Buur Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Or you just use grid and clique like a pro healer. Well I was trying to limit the example to just macros since the idea of addons give a lot of these people an aneurysm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gjond Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Or am I mistaken, and a race car driver ought to get an old junker instead? A race car driver with an old junker would be like a level 50 in level 2 gear. has nothing to do with addons or mods. However, in a race where drivers all had manual transmissions, having an automatic would give an unfair advantage to that driver. Actually, manual transmissions much better for racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robndahood Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'm nowhere near 50, have a Razr Naga (which shouldn't be required) and find this to be quite humorous. Then again I also pvp and I don't mouse click anything if I don't have to. Mounts, stim packs, pet attack/retreat, everything is keybound. Yeah, I have a Razor Lachesis and I use one of the thumb keys for vent, and the other for may main ability. Every other power can be reached by my left hand. q,e, 1, 2, 3,4, x, c,v ,b, z now add +alt to any of those and you pretty much have all your ability covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robndahood Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Well I was trying to limit the example to just macros since the idea of addons give a lot of these people an aneurysm. Honestly its just a matter of "I wanna ***** about something" syndrome. Addons just happens to be the flavor of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robndahood Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Actually, manual transmissions much better for racing. Actually automatic clutch, push button shifting is better for racing and that's why they are used in racing such as F1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elidion Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Not sure if this was already mentioned, I quit reading after the first 3 pages, but so many people complaining about the chat being up top...you do realize you can move the window right? Grab the tab and drag...simple as that. I just wish other parts of the UI could be moved, like the Minimap. In my 3 widescreen monitor eyefinity setup, having the minimap anchored to the bottom right makes it near useless for me...I need it in front of me. Also a simple scale down UI would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Or you just use grid and clique like a pro healer. Actually, for me--the default WoW raid frames have gotten so good (thanks to mod ideas the developers have implemented) that all I use now is Clique for healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 To be quite honest i find the UI and the absence of Macros very very very good... its refreshing to see something done that actually makes you think and time your reactions instead of mapping a key sequence and sitting on the couch watching Oprah.... No game needs macros, and this game's UI is just fine as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robndahood Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) The EV streams I saw all seemed to have "enrage" timers. Encounters need Enrage timers or else they are too easily cheesed. You might as well bring one Tank and 15 healers. It would take forever but it would impossible to fail. ...as far as number 1. I'm 25 and I'm already near the limit of what I find acceptable as far as Keybinds and Hot Bar space. I use a Naga and all 12 buttons are bound as well as another 10 on my keyboard. I still have like 5 more abilities to learn by 50 so I don't know what you're talking about. Some fights do not need a enrage timer because the fights themselves are so "raid awareness' intensive that the probability of perfect actions over a "forever" time span, let alone a 5min time span are very unlikely. If you have a naga and you are having keybind problems then you have more than just keybind problems and might want to hold off on debating raid construction until you get the basic controls of your character down. Edited December 19, 2011 by Robndahood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Not sure if this was already mentioned, I quit reading after the first 3 pages, but so many people complaining about the chat being up top...you do realize you can move the window right? Grab the tab and drag...simple as that. I just wish other parts of the UI could be moved, like the Minimap. In my 3 widescreen monitor eyefinity setup, having the minimap anchored to the bottom right makes it near useless for me...I need it in front of me. Also a simple scale down UI would help. Yeah, you can move the chat but where? Bottom left is companion info, middle is action bars, bottom right is map. And none of them are movable. I guess you can put it right in the middle of the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondragon Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 LIMITED Macro's would be nice. I hate when they make this stuff practically automated Re-positioning and re-sizing would be nice. Other then that, I think it's absolutely fine. Personally, I have no issue what so ever with the way it is now and I don't think it should be pushed to be "like such and such". If a UI is really stopping you from playing a game like this...well...your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yeah, I have a Razor Lachesis and I use one of the thumb keys for vent, and the other for may main ability. Every other power can be reached by my left hand. q,e, 1, 2, 3,4, x, c,v ,b, z now add +alt to any of those and you pretty much have all your ability covered. I'd really like to switch vent to my mouse but I'm not overly happy with the Naga. The numberpad isn't particularly ideal, the buttons don't function in a way that would allow them to be used for vent, and the back/forward buttons are in awkward locations. My old logitech was better, I just remapped the "back" mouse button to shift and doubled my keybinds very conveniently. I tried using alt as a toggle for awhile, till I alt-tabbed myself out of game trying to switch targets. Now I prefer shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithra Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 needs some UI tweaks, but really really really hope we don't see addons and macros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robndahood Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Actually, for me--the default WoW raid frames have gotten so good (thanks to mod ideas the developers have implemented) that all I use now is Clique for healing. Eh, they are workable but proven to be suffer from UI lag, bugs and you can't really customize them for your specific healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robndahood Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I'd really like to switch vent to my mouse but I'm not overly happy with the Naga. The numberpad isn't particularly ideal, the buttons don't function in a way that would allow them to be used for vent, and the back/forward buttons are in awkward locations. My old logitech was better, I just remapped the "back" mouse button to shift and doubled my keybinds very conveniently. I tried using alt as a toggle for awhile, till I alt-tabbed myself out of game trying to switch targets. Now I prefer shift. Honestly Razer products are piles of **** and I own two of them so I can say that.... The Lachsis went a year before one of the on the fly DPI buttons stopped working and I had to remap it to the thumb buttons that are meant for left handed people. The lycosa is probably the worst keyboard you could buy for $80.. The circuit connection between the keyboard and the lackluster unresponsive media controls comes loose and causes a wide range or problems. Razer told Best Buy about this problem, but still will require you to give a DNA sample before allowing you to pay them S/H so they might or might not superglue your keyboard into "Working" order. Oh, and good luck on getting any kind of warranty service from them. Edited December 19, 2011 by Robndahood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You expanded your argument beyond simply increasing dps when you stated "along with being able to make the game easier for yourself with macros then you are just not a good player full stop" This is absolutely false, good play and mods/macros aren't diametrically opposed. They can benefit people at all levels but top level guilds, including the best players in the world, require them and even write their own if nothing is available that will fit. Oddly, damage meters were not seen as a requirement though logs were most definitely scrutinized after raids. I said if that is what you prioritise you are a bad player, straw manning and irrelevant context doesn't help a valid argument. The bit bolded is completely wrong. The best players in the world didn't become good because of macros, and aren't any better because of those macros. Same with the best guilds, they only use macros now in wow because it is what the game has turned into. WoW used to be reasonably community based, with people interaction, and the need to discuss tactics and gameplay over the initial need to post your average dps/healing/aggro levels, then say what your ilevel is, then say a boss you have cleared (which most people are carried through). Logs showing how people died are fine, but meters that show how high you can make a number go but show nothing along the lines of how well you play the game yet will get you chosen over other people long before it's known that you're a dumb minded hack who doesn't know that when the floor glows orange you shouldn't stand in it, are completely unhelpful. The problem here is immersion, gameplay, community, and dominance. Meters and macros will dominate everyone within the games mindsets because it will become the easiest initial stat to go by to make choices on who you deal with. It will therefore completely destroy the community feel because instead of actually playing with people and talking to people about things to get to know their abilities all people say is "tell me the number, tell me the other number, and show me an achieve". It kills gameplay aspects because in some instances it definitely does allow a player to literally one click their way through an instance. There are add ons currently available for other games which literally tell you what to press next and when to press it, and add ons which allow you to just click on the macro they provide to do what they tell you to. It stops you from learning to play, it stops people from actually growing with the game and ultimately (I believe) it kills off longevity. Because I know I am sure as hell bored of the rotations in wow, it's one of the reasons I left. I could click 5 buttons at most and be top of the DPS meters and the fact that they changed all the moves did nothing to alter that. Like I said it would be a million times better if they would make it so that you could choose to do one move over another and get the same good play but with minute differences that help sway things in a raid. Finally immersion; if all your doing is making it so that you're being told what to do, relying on a few button presses, then you are not actually playing a different game, you're playing the same game as every other MMO just with different graphics. Also, meters destroy immersion because people just quote them constantly, don't care abut real aspects of the game but just about numbers, and stop caring what game they're actually playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izodius Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'm fine with macros, and to be successful in endgame content you're probably going to need them. I think Mouseover macros are a bit of a whiners way out, but if that's what it takes to actually get healed I'm cool with it. As far as mods are concerned - it would be nice to have a game that has encounter design and endgame content design that is NOT reliant on third-party mods. Not having mods forces the devs to make content that can be done through the base UI and is intelligent about informing the player that fire is bad. I'd really prefer for there not to be any mods in SWTOR. Mods are not noob friendly and cause devs to get lazy. That said, a scalable UI would make my life a lot easier - I don't even care much about the UI being more customizable (it's really not nearly as bad as people make it out to be) - but being able to READ it sure would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zihkar Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 No ... they are working on the UI and it will be released soon... But no macros I don't want an Easy mode for all you slacker who can't figure out how to play with out it. The damage meter provides elitism and i don't wish to see this game turn into another WoW clone so no. Just no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Or you just use grid and clique like a pro healer. Actually, for me--the default WoW raid frames have gotten so good (thanks to mod ideas the developers have implemented) that all I use now is Clique for healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneXXIV Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 If the UI stops you from playing this game you are doing yourself an incredible diservice. I haven't had this much fun in a video game in a long long time. I would love mouse over healing but I also love how I don't have to download 25 mods and update constantly just to be on an even playing field. I hope they keep all UI changes in house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am pretty sure Hello Kitty On-line has the mods you are looking for, you should go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 No ... they are working on the UI and it will be released soon... But no macros I don't want an Easy mode for all you slacker who can't figure out how to play with out it. The damage meter provides elitism and i don't wish to see this game turn into another WoW clone so no. Just no... Yeah, god forbid there is a mod that lets you know who isn't pulling their weight. Hate to hurt anyone's feelings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 damage meter provides elitism Or reading between the lines--"I don't want to learn how to maximize my class, so please don't let others see how bad I really am." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yeah, god forbid there is a mod that lets you know who isn't pulling their weight. Hate to hurt anyone's feelings! That's not what mods do, mods tell you a specific area in which a person may be doing less than others. If the guy doing tonnes of DPS pulls an add through the main tank and wipes the raid then I don't give a **** what the DPS levels are. If a tank pulls aggro too soon or too late because he was watching meters rather than what the actual boss was doing then he's still an idiot even if he was levelling aggro with the off tank almost perfectly, and if a healer is doing tonnes of healing and the numbers are great but he is pulling aggro from adds and isn't focusing that healing correctly because he is watching meters then he is a bad player. The reason these are relevant over mods being a help to those that choose them is that the mods dominate peoples mindsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 BTW--macros are already in the game. If you know what you are doing it is very easy to build companion macos. i.e. Hit one button to select your companion, cast a shield and/or heal, then retarget the closest mob... Just have to know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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