and see in the game. $30 a month ( 2 accounts ) best entertainment value I know of Do us a favor Bioware, raise the price to $25 a month and never ever go FTP or microtransactions, we would gladly pay that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) This is why I quit buying console games. I got tired of 5-6 hour playthroughs for $60. It's like the cost of the movies and that's just a bad value. NCAA Football in July!!!!! Gotta have a console! Edited April 20, 2012 by TheBBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Enjoy LotRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 You play casually, it shouldn't matter to you whether someone plays non stop to get all their top gear within a month, because you will still have to clock in the same hours ... casually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Lets see Take my wife to the movies, $15 minimum for tickets ( usually more ) popcorn, drinks, maybe a real drink afterwards on the way home to talk about it, 2-3 hours entertainment at least $40 usually more Swtor, untold hours ( sometimes too many hours ) playing alone, and often with my wife playing as well, and not just playing time, but our talking about what we would like to do and see in the game. $30 a month ( 2 accounts ) best entertainment value I know of Do us a favor Bioware, raise the price to $25 a month and never ever go FTP or microtransactions, we would gladly pay that. Considering that I'm paying the same for a sub as I did 11 years ago on mir, it's amazing value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 This is why I quit buying console games. I got tired of 5-6 hour playthroughs for $60. It's like the cost of the movies and that's just a bad value. Same here, $60 is just not worth it for most console games, MMO's are a much better value for the amount of entertainment I get from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 You can buy games if they are heavily discounted on Steam. Single player games are not good value if you calculate by the hour, but you cannot deny that some of them are really high quality. Take Skyrim or Deus Ex: Human Revolution for instance. Seriously high quality games, if not something you can play forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) i never liked the lockout BS mmos have used to draw out the content. call me crazy, but i would like the ability to run a dungeon/raid 24/7 if i wanted to. i enjoy grinding. i thought star wars would get away from the lockout model and go back to the old days of mmos where if you wanted to gear up in a day or 2 by grinding 24/7 you could. the lockouts were one of the reasons i quit wow, in the end it got too rediculous. in pvp you used valor points to buy gear that capped after a certain amount. it took 3 weeks of capping (which only took 20 minutes at most) to buy your weapon. the more i play this game after this last patch, the more i see im not having fun. im giving the devs a week or 2 to fix what they have broke ( the bad design decisions they made with my main- seriously arsenal BH sucks now- NOT FUN AT ALL). i cant wait for guild wars. hopefully they dont make these mistakes, but i know they will. Edited April 20, 2012 by Sireene use of retarded - PM'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolyartNala Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Guild Wars is Pay to Win. That is NOT the right direction. A $15 sub works out to $.50 a day. That is great entertainment value if you enjoy the game.This. It annoys me that gamers aren't willing to cough up $0.50/day to play a game they like. What else can you buy for fifty cents these days? 24 hours of gaming is the only thing I can think of; certainly not a cup of coffee or a candy bar. Think about that, all of you whining about monthly subs---how much do you spend on Starbucks each month? Beer? Food? For what you pay for your morning latte, you could play SWTOR for a week. Also, think on this. F2P games are a money mill, because makers of those games know that you're willing to pony up 10 bucks for a mount and 5 bucks for a new hairdo, or whatever. You think you're playing for free, but in reality you're paying more. TL;DR: F2P is a cash cow, and you're the cow being milked for cash. Sub-based games are a comparative bargain, and more importantly, are ad- & cash shop-free. TL;DR 2: If something is free on the internet, you're not the customer. You're the product. Edited April 20, 2012 by RolyartNala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notebene Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Alot of MMORPGs are milking their customers by forcing them to play... I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 If you play this game daily, you get MORE than your 50 cents a day's worth. Also, since the only other option is presently a cash store where you'll end up paying just as much or more, I'd much rather stick to the $15 a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekell Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Lets see Take my wife to the movies, $15 minimum for tickets ( usually more ) popcorn, drinks, maybe a real drink afterwards on the way home to talk about it, 2-3 hours entertainment at least $40 usually more Swtor, untold hours ( sometimes too many hours ) playing alone, and often with my wife playing as well, and not just playing time, but our talking about what we would like to do and see in the game. $30 a month ( 2 accounts ) best entertainment value I know of Do us a favor Bioware, raise the price to $25 a month and never ever go FTP or microtransactions, we would gladly pay that. Dude, SHUT UP don't let them know that keep it at $15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenyr Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Alot of MMORPGs are milking their customers by forcing them to play over a long period to start being/stay competitive. . Who's forcing who? I dont feel been forced to play this game or any other mmorpg with fee out there, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Dude, SHUT UP don't let them know that keep it at $15. LOL well I am just saying I would rather them do that, then how fast a game goes downhill after it goes F2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esquire Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I had a recent decent chance to learn, 1st hand, what the differences exactly are between F2P and P2P MMOs when STO went F2P. In PVP, after a year of balance passes (post launch), they had a decent PVP balance (about as well as can be done before F2P) but a very small playerbase. Then came F2P. 1st thing, was basicly an NGE to re-design the game for a F2P model. Crafting went completly out the window as that system did not generate revenue. And in F2P, if it can't get you dollars, get rid of that system or just let it die on the vine. You talk about "grinds"? The NGE type CHANGES made to the in-game economy either a very long term grind (probably 5 times the lenght here) or hit the C-store with your credit card. Grinds seemed to be discouraged in your OP. The rates in the C-store went way, WAY, up. Everything cost more after a F2P model. Then, came the chance of a chance type of development, (spend money for just a chance to get the item your looking for) such as unlockable boxes with "keys" purchased from the C-store. (I didn't play TCG in SWG for the exact same reasoning, I opened the free packs but NEVER bought a pack). If I want to gamble, I'll head for Vegas. It was then decided, by Cryptic, that no1 bought enough "fluff" so P2W was introduced in a large manner. Over Powered consoles, ships, etc etc etc were introduced into the C-store, 1 after another, even multipals per/month. PVP balance was the next casualty of ingame systems. PVP gameplay participation lowered by over 50% as players realised that if they wanted to excel in PVP, then money spent in the store, not how well you could push buttons, not how well you understood the combat system, not this great build you had before, and not simple hand/eye coordination was the key to winning. If a build/ship/weapon/etc could actualy compete without spending at the store, it was very quickly NERFed into oblivian. The playerbase did go up, by a small amount (not the amount that Cryptic touted at the start of all this) but quickly droped back down after the F2P players found exactly what they had to do. (those very long grinds or get out their credit card). Matter of months. But the end result was any1 who actualy liked the game or stayed for the IP had to conform to the C-store F2P/P2W model if they had a subscription or not. So, some payed 15 per/month and then payed the C-store stuff on top of that simply because it was Star Trek. Needless to say, I came to TOR because of the 15/per/month payment model and to get away from F2P and P2W and I had a "lifetime" to STO which enables me to log in anytime. I just have not logged in in months. That experience left such a bad taste that I doubt I'd ever play another F2P MMO nor buy another lifetime sub. Maybe a case of "be careful what you ask for, you might just get it" kinda deal. Edited April 20, 2012 by Esquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalcoLombardi Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Guild Wars is Pay to Win. That is NOT the right direction. A $15 sub works out to $.50 a day. That is great entertainment value if you enjoy the game. You have no idea what you're talking about. Every single microtransaction for Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 is completely cosmetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blistrich Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 If you can't afford an mmo sub, you shouldn't be playing mmos. It's that simple. I spend more than $15 each day on smokes and coffee. In fact, if a game doesn't have a sub system (F2P), I know the game is likely an under-performer. See LOTRO and DDO for flawless examples of how unpopular games shift to F2P in order to stay alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeloDaoC Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Monthly fee is the very best You get everything everyone else gets, so it doesnt matter if your rich or poor in real life, you have the same offset as everyone else You have no idea what you're talking about. Every single microtransaction for Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 is completely cosmetic no..unfortunally its not. you can get loot bags, mystery keys to unlock chests in the world, resurection stones etc. athough it wont give any stat items Edited April 20, 2012 by SeloDaoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts