How may DPS attackers should healer be able to defend against?

[Nmaharg]

Anyone can kite, you don't have to be a healer for that, so we could play Tom & Jerry or Benny Hill all the WZ duration, good suggestion!

 

Oh, but no, there's CC for the damage dealers too, that doesn't work that well in fact...

 

And no, you won't be able to have the least impact if you're just a self-thinking lvl 20 medipac everyone wants to have for him, at most you'll be able to heal your mates AFTER the fight, but then the game is 7vs8.

 

True anyone can kite, but being able to heal yourself at the same time is huge. I've had healers post 1.2 of all classes kite me around for as many as 15 GCD. In that time if their team doesn't kill me they deserve to lose. People need to understand you have to protect your healers. The teams that get this have healers do great the ones that don't end up here QQing.

[JMCH]

True anyone can kite, but being able to heal yourself at the same time is huge. I've had healers post 1.2 of all classes kite me around for as many as 15 GCD.

Sorry, you're so weak you don't deserve to kill a healer if you can't kill one in less than that, kiting or not.

 

First thing is you shouldn't even be the only one on him.

[wessik]

571 expertise is your problem. You need to buy that recruit gear.

 

QFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

571 is terrible, recruit gives 900

[iiell]

Good healers are still tough to kill.

 

Healer+Tank is still a great combo.

 

2 Healers+Tank is ridiculous!

[Mrunlimited]

1? so 1 dps person should be able to negate a healer? sounds like lots of dps are posting here..

 

i think a healer should be able to kite 2 players for at least 20 seconds if all CDs are up. but in this game 1 good mara/sent cant actually take a healer out of the equation and force him to heal himself or die, which is where team work comes in to play.

 

2 dps for healer with no guard

 

3 dps for healer with dedicated tank

[JMCH]

QFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

571 is terrible, recruit gives 900

Since as a healer it rewards 4% more healing, at most, while lowering your primary and secondary stats, I'm not even sure it could make the least difference... Level 49 crafted gear has high chances of being better than recruit as a healer, let alone high grade PvE gear with about 25/25 more than BM each piece.

 

Taking 1800 damage out of a 18k hp pool or 2000 damage out of a 20k hp pool isn't that different, and I'm not even sure the bonus expertise gives to healing has a higher return than your primary stat, excluding crit boost the said stat provides.

[emartell]

I'm gonna go 1 v 1.5. I think 2 is too much and 1 is too little.

 

I feel like heals are on par for where they should be but DPS is still too high making fights too fast. CC/stuns provide too much advantage because of the pace. The only way to know tho is to adjust those numbers and keep "testing"

[Escarrabutxaques]

Actually, I think that healing is fine how it is now. There are some teams on my server (yes, they are 4 man premades) where the healers are damn hard to kill, even when you focus them by 3 dps. Wht? Because:

a)They are always guarded

b)They don't just stand there and "tank" damage, they LOS, cc, knockback and kite attackers when needed

c)Their teammates ALWAYS help them (tanks pulling dpses from the healer, CC them, constantly taunt them), dpses are also helping healers when needed. Since everyone has some kind of cc and root ability, sometimes it becomes "mission imposible" to chase and kill that healer.

 

Sure, as dps im able to 1v1 healers, not to kill them quickly though, especially those merc/trooper healers.. But the problem is you'll never see those healers traveling alone, unguarded. This isn't 1v1 game, in teamplay enviroment healers are pretty tough and hard to kill when their team is helping them.

[iiell]

1 good mara/sent cant actually take a healer out of the equation and force him to heal himself or die, which is where team work comes in to play.

 

1 Mara/Sent should be able to do that considering that is all they can bring to the table.

 

Read the class description of those 2...

[Nmaharg]

Since as a healer it rewards 4% more healing, at most, while lowering your primary and secondary stats, I'm not even sure it could make the least difference... Level 49 crafted gear has high chances of being better than recruit as a healer, let alone high grade PvE gear with about 25/25 more than BM each piece.

 

Taking 1800 damage out of a 18k hp pool or 2000 damage out of a 20k hp pool isn't that different, and I'm not even sure the bonus expertise gives to healing has a higher return than your primary stat, excluding crit boost the said stat provides.

 

Expertise is extremely important now so that you don't get hit so hard.

[Darth_Philar]

A DPS is supposed to kill. A healer is supposed to prevent killing. A 1v1 fight between a healer and a DPS (of equal skill and gear) should never end. The DPS should be completely countered by the Healing and the Healing should be completely countered by the DPS leading to a fight of infinite length.

 

If you are a DPS, your job is not to kill a healer, it is to lock him down in a fight of infinite length until such time as he either flees the fight or reinforcements arrive for one of you.

 

That would be the way to correctly balance DPS and healing, however, that design would not be popular with most DPS players as they all believe themselves to be the illegitimate children of John Rambo and Master Chief.

[namelless]

A DPS is supposed to kill. A healer is supposed to prevent killing. A 1v1 fight between a healer and a DPS (of equal skill and gear) should never end. The DPS should be completely countered by the Healing and the Healing should be completely countered by the DPS leading to a fight of infinite length.

 

If you are a DPS, your job is not to kill a healer, it is to lock him down in a fight of infinite length until such time as he either flees the fight or reinforcements arrive for one of you.

 

That would be the way to correctly balance DPS and healing, however, that design would not be popular with most DPS players as they all believe themselves to be the illegitimate children of John Rambo and Master Chief.

 

I agree, this is the way i think it should work aswell.

 

A lot of DPS players don't seem to understand that they've already won by locking a healer down as a free casting healer contributes more to a match than a DPS who isn't focusing the healer..

[Ancard]

I think the issue of Healer Vs DPS is something quite critical at the moment, before you had some healers going up against 3 DPS and not being killed, that NEEDED to be fixed, but now only a really good healer and even then probably class restricted will they last long enough against 1 Burst DPS class.

 

BW has really negated healing in a big way that a FULL DPS team will always beat an equal level Mixed team.

 

It wasn't the healers fault the dps didn't know how to shut them down. I was able to do that against some players before 1.2 while others could shut down my heals in a 1v1 match. The 3 banging on the one healer really are inexperienced but still, that's was not the healers fault so why penalize healers.

[rileytolman]

Most of the posts here r pretty much spot apart from the 3 dps for 1 heals, that is ridiculous and would be some of the most boring pvp you could every play, i'm sure it would even get boring healers as they stand there tanking 2 dps players and laughing in their face.

 

Its hard to put a pure number on it because their are so many factors. It should be that 1 dps can kill a healer if they are both smart players and both similar geared in about 30(20 gcds) seconds and with extra interrupts and such it would take 2 dps about 12 seconds without help from a team mate. You would be surprised how long 30 seconds is in a wz and you pretty much never get 30 seconds of 1v1 combat even pre 1.2. The problem is everyone gets different ideas because there is and always will b such a huge disparity between skill level, gear level and team level. So dps rages they cant kill a healer coz they're bad then a healer rages dps r op cos they're bad and their team is terrible.

 

Atm I would say the devs moved a step in the right direction but they buffed damage a tad too much (fyi heals didnt get nerfed with expertise by much at all). A small decrease in damage buff or even a reduction on the effects of trauma should pretty much get it exactly right, well in my opinion anyway

Edited April 18, 2012 by rileytolman

[djluxi]

A DPS is supposed to kill. A healer is supposed to prevent killing. A 1v1 fight between a healer and a DPS (of equal skill and gear) should never end. The DPS should be completely countered by the Healing and the Healing should be completely countered by the DPS leading to a fight of infinite length.

 

If you are a DPS, your job is not to kill a healer, it is to lock him down in a fight of infinite length until such time as he either flees the fight or reinforcements arrive for one of you.

 

That would be the way to correctly balance DPS and healing, however, that design would not be popular with most DPS players as they all believe themselves to be the illegitimate children of John Rambo and Master Chief.

 

word... all u guys thinking 1 dps should kill a healer ...pls explain why one would even be a healer then... u cant kill anyone, the second someones stars beating u u cant heal any teammates and seconds later u should be dead. Just eliminate healers, give all classes some self heal and we all dps... simple as that.

otherwise a single dps should never kill a healer, just like a healer should never kill a dps... the fight should be long and if someone dies its due to his incompetence. A healer should be able to kite or tank ( i preffer kite) 2 dps for some time... not too long but enough that some reasonably close backup comes. Now 3+ dps... here we r talking quick healer death unless tanked properly. this way there must be at least some basic degree of coordination to bring that healer down... otherwise a single smart person can completely negate a healer. Now the problem like that becomes when u stack healers... owpvp will never be completly fair, but in wz u could have some sort of diminishing returns, meaning more healers means weaker heals, but then u gotta have dual spec so ppl can change if there is too many heals....just my 2 cents.

[iiell]

A DPS is supposed to kill. A healer is supposed to prevent killing. A 1v1 fight between a healer and a DPS (of equal skill and gear) should never end. The DPS should be completely countered by the Healing and the Healing should be completely countered by the DPS leading to a fight of infinite length.

 

Nice logic, except you are forgetting the fact that healers can do damage as well as heal. Sure, it may not be much, but in the scenario you are trying to use, the "healer" would eventually win because not only could he heal himself, he can do enough damage to eventually kill the DPSer. No 1v1 fight should last indefinitely, except maybe a healer vs healer...lol

[LancelotOC]

Just to summarise what some of you are saying... if two equal geared/skilled DPS classes meet it should end with both near death and one or the other dying. If a DPS meets a solo healer it should end with the healer dying.

 

Can one of you that is suggesting this please elaboarte on why it should be different.

[iiell]

Just to summarise what some of you are saying... if two equal geared/skilled DPS classes meet it should end with both near death and one or the other dying. If a DPS meets a solo healer it should end with the healer dying.

 

Can one of you that is suggesting this please elaboarte on why it should be different.

 

A healer who is doing damage as well as healing can kill 1 DPSer in a 1v1...assuming both are equally geared and skilled.

[Darth_Philar]

Nice logic, except you are forgetting the fact that healers can do damage as well as heal. Sure, it may not be much, but in the scenario you are trying to use, the "healer" would eventually win because not only could he heal himself, he can do enough damage to eventually kill the DPSer. No 1v1 fight should last indefinitely, except maybe a healer vs healer...lol

 

My logic is flawless, you are the one who is using an incorrect assumption. Healers who are doing damage are not being locked down, they are freecasting. If a DPS is attacking a healer and the healer is perfectly balanced for the DPS + interrupts, the healer will have no free GCDs to use damaging abilities but will need to use every single GCD to either heal themselves or flee. That is perfect balance, which is what I was talking about. If the DPS is allowing the healer to both heal himself AND damage him, then either the healer is not balanced or the DPS is just really bad.

 

My point still stands, perfect balance is achieved between DPS and Healing when a 1v1 situation results in a fight of infinite length (assuming equal skill and gear). In a 1v1 situation the following rule applies:

If a DPS can outdamage healing then DPS is OP. If a Healer can outheal DPS then healing is OP.

[Swaggz]

It wasn't the healers fault the dps didn't know how to shut them down. I was able to do that against some players before 1.2 while others could shut down my heals in a 1v1 match. The 3 banging on the one healer really are inexperienced but still, that's was not the healers fault so why penalize healers.

 

^^This right here. I ran both a healing and a DPS spec for pvp/pve depending on what I felt like doing that week. While healing as Bodyguard, yes, I was able to heal through 3-4 people beating on me. This was only possible because not a single one of them would interupt me, stun me, knock me back, etc. All I had to do was los here and there and I kept them all off balance. Now, there has also been plenty of times that 2 DPS was able to burn me down really fast due to the fact of them smartly using stuns/interupts/etc. Even if those 2 didn't burn me down fast enough, they easily took me out of the fight. Hell, I've even had 1 smart DPS take me out of a fight. He didn't kill me, but I wasn't efficiently healing my own team since I had to deal with him. So yeah, blaming the healers for what is usually a DPS problem isn't really the best way to go about it.

 

Granted, I will say that healing might have needed a slight, and I do mean slight, adjustment just to tone it down a bit, but the heavy handed nerf bat that it got was a bit much. Now that 1.2 is pretty much a frag fest full of DPS I would like to see a perk system. You know, something like CoD. I'd love to call in an airstrike during Civil War.../sarcasm

[DNordman]

If the following is true:

A healer should have a decent chance of an even fight with a DPSer or Tank 1 vs 1.

 

Then:

This means that the healer should be able to both deal damage and heal in the fight. If said healer only heals he should be able to survive indefinately against 1 DPSer.

 

However, I wonder if PvP wouldn't be more fun without heals... (I play a healer Sorc btw)

[LancelotOC]

What Philar is saying is true. If a healer can heal himself enough to stop healing and start casting DPS that would mean if he continued just healing himself there would be no way to kill him one on one ever.

 

If you truely want healers to die one one to DPS then their average HPS would have to be less than average DPS. In which case he would never have time to use his DPS abilities because unless this DPS was even higher than a DPS class the action would just lead to him dying faster.

 

No one who is suggesting healers should be soloable seems to know what they want or can describe this imaginary heal class that is both soloable and viable.

[Bocherel]

A healer should "tank" as many DPS as a DPS can kill others DPS.

 

A healer should be able to tank for an infinite amount of time a DPS as long as he cannot kill said DPS, which means two DPS should bring him down.

 

If you give healers the ability to kill then one DPS should have the ability to kill him as well.

[ItGetsAllOver]

If the following is true:

A healer should have a decent chance of an even fight with a DPSer or Tank 1 vs 1.

 

Then:

This means that the healer should be able to both deal damage and heal in the fight. If said healer only heals he should be able to survive indefinately against 1 DPSer.

 

However, I wonder if PvP wouldn't be more fun without heals... (I play a healer Sorc btw)

 

A healer should NOT be able to survive indefinitely against a DPSer. That's insane.

 

Any match-up should have the potential in a 1v1 to go either way as long as both classes are playing to their full potential and using all their abilities.

Edited April 18, 2012 by ItGetsAllOver

[djluxi]

If the following is true:

A healer should have a decent chance of an even fight with a DPSer or Tank 1 vs 1.

 

Then:

This means that the healer should be able to both deal damage and heal in the fight. If said healer only heals he should be able to survive indefinately against 1 DPSer.

 

However, I wonder if PvP wouldn't be more fun without heals... (I play a healer Sorc btw)

 

Well there is a much anticipated sequel coming out this year that claims will do just that... no more healers or tanks...just lots of support. We will see how that turns out, juts like with all new things it has potential to both succeed and fail.