The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[sheeldon]

Just saw this on CVG.

 

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/343845/ea-poor-battlefield-3-old-republic-performance-result-in-layoffs/

 

"and Star Wars: The Old Republic, which received similar treatment and has supposedly already seen subscription numbers decline, are big contributing factors to the cuts."

 

http://startupgrind.com/2012/04/exclusive-electronic-arts-set-to-lay-off-500-employees/

This one is a bit more in depth.

 

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-02-02/markets/31029084_1_ea-shares-earnings-report-unit-sales

This seems to be more focused on the stock from EA and seems to lean both ways.

 

It seems EA have had a poor financial year due to BF3 and SWTOR.

 

I have found this on several other sites, it seems to be reliable.

 

I don't want to start a flame war or an "I told you so" thread. Instead, I was wondering what people would like to see to maybe improve the player base.

I am one of the people that is on the fence, I have around 90 days or so left on my sub but am, as of yet, not convinced to renew it.

Following the new "world event" (which I though was good mostly) maybe this is the way forward?

So lets hear it, what would it take (for those that aren't sure or maybe have already cancelled) to bring you back?

For those that are already commited, what more things would you like improved or added?

 

Lets try and keep it on track and pleasant ok?

 

Ok, weigh in.

swtor just isent good it might have been 8 years ago but people r over wow now we wanted a new game and bioware did the complete opisite

[DarthVindictus]

I cant wait to see the gw2 forums cos i sure am gonna have a nosey on there, cos peeps are all shouting but the questing system rocks and we get one world event were you have to discover the quests and everyone is lost lol, imagine that on full scale

 

It's not hard to find events, there's another type of task called renown hearts that are basically in the vicinity of where events are.. so if you're doing a heart, you'll be aware of any nearby events starting. Sometimes you'll find yourself just following random people and you'll have this impromptu krewe going and just stumble on events though, that's the best.

[Azumio]

Someone help me here, IF SWTOR is bleeding subs, this would mean they bleeding cash to right?

 

So when they give a free month to existing customers, they would be throwing 1 month of cash flow out the window to right?

 

Bad Business that would be...... NOW lets say....

 

If the game was healthy and making cash then lets say they can afford to blow off 1 month of revenue to to existing customer base.... <==== I can believe this much more then they are losing subs so they give a free month and lose all that cash. Thoughts?

 

It's all about the bottom line. They have to make an official Subscriber number coming up soon. Giving people free game-time is a way for them to artificially enlarge their overall Sub number for the investor call.

 

You'll see if this works if they skip it again, like they already did once.

 

Short-term loss right now for hopeful long-term resurgence in the future.

 

Also, regarding people saying Guild Wars 2 sucks (Never seen anyone go into depth about it, but whatever) what people don't understand is that even if all those games do suck (MoP, Guild Wars 2, Secret World, Archage, TERA, Diablo 3, etc.) people are still going to play them over this game, because SWTOR already does suck. People are more likely to flock to the fresh and new than stick with the old and stale, which is a level SWTOR hits super fast.

 

In those games cases, you have the potential for suck. SWTOR fulfilled it's potential for suck. It's no longer a guessing game.

 

Personally, I pre-purchased GW2 and I'm fine with that. If it sucks, it sucks. It's $60 which is not even close to the $200 SWTOR cost me.

 

I wish you guys the best of luck, I really do. You are in for some very rough times in this game.

 

There isn't anything they can do to fix it. This game is horribly designed at the core. It's like a renovation (Sorry, currently watching a Renovation show ), sometimes you just gotta tear down everything and rebuild it from scratch to make it right. They will never rebuild this game.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Azumio

[Shingara]

It's not hard to find events, there's another type of task called renown hearts that are basically in the vicinity of where events are.. so if you're doing a heart, you'll be aware of any nearby events starting. Sometimes you'll find yourself just following random people and you'll have this impromptu krewe going and just stumble on events though, that's the best.

 

well this little thing had goto tat and look in the dune sea and people still got lost and most of them followed people who looked like they knew where they were going and they all got lost together.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Shingara

[Blistrich]

All mmos decline. Few die.

 

SWG died to make room for TOR. It was an exception.

 

EQ, Conan, DAoC, M59, LOTRO and DDO? All still alive despite having small populations.

 

Read this to understand fully how the cycle of population declines and shifts is universal.

 

That article is one of the best on the subject.

[Kubernetic]

It's all about the bottom line. They have to make an official Subscriber number coming up soon. Giving people free game-time is a way for them to artificially enlarge their overall Sub number for the investor call.

 

You'll see if this works if they skip it again, like they already did once.

 

Short-term loss right now for hopeful long-term resurgence in the future.

 

Also, regarding people saying Guild Wars 2 sucks (Never seen anyone go into depth about it, but whatever) what people don't understand is that even if all those games do suck (MoP, Guild Wars 2, Secret World, Archage, TERA, Diablo 3, etc.) people are still going to play them over this game, because SWTOR already does suck. People are more likely to flock to the fresh and new than stick with the old and stale, which is a level SWTOR hits super fast.

 

In those games cases, you have the potential for suck. SWTOR fulfilled it's potential for suck. It's no longer a guessing game.

 

Personally, I pre-purchased GW2 and I'm fine with that. If it sucks, it sucks. It's $60 which is not even close to the $200 SWTOR cost me.

 

I wish you guys the best of luck, I really do. You are in for some very rough times in this game.

 

There isn't anything they can do to fix it. This game is horribly designed at the core. It's like a renovation (Sorry, currently watching a Renovation show ), sometimes you just gotta tear down everything and rebuild it from scratch to make it right. They will never rebuild this game.

 

Excuse me, but do you have any idea how financial analysts calls work? Have you ever taken part in one, or multiple calls?

 

To start with, EA's Q1 just started 17 days ago. Giving a free month out at any time during the next 30 days is NOT going to pad the subscription numbers for an analyst's call that will be held 2 months and 13 days from now.

 

Do the math. Whatever they do, even if they give the free 30 days within the next 30 days, it's going to expire by the end of the period, some 13 days or more before the end of Q1, and the analyst's call will be after that.

 

They aren't going to lie and give a subscription number from 13 days prior to the end of Q1. They are going to give a subscription number that is current as of the end of Q1. Second, any financial analyst worth their salt (which isn't saying much) is going to be doing at least a LITTLE research and will know about the free month, and they are going to take whatever number EA gives (if they are truly that interested at all) and inquire during the Q&A session after the initial monologue how many of those subscriptions are still on the free month.

 

Analysts don't just sit there on these calls and blindly accept what the speaker tells them. They jot down notes, and then during the Q&A session, drill down and ask further questions as to why things might have been done in certain ways, for more details in certain areas, etc.

 

As for the rest, I suspect your game analysis skills are about as accurate and comprehensive as your analyst call skills. But good luck in GW2! Wow, mages, rogues, warriors, swords, axes, sounds fun!

Edited April 17, 2012 by Kubernetic

[Msicr]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/09/the-daily-grind-when-do-you-consider-a-game-to-be-dying/

 

Everybodies game is dying according to the internet

 

This

[oMGitsree]

RUN RUN AWAY! It's the end of the universe... No wait it's not. What I think is disconcerting about the articles is that all have one underlying theme: EA is a bad, bad company. Bad companies can make great games, but it is clear that they are doing something wrong to disillusion customers. EA is trying through subscription gifts and are busting its butt to keep the higher level players.

 

What it needs to do:

 

More content on the PVE side, not just FP, but new planets and new quests.

New companions.

New romance options

Stop alienating the PVP players both the casual PVPer and the hardcore. This last patch seemed to enforce dd and push back all other classes.

Find the proper balance before nerfing. Grab high level players and allow them to use their high level characters to test things out before going live.

Listen to the forum feedback, ALOT of people were issuing cries of warnings to everyone. They should have stepped back to look at that feedback, instead of the one person defending it.

Egos need to get in check. The developer isn't always right.

 

What we need to do:

Be patient. Programming takes time.

Provide effective feedback. DOn't scream that you are going to quit, explain how things are wrong. Logical layouts, which I have seen many, provide better conversation and feedback, then vitriol ever will.

When they do something right: LET THEM KNOW. This way we get more of what we want and less of yuck.

Remember the needs of everyone, instead of just the one group. IMps, Pubs, Pve, pvpers, casual gamers, hardcore gamers all have different needs. Respect each patch, even if it has nothing to do with you. Your faction is not the center of the universe. People have likes and dislikes, about this game.

Egos need to get in check. We aren't always right.

[GalacticKegger]

LOL. SWTOR is not in decline and does not need saving. What it does need is for Bioware to keep doing what they are doing. I have a sneaking suspicion (read: a hunch) that full space flight & pod/speeder racing will eventually become a reality in TOR. LA already has Rebel Assault, Starfighter and Episode Racer on their resume; and EA has Earth & Beyond and Wing Commander as well. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the game as it is and look forward to increased stability with more end game content. Edited April 17, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[SliceAntilles]

I'm not sure if it even matters. I've long ago become jaded about the very concept of there ever being that one great MMO that I'll play for years. New games are fun and exciting. Eventually, the fun wears thin, and continuing to play becomes a chore. That's when you decide for yourself just how much Skinner's Box gameplay you can take before you just let it go, and switch to something new where you'll have fun again, at least for a while.

 

There'll always be hangers on, naturally. Star Wars fans alone will probably sustain at least one server, if not two or three, for many years to come. So the game won't go anywhere, but most of us will move on sooner or later.

[DarthVindictus]

LOL. SWTOR is not in decline and does not need saving. What it does need is for Bioware to keep doing what they are doing. I have a sneaking suspicion (read: a hunch) that full space flight & pod/speeder racing will eventually become a reality in TOR. LA already has Rebel Assault, Starfighter and Episode Racer on their resume; and EA has Earth & Beyond and Wing Commander as well. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the game as it is and look forward to increased stability with more end game content.

 

How's it feel with your head in the sand?

 

The population HAS declined, every planet after the first two decreases steadily in population until you reach the Act 2 planets and beyond, in which case they become ghost towns with less than 3 dozen people even on the planets where dailies are run, and this is on a "heavy" population server during prime time. There's maybe 200 people on the fleet, and only 1-2 groups worth of people in each flash point at any given time.. you look around and think "where are all the people?".

 

There's too many servers for the current population level, people are rerolling to a few servers and overcrowding a chosen few servers, which is not healthy.

 

No, Bioware can't just "keep doing what they're doing" They need to do some controlled server merges, and find ways to encourage a more cohesive community on each server. MMO's become boring when there's no cohesive server community and areas are ghost towns. MMO's are made or broken by that sense that they are "Massively Multiplayer".

[Knockerz]

I would wait until the investor first quarter report. I'm also curious to see wow's quarter report since the forth quarter ended before swtor went live. Even if swtor isn't doing as expect, all major mmorpg are in decline it appears. As I said I would just wait until the first quarter and see how other mmorpg's are doing in comparison. I'm hoping wow loses a huge amount of players

 

 

For BF3, I know a lot of players in Germany who refuse to buy the pc version over origin fiasco. I my self didn't buy for that very reason. It's EA own fault for playing hardball and they got what they deserve.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Knockerz

[Oscibi]

LOL. SWTOR is not in decline and does not need saving. What it does need is for Bioware to keep doing what they are doing. I have a sneaking suspicion (read: a hunch) that full space flight & pod/speeder racing will eventually become a reality in TOR. LA already has Rebel Assault, Starfighter and Episode Racer on their resume; and EA has Earth & Beyond and Wing Commander as well. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the game as it is and look forward to increased stability with more end game content.

 

So the population is the same as it was. and altho those Servers n the selection screen that say "light" wth 1 heavy, and 2-3 standard @ peak time

 

Rather then 4 with ques. the rest heavy. and the game isnt in decline?

 

MMO's needs subs ->money

[TonyIommi]

So the population is the same as it was. and altho those Servers n the selection screen that say "light" wth 1 heavy, and 2-3 standard @ peak time

 

Rather then 4 with ques. the rest heavy. and the game isnt in decline?

 

MMO's needs subs ->money

 

Last night in addition to the usual fatman full que, Harbinger was also full. With 4 or servers registering heavy and 1 very heavy. Game shipped with to many servers and is not indiactive of any decline or gain. Nice try though.

[DarthVindictus]

I would wait until the investor first quarter report. I'm also curious to see wow's quarter report since the forth quarter ended before swtor went live. Even if swtor isn't doing as expect, all major mmorpg are in decline it appears. As I said I would just wait until the first quarter and see how other mmorpg's are doing in comparison. I'm hoping wow loses a huge amount of players

 

 

For BF3, I know a lot of players in Germany who refuse to buy the pc version over origin fiasco. I my self didn't buy for that very reason. It's EA own fault for playing hardball and they got what they deserve.

 

Origin is the reason I refused to buy Battlefield 3 or Mass Effect 3 (on PC anyway). I won't touch it. Not after I saw screenshots of it scanning through a person's tax software.

[DarthVindictus]

Last night in addition to the usual fatman full que, Harbinger was also full. With 4 or servers registering heavy and 1 very heavy. Game shipped with to many servers and is not indiactive of any decline or gain. Nice try though.

 

The too many servers is a bad problem though things are spread too much out. Server merges need to happen to have it so that people are actually able to play with other people, rather than ghost towns where you might not see a single other player for hours.

[CrunkShizzle]

Last night in addition to the usual fatman full que, Harbinger was also full. With 4 or servers registering heavy and 1 very heavy. Game shipped with to many servers and is not indiactive of any decline or gain. Nice try though.

 

/golfclap

 

so all the high pop servers are full,what about the other servers.all the high pop servers could be full,but that doesnt matter when the rest of the servers are ghost towns

 

yeah,bioware might of shipped the game with to many servers.but that doesnt mean they could of merged ones already

[TonyIommi]

/golfclap

 

so all the high pop servers are full,what about the other servers.all the high pop servers could be full,but that doesnt matter when the rest of the servers are ghost towns

 

yeah,bioware might of shipped the game with to many servers.but that doesnt mean they could of merged ones already

 

If you actually read my post I was quoting another user who had a very negative framing. BW can and should merge servers asap I agree. The only reason I seem to hear from people is that trolls won't like it, or people will take it as a sign of the games decline. It's nothing of the sort and we shouldn't allow misconceptions to stop what is the correct thing to do.

[AkemManah]

/golfclap

 

so all the high pop servers are full,what about the other servers.all the high pop servers could be full,but that doesnt matter when the rest of the servers are ghost towns

 

yeah,bioware might of shipped the game with to many servers.but that doesnt mean they could of merged ones already

 

How many times/threads have there been, they are working on server mergers to consolidate the player base, they over-adjusted because of how whiny the player base was about queue's.

 

I am not saying there hasn't been sub decline but there is after every mmo release while people try out new games. Then usually the subs increase for large content patches, then decline once content is cleared, rinse, repeat.

 

This game is not dying, it is not going anywhere. It may not reach 5 million subs but all you doomsdayers out there talking about sinking ships are idiots. The name Star Wars alone probably keeps 250k subbed if not more, which is successful, and even if there is a decline we aren't anywhere near as low as that 250k number. (Wild speculation on my part about how many play just because it is Star Wars), but regardless, this game won't see less than 500k subs anytime soon, and though it's not equivalent to the numbers WoW reached in its prime nor the home run Bioware hoped for, it isn't bad. And it is sure as heck enough for me to play and have fun.

[Ansultares]

It's all about the bottom line. They have to make an official Subscriber number coming up soon. Giving people free game-time is a way for them to artificially enlarge their overall Sub number for the investor call.

This.

 

They want to keep me as a customer, bring back 1 time advanced class switch like in beta and reward people for battle grounds, win or lose, not everyone can be leet! It kind of defeats the purpose of pvp if the crap group doesn't win and the strong group constantly wins pretty soon it will be the same 30 people playing against each other in their epic gear!

They could split pre-made and solo queues, but I doubt they'd have the courage to do so. Edited April 17, 2012 by Ansultares

[GalacticKegger]

So the population is the same as it was. and altho those Servers n the selection screen that say "light" wth 1 heavy, and 2-3 standard @ peak time

 

Rather then 4 with ques. the rest heavy. and the game isnt in decline?

 

MMO's needs subs ->money

I personally give zero credence to the server status levels. My main server (Mask of Nihilus) had crowds everywhere my toon went and was listed as Standard. Then a couple days later it would be pretty much the same crowdedness (if that's a word) and the server was listed as Heavy. Like everyone else in this forum all I have to go by is what I experience in game. Based on my experience with Mask as well as Lord Ieldis (my solo alt server) the game isn't in decline. In fact Mask of Nihilus has had more people online more consistently since 1.2 than it did at launch - and it's a first day early access server. Edited April 17, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[raspberrytwinkle]

They really should just merge some servers, let them rest for 30 days and then open up (free) transfers. It would probably bring some people back who ended up on very low pop servers and ended up quitting because there were 15 people in Fleet every night at prime time.

[Patsilver]

Free Tauntaun pets coming soon!!!

If that's not a good enough reason to stay subbed then there isn't one.

[RikHar]

Delete this tiresome "Can game be saved" thread.

[Parthis]

You can only go by what you can see; I cancelled my subscription tonight. Over the past week sodid the majority of my guild (a guild that has been together for years across many games). That's ~25 people right there all leaving for the same reasons. Adding 30 days free to accounts if sub'd 6 days after the renewal period is a really dirty, underhanded way of holding onto people.

 

If the overall sub numbers are staying at similar levels I promise you this; it's because there are enough new subs to counter the people cancelling... and make no mistake, people are cancelling their subs.

 

That's not healthy; that's churn.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Parthis