Why do fresh 50's have the same gear as me

[AlyxDinas]

Oh, the "work for" "argument" again. Hello - games are not supposed to be work, but fun.

 

Tell that to B. F. Skinner.

[jolleebindu]

It is ridiculous that I spent many weeks doing the daily and weekly trying to get BM commendations through a stupid RNG system. BW could have at least made BM gear cost more and not make it so easily obtainable.

 

It is basically like BW not caring for the time of those who grinded to get the gear.

 

A big spit in the face.

 

next tier makes previous easier to get, it's no longer top, WH is - and that will prob take as long as your BM did pre 1.2 - though with much less rng

Edited April 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
IC - quote

[jolleebindu]

Without expertise you'd have to PvE raid to do well in PvP. Expertise is a great and needed addition to make sure people are not forced to pve to pvp. What is needed is to make sure everyone can get the needed expertise gear quickly and cheaply, so PvP is easy and fun to enter.

 

no, not at all

fix stats in pvp, scale them to a fixed level - allow secondary stat changes, cap the primary stats, and have a cap on the secondary ones - where allocation changes their distribution in pvp

 

if you want gear progression, require pvp gear to maximize the stat cap

 

pve gear would work in pvp, but there would be no advantage from tiers above the cap - say tier 1, for example

[AKfourtyseven]

that would require like 72 hrs of straight pvp

 

also, BM gear is the new 2nd tier gear

 

how long did it take you to get your champion gear? because that is what BM is now

 

It does not take 72hrs to get BM now. It would only take that long if you were pulling 0-40 comms per match. You may disagree, but ive done the "fresh 50 who could only just afford to buy recruit gear --> full BM" grind in 1.2, i know exactly what it requires.

 

It took me longer to get Champ gear in original system. It took longer to get full champ with the 7 champ comms per champ bag.

 

This new system makes it very easy to be competitive in almost no time. This is good for alts and new players, but i can understand how a person who only had one character would feel their time had been invalidated. What i would say to them is while everyone else is grinding BM, you are grinding WH, so you are still a step ahead.

 

The same time it takes a fresh 50 to grind full BM (your average fresh 50, not one who out-performs), i imagine a player who started on full BM could obtain a WH piece, maybe even a mainhand.

Edited April 20, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[jolleebindu]

It does not take 72hrs to get BM now. It would only take that long if you were pulling 0-40 comms per match. You may disagree, but ive done the "fresh 50 who could only just afford to buy recruit gear --> full BM" grind in 1.2, i know exactly what it requires.

 

It took me longer to get Champ gear in original system. It took longer to get full champ with the 7 champ comms per champ bag.

 

then, what does it exactly require...

seriously, i'm curious

i had cent/champ pre 1.2 and have been pvping on an average of a couple hours a day, i'm very far along - but have pieces i still need. TBH i was averaging about 60 coms a match from wins and losses - pugged most so lost more than half, and play a pure dps class so can't access the defense/healing medals, not complaining just informing.

also BM is 2nd best tier now - shouldn't be as hard to get as when it was #1

agreed, that was an exaggeration mostly to make the point of what steps are required, before being competitive in equal skill based matches

Edited April 20, 2012 by jolleebindu
additional comment

[krazi]

Oh the useless arguments about gear and pvp

 

Lets put it this way

We all love pvp apparently, which is why we are trying to defend it especially in this game versus someone who hates it or hates something that you like so you must respond to it

Fact is...we just want to pvp, literally on equal terms no?

Why is it then, in the past games like world of warcraft, aion, etc people created private servers? For the PVE content? Of course not, errr maybe sometimes anyways! Mostly pvpers and big fans of pvp would go to these private servers and join the pvp servers that instantly capped you at level (max level) and you got starter pvp gear...or some kind of gear that allowed you to pvp and work um...not exactly very hard for a "better" set of gear to have a little more of an advantage over other players or be even with those who are 2% better than the rest of the players other gear

 

I'll tell you why people did this. You all can throw opinions on this or try to explain how I'm wrong using facts, please.

They don't care if you give gear out to everyone, they certaintly didn't mind the free max level cap did they? No.

They just simply...wanted....to....PVP and have a good time pvping with the pvp COMMUNITY of other major PVP fanatics.

 

Someone said earlier a game without progression is a game that will die? Haha, come on now, you need progression to literally really enjoy a nice game of pvp, of butting heads. A good time showing the skill you've gained? the tricks you've learned? How to deal with certain situation and certain classes? Progression doesn't kill a game, horrible pvp kills the game for PVP fans around the world and even then we still stay and pvp, we rage...we get angry when something DOESN'T GO OUR WAY, yet we continue playing...repeating what we did

 

So, tell me what happens after you get warhero and warhero gear? Well, progression stops there's nothing more to get from pvping. There's no better armor. Did the game die? No, because progression doesn't make a game just as graphics don't make great gameplay, the greatest looking game in the world could have the most horrid gameplay ever, how many times have you seen a fantastic looking beautiful, greatly modeled, newest technology engine have the number 1 gameplay? I for one have never seen it happen.

Edited April 20, 2012 by krazi

[Syylara]

It does not take 72hrs to get BM now. It would only take that long if you were pulling 0-40 comms per match. You may disagree, but ive done the "fresh 50 who could only just afford to buy recruit gear --> full BM" grind in 1.2, i know exactly what it requires.

 

It took me longer to get Champ gear in original system. It took longer to get full champ with the 7 champ comms per champ bag.

 

This new system makes it very easy to be competitive in almost no time. This is good for alts and new players, but i can understand how a person who only had one character would feel their time had been invalidated. What i would say to them is while everyone else is grinding BM, you are grinding WH, so you are still a step ahead.

 

The same time it takes a fresh 50 to grind full BM (your average fresh 50, not one who out-performs), i imagine a player who started on full BM could obtain a WH piece, maybe even a mainhand.

 

The current grind for WH is anomalous to what is actually intended since there are no rated warzones, so you have to trade regular warzone comms.

 

As far as the time the average player would get to BM, well that depends on a whole host of factors,

 

At a 50% win rate (which is obviously the average across the whole playerbase) you could expect 70 comms per match.

 

Assuming 5 minute queues and 15 minute matches

 

~12,000 comms for the full set

 

12,000 / 70=171 matches

 

171 matches x 20 minutes = 3420 minutes

 

3420 minutes / 60 = 57 hours

 

Dailies can cut into that, but at 99 comms a day they don't add a whole lot.

 

Even at a 100% win rate, the figure comes out to 40 hours, again assuming you can get 5 minute queues all day long (which a lot of servers cannot).

 

I haven't had a chance to look at the new typical win/loss commendation numbers, so obviously this math is now out of date, but I'm addressing your having done this in just the past week.

 

Only a miniscule sliver of the overall game community is going to put 40-60 hours of playtime into a video game in 4 days time.

 

At 2 hours a night 5 nights a week you're looking at 5-6 weeks to gear up with 1.2 numbers, maybe down to 3-4 as of this last patch/hotfix. The truth is, many of these players that people assume magically geared up in 3-4 days probably already had half or more BM done already.

[damolawler]

It might take 3 days to farm gear if you play 24/7. Most peolple have distractions like jobs, and friends, and talk to girls. So in reality it actually takes quite a lot longer.

[AKfourtyseven]

The current grind for WH is anomalous to what is actually intended since there are no rated warzones, so you have to trade regular warzone comms.

 

As far as the time the average player would get to BM, well that depends on a whole host of factors,

 

At a 50% win rate (which is obviously the average across the whole playerbase) you could expect 70 comms per match.

 

Assuming 5 minute queues and 15 minute matches

 

~12,000 comms for the full set

 

12,000 / 70=171 matches

 

171 matches x 20 minutes = 3420 minutes

 

3420 minutes / 60 = 57 hours

 

Dailies can cut into that, but at 99 comms a day they don't add a whole lot.

 

Even at a 100% win rate, the figure comes out to 40 hours, again assuming you can get 5 minute queues all day long (which a lot of servers cannot).

 

I haven't had a chance to look at the new typical win/loss commendation numbers, so obviously this math is now out of date, but I'm addressing your having done this in just the past week.

 

Only a miniscule sliver of the overall game community is going to put 40-60 hours of playtime into a video game in 4 days time.

 

At 2 hours a night 5 nights a week you're looking at 5-6 weeks to gear up with 1.2 numbers, maybe down to 3-4 as of this last patch/hotfix. The truth is, many of these players that people assume magically geared up in 3-4 days probably already had half or more BM done already.

 

Your maths isnt *wrong*, but for a player like myself it doesnt hold true and my post was about my direct experience.

 

Firstly, i dont have to wait 5mins to get a PvP match, more like 5-60 seconds. I re-rolled for a reason.

 

Secondly, your maths assumes a WZ goes the full 15minutes, this in my experience, only happens a portion of the time. This will drastically cut down your time required to gear up. There is nothing like crushing a team 6-0 in under 10 minutes in hutball and keeping it moving.

 

Another issue, is where did you pull 4 days from? The OP was speaking about 3-4 days, i however was responding about being able to gear in the 7 since 1.2, there is a big difference, especially if you consider the changes last night that doubled the rewards for losing and granted an additional boost for winning (meaning its now 80-140 comms instead of 40-100 you are looking at guaranteed).

 

I would honestly say that it likely took me a total of 40hrs play to gear up (it cant be much longer than that because my /played hasnt gone up enough). If it wasnt half-term meaning i was off from work then it would have been 2-3 weeks to gear up at the usual average play per night.

 

Edit: Dont forget as Pvpers we had 100k comms saved before 50, thats an entire night of PvP saved. Also, doing each daily and the weekly would have given you another BM item for free this week. it all adds up to save valuable time!

Edited April 20, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Alpha-Llama]

OP > youre good because of your skill not your gear

 

The sign of good pvp is when people feel on all sides that they have to try to win.

 

Feel free to post why you feel otherwise ?

[Ynoz]

I know when I say this most people wont agree with me but so be it and flame away if you want its no skin off my back.

 

Now

 

Average players who can't spend a lot of time playing but enjoy the occasional pvping, want to be able to enjoy that part of the game too. I agree that there has to be some sence of earning gear and a whole look at the effort I put in, but if that "gap" is so wide and I speak of experience it kills that part of the game, because no matter your skill, rotations and knowledge of your class and other classes you still get beaten because of a gear difference then the game looses it's pvp appeal.

 

I don't want to go into a pvp match and get beaten senseless because some guy has awesome gear and a high expertise rating. that isn't skill. I feel that one has to work for it but I also feel that it has to be attainable for your average joe....

 

I love this game's PVP, I enjoy the dynamics and the mechanics of it. However I would like to be able to be rewarded for my growth in skill and be able to obtain gear that even if I do not play very often. I will be able to feel like I am assisting my team in reaching the objective, not some peice of cannon fodder used to keep the opposing team busy for 5 seconds.

 

I get that some people had to work long and hard to get their gear and I admire you for that, but remember that was your choice.if it becomes a case of lets go pvp... oh whoop I get to play cannon fodder again... then you lose intrest in Pvping and in the end. Then Pvp is reserved for the people who can afford to play more than others. The mid road is tough to find but also remember that the game has to cater for more than one type of player...

[xirinia]

3 days is long enough to farm for gear, some of us have lives.

People like you are the reason games die.

 

And people like you don't get to procreate

[Kracin]

I freaking hate this gear system.

 

People hit 50 and 3 days later have full battlemaster. What's the sense in being equal to a fresh 50 when I've busted my *** getting valor lvl 75?

 

I'd love to see 60 valor required for BM and 70 for war hero gear, seems fair to me.

 

edit: just thought i'd put my thoughts out there, kthx.

 

i lul at the guys who cry like this.

 

honestly, you don't want to pvp, you want to gvp, you aren't doing any of the fighting, its all your gear.

 

if i fight against another assassin, and that guy completely mops the floor with me. i know he is on a whole othe rlevel as far as class skill is, it doesn't happen often, but there is always someone better.

 

 

pvp is competative, and is meant to be somewhat equal starting grounds. otherwise there would be no level brackets and you would get your wish to fight levels 30-50 all at the same time. then you can go brag to everyone how you beat all these people who didnt even have implants on

[dazednconfuzed]

A lot of people have left because of these changes, thats why WZ's are longer queues, because no one wants to play your carebear game. Thats why you' casuals are crying for server merges because your 'view' of the game and how it should be pushed all the good players to other games. Wonder why the GTN sucks now? No high end players farming or crafting gear for the masses because they're gone.

 

My account expires the 21st I believe, I actually only came back to play around with a few friends because of the plague event. Nineteen of my friends accounts will expire this week (my guild) because of these changes, so enjoy what you have left to play, looks like all the players who can do anything have gone Galt =).

 

Good riddance if you ask me. We don't need players who can't see sunlight because their heads are so far up their asses.

[Tremont]

I would like to see all gear removed frm PVP. Everyone spawn in balanced equivalent gear. Voila, skill game! you can have some nice cosmetics for Valor 75, enjoy.

 

^^^This would be a refreshing change. Skill > Gear

[Abiza]

Haven't see this many casual tears in a while! Thanks op

[Cupelixx]

It is fair. There is nothing preventing you from getting the same gear i have except for time spent.

 

Bioware is already catering to the casuals by having a 10-49 bracket.

 

So is it really that you feel slighted because there is an easier path to get gear that took you a long time to earn? In this case, get over yourself. You are not as important and entitled as you think. Don't even try telling me that if the tables were turned that you would think it's fair getting ran over by players equipped with gear 3 tiers above you while you have no hope of winning.

 

Seems to me you simply want to have an advantage over new PvPers for as long as it takes them to get competitive gear. Grow up. This happens all the time in MMOs. I think you are just jealous that people can become competitive in less time than it took you. Get over it and adapt.

[sharkfinsix]

I freaking hate this gear system.

 

People hit 50 and 3 days later have full battlemaster. What's the sense in being equal to a fresh 50 when I've busted my *** getting valor lvl 75?

 

I'd love to see 60 valor required for BM and 70 for war hero gear, seems fair to me.

 

edit: just thought i'd put my thoughts out there, kthx.

 

Well if you have skill as a PVPer why do you care if they have equal gear? unless you need the gear as a crutch to win.

[DarthKhaos]

I am looking forward to my credit bought full Rakata set so I can do nightmare operations with little experience in them.

 

Or is that not the same thing?

 

PVE'ers who want to try their hand at PVP, I truly do welcome you, we all want more people playing our side of the game. How do you feel about me being able to buy the same PVE gear you have worked for over 4 months though? Pretty sure I know the answer.

I agree with you. The recruit set should be for comms not cash. However they got this annoying thing about not allowing you to buy level 50 PvP gear before level 50. I don't get that. I did the time earned the comms and I can't buy the item.

 

I could deal with the fact that I'd of been over Valor Rank 80 when my PvP toon hit 50 but was stuck at level cap as I leveled what I can't agree to is not being able to buy the gear with the currency I had.

[Gjorind]

I am looking forward to my credit bought full Rakata set so I can do nightmare operations with little experience in them.

 

Or is that not the same thing?

 

PVE'ers who want to try their hand at PVP, I truly do welcome you, we all want more people playing our side of the game. How do you feel about me being able to buy the same PVE gear you have worked for over 4 months though? Pretty sure I know the answer.

 

Not even remotely close to the same thing. The Battlemaster gear, which requires warzone participation to receive, is more in line with the Rakata PvE gear.

 

The recruit gear is in line with the PvE stuff that you can have crafted, or find on high end quests, etc, etc. It is certainly of inferior quality to the gear you'd find in level 50 flashpoints while inching yourself toward the Rakata gear. In other words, it's the basic set of gear, the same style of junk that you'd purchase in PvE to make yourself functional enough to go get your "earned" PvE gear.

 

And it's in the same exact place as the equivalent PvE pieces. You can chose to not have it if you want, but all you're doing is letting yourself take 15% more damage and do 15% less damage in the playground it is intended for, same as not updating yourself to decent level 50 blues when you ding max level in PvE.

[KiranK]

Oh, this again, the 'fair fight' quote. They should have to work for their gear, if you want that sort of game go play GW2.

 

Oh this again, the "I played more so I should be OP for no reason" quote. They should be able to pvp on a level playing field. If want gear based gameplay, go play WoW.

Edited April 20, 2012 by KiranK

[DarthKhaos]

If you want to make the acquisition of gear harder, then let me be able to buy it at whatever level I want. Don't tell me I HAVE to be level 50 to buy it then tack on an insane grind to it. If I can buy it from WZ commendations then let me buy it whenever I want with WZ commendations.

[Mirthadrond]

OP - Nice QQ thread bro.

 

So, basically you're saying that the Super Bowl champs get to play the next season with clubs, nets and 12 players on the field? Because they 'earned' better gear by winning the championship game??

 

If you need some shiny new carrot to work towards, perhaps you should consider trying another vegetable?

 

I hear cucumbers are really good this time of year.

 

On topic and IMO.

If Bioware wants to keep expertise I'm fine with that, it prevents the Operation/FP farmers from dominating. You 'should' be wearing PVP gear, in PVP or you will be crushed. This is a good thing.

 

That being said, the ONLY difference in gear should be appearance, and the ability to MOD it with the stats you want. If you DONT want alacrity, you aren't required to slot it.

It's not rocket science, really. You can have gear progression and other PVP rewards without creating HUGE balance issues.

[Metalmac]

3 days is long enough to farm for gear, some of us have lives.

 

Yep here is mine on the third day of being a 50:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi_6Na_ifWg

 

All gear I paid for and it cost me almost all my cash I got to get to 50 and also I was still wearing 2 greens.

[Jurgen-Ferik]

Because bioware is dying for subs. Usually things like this happen a year out from launch.

 

They nerfed leveling in PVP rather quickly. In todays market, hardcore games get the shaft.

 

Just fly casual.