The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[Skidrowbro]

About that whole "no one will miss you" thing. Next time you notice your server is a ghost town, don't complain about it.

 

Which is why i didn't pick an empty server herp derp

 

About less than a year later for Rift, SWTOR has been up for 5 months. How many Heavy or Very Heavy servers do you see during prime time? I'm counting like 5, out of how many? After 5 months?

 

Hmmm Rift started with less players at launch than SWTOR has now. And again as many other people have said, there was already enough forum QQ about not enough servers and guess what, they added more.

[Toxen]

You can't "blow through" WvWvW.. that alone is worth the purchase cost of GW2.

 

There are 8 class storylines in SWTOR, and they largely are unaffected by any decisions you make. Yes, you can save someone or let them die but even if you save them, they'll likely never show up again anyway, maybe you'll get an Email. The effect of that decision is minimal. I can think of only a few key decisions that had any effect whatsoever aside from companion affection or morality points.

 

GW2 has 3 main storylines per race (5 races, that's 15 main stories, potentially more if the other choices alter them to a large extent), that are altered by a few other decisions in your character Bio (haven't figured out to what extent yet), along with branching choices that are NOT based on a morality system, IE my Ash Legion Charr Thief had a story somewhat like the Imperial Agent line, I infiltrated a base in disguise discovered the enemy's plans, and freed a prisoner from the Blood Legion. I questioned him and he said his entire warband was wiped out. So I had a chance to recruit him or let him go become a Gladium (a Charr without a Warband, which is shameful in their culture), to recruit him I had to pass a speech check, charm, ferocity or dignity, which you can fail. Now you don't recruit him as a companion (those don't exist, thankfully), but every time you go back to your home instance, he is there, small change, but a person you saved is permanently there, rather than just a mail. Then I told of the enemy's plans to my superiors, and had to make a choice.. which assassination target would I protect? The other would be protected by a Rookie with no field experience. I didn't finish this one yet but I'm predicting that I will succeed and he will fail, and it will branch my story.

 

There's also the fact that for at least up to level 30 (we haven't seen higher level zones yet) there are multiple areas to level up in. This is compared to SWTOR's linear level progression.

 

Explorable mode dungeons as well, 8 base story mode dungeons, which you go through once, after that, when you go through them there are say, a way you can knock a hole through a wall and discover a new catacombs system with different bosses (and much much harder than the story mode), there are multiple explorable versions of each dungeon.

 

So I see GW2 taking longer than a few weeks.

 

If I wasn't sold already on GW2 then I certainly am now. A few weeks ago I never gave it any thought. But after researching it a while, I'm convinced that the devs of that game actually know what they're doing. They are giving the people what they want, giving them what they didn't know they wanted, and not forcing what they didn't want down their throats. I just hope I am not disappointed like I was with swtor.

 

I'll see u in the Beta next Friday, my friend:)

[DarthVindictus]

I still don't understand why alot of people are raving about GW2 like its already the only game in the world left to play... Yes videos, press releases content leaks can all hint to what the game will be like but that doesn't mean you've played it and it doesn't mean it's exactly what you're expecting.

 

Now this is the same for SWTOR I was expecting something totally different and new and whilst there was certainly different aspects of the game that made it "new" such as the storyline in the long run it hasn't turned out exactly how I expected it to. Thats not to say i'm not enjoying it.

 

We will see when GW2 is released if it is the "game to end all games" but as with just about anything released these days I personally don't think it will live up to the expectations some people have for it.

 

Oh and yeah, Star Wars is the main reason I play this game

 

I snuck in on a stress test and played GW2 last Friday.

 

It was exactly what I was expecting with a few pleasant surprises to boot.

[Zsavooz]

you'll be happy to know Tera's open beta started today. My first looksy showed a built in LFG tool... go figure!

[Tickdoff-Tank]

The more research I do on GW2 the more awful it sounds. I hope all of you enjoy it, and I know a large number of people will, but I would rather shove my hand in a blender for 2 hours than install that garbage on my computer.

[Tristal]

I snuck in on a stress test and played GW2 last Friday.

 

It was exactly what I was expecting with a few pleasant surprises to boot.

 

Well obviously i'll give it a chance, is there another beta?

[DarthVindictus]

Well obviously i'll give it a chance, is there another beta?

 

Yeah actually the first beta for people who pre-purchased the game starts next Friday.

 

Seems kind of risky purchasing a game in full before release, I realize, but, get to participate in weekend betas guaranteed that way, and you get a 3 day head start. So.. I went for it. Understandable if people want to wait for actual release though.

[Skidrowbro]

you'll be happy to know Tera's open beta started today. My first looksy showed a built in LFG tool... go figure!

 

Why not. It's need a playerbase to start with and i'm sure all the coddled players who need the game developers to form their groups for them will flock to it.

[Tsaritsin]

Considering that Companions play such a large role in SWTOR, I decided to ask Mako whether things can get any worse,

 

But, Mako it would seem has thrown a tantrum, turns out that the Earings and Implants that I ger her for Christmas are fakes, just my luck, that guy swore they were gold with spangly stats, flippin heck.......

 

So, I took advantage of 1.2 and Spam Gifted her for about 3 hours, she wasnt having any of it,

 

She stormed out the room, slamming doors, full blown hissy fit,

 

Last thing I heard was -

 

"You can flippin well sleep on the sofa with that green glow and spooky eye crap going on"

 

So I guess it's not a good time for questions,

 

Companions eh, can't live with them, can't live without them.........

 

[DarthVindictus]

Why not. It's need a playerbase to start with and i'm sure all the coddled players who need the game developers to form their groups for them will flock to it.

 

Yes because standing around for hours spamming LF1M need healer.... is SO much fun.

[Barrakudah]

The sky is falling!

 

Seriously though, the MMO genre has been on the decline for years. Today's players are fickle and require insurmountable loads of new and innovating content on a regular basis to be satisfied. The problem is there hasn't been a revolution in the genre since ....I hate to say it....World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft broke out of the previous generation of MMO by giving players a game that you could pick up easily and see content at a rather quick pace. Old staple MMOs (ie EverQuest, EverQuest II, UO, and DAoC) required many months of dedicated play to achieve what now can be had in WoW era games in days or weeks. As a result of WoW's success, newer games are now require to release new content and features at an exponential rate. Developing new content and features require a lot of money and manpower to be successful. To have the money you must keep current subscribers and lure in new players. Unfortunately this in of itself is a highly daunting task in todays MMO market. The fate of an MMO strictly lies within the players hands. If you enjoy a game, even slightly, support it. If you do not then expect it to fall into MMO purgatory.

 

TL:DR: It can be saved if players support it.

[Tristal]

I think this thread may have gotten off topic...

 

Nevermind I'm mistaken, it varies.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Tristal

[owlinspace]

what is up with all this "you should leave this game NOW cause this game will fail"!?

 

I like this game, I'm not bored and have pretty much cleared all pve content. so **** and let me stay and play the game.. damn, some people are just trolling and they don't even know it.. that's metatrolling.

[Oofpez]

you'll be happy to know Tera's open beta started today. My first looksy showed a built in LFG tool... go figure!

 

*cough* game has been out for more than a year *cough*

 

(still going to try it out though.)

 

And also, to the WvWvW lovers out there... what happens when there is a world imbalance (because you know it's going to happen) I wonder what the QQ on the forums will be about.... sounds like a rehash of Illum.

[ForRealDoh]

I really want to like this game , I really do. My question is , if your going to take the ideas from other MMO's , why didn't BW take any of the good ones? The LFG system is archaic , the guild level system was great in Warhammer , the perk system ect.. I'm not saying that taking from another game is bad , its part of a collective creative process like most artforms and/or mediums , I feel like I'm playing KoToR 3 with multiplayer emements , not a true MMO. If you want to compete , take the GOOD ideas from past games and fire the guy that designed the armor sets n this game , hes terrible....

[Redial]

I have not read the 62 pages of this thread, but i thought just in the unlikely event someone wades through it for coherent posts, i would share why i *might* cancel.

 

I love this game. It is a great deal of fun. I have 3 50s, and working on a fourth. The problem is there does not seem to be a great deal of endgame. This is probably not the games fault, maybe its the player base!. But i am bored of pvp so i go on the fleet once a day and spam

 

"LFG any HM, can do any role dps/tank/heals!" and i often logout after a half an hour of no responses. I am also older and have less time that i was in "other MMOs" So sometimes i have 2 hours to spare so i think ill try to log for the slight possiblility of a quick HM. Oh, fatman has a 1 hour queue? ( rolled first day of EA so i didnt know what i was getting into) And saying reroll and leave 3 toons behind is not fun.

 

Anyway, i hope this game pulls through. I see awesome things going on with another warzone and world events. But i cant see them because i dont have time to wait in the Q. I might unsub and resub after a couple months of D3. havent decided yet. I have nothing to flame, no devs to blame. Im very impressed with the game as a whole, but it is what it is.

[Oofpez]

I have not read the 62 pages of this thread, but i thought just in the unlikely event someone wades through it for coherent posts, i would share why i *might* cancel.

 

I love this game. It is a great deal of fun. I have 3 50s, and working on a fourth. The problem is there does not seem to be a great deal of endgame. This is probably not the games fault, maybe its the player base!. But i am bored of pvp so i go on the fleet once a day and spam

 

"LFG any HM, can do any role dps/tank/heals!" and i often logout after a half an hour of no responses. I am also older and have less time that i was in "other MMOs" So sometimes i have 2 hours to spare so i think ill try to log for the slight possiblility of a quick HM. Oh, fatman has a 1 hour queue? ( rolled first day of EA so i didnt know what i was getting into) And saying reroll and leave 3 toons behind is not fun.

 

Anyway, i hope this game pulls through. I see awesome things going on with another warzone and world events. But i cant see them because i dont have time to wait in the Q. I might unsub and resub after a couple months of D3. havent decided yet. I have nothing to flame, no devs to blame. Im very impressed with the game as a whole, but it is what it is.

 

*points to Jame's sticky thread* They're working on a LFG tool. One thing I've seen with a lot of players is that they don't actively search for groups. Most just want to press a button, and do all the work for them. Not saying that it's all the players, but from what I have experienced (and it's very limited; what you expect me to know everyone?) that's how many players act, especially when it's not necessary to complete.

[MWidowmaker]

the problem has a lot of factors

1-the MMO market is saturated, you cant throw a stick without seeing another MMO being released nowadays, people who play MMOs are so spread out over a lot of games

 

2-there will always be people who have to try out the latest thing, then consume the content and move on to the next thing, they will never be long term players of anything because nothing really satisfies them

 

3-the economy is still in the toilet, so people have less disposable income

 

4-haters will hate no matter what, and there will be nothing you can do or say that will even allow them a civil discussion, whether it be people who just hate EA, or people who hate BioWare, or people who hate the game for whatever reason, or hate life itself.... they will always find reasons to spew hate and venom at anyone who doesn't share their views

[Starglide]

They have been listening to the community, and that's the problem. The community wanted more servers, so they put more up. There were people whining about content, so they shovel out content. UI complaints? They shove out UI things. Legacy changes are supposedly in the works. Guild banks? Yep. Ranked warzones? Coming soon.

 

What have they been ignoring the community about?

 

Read my other posts. They have been ignoring us beta testers (original beta) since we had the chance to say anything. Most of the problems with the game that exist today were in the game 6-7 months before launch.

 

I was asked to talk about the game in person in NYC with several other people. When I did, all of us collectively voted the game a 5 - 6 out of 10. We told them all the problems with the game and not one of them were addressed. Most of us there were hardcore, experienced players with some casuals as well.

 

Its amazing how many things people agree on when they discuss it in person. A lot of the people who jump at the chance to disagree with vital recommendations (proper combat logs, good LFG system, better raid utility, open source UI), do not give the points a proper listen or understanding. The fact that the combat log thread I created went on for thousands of posts with inexperienced players screamed in agony against it when they couldn't properly defend their point of view and BioWare continue not to listen not even responding one post in the thread.

 

Go to a WoW forum and compare the amounts of developer posts. BioWare has failed to listen to the community. To shorten it, here is a list:

 

Failed to be as active as needed on the forums (sorry, simply stating in videos that you promise you're listening doesn't cut it)

Failed to address issues presented almost a YEAR before launch

Failed to listen to priority solutions (fans saying they don't care about story focus on gameplay)

Failed to deliver proper customer support/in-game support

 

I can go on further than that, but do not let the pompous responses from Stephen Reid fool you. They didn't listen and he can say whatever he wants about developers not responding as much because they do not want to address the same issues more than once without moving onto new topics. But please, where are these new topics that were addressed? They don't exist.

 

Statements that 1.2 will be the biggest patch in MMO history... a joke. Statements (old article) that gamers really do not know what they want.... a joke. Statements that this game will be taking from WoW... a joke.

 

Yes, people forget about that. One of the doctors released a statement that gamers do not know what they want in a game. During the development of this game, the attitude the entire staff has had towards the community has been that we do not know what is good for the game. That is the case for a lot of people, but after looking at the Guild Summit and the kinds of people that were poking at advice and that were chosen is ridiculous. Not to mention the unbiased census from that summit was that they only chose to showcase material and shrugged a lot of valuable suggestions off.

 

Fact of the matter is, everything valuable someone brought up they wanted in game, got the same generic response that it would be in the title... eventually. Their priority system has been trash since day one focusing on emotes on vehicles (which still don't work). All they did was market how their MMO would have story. People constantly said that was cool, but they wanted to see gameplay. All through development all we heard was STORY STORY STORY... while everyone BEGGED for combat news and commented on it. AND NOTHING WAS DONE.

 

Everyone raved about the leveling, all BioWare SHOWED during development was LEVELING. Their lack of focus in end-game not only shows their inexperience since so many titles failed due to it, but it also shows how they DID NOT LISTEN. Everyone begged to see end game and real content, but STORY was all we got. Even then, the story isn't that good. 2-3 classes are OKAY but BioWare simply isn't the great developer everyone thinks they are.

 

Give Blizzard the IP, sure you'll miss the reason you are doing a quest here and there, but at least there will a focus on PLAYING and not LISTENING. Seriously, SWTOR is like a pop-up book. I wanted an MMO.

[JeramieCrowe]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/09/the-daily-grind-when-do-you-consider-a-game-to-be-dying/

 

Everybodies game is dying according to the internet

 

QFT!! Love that article! So true! Hahahah!

 

The game isnt' dying. What people are seeing on the servers isn't people leaving, is less people playing concurrently. It's the typical (as in every single MMO ever made) "launch surge/dropoff" of playtime that gives the illusion of loss of subs.

 

Incidentally, the number of subs for TOR has only been increasing, not declining.

[Vlacke]

QFT!! Love that article! So true! Hahahah!

 

The game isnt' dying. What people are seeing on the servers isn't people leaving, is less people playing concurrently. It's the typical (as in every single MMO ever made) "launch surge/dropoff" of playtime that gives the illusion of loss of subs.

 

Incidentally, the number of subs for TOR has only been increasing, not declining.

 

Agreed.

This game won't "die" anytime soon simply because this is one fantastic game overall, and will improve as the time passes.

[SeloDaoC]

text.

 

Very nice, one of the post posts on the entire forum, and the exact same thing i said during alpha when trying my friends alphatest

 

he went to the London meeting and i told him to mention all the flawsi saw, like stale worlds, same enemies on every planet, instanced based skirmish pvp not beeing the way to go, lack of gameplay and to much focus on talking npcs etc.

 

Right from the start when i saw videos with Stephen Reid i was thinking "What a douchebag!"

 

And i also read that article with "players dont know what they want" ********. Thats the most stupid viewpoint you can have as a gamedesigner and kills your game before its even released. Every game that have ignored their playerbase have failed. AoC, Aion, Rift and others, and now SWToR.

All the gamees that have lived for a long time have an active staff on the forums, talking with their players regularly.

Edited April 20, 2012 by SeloDaoC

[ForRealDoh]

I'm not hopping on the "this game is dying" train , the game is new and theres room for improvement...that said , I still want the dude that designed the endgame armor for Sages to be fired , the goal is to look COOLER when you progress through content ,and not look like you just jumped out of a forest living on berries and nuts for 13 years. Edited April 20, 2012 by ForRealDoh

[Starglide]

QFT!! Love that article! So true! Hahahah!

 

The game isnt' dying. What people are seeing on the servers isn't people leaving, is less people playing concurrently. It's the typical (as in every single MMO ever made) "launch surge/dropoff" of playtime that gives the illusion of loss of subs.

 

Incidentally, the number of subs for TOR has only been increasing, not declining.

 

Read the article, not the first post that says what you want to hear.

[Ezzem]

What people are looking for in an MMO doesnt exist after you have played one before. Think back to when you first stepped into your first MMO, the feeling that youre apart of something massive and you get sucked into the universe right away.

 

That feeling just doesnt exist anymore if youve played MMO for a while. There isnt enough fresh blood to come in after WoW people got theyr dose of MMO. Alot of people try out new MMO's that are coming out to look for the "first MMO experience again" but it just isnt there.

 

The reason WoW is still 10million+ is just because it has a community, people that have played with eachother for a long time becoming good friends and wont quit because of theyr friends/guildies. SWTOR doesnt have that yet, thus its easy to leave.

 

I think that unless MMOs are put on hold for a good 4-5 years, we will never see another giant like WoW again. The market is filled up.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Ezzem