chaosdefined Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Basically what they are saying is only listen to them and people like them. Isn't that what both camps are doing? Although at least the Pro Cross Server group are offering up compromises. The Anti-Cross Server group just throw tantrums about that time someone stole their precious loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varteras Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I don't care about what group said this or whatnot. I was pointing out the arrogance of that post in particular. I would do the same thing if someone who was pro-cross server said the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I don't care about what group said this or whatnot. I was pointing out the arrogance of that post in particular. I would do the same thing if someone who was pro-cross server said the same thing. Which is fair. Personally I think Cross-Server is needed. I would rather they did Single-Server and Merge Servers but I know they're not going to do the latter anytime soon, and because they made the mistake of A) Launching without a Group Finder and B)Opened up way too many new servers during the initial launch surge, they're already shot themselves in the foot for Single Server Group Finder solving any problems on servers with low populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGun Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Isn't that what both camps are doing? Although at least the Pro Cross Server group are offering up compromises. The Anti-Cross Server group just throw tantrums about that time someone stole their precious loot. I'm with the Anti-Cross Server group and I'll offer a compromise. Try sever only first, as they are doing, and see if the problem is a lack of people, or a lack of a way to find people. Now that there are 3 daily areas, 4 currently during the Rakghoul Event, 50 are spread over a multiple planets. Throw in the fleet and your own ship and it is no wonder it takes so long to find people. Same goes for leveling players. People of the same level could be spread out over multiple planets depending on their play style. The developers have acknowledged the fact that having a cross server LFG tool removes social pressures to not to be a jerk or ninja or whatever your choice of word. I for one do not to want to see such a pressure removed. Plus, it is even more rewarding to find groups of players on your own servers because you can make new friends and find more players to share your Star Wars adventure with. Edited April 18, 2012 by BigGun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valanze Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Flashpoints would need to be the priority. The reason for this is a simple one. There is nothing more frustrating to me personally than knowing there is this great instance out there that I can do get gear for my level, get social points, experience the stories that it has to tell and then going oh wait I can't get a group. That is extremely frustrating. I am all about content especially leveling up content these are things I should be doing to progress, understand my character more, and dip into the social aspects of TOR. Social is extremely important to the level up experience. I myself play 100% lightside. I really enjoy have a dark side player in the group it feels more dynamic when they win a roll and I am forced to go with it. A few times a minor role-playing session briefly happened afterwards. If I am not mistaken these things were what was being banked on by Bioware that people would want to experience yet I can't cause I either play off peak or its difficult to just sit and spam in Fleet. Also take into consideration while I am in fleet spamming I could be leveling. This is boring. I could do crafting yes but that is watching a timer constantly again this could get boring extremely quickly. Those are why I say Flashpoints should be priority what comes into play next is Population. We obviously do not have the data you do. When you look at it and you see how many people are on at Peak and how many of those are IN a flashpoint vs how many are in group looking for one. Can you even measure that? Why I ask is because look at all those people in fleet shouting 99.9% of them are not using LFG myself included. I tried when the game was new and the population huge but nothing. Why I bring this up is one can the group finder be effective without bein Xserver? Secondly, there has to be incentive to use it. Meaning there needs to be some rewards based solely on just using it. I know the ability to do a Flashpoint should be enough but its not it just isn't. There needs to be something to get players to say CLICK this so you can get in a group. If there is not people just won't use it. It happened in RIFT and it will happen here (yes its an assumption but I am confident). I am very much in favor of a LFG tool but I want one that will encourage people to click even those who might be operation geared to click this button to play. Not only do those players bring their knowledge of the instance to the group they get but they also increasing survivability for the group because they are typically better geared and have a much firmer grasp of game mechanics. Those are my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varteras Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Which is fair. Personally I think Cross-Server is needed. I would rather they did Single-Server and Merge Servers but I know they're not going to do the latter anytime soon, and because they made the mistake of A) Launching without a Group Finder and B)Opened up way too many new servers during the initial launch surge, they're already shot themselves in the foot for Single Server Group Finder solving any problems on servers with low populations. I would like it to be cross-server as well. That comes with its own advantages. Most definitely for servers with low populations. Those poor people who are on servers that I've seen not even 300 people in total online at peak hours will barely notice a difference in what they can run compared to what they have now once a Single Server Group Finder goes live. I'm just not going to tell Bioware to not listen to the other side in some egotistical, hair-brained attempt to completely shut down the other side of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I'm with the Anti-Cross Server group and I'll offer a compromise. Try sever only first, as they are doing, and see if the problem is a lack of people, or a lack of a way to find people. Now that there are 3 daily areas, 4 currently during the Rakghoul Event, 50 are spread over a multiple planets. Throw in the fleet and your own ship and it is no wonder it takes so long to find people. Same goes for leveling players. People of the same level could be spread out over multiple planets depending on their play style. The developers have acknowledged the fact that having a cross server LFG tool removes social pressures to not to be a jerk or ninja or whatever your choice of word. I for one do not to want to see such a pressure removed. Plus, it is even more rewarding to find groups of players on your own servers because you can make new friends and find more players to share your Star Wars adventure with. Which I'll agree with, and it really is a shame that we have to put such pressure on to stop players acting out. Although in all my dungeon runs on WoW cross-server I have to say only about 10% would be what I'd call poor attitudes. And that's not to say I haven't experience some bad attitudes from groups here on my own server anyway! Single Server first, see how it goes, but something needs to be done about those on Low Pop servers. Mergers or free transfers onto Standard pop servers at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smexymage Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think Heroic Missions would suffice. On a busy server there is plenty of activity and its easy to arrange a 4 man flashpoint group because it is pretty well intergrated into the levelling and mission progress. I don't want TOR to go like WOW were you end up with the dregs of the community who ninja loot and talk to you like **** I also think it breeds a very lazy attitude from people and can stop the community from communication and socialising by talking in general chat. SO I think it is a good idea, in a limited capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKaine Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 All of the Above. Polling option for that is a bit unclear TBH with two options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think Heroic Missions would suffice. On a busy server there is plenty of activity and its easy to arrange a 4 man flashpoint group because it is pretty well intergrated into the levelling and mission progress. . So what of those on low population servers? You just don't care enough about them to even spare them a thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeenz Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) While I can understand why people says no to Operations in the Group Finder I have to say I disagree. Getting an Operation group is harder than grouping up for a flashpoint/Heroics. Do you want to do Ops with your guild? Do that. No one is forcing you. There are many causual players out there that may not even bother to spam chat "LFG Ops EC", maybe their guild isn't PvE focused? I think everyone should get the freedom to try out an Ops if they want to, with or without guildmates. "But it will be to easy blablabla" so what? Isn't it about having fun? Bioware, Give people freedom to choose self. People are voting for Operations as you can see. I will however stick with my guild and do PuGs But I'm all in for freedom to the community. Edited April 18, 2012 by xeenz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varteras Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Which I'll agree with, and it really is a shame that we have to put such pressure on to stop players acting out. Although in all my dungeon runs on WoW cross-server I have to say only about 10% would be what I'd call poor attitudes. And that's not to say I haven't experience some bad attitudes from groups here on my own server anyway! Single Server first, see how it goes, but something needs to be done about those on Low Pop servers. Mergers or free transfers onto Standard pop servers at least. Yeah I have to agree here. I played WoW for 5 years and I must say there was not much difference in someone's attitude whether it was a general chat spam that got them a group or an automated system. Most of the the people I ever ran with on LFG were decent people and some of them were amazingly nice. I would say that probably 2 out of every 10 dungeons I ran that way was someone who sounded like they had the brain power and manners of a Jersey Shore cast member. As far as ninjas go I think it was about 1 in every 10 dungeons I ran. Heck you want to talk about ninjas? Yesterday I ran a World Boss marathon on Tatooine for the event. We had around 20 people if not a little more at any given time. Do you have any idea how many of those people rolled need on things they didn't need or couldn't even use? There were even a couple people who acted like they were the most important person in the group and that we should kill these bosses quickly because they have a schedule and don't feel like waiting for these 'other' people to get to the boss site. My own experience with MMO groups is that regardless of whether you have a group finder tool or not... a jerk will be a jerk and a ninja will be a ninja. You want to heavily reduce ninja looting? Make it impossible for someone to roll need on something they cannot use for their own character. Don't like it when someone is being a jerk? Boot them from the group like you normally would and make them sit in the queue again. It's really not that hard and none of the problems with cross-server group finder tools are as dire as people make them out to be. You don't eliminate ninjas or jerks. You're just running into them a little more often. A small price for many of us to pay to actually get into these Flashpoints or even Operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taimedown Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 If bioware makes this LFG tool for same server only, then even on some of the most populated servers would still have an incredibly long que time, especially DPS only players. I have a great community on my server, I love it. But a x-server LFG tool will not hurt it at all. I will still have the oppurtunity to join with members of my server. Using the current method of /gen spam. Rift implemented a same server only LFG tool and it last only a few months before it went x-server, the wait for some classes/roles was just still too long. Why not skip the "save the community" speil, implement the x-server and those worried about thier "community" just don't have to use the tool. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulves Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 The most important thing about a group finder is for people to use it! I'm not sure what the issue is with most people, but they seem to refuse to use the finder app. I'll see people standing in Fleet, BEGGING for a group and when I look in the LFG too, they're not listed. >.< It doesnt matter... i have screamed and been in LFG for literally 6 hours trying to do a flash point. The truth is most servers dont have enough people on or willing to do FP. I have 3 50's on my server the only group I have managed to form was BT. Trust me it was not for lack of trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymaniac Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Flashpoints and Heroics are both equally important to me. Operations I can live without as they may not be as conducive to just random pugging. But FP's and Heroics need to get groups formed much much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramahospitality Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Single server only to me is the way to go. Since it seems now pointless to debate whether to even implement one or not. Single server LFG create a freedom of the game that can be hindered by the sitting in fleet and spamming chat. I am completely against X-server lfgs since I'd rather run with people from my own server who I might know and can ignore if they turn out to be abusing the freedom that the finder allows. This is also one of my main points against LFG tools, which, as I have said before, should never go X server. With low population communities honestly, it is probably better to re roll instead of looking for a X server lfg tool. This would create a more harmonious environment in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaren Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) This needs to be cross-server despite the people complaining about "community." I can make friends outside of an MMO, and have friends irl that play with me. If I'm using the LFG tool it's because they aren't on or don't need to run the same thing I do. It's a group finder, not a friend finder. Let me quickly and efficiently get done with what I need to do, so I can get back to doing the things I want to do with my friends. If queuing with same server people is such an issue to some people, let them advertise on General chat in the fleet. Some people would prefer not to pointlessly waste extra time in a queue. Cross server LFG tool gives people the choice of using it for a quick queue, or advertising in general to maintain their "community." Everyone wins. Edited April 18, 2012 by Imaren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshall Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 If your Finder will be restricted to a single server - simply don't do it. Its pointless. What is the point of Finder that wont be able to form group in bearable time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Why not have the option in the Group Finder tool as to whether you want to queue up in Single Server only or Cross Server? That way both sides can be happy right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varteras Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Flashpoints and Heroics are both equally important to me. Operations I can live without as they may not be as conducive to just random pugging. But FP's and Heroics need to get groups formed much much easier. Actually the LFR in WoW is pretty effective but mostly because the content is made so faceroll that it's not even funny. However, it is a nice way for people to see content they would other wise never lay eyes on. I used to be a hardcore raider but then I stopped because the scheduling and competitive bad attitudes it gave me and almost everyone I knew just got to me. So I still wanted to see these raids but I wanted to be extremely casual about it and done on my time, not someone else's. LFR in WoW was a godsend for people like me and truthfully for those guilds still wanting to be competitive it didn't take anything away from them except the people who were already at their mercy. "You want to ever see this content then you do as I say". Yeah, actually had a raid leader say that to a guildmate once. I gquit shortly after. Unfortunately much the same attitude was found in any guild that had good enough players to clear content. Edited April 18, 2012 by Varteras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekahn Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Versatility is most important. Please just a make a LFM finder that is simple in the fact that: A. I pull up one page with a list of LFMs B. I can pull up the same page, click create group, click what I am looking for and for what mission/play type. DDO has a great and simple LFM system, please check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahzl Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) The most important thing is to RELEASE IT ASAP. PvE is close to dead in this game for most people outside of leveling. Good lord if you ignore anyone, make it this guy. Please do not ever rush out these things, ever. Edited April 18, 2012 by Meluna rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokeface Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 If the group finder could work across your legacy so I can q for FP with my level 50 but play on my alts that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 If the group finder could work across your legacy so I can q for FP with my level 50 but play on my alts that would be cool. So you'd get a notification that a group had been found so you could log out, wait, choose your level 50, wait and then join? Nothing like making people wait around for you huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthehoyden Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Flashpoints and then Heroics. If server population issues aren't dealt with at the same time, please make it possible to queue for multiple fps or heroics so you have more of a chance of getting a group for something on a low pop server. And please make it instant travel to whatever point we're talking about and a return trip as well. (A shuttle has been dispatched to pick you up and run you back.) I have to say I like the single server idea. Cross server is more efficient for getting lots of fps done, but the single server makes it possible to meet other people on your server, friend the ones you like and make note of the ones who aren't worth the time. By getting to meet lots of random people who you still will have contact with you'd be able to pull together enough decent players to do ops, take down world bosses, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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