Sorc Nerfs not as bad as they seem

[revampt]

I understand how our class changed but for some reason i feel actually stronger. I'm a full BM dps force master and mystic sorc and as either spec still top charts and kill poeple or live. For whatever reason i feel stronger than ever.

 

As dps i hit way harder becasue of the expertise changes, QQ all u want about instant cl at least the best spec has creeping terror in it now, if used correctly it wrecks shop.

 

As for heals i have no clue why but im still killing it, must be because i know how to los, pvp stands for player vs pillar. if a mauras on u stun him and los him, if hes on someone else hope they have good gear and spam heal them GG.

 

Stop all the QQ anyone that played a good sorc before can recognize the opness and tbh we are still BA. pve however got hit harder than anything

[WickedImage]

Roll with a RL friend who says it's business as usual on his socerer.....he has zero issues/complaints thus far.

He is only level 36 but says the only change is getting used to managing his resource, as opposed to before, when it was endless. I don't have one though.

/shrug

[Stongrel]

OP is clueless.

[Eddar]

OP is clueless.

OP is not clueless... you are.

 

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/...nal/669733.jpg

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/...nal/669732.jpg

[Lugh]

Roll with a RL friend who says it's business as usual on his socerer.....he has zero issues/complaints thus far.

He is only level 36 but says the only change is getting used to managing his resource, as opposed to before, when it was endless. I don't have one though.

/shrug

 

So he's not being insta bigged by Sentinels and Juggernauts? Lucky him...

[Eddar]

PvE however got hit harder than anything

Not rly, it's just a bit counter intuitive to lose HP to heal, but it's a matter of adjustment.

[Cempa]

OP is clueless.

 

He is disillusioned due to the fact that his entire view is based on his server specific experience which is motley with and against random players who are a wide variety of gear and PC speed/Internet speed and skill.

 

He is playing with and against players who most likely this is the first PvP MMO they play/played.

 

Reality will never set in with players like OP until we have arena/cross server when the only way to get gear is +22xx rating.

 

 

.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Cempa

[Eddar]

He is disillusioned due to the fact that his entire view is based on his server specific experience which is motley with and against random players who are a wide variety of gear and PC speed/Internet speed and skill.

 

He is playing with and against players who most likely this is the first PvP MMO they play/played.

 

Reality will never set in with players like OP until we have arena/cross server when the only way to get gear is +22xx rating.

 

.

 

So the OP's views (and mine btw) are based on an unreliable system, but your's aren't? Wow didn't knew there was cross server WZ for all servers besides mine and the OP's... damn it!

Edited April 19, 2012 by Eddar

[Cempa]

So the OP's views (and mine btw) are based on an unreliable system, but your's aren't? Wow didn't knew there was cross server WZ for all servers besides mine and the OP's... damn it!

 

Its based on the blatantly obvious fact that skill PC/Internet speed between server specific PuG game play is well and alive.

 

Go join a WZ right, THIS VERY SECOND and you will find near half of the players seem to be kind of new at PvP. Its clear as day, unless of course you are one of those players!

Edited April 19, 2012 by Cempa

[Stongrel]

OP is not clueless... you are.

 

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/...nal/669733.jpg

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/...nal/669732.jpg

Negative, you're both clueless.

[JediDuckling]

I understand how our class changed but for some reason i feel actually stronger. I'm a full BM dps force master and mystic sorc and as either spec still top charts and kill poeple or live. For whatever reason i feel stronger than ever.

 

As dps i hit way harder becasue of the expertise changes, QQ all u want about instant cl at least the best spec has creeping terror in it now, if used correctly it wrecks shop.

 

As for heals i have no clue why but im still killing it, must be because i know how to los, pvp stands for player vs pillar. if a mauras on u stun him and los him, if hes on someone else hope they have good gear and spam heal them GG.

 

Stop all the QQ anyone that played a good sorc before can recognize the opness and tbh we are still BA. pve however got hit harder than anything

 

lol lightning and dots spam hits freaking hard i dont know what people are moaning about they are still OP lol

[Stongrel]

lol lightning and dots spam hits freaking hard i dont know what people are moaning about they are still OP lol

FL does significantly less damage, and dots get purged. Madness tree owns scrubs n pugs, nothing more. Next.

[Ugrah]

I agree with OP. Full madness is a way to go or at least when I respecced for it, it did surprise me how many people around me suddenly die. I was originally very sad about the state of sorcerers but I am not anymore, I'll just work my *** off to get the modified war hero gear for critical / surge and be happy with it.

I am not shooting heals like I did before. But DPS wise it is as good as ever

[revampt]

when u pvp alot you can tell whos good and whos bad, who was bm pre valor buff etc. Even against the best of the best my sorc is still pulling it off, i know we got hit as a class but for me at least it hasnt been bad at all tbh i still be carrying wzs just liek i did pre 1.2

[Eddar]

Its based on the blatantly obvious fact that skill PC/Internet speed between server specific PuG game play is well and alive.

 

Go join a WZ right, THIS VERY SECOND and you will find near half of the players seem to be kind of new at PvP. Its clear as day, unless of course you are one of those players!

Servers are down.

And I don't play WZs in the morning.

[sneroplex]

What I used to like about dps Sages pre 1.2 - we had several viable PVP specs... Balance, hybrids (with many variations), and even Telekinetic used to be playable in PVP.

 

Now we only have one viable PVP damage spec, and that is Balance. While Balance is pretty good, it is nowhere near the same level as some of the other OP classes running around, and it's almost completely lacking in burst.

 

Burst > Damage over time.

[Stongrel]

What I used to like about dps Sages pre 1.2 - we had several viable PVP specs... Balance, hybrids (with many variations), and even Telekinetic used to be playable in PVP.

 

Now we only have one viable PVP damage spec, and that is Balance. While Balance is pretty good, it is nowhere near the same level as some of the other OP classes running around, and it's almost completely lacking in burst.

 

Burst > Damage over time.

Pretty accurate.

[Cempa]

I'm going to quote another poster from the Sorcerer forums because it is an excellent post so you can maybe understand what s going on: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4042342#post4042342

 

Poster: warultima

 

"Sorc nerfs are indirectly caused by over recating on a double dipping bug and a direct result of incompetent DEV catering to QQers.

 

Sorcs were never face roll even pre 1.2 but since all the spells sorc cast look exactly like force lightning with shorter duration or sometimes a flash of lightning making the majority of those "less proficient PvPers" out there feeling like they were being killed by simple force lightning spam and some minor dots here and there.

 

The truth is force lightning ticks for hmm about 500 to 600 damage a second is nothing great compare to what other classes can do. Most knowledgeable PvP oriented guilds noted that sorc as the weakest 1v1 class compare to ALL other AC in the entire game pre-1.2 (unless the sorc uses tri-spec hybrid and abuse the crap out of double dipping for fast mid-combat self burst healing) and this is further nerfed to 1.2 and yes sorcs/sages now serves nothing but a Real Life-Like practicing dummy that moves and pretends fighting back in 1v1 against comparable skilled/geared players. But real PvP isnt 1v1 so we will stay away from that can of worm.

 

Speaking from PvP perspective,

 

Theres no reason to take a dps sorc when you have similarly skilled players in comparable gear playing Marauder / Sniper / Merc / PT / Jug / Operative / DPStankSin. (maybe for hutball for the extricate).

 

Furthermore theres no reason to take a Healing Sorc in any competitive PvP match up when you have Merc/Operative counterpart you can choose from.

 

PvP 101.

The best DPS tactic in group PvP is focus firing.

Focus firing is emphasized by solid burst DPS from multiple individuals against 1 single target.

The best PvP DPS is Burst DPS.

The best healing is as well quick burst healing.

Quick burst healing is a direct counter to Focusing DPS

The best Healing in PvP is INSTANT or FAST and UNINTERPRETABLE high burst healing.

The best healer can sustain (eg heavy armor) or avoid (eg emergency combat stealth/AoE mezz when focus firing is inc) a big amount of focus fire hence giving other healer time to healing counter their DPS. (This is done when the focused target survives the initial focusing assault)

 

Sorc has none of the characteristics mentioned above DPS or Heal.

 

What sorc excel is 1v1 kiting (which is pointless in well organized group PvP), and wasting enemy time by LoS everywhere (which also LoS your own heal from your teammate) and running around trying to survive making enemies to cancel their casting and buy the team some time. And last but not least sprc is spec into lightning (the worst PvP tree for a sorc if go deep), and when the enemy bunch up together and allowing you to free cast none stop and ultra turreting, a lightning sorc can put out some decent AoE damage.

 

Dont get me wrong there are still decent sorcs out there pvping and doing alright, but that particular player will do even better doing whatever hes good at if he was playing something else better suited for pvp than a sorc. (for example a Marauder/Jugg/PT/Merc/Sniper/Operative/Assassin.)"

Edited April 19, 2012 by Cempa

[revampt]

sorcs have alot of those things. both burst dps and burst healing, plus more utility than any other healer.

[iphobia]

Sorc is fine...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...until the rage-Juggernaut decides to use enrage for 4 stacks of shockwave and instant charge-smashes you for 50% of your hp to start the fight.

Works same with Marauders, PowerTechs and Sins, any decent player of those classes will just global any Sorc out there. There is no way a Sorc is gonna win a 1v1 against a Player of those classes with equal gear and skill.

Oh, and I'm talking about a Dps-Sorc. Heal clearly didn't need the nerf, good players could already kill healers before, now you just die as soon as you get focused (except there are other heals around or you have guard or someone who peels the dps from you).

Stop watching the damage-charts at the end of the game. In 4/5 games I'm clearly on top, sometimes with 2x the damage of the 2nd highest. Why? Because we are an AoE- and DoT-Class. This isn't what matters in PvP.

Person above me is absolutely correct, we have no burst in both, damage and heals, and this is what matters in PvP.

[revampt]

and how is vanishing any different than sprinting and los or mez dif than a stun of interupt. as for high armor mercs they jsut sitting ducks, alot of the time it comes a point no heal spamming and siting in los will save you

[Cempa]

and how is vanishing any different than sprinting and los or mez dif than a stun of interupt. as for high armor mercs they jsut sitting ducks, alot of the time it comes a point no heal spamming and siting in los will save you

 

I will try ONE more time and I hope your attention span lasts long enough this time, if you actually read whats below you will have your answers:

 

I'm going to quote another poster from the Sorcerer forums because it is an excellent post so you can maybe understand what s going on: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...42#post4042342

 

Poster: warultima

 

"Sorc nerfs are indirectly caused by over recating on a double dipping bug and a direct result of incompetent DEV catering to QQers.

 

Sorcs were never face roll even pre 1.2 but since all the spells sorc cast look exactly like force lightning with shorter duration or sometimes a flash of lightning making the majority of those "less proficient PvPers" out there feeling like they were being killed by simple force lightning spam and some minor dots here and there.

 

The truth is force lightning ticks for hmm about 500 to 600 damage a second is nothing great compare to what other classes can do. Most knowledgeable PvP oriented guilds noted that sorc as the weakest 1v1 class compare to ALL other AC in the entire game pre-1.2 (unless the sorc uses tri-spec hybrid and abuse the crap out of double dipping for fast mid-combat self burst healing) and this is further nerfed to 1.2 and yes sorcs/sages now serves nothing but a Real Life-Like practicing dummy that moves and pretends fighting back in 1v1 against comparable skilled/geared players. But real PvP isnt 1v1 so we will stay away from that can of worm.

 

Speaking from PvP perspective,

 

Theres no reason to take a dps sorc when you have similarly skilled players in comparable gear playing Marauder / Sniper / Merc / PT / Jug / Operative / DPStankSin. (maybe for hutball for the extricate).

 

Furthermore theres no reason to take a Healing Sorc in any competitive PvP match up when you have Merc/Operative counterpart you can choose from.

 

PvP 101.

The best DPS tactic in group PvP is focus firing.

Focus firing is emphasized by solid burst DPS from multiple individuals against 1 single target.

The best PvP DPS is Burst DPS.

The best healing is as well quick burst healing.

Quick burst healing is a direct counter to Focusing DPS

The best Healing in PvP is INSTANT or FAST and UNINTERPRETABLE high burst healing.

The best healer can sustain (eg heavy armor) or avoid (eg emergency combat stealth/AoE mezz when focus firing is inc) a big amount of focus fire hence giving other healer time to healing counter their DPS. (This is done when the focused target survives the initial focusing assault)

 

Sorc has none of the characteristics mentioned above DPS or Heal.

 

What sorc excel is 1v1 kiting (which is pointless in well organized group PvP), and wasting enemy time by LoS everywhere (which also LoS your own heal from your teammate) and running around trying to survive making enemies to cancel their casting and buy the team some time. And last but not least sprc is spec into lightning (the worst PvP tree for a sorc if go deep), and when the enemy bunch up together and allowing you to free cast none stop and ultra turreting, a lightning sorc can put out some decent AoE damage.

 

Dont get me wrong there are still decent sorcs out there pvping and doing alright, but that particular player will do even better doing whatever hes good at if he was playing something else better suited for pvp than a sorc. (for example a Marauder/Jugg/PT/Merc/Sniper/Operative/Assassin.)"

Edited April 19, 2012 by Cempa

[unixbomber]

and how is vanishing any different than sprinting and los or mez dif than a stun of interupt. as for high armor mercs they jsut sitting ducks, alot of the time it comes a point no heal spamming and siting in los will save you

 

When rated warzones are available and the best teams stack healing operatives, you'll understand.

[V-Serp]

There is nothing a Sorc can do better than a Mara. High level PVP teams are going to stack at least 4 Maras, and then 2 Operatives for healing, and then 2 Assassins for tank/stealth capability. That is going to be the ideal setup and there is no reason to bring anything else, unless you don't need to play at a top level. You can swap out one of the Ops for another Mara if you really want. Heck you don't really even need stealth and tanking and healing, so if you really just want to be funny you can go 8 Maras, but the 4-5 Mara team is a little less risky.

[Jatne]

Sorc is fine...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...until the rage-Juggernaut decides to use enrage for 4 stacks of shockwave and instant charge-smashes you for 50% of your hp to start the fight.

Works same with Marauders, PowerTechs and Sins, any decent player of those classes will just global any Sorc out there. There is no way a Sorc is gonna win a 1v1 against a Player of those classes with equal gear and skill.

Oh, and I'm talking about a Dps-Sorc. Heal clearly didn't need the nerf, good players could already kill healers before, now you just die as soon as you get focused (except there are other heals around or you have guard or someone who peels the dps from you).

Stop watching the damage-charts at the end of the game. In 4/5 games I'm clearly on top, sometimes with 2x the damage of the 2nd highest. Why? Because we are an AoE- and DoT-Class. This isn't what matters in PvP.

Person above me is absolutely correct, we have no burst in both, damage and heals, and this is what matters in PvP.

 

Healers are not meant to 1 vs. 1. Period. They have all the tools to CC and then require Tanks/DPS to peel for them. This is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. Stop with the "I should be able to hold the sky up with one hand whilst smiting with the other." That's not balance.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Jatne