Marauders your days are numbered and u know it :)

[Lilouk]

The clamoring on the forums has already begun. Marauders are in need of a HUGE nerf and you guys that play marauders know this already. Enjoy being FOTM while it lasts cause the nerf bat is coming down hard. Just like sorcs/sages before you, you guys are way to Overpowered I would say even more overpowered than sorcs were. Luckily for me I play a Shield Tech Vanguard

 

Lucky for me i had a marauder before it being FOTM so i'll deal just fine with a nerf.

[Makavelian]

I'm a pyro powertech....going toe-to-toe with a Mara, it's pretty even fight. Problem is, I get out defensed. I can burn a Mara as fast as he's burning me down, but when we start playing a defense game, he's got me beat by a mile. I can pop Energy shield (25% damage reduc for 12secs) and Kolto Overload (15% max health over 10 sec) and use a WZ Health pack if it's getting really sour. Problem is, so can he. On top of that, he can do one of several things to take me out of an otherwise even fight. He can pop Force Cloak, Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward, Undying Rage (Jesus mode), AND is able to use a GCD ignoring Retaliation, and should you try to run, they can always smack you with Vicious Throw if you're low enough.

 

The part that makes it so bad is the fact that each spec marauder has is DPS. They have extremely powerful abilities, Gore is an example with its 100% armor pen while being completely capable of shrugging off tons of damage, something you would only otherwise see from a Tank spec'd class. They have the best of both worlds, making them extremely difficult to deal with. Ranged classes cannot kite in this game, there's a gap closer for every single short-range/melee class. Mara's in specific has a counter for nearly everything in the game. You cannot lose distance, you cannot out heal, you cannot out defense, you can double team and hope for the best. The fact that it causes three people a bit of trouble to kill a Mara with all its defenses up is silly at best.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Makavelian

[Balmuck]

I actually never told anyone to "l2p" if you took the time to read what I wrote. Admittedly, it could be a reading comprehension problem as I'm also not telling anyone to use whirlwind after creeping terror; they are simply examples of superior cc when used intelligently. When I play my sentinel, do you know what I see? Sorcs who immediately hit their knockback and let me leap to them, sorcs that spam force lightning 10m from me, sorcs that stun me at range and have nothing left when I get into melee range, that never slow me outside of using force lightning; the list goes on. Whirlwind is incredibly strong as even when it breaks on damage it still stuns them for 2 seconds but yes you want to avoid using it early. If they want to burn their predation to avoid being kited, more power to them- if they are annihilation spec'd I've just potentially saved myself a lot of incoming damage. I don't doubt they'll nerf the class, I have little faith in the dev team after lolerscrewing sorc healing in pvp.

 

Whirlwind only stuns targets if their CC bar isn't full, which is extremely rare because 99% of the time, Whirlwind will in fact give them a full Resolve bar. Due to the way the CC system works, occasionally, not often, this will happen, mainly due to them using their CC break to lower their resolve, which then it would mean that your stun would activate. If you don't believe me, get on your Sage, duel someone and lift them, if it gives them full Resolve Bar, it's basically just that, nothing else. Trust me, I duel Sentinels for like 5 min straight with Chain CC from Lift, Stun, Force Wave root and Kinetic Collapse and yet rarely, do I come out on top, mainly when they make huge mistakes.

 

 

I've dueled the best Mara/Sentinels hundred of times and in perfect scenario, if we're speaking Sorc V Mara, duels, group, anything else, Mara is all in all a much better class. I'd always bring one over a Sorc, of course, this isn't talking about healing.

 

 

That issue is totally something else to talk about and I'd agree with you about the Dev team, especially since I played the closed beta for a year. What they did to Sorc/Sage healers post 1.2 is pretty atrocious and made no sense what's so ever, and of course, this is one of the main reasons why Mara or PT or any other DPS class looks so OP. They greatly increased the damage boost from Expertise, while tweaking certain classes, such as the one we're talking about, and making their DPS much more effective and streamline, while, at the same time, they basically compounded quiet a few different healing nerfs and released them all at the same time. This doesn't work and it makes the game feel much more twitched based and un-enjoyable by people who like longer combat scenarios and more tactical feel to the game.

 

 

I will say one thing again, I don't really care what they nerf or buff because I agree with you on the point that bads will be bads no matter how you look at it. but overall, Mara/Sent is by far the best DPS to bring to a fight, by far the most effective DPS and if you combine them with Power Tech, they seem to be the most populous class after 1.2. There is a reason for this and you can't really deny that you'd always pick your Sentinel over you Sage if we're talking about small scale fights where killing the opposition matters. Sorcs may have some sort off advantage in certain scenarios but in reality, even if healing, it's better to bring the other two healers then it is to bring the Sorc/Sage.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Balmuck

[nockout]

Assassin's need to be nerfed way before Mara's do. Best 1v1 class in the game + has guard, stealth, self heals, enemy player pull, plays in defensive stance so 40% + mitigation, ranged attacks, immunity to force dmg, force speed, knockback, taunts....need I go on? How people havent screamed for nerfs to tank sins is beyond me.

 

And before people say "they nerfed it so you lose stuff when you switch stances" assasins are topping dmg IN tank stance.

[polopopoo]

Assassin's need to be nerfed way before Mara's do. Best 1v1 class in the game + has guard, stealth, self heals, enemy player pull, plays in defensive stance so 40% + mitigation, ranged attacks, immunity to force dmg, force speed, knockback, taunts....need I go on? How people havent screamed for nerfs to tank sins is beyond me.

 

And before people say "they nerfed it so you lose stuff when you switch stances" assasins are topping dmg IN tank stance.

 

I think its because maras have stealth, self heals + group heal cooldown, better gap closer than a pull, 20% damage reduction on a stupid low cooldown, a ranged execute that hits harder than most ranged classes nukes, immunity to all damage buff on a low cooldown, a sprint that can be used twice in succession and have far better burst than anyother class in the game. Problem is why hasn't both AC been brought in line with the rest.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I think its because maras have stealth, self heals + group heal cooldown, better gap closer than a pull, 20% damage reduction on a stupid low cooldown, a ranged execute that hits harder than most ranged classes nukes, immunity to all damage buff on a low cooldown, a sprint that can be used twice in succession and have far better burst than anyother class in the game. Problem is why hasn't both AC been brought in line with the rest.

 

Hold on there sparky.

 

Sentinels and Marauders don't have stealth. We have a 4 second aggro dump. It isn't stealth on the same level as a Shadow, Assassin, Operative, or Scoundrel.

 

They also don't have self heals or a group heal cooldown. They have an ability that restores 2% of their health if a burn tick crits. They have a centering dependent ability that turns that into a group heal for a few seconds. This "self heal" is usually less than 10% total and that is in the best case scenario. Note: This ONLY exists in one spec.

 

They don't have a better gap closer than a pull. Most of us would kill for a pull. A leap forces you to go where your enemy is, a pull forces them to go where you are. That allows you all kinds of terrain advantages. For example, pulling an enemy into fire, or acid, or back to your whole team to be focus fired.

 

Most ranged class nukes don't require your enemy to be down to 30% health. So yeah, it should hit hard.

 

That immunity comes with a heavy price, that you fail to mention.

 

Also that "sprint" (I assume you mean Transcendence) cannot be used twice in succession. At least not unless someone saves Valorous Call, earns 30 stacks of centering, uses Transcendence, then uses Valorous Call, then uses Transcendence again... Which is far more complicated than you think...

 

On top of that you mentioned the "Group Heal" which uses the same resource as the "Sprint" so you can't even use those back to back.

 

So in your mind a Sentinel is "over powered" because it has a 31 / 31 / 31 spec. Which I agree, would be overpowered, but since they don't have that...

[polopopoo]

]Hold on there sparky.

 

Sentinels and Marauders don't have stealth. We have a 4 second aggro dump. It isn't stealth on the same level as a Shadow, Assassin, Operative, or Scoundrel.

So you can't sneak up and ninja a node with it, an ability that is not needed..

 

They also don't have self heals or a group heal cooldown. They have an ability that restores 2% of their health if a burn tick crits. They have a centering dependent ability that turns that into a group heal for a few seconds. This "self heal" is usually less than 10% total and that is in the best case scenario. Note: This ONLY exists in one spec.

So what you're saying is that they do have self heals, and most will out heal an assassin in prolonged fights.

 

They don't have a better gap closer than a pull. Most of us would kill for a pull. A leap forces you to go where your enemy is, a pull forces them to go where you are. That allows you all kinds of terrain advantages. For example, pulling an enemy into fire, or acid, or back to your whole team to be focus fired.

And I know quite a few huttball carriers that would take jump over pull, you may no pull into fire but you sure can jump and stun people crossing pits.

 

Most ranged class nukes don't require your enemy to be down to 30% health. So yeah, it should hit hard.

Melee means melee. Unless you need a insta gib ability.

 

That immunity comes with a heavy price, that you fail to mention.

I should have mentioned it for when someone is about to kill a mara, and the mara doesnt want to die, my bad.

 

Also that "sprint" (I assume you mean Transcendence) cannot be used twice in succession. At least not unless someone saves Valorous Call, earns 30 stacks of centering, uses Transcendence, then uses Valorous Call, then uses Transcendence again... Which is far more complicated than you think...

Building stacks is pretty quick, sure its not instant, but when you need to move or group to move to defend a node, no other class can do it better. You mean hit sprint, activate cooldown, as soon as sprint ends hit it again?

 

On top of that you mentioned the "Group Heal" which uses the same resource as the "Sprint" so you can't even use those back to back.

You will usually wait until the second rotation of dots are rolling and then group heal it up. Its not very hard building a stack of 30 when your demolishing peeps.

 

So in your mind a Sentinel is "over powered" because it has a 31 / 31 / 31 spec. Which I agree, would be overpowered, but since they don't have that...

 

Nope I'm assuming your ann spec, because rage is a gimmich and carnage is ok. I totally forgot about a 30% healing debuff. Thanks for the post.

Edited April 21, 2012 by polopopoo

[nockout]

I think its because maras have stealth, self heals + group heal cooldown, better gap closer than a pull, 20% damage reduction on a stupid low cooldown, a ranged execute that hits harder than most ranged classes nukes, immunity to all damage buff on a low cooldown, a sprint that can be used twice in succession and have far better burst than anyother class in the game. Problem is why hasn't both AC been brought in line with the rest.

 

4 sec stealth =/= stealthing to a cap guarded by a player, sapping and capping

 

4 sec stealth =/= permanent vanish

 

4 sec stealth =/= sitting in endzone stealthed waiting for passes

 

20% dmg reduction cd = ~ 40% dmg reduction which is what tank sins have all the time

 

your project/shock hits harder than our ranged execute does

 

150% for 2sec every 30sec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 30% for 10sec with the possiblity of 20sec every 5 min

 

Tank sin's do just as much burst as any1 except maybe good slingers. There are plenty of videos that show it.

 

Only you get the most over powered ability in group pvp in this game while doing as much damage as anyone, with as much surviability as anyone....guard.

 

But I expect the complaing to start when ranked comes out and the teams with 3-4 tanks sins take the top.

[polopopoo]

4 sec stealth =/= stealthing to a cap guarded by a player, sapping and capping

 

4 sec stealth =/= permanent vanish

 

4 sec stealth =/= sitting in endzone stealthed waiting for passes

 

20% dmg reduction cd = ~ 40% dmg reduction which is what tank sins have all the time

 

your project/shock hits harder than our ranged execute does

 

150% for 2sec every 30sec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 30% for 10sec with the possiblity of 20sec every 5 min

 

Tank sin's do just as much burst as any1 except maybe good slingers. There are plenty of videos that show it.

 

Only you get the most over powered ability in group pvp in this game while doing as much damage as anyone, with as much surviability as anyone....guard.

 

But I expect the complaing to start when ranked comes out and the teams with 3-4 tanks sins take the top.

 

Never actually played a inquistor. I find it funny when 1 op class points a finger at another op class and think they have it rough. Back to my original point, both classes need to be toned downed in either utility, damage, surviability.

Probably PT's as well, not really sure I dont see alot of em.

Edited April 21, 2012 by polopopoo

[RoyFokker]

He he you can sense them qwivering in their boots with the impending nerfs, the bigger the rubutle post the more apparent the OP is right.

 

Quivering in what? Please L2P.

[Carico]

I'm not saying my guildies, nor myself are the best pvpers, but I think we are pretty good, and I don't usually complain about much of anything. I will die counless times trying different things, and attempting to search other options to try and defeat someone. But when a mara/sent can EASILY take on 2 dps classes that is pretty op. I play deception, I know that's my first mistake, but, deception with all their cooldowns up has pretty beastly burst, and I've been waiting various times to see if there's a better time to use them to make it more of an even match, but when I can blow all my cooldowns and the mara/sent isn't even at 75% hp, and they can burst me down though my supposed defensive cooldowns, and the duration of their cooldowns aren't even half up, that's pretty OP. I know more heckling is to come for playing deception, and I fully expect many deaths, but when you can't even burst a mara/sent to even 50% hp before he kills one of the better burst dps classes, that's OP.

[nockout]

I'm not saying my guildies, nor myself are the best pvpers, but I think we are pretty good, and I don't usually complain about much of anything. I will die counless times trying different things, and attempting to search other options to try and defeat someone. But when a mara/sent can EASILY take on 2 dps classes that is pretty op. I play deception, I know that's my first mistake, but, deception with all their cooldowns up has pretty beastly burst, and I've been waiting various times to see if there's a better time to use them to make it more of an even match, but when I can blow all my cooldowns and the mara/sent isn't even at 75% hp, and they can burst me down though my supposed defensive cooldowns, and the duration of their cooldowns aren't even half up, that's pretty OP. I know more heckling is to come for playing deception, and I fully expect many deaths, but when you can't even burst a mara/sent to even 50% hp before he kills one of the better burst dps classes, that's OP.

 

which is why I specifically said tank sins.

[Carico]

which is why I specifically said tank sins.

 

I wasn't trying to make an argument that tankasins are not op, I was making the argument that mara/sents are.

[eventidephoenix]

I agree that marauders need a nerf in light of the rest of the nerfs, especially to sages...

 

sigh

[RoyFokker]

]Hold on there sparky.

 

 

So you can't sneak up and ninja a node with it, an ability that is not needed..

 

It is needed, it allows you to break target momentarily which gives us a shot to reposition when getting surprised or needing to evade long enough to put some distance.

 

 

So what you're saying is that they do have self heals, and most will out heal an assassin in prolonged fights.

 

No they won't, Anni/Watch will never out-heal an Assassin.

 

And I know quite a few huttball carriers that would take jump over pull, you may no pull into fire but you sure can jump and stun people crossing pits.

 

You mean when they leap and then get pushed back unable to do anything to get back to where they were or keep their target from getting out of range?

 

 

Melee means melee. Unless you need a insta gib ability.

 

A melee character, throwing a melee weapon. Imagine that.

 

 

I should have mentioned it for when someone is about to kill a mara, and the mara doesnt want to die, my bad.

 

 

Building stacks is pretty quick, sure its not instant, but when you need to move or group to move to defend a node, no other class can do it better.

 

Unless you have it talented up, it takes much longer than you think.

 

You will usually wait until the second rotation of dots are rolling and then group heal it up. Its not very hard building a stack of 30 when your demolishing peeps.

 

The heals are still meh, they buy you a couple seconds.

 

 

Nope I'm assuming your ann spec, because rage is a gimmich and carnage is ok. I totally forgot about a 30% healing debuff. Thanks for the post.

Rage/Focus is a gimmick how? It takes planning and timing to be useful. If you're just wanting to spam useless damage on a target it's easy, but otherwise you have to work for it. Carnage/Combat has possibilities, but I haven't tried it since beta. Crippling Throw is a 20% debuff.

 

I'm not saying my guildies, nor myself are the best pvpers, but I think we are pretty good, and I don't usually complain about much of anything. I will die counless times trying different things, and attempting to search other options to try and defeat someone. But when a mara/sent can EASILY take on 2 dps classes that is pretty op. I play deception, I know that's my first mistake, but, deception with all their cooldowns up has pretty beastly burst, and I've been waiting various times to see if there's a better time to use them to make it more of an even match, but when I can blow all my cooldowns and the mara/sent isn't even at 75% hp, and they can burst me down though my supposed defensive cooldowns, and the duration of their cooldowns aren't even half up, that's pretty OP. I know more heckling is to come for playing deception, and I fully expect many deaths, but when you can't even burst a mara/sent to even 50% hp before he kills one of the better burst dps classes, that's OP.

 

One of two things are happening here either you can't play your class properly or you don't know how to play against Sent/Mara.

[V-Serp]

One of two things are happening here either you can't play your class properly or you don't know how to play against Sent/Mara.

 

The class is going to be nerfed hard, deal with it. I bet you were one of the people claiming Sorc is OP and making the same arguments against them that you're making now in defense of Mara, except Sorc was never this bad.

 

It's kind of funny to watch the same Maras that whined about Sorc turn around and swear Maras are fine but Sorc is OP.

[denpic]

As a sage healer that

Literally melts when a Mara/sent Looks at me I feel that the damage is ok and is probably needed

I say this because I can 1v1 really bad ones who have trouble with movement

But the good players there's no escape

What needs to change is the utility the 3second stun on leap the imunity after leap

The defense cool downs need to be tweaked

Also power techs damage is obscene probably more so then sent/Mara

And need some of their interrupts tweaked

Edited April 21, 2012 by denpic

[polopopoo]

So you can't sneak up and ninja a node with it, an ability that is not needed..

 

It is needed, it allows you to break target momentarily which gives us a shot to reposition when getting surprised or needing to evade long enough to put some distance.

 

Yes the strongest dps, most utilized and i'll give you second on surviability behind a assassin, should get an ability help reset the fight in their favor.

 

So what you're saying is that they do have self heals, and most will out heal an assassin in prolonged fights.

 

No they won't, Anni/Watch will never out-heal an Assassin.

 

As stated ive never played an assassin, besides 3% healing on their lighting spam they must get another super heal that ive never noticed. So if i'm wrong on that point, i apolgize and recant,

 

And I know quite a few huttball carriers that would take jump over pull, you may no pull into fire but you sure can jump and stun people crossing pits.

 

You mean when they leap and then get pushed back unable to do anything to get back to where they were or keep their target from getting out of range?

 

Guy steps on fire pad, you jump, he's rooted, you choke he dies in a firey agony. It's not like you couldn't also hit your invicibility and stand in the fire for 5 secs while watching him burn.

 

Melee means melee. Unless you need a insta gib ability.

 

A melee character, throwing a melee weapon. Imagine that.

 

Yes a melee who can take 25% of a clothies health out with a ranged attack is cool. Just make sure to give mercs the same treatment on rocket punch. Of course rocket punch hits for half of what that does and has a longer cooldown.

 

I should have mentioned it for when someone is about to kill a mara, and the mara doesnt want to die, my bad.

 

Building stacks is pretty quick, sure its not instant, but when you need to move or group to move to defend a node, no other class can do it better.

 

Unless you have it talented up, it takes much longer than you think.

Thankfully they gave you another get out of jail free card and you have a 3ish min cooldown too do just that.

 

You will usually wait until the second rotation of dots are rolling and then group heal it up. Its not very hard building a stack of 30 when your demolishing peeps.

 

The heals are still meh, they buy you a couple seconds.

They are meh, but i have seen maras with the 75k healing medal since 1.2

 

 

Nope I'm assuming your ann spec, because rage is a gimmich and carnage is ok. I totally forgot about a 30% healing debuff. Thanks for the post.

 

Rage/Focus is a gimmick how? It takes planning and timing to be useful. If you're just wanting to spam useless damage on a target it's easy, but otherwise you have to work for it. Carnage/Combat has possibilities, but I haven't tried it since beta. Crippling Throw is a 20% debuff.

 

I agree spamming damage on 1 target is easy. But useless damage comes from a class that hits 5k smashes and then kinda waits for his next jump to come off cooldown. Wheres as Ann will take a sorc or bh healer down in about 8 secs.

 

 

Back to my original point, not trying to say sentinal/mara are better than tankasins. I'm saying both are too good in utility/damage/survivability.

[LoKiei]

Tanksins are more OP then marauders.

[polopopoo]

Tanksins are more OP then marauders.

 

Good Troll, but its a moot point. It's like saying whats the strongest animal in the ocean a great white or a killer whale and every thing else is a baby seal.

 

And for your information its the killer whale

[Cempa]

I would ask for the job of the game designer(s) who made the Marauder changes, who allowed one tree to have 3 immobilize off resolve, who buffed Ravage and who allowed 99% damage mitigation to enter live game play and allowed 20% mitigation to be for ALL damage.

[Xerain]

I would ask for the job of the game designer(s) who made the Marauder changes, who allowed one tree to have 3 immobilize off resolve, who buffed Ravage and who allowed 99% damage mitigation to enter live game play and allowed 20% mitigation to be for ALL damage.

 

you run around in medium armor without cloak of pain and see how bad you get ripped apart. Operatives have stealth, marauders have their cool downs. We're an up in the fray fighter not a pick a target drop it and then restealth. We're not a selective fighter like that.

[Raansu]

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

 

(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week.

 

Meaning they found nothing wrong with marauders/sentinels and all the baddies are just QQing.

 

/thread.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

 

 

Meaning they found nothing wrong with marauders/sentinels and all the baddies are just QQing.

 

/thread.

 

Pretty much. Sentinels and Marauders are fine.

[Xerain]

Pretty much. Sentinels and Marauders are fine.

 

Been saying this since before we got a fury/zen mechanic.