Jiskafet Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Macros are only considered cheating by people who are unable to use them. I love how there is always opposition against things that actually makes the game more challenging. UI mods and macros in many cases make PvP more challenging because they bring about a whole another level of depth. No thats just wrong... use of macro's in mmo's has been considered a form of cheating for a long long time by any serious gamer. Only, once enough people started using them over the years it suddenly became acceptable for a wide variety of excuses and unfortunately more and more devs started to cave in and added ingame features to facilitate macro-ing and modding. Personally I feel this has just increased the problem we are having with botfarms /goldsellers as macro's & mods heavily facilitate botting. I don't want to play against a automated set of instructions, I got single player games for that. The bottom line is that if any 3rd party program; and an (advanced) macro is no much different imo: you wrote or more likely googled it; gives you an advantage over any other player that does not use it in pvp combat (or leveling wise) then that IS considered cheating. When you start allowing macro's it no longer becomes about who has the best skill in the game but basically about who is the better programmer or who used the best set of marco's & mods avialable on the net...from the better programmer. it does not enhance gameplay with more depth. sure maybe it enhances your perceived epeen bragging rights about how you owned someone with minimal effort but there is absolutely no skill involved here imo. True merits from battle come from fighting on a level playing field. But sure, the UI could use some personalization options, a combat log and perhaps some other improvements for displaying various conditions. But it has to stop there. No exernal mods or advanced marco's should be allowed period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhuru Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 no thats just wrong... Use of macro's in mmo's has been considered a form of cheating for a long long time by any serious gamer. Only, once enough people started using them over the years it suddenly became acceptable for a wide variety of excuses and unfortunately more and more devs started to cave in and added ingame features to facilitate macro-ing and modding. Personally i feel this has just increased the problem we are having with botfarms /goldsellers as macro's & mods heavily facilitate botting. I don't want to play against a automated set of instructions, i got single player games for that. The bottom line is that if any 3rd party program; and an (advanced) macro is no much different imo: You wrote or more likely googled it; gives you an advantage over any other player that does not use it in pvp combat (or leveling wise) then that is considered cheating. When you start allowing macro's it no longer becomes about who has the best skill in the game but basically about who is the better programmer or who used the best set of marco's & mods avialable on the net...from the better programmer. It does not enhance gameplay with more depth. Sure maybe it enhances your perceived epeen bragging rights about how you owned someone with minimal effort but there is absolutely no skill involved here imo. True merits from battle come from fighting on a level playing field. But sure, the ui could use some personalization options, a combat log and perhaps some other improvements for displaying various conditions. But it has to stop there. No exernal mods or advanced marco's should be allowed period. well said!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) No thats just wrong... use of macro's in mmo's has been considered a form of cheating for a long long time by any serious gamer. A macro is not a botting program. They only execute the commands the developers allow. EQ had macros, WoW had macros, Vanguard and CoX have macros... TOR, strangely, doesn't. Noone is asking for botting programs to be allowed. Simple macro support, like I posted earlier: /assist MainTank /cast PewPew or even /cast @mouseover HealingGoodness Not game breaking, not OMGURSOBAD. Certainly NOT cheating. Quality of life and streamlining keybinds. People tend to equate macros and addons with things like Glider and ShowEQ and such. Edited December 17, 2011 by tehmoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoncrat Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'm likely going to unsub before raiding until i can get mods. The lack of a combat log is ridiculous. At the very least i would like to see what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtsdad Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) That's ridiculous.. Damage meters were probably the first mods ever introduced, right after extra bars. It was part of the old curse package back in vanilla. The game grew and grew and people used damage meters the whole time. Damage meters ruin nothing if you know what you're doing. Now gearscore/ilvl are a different thing altogether, but those can and should be blocked from working. Anytime anyone uses WoW as reference as if it were their first MMO or the pinnacle of MMOs it kind of takes away from their point. Not that your point ( damage meters and add ons) needs much help to look silly. You don't need a DM anymore than you need a foot growing out of the side of your head. Stop using a crutch and go play. Its nothing more than a tool for those with large egos and larger epeens. Edited December 17, 2011 by courtsdad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoren Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top. Chat box can be moved and resized, and additional chat boxes can be created. Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out. Actually, I am pretty sure that you want to see what OTHER players are doing, so you can boot them from your group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerr Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I don't think the UI is terrible at all. I don't know why people think it's so bad. Having said that... no macros... please. Just a good way to ruin the game. A really good way. Quickly automate everything so that I don't even have to play the game! :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urko Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Gameplay macros (combat combos etc) are almost a form of cheating imo and quite lame. The UI is ok, possibly scalability would be a welcome addition, i think most of the moaners (and i came from WoW too but never modded my UI) are from ex WoWers who want it to become WoW , if you want WoW go roll a Panda. Edited December 17, 2011 by Urko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urko Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 No mods or macros. Hit your procs right with skill and practice, no easy mode like WoW. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terraphon Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They should retitle this "The logical fallacy" thread or "How to suck at debating" I've seen them all...Straw man's fallacy about 100 times, the slippery slope fallacy repeatedly, sophistry, ad hominen, appeal to belief, bandwagon, the gambler's fallacy, middle ground, poisoning the well...I could go on for days. They could use this thread for a college thesis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarna Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Odd, I'm playing the game with a couple of friends and there has not been one complaint about mods or macros. Perhaps it's a WoW-bred entitled/lazy mentality? None of us played WoW that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malvorno Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 This might be a silly question...What does a skill rotation have to do with PVP? Pretty sure you won't be standing there using some rotation because it does more dmg. Isn't it about what the skills do and how you use em that matters? When adding Macros and Mods, isn't it the one with better knowledge of macros and mods that has an advantage? This isn't "skill" per se. Having no Mods and macros allows people to fight on equal terms, I see no problem with wanting this. I'd still want Macros and Mods though. Less thinking for me at 2am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandrillagon Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Gameplay macros (combat combos etc) are almost a form of cheating imo and quite lame. The UI is ok , i think most of the moaners (and i came from WoW too but never modded my UI) are from ex WoWers who want it to become WoW , if you want WoW go roll a Panda. I agree. I think we are dealing with the serious WoW/Raid crowd that want mods and macros the most. I don't want mods or macros because the game will get too easy and boring. Also mods and macros level the playing field which I don't like. The most unskilled lazy noob could just get the right macro or mod set up and be on easy mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 The addon/macro API is coming. It's absolutely confirmed by the devs. Just gotta have patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I don't think the UI is terrible at all. I don't know why people think it's so bad. Having said that... no macros... please. Just a good way to ruin the game. A really good way. Quickly automate everything so that I don't even have to play the game! :/ Wrong kind of macros. Those aren't what we're talking about. Gameplay automation isn't allowed in MMORPGs if the devs are smart. It's not allowed in WoW. It won't be allowed in SWTOR either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Odd, I'm playing the game with a couple of friends and there has not been one complaint about mods or macros. Perhaps it's a WoW-bred entitled/lazy mentality? None of us played WoW that much. It's more likely that you've just never played a good MMORPG and don't know what you're missing. Sorta like the tribesman who scoffs at the idea of cars because he doesn't know what they are or what they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I don't think the UI is terrible at all. I don't know why people think it's so bad. Having said that... no macros... please. Just a good way to ruin the game. A really good way. Quickly automate everything so that I don't even have to play the game! :/ /sigh Macros can't do the things you seem to think they can. Especially if the system doesn't allow it. This is a macro: /assist MainTank /cast PewPew What it does is selects the main tank's target and casts a spell (PewPew) on it. In a pack of mobs, or even a group of a few that need to be CC'd, its important to be able to select the target that people should be attacking. Usually you would press this button after your MT pressed this button: /attack /ra Assist me on %t! THis macro turns attack on (Yes, I know there's no Autoattack in TOR, but humor me), and tells the raid "Hey, I've started attacking %t (my current target)) and have good agro. You can go ahead and DPS now. This is also a macro: /cast @mouseover HealingGoodness What this does is casts a spell (HealingGoodness) at the target that your cursor is hovering over. Combine that with the raid frames that are already in the game, and a healer can patch heal without losing their main target. Since the game has no Target of Target, a healer has no real idea of the boss mob's status. A Main Tank has no idea if that DPS just pulled agro from him until the mob runs halfway across the room to splat said DPS. The UI is *bad*. EQ had macros available in 1998. Its almost 15 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paryn Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 UI customization is coming. So hopefull we'll get a better UI than the stock UI we have here. I mean the stock is sufficient but could be far better. As for macros, I wish bioware would allow those just to spite the ridiculous and ignorant arguments made by the anti macro camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baizak Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I am amazed that no one has brought up this macro topic before. I mean you would think there might be more topics on this subject. Very odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atalantia Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I think my signature speaks volumes Oh ya lets make this game a two button pressing game like Rift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taova Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I sense many clickers in this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sent Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 You may not like the UI this game has. But it was made to be easily modded in the future. Bioware knows that UI mods are an integral part of MMO's. We will probably start seeing mods out weeks after launch. Macros I'm not sure about. I've noticed some things missing that I assumed would be at launch. I'm hoping they will make those their first priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) I think my signature speaks volumes Oh ya lets make this game a two button pressing game like Rift Except Rift isn't a two button game. And wait... No to flying mounts? In a game with spaceships and flying speeders and such? I can agree with the Arena thing, and micro transactions... but no mods at all? Your ideas seem a bit too... draconian. Edited December 17, 2011 by tehmoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillbillySith Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 /sigh Macros can't do the things you seem to think they can. Especially if the system doesn't allow it. This is a macro: /assist MainTank /cast PewPew What it does is selects the main tank's target and casts a spell (PewPew) on it. In a pack of mobs, or even a group of a few that need to be CC'd, its important to be able to select the target that people should be attacking. Usually you would press this button after your MT pressed this button: /attack /ra Assist me on %t! THis macro turns attack on (Yes, I know there's no Autoattack in TOR, but humor me), and tells the raid "Hey, I've started attacking %t (my current target)) and have good agro. You can go ahead and DPS now. This is also a macro: /cast @mouseover HealingGoodness What this does is casts a spell (HealingGoodness) at the target that your cursor is hovering over. Combine that with the raid frames that are already in the game, and a healer can patch heal without losing their main target. Since the game has no Target of Target, a healer has no real idea of the boss mob's status. A Main Tank has no idea if that DPS just pulled agro from him until the mob runs halfway across the room to splat said DPS. The UI is *bad*. EQ had macros available in 1998. Its almost 15 years later. You evidently didnt play Rift, where 3 of the 4 classes could use 1 or 2 macros to completely automate their rotation. That IMO is a broken implementation of macro's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I am amazed that no one has brought up this macro topic before. I mean you would think there might be more topics on this subject. Very odd It'll keep coming up more and more now that people have actually used this archaic UI and want something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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