So..... What's with all the dislike for Revan?

[Rayla_Felana]

If you read the book Revan it is explained, and apparently explained well enough for lucas to let it go through as part of cannon.

 

Revan found that just as losing yourself to Rage, anger, hate, and the like could be used to fuel the dark side of the force, dwelling on the love and compassion he could fuel his power in the light side of the force as well.

 

Karpyshyn can write whatever he likes, it falls flat on it's face when it contradicts direct quotes from Word of God canon.

 

Also the whole getting published argument doesn't work when 1.Karen Traviss was 'released' from her job for the sheer amount of contradictions she admittedly commited. and 2.The fact we have plenty of now non-canon books out there that were once canon.

[Velaran]

Karpyshyn can write whatever he likes, it falls flat on it's face when it contradicts direct quotes from Word of God canon.

 

Also the whole getting published argument doesn't work when 1.Karen Traviss was 'released' from her job for the sheer amount of contradictions she admittedly commited. and 2.The fact we have plenty of now non-canon books out there that were once canon.

 

To say that the Revan novel "might possibly in the future become non-canon" doesn't make it non-canon NOW.

 

Also, some people like to think that the creator of a setting shouldn't be the end-all word on everything having to do with the universe.

[Rayla_Felana]

To say that the Revan novel "might possibly in the future become non-canon" doesn't make it non-canon NOW.

 

Also, some people like to think that the creator of a setting shouldn't be the end-all word on everything having to do with the universe.

 

DotA(No not the awful game) works well in practice, but with an IP like Star Wars it doesn't work, Leland Chee and the Holocron are literally there to keep Lucas' laws in place, basically the point of canon in the first place.

 

If Lucas says you can't draw on both, then you can't draw on both, it's fact end of story,

[_Zorth_]

Revan is a very overrated figure in teh SW universe because he was an empty shell for people to crawl into and feel important. He learned things faster and better than any normal jedi would, He was special and since he was the link between the gameworld and the real world he made the player feel special.

 

If you read the book Revan it is explained, and apparently explained well enough for lucas to let it go through as part of cannon.

 

It's still impossible to be angry and calm at the same time..

[Selenial]

:DThe exile, I loved kotor 2, and her as a character... I loved the rev an novel but her fate, and the fact that rev an was made out far more powerful than her, when he wasn't according to lore... It made my love for revan disapear and my hatredmfor him warp.

Shame on you Drew Karpyshyn......

SHAME ON YOU

Edited April 14, 2012 by Selenial

[Selenial]

Highly disagree with this whole statement.

 

He never once mastered either side if he had done, he would either be wise enough and enlightened enough not to fall to the dark side or be so corrupted by the dark side that he could not be redeemed, that is what happens when you 'master' one of the polar opposites.

 

You also cannot achieve balance, you cannot draw from both sides of the force, you would have to simultaneously be calm and filled with rage, it's not possible, it does not work that way.

 

He was not balanced, at all.

 

You either draw from the Force or the Dark Side, that is how it works in this universe.

 

Those are the laws laid down by Lucas and the higher canon.

 

Girl, completely wrong.

Revan drew on the light side by using positive emotions. He didn't use rage to power himself, he had already empowered, he used dark powers, not calling on the dark side in that respects too much..... He used dark unlike the sith, and used light but not in the same way as the Jedi.

[Rayla_Felana]

The exile, I loved kotor 2, and her as a character... I loved the rev an novel but her fate, and the fact that rev an was made out far more powerful than her, when he wasn't according to lore... It made my love for revan disapear and my hatredmfor him warp.

Shame on you Drew Karpyshyn.

 

Nice to see some like minded people who realise the disservice done to her character.

[Rayla_Felana]

Girl, completely wrong.

Revan drew on the light side by using positive emotions. He didn't use rage to power himself, he had already empowered, he used dark powers, not calling on the dark side in that respects too much..... He used dark unlike the sith, and used light but not in the same way as the Jedi.

 

To truly use the Dark Side of the force you have to give into your anger and hatred you have to let out your negative emotions, that is the key to using the dark side, you cannot use it without such rage, it is not possible, this is very clearly described by Lucas in the RotJ commentary.

 

The entire point of the Dark Side was to use rage and passion to empower your force powers, that is when you are using the Dark Side.

 

There are no inbetweens, you cannot use both, they are polar opposites, they are different ways of using the force and focusing on one will absolutely stop any focus on the other, because you have to do completely opposite things to use them.

 

There is one very powerful unknown Jedi Master who attempted exactly this way back in the First Schism and he was quite literally torn apart by trying to do this.

[Velaran]

DotA(No not the awful game) works well in practice, but with an IP like Star Wars it doesn't work, Leland Chee and the Holocron are literally there to keep Lucas' laws in place, basically the point of canon in the first place.

 

If Lucas says you can't draw on both, then you can't draw on both, it's fact end of story,

 

Perhaps. But untill Chee or Lucas come out to specifically say: "No. That isn't how it happened, it goes against the lore." Then we have to assume that it DID happen. Someone must have read the story before it was shipped out, and whoever it was they found it satisfactory.

 

@Selenial: Well, the book WAS titled Revan. At some time in the future, The Exile will probably get her own book, and it'll focus on how crazy awesome she was as well.

[grfu]

Why do I dislike Revan? Well, I don't dislike him, exactly, I just wasn't a fan of having to go around and clean up his mess as Meetra Surik. And, of course, that whole bit with the Revan book. That was kinda a slap in the face for me and anyone else who are fans of The Exile.

[Invictos]

DotA(No not the awful game) works well in practice, but with an IP like Star Wars it doesn't work, Leland Chee and the Holocron are literally there to keep Lucas' laws in place, basically the point of canon in the first place.

 

If Lucas says you can't draw on both, then you can't draw on both, it's fact end of story,

 

Yes, the difference here is that Star Wars is both on-going and constructed by many different authors, with one author deciding what fits into the jigsaw puzzle of continuity and what doesn't. It's an unusual situation. There's a difference between telling George to piss off when he decides, after the fact, to tell you what really happened in his own work -- and telling George to piss off when he decides how his own universe fundamentally works with respect to addenda written by other authors.

 

So although I'm a big Death of the Author proponent when it comes to evaluating (for instance) the Star Wars movies on their own merits, I gotta agree with Rayla here: if Lucas says the Force works a certain way, then his version of the story supercedes any other version put forward by EU authors.

 

As a reader, you are obviously entitled to prefer any interpretation (even one you've constructed yourself out of whole cloth), but when we're discussing how the fictional universe works, we have to agree on certain fundamental ideas -- or else the conversation loses all context, and it becomes pointless.

 

According to Lucas, there is no such thing as balancing the Light Side and the Dark Side. The Light Side is the balanced Force; the Dark Side is a corruption of the Force, an inherent imbalance. Personally, I wish he had expanded on that idea of dark-side-as-cancer in the movies, because that explanation (IMO) would have put to rest many of the questions that have arisen since. And frankly, it makes a lot more sense to me than the alternative. YMMV there.

[Velaran]

Yes, the difference here is that Star Wars is both on-going and constructed by many different authors, with one author deciding what fits into the jigsaw puzzle of continuity and what doesn't. It's an unusual situation. There's a difference between telling George to piss off when he decides, after the fact, to tell you what really happened in his own work -- and telling George to piss off when he decides how his own universe fundamentally works with respect to addenda written by other authors.

 

So although I'm a big Death of the Author proponent when it comes to evaluating (for instance) the Star Wars movies on their own merits, I gotta agree with Rayla here: if Lucas says the Force works a certain way, then his version of the story supercedes any other version put forward by EU authors.

 

As a reader, you are obviously entitled to prefer any interpretation (even one you've constructed yourself out of whole cloth), but when we're discussing how the fictional universe works, we have to agree on certain fundamental ideas -- or else the conversation loses all context, and it becomes pointless.

 

According to Lucas, there is no such thing as balancing the Light Side and the Dark Side. The Light Side is the balanced Force; the Dark Side is a corruption of the Force, an inherent imbalance. Personally, I wish he had expanded on that idea of dark-side-as-cancer in the movies, because that explanation (IMO) would have put to rest many of the questions that have arisen since. And frankly, it makes a lot more sense to me than the alternative. YMMV there.

 

Fair enough, I can see where you and Rayla are coming from.

 

Personally, I see Revan being able to be..... As he is, because of the extraordinary position he was put in with the mind wipe and building of a false past.

 

I don't see it as a breaking of the lore, just as something new, rare, and strange.

[Airmo]

:DThe exile, I loved kotor 2, and her as a character... I loved the rev an novel but her fate, and the fact that rev an was made out far more powerful than her, when he wasn't according to lore... It made my love for revan disapear and my hatredmfor him warp.

Shame on you Drew Karpyshyn......

SHAME ON YOU

 

When was it ever confirmed or denied that Revan was weaker then the exile or the exile was weaker then him, in the novel it was described as a student/mentor kind of relationship right? (something like that) Not that big of a stretch since Revan was commanding..everyone during the Mando Wars. Doesn't mean he was stronger or weaker, is there some kind of list of Star War's character power level's I missed? lol

[Ellvaan]

Hey everyone!

 

We just wanted say a quick thank you for using spoiler tags where needed in this thread! A quick reminder for those who might not know, you can use them like this:

 

[noparse]

(Information here.)

[/noparse]

 

That will give you this:

 

 

(Information here.)

 

Thank you for your understanding and help keeping this forum spoiler-free!

[STEllUS-swei]

I think Revan gets abit downplayed to make our characters more relevant accualy, there would be no point in our heroes to run around if revan was as powerfull as in the original KOTOR game

 

Also i hear people refer alot to Luke being realy powerfull but lets face it it was Darth Vader who did the emperor in in the end since he was the chosen one

[enigmayshi]

I think Revan gets abit downplayed to make our characters more relevant accualy, there would be no point in our heroes to run around if revan was as powerfull as in the original KOTOR game

 

Also i hear people refer alot to Luke being realy powerful but lets face it it was Darth Vader who did the emperor in in the end since he was the chosen one

 

Downplayed? You take him down with Four Heroes of the Empire, not one, not two, Four. The Storylines of TOR make it apparent that your character is NOT a run of the Mill Agent, or Bounty Hunter, or Sith. You are a powerful character yourself.

 

Revan was not downplayed at all, He was a powerful force user/duelist and a resounding tactician, but not some god like being.

I do think people overplay Revan though because of the sole fact that you play as him during Kotor.

 

And this is from someone that loves Revan....

[Malaghaas]

The Light Side is the balanced Force; the Dark Side is a corruption of the Force, an inherent imbalance.

 

People keep mentioning this here and there and I wanted to step in this time and state that - this is incorrect.

 

The Mortis Trilogy in season 3 of TCW (which Lucas personally oversaw - as he became more involved in S03) goes into detail about the balance of the lightside and darkside of The Force. The view of "the Jedi" is that the darkside is a cancer - however as shown through imagery in the episode (Yin and Yang symbol displayed prominently at one point) and the archetypes Father, Son and Daughter this is not the case at all.

 

The darkside is every much a natural part of the universe as the lightside and either one can cause an imbalance.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Malaghaas

[Rayla_Felana]

People keep mentioning this here and there and I wanted to step in this time and state that - this is incorrect.

 

The Mortis Trilogy in season 3 of TCW (which Lucas personally oversaw - as he became more involved in S03) goes into detail about the balance of the lightside and darkside of The Force. The view of "the Jedi" is that the darkside is a cancer - however as shown through imagery in the episode (Yin and Yang symbol displayed prominently at one point) and the archetypes Father, Son and Daughter this is not the case at all.

 

The darkside is every much a natural part of the universe as the lightside and either one can cause an imbalance.

 

If The Mortis trilogy showed you anything it showed you the Jedi were right, as soon as the Son got the chance he leapt at the idea of dominating the force himself, he Mind-controlled Ahsoka Tano and was going to kill her on the spot if given the chance and he had no obvious qualms about killing the Father or Daughter either.

 

The Dark Side is a cancer because it is relentlessly aggressive, it doesn't matter when or how, it will attack, the Sith themselves are the biggest example of this, every major war between the Sith and the Jedi has been instigated by the Sith.

 

Even the Sith's founders were the ones that attacked first and waged a century long war on Tython before the Followers of Ashla banished them, then they became Sith.

[Airmo]

If The Mortis trilogy showed you anything it showed you the Jedi were right, as soon as the Son got the chance he leapt at the idea of dominating the force himself, he Mind-controlled Ahsoka Tano and was going to kill her on the spot if given the chance and he had no obvious qualms about killing the Father or Daughter either.

 

The Dark Side is a cancer because it is relentlessly aggressive, it doesn't matter when or how, it will attack, the Sith themselves are the biggest example of this, every major war between the Sith and the Jedi has been instigated by the Sith.

 

Even the Sith's founders were the ones that attacked first and waged a century long war on Tython before the Followers of Ashla banished them, then they became Sith.

 

Didnt the son feel bad that he killed the daughter? Haven't seen the episodes in a while but he seemed honestly upset when she died. Now that I think about it if the son is actually a "son" wouldnt that mean he was naturally apart of the force?

[Rayla_Felana]

Didnt the son feel bad that he killed the daughter? Haven't seen the episodes in a while but he seemed honestly upset when she died. Now that I think about it if the son is actually a "son" wouldnt that mean he was naturally apart of the force?

 

Actually that was just his escape root, after hundreds of thousands of years preparing you don't think he'd plan his way out?

 

They aren't an actual family, they are representations of the force, really they are believed to be Celestials, as we saw the Son tried to break the balance, as the Dark Side does, and even attempted to turn Anakin into Vader years before his time, we also saw a foreshadowing of what may happen to Ahsoka.

 

Also where is this George Lucas quote about the Jedi only believing the Dark Side to be cancer, because when he stated it he wasn't talking about the Jedi at all.

[Velaran]

Actually that was just his escape root, after hundreds of thousands of years preparing you don't think he'd plan his way out?

 

They aren't an actual family, they are representations of the force, really they are believed to be Celestials, as we saw the Son tried to break the balance, as the Dark Side does, and even attempted to turn Anakin into Vader years before his time, we also saw a foreshadowing of what may happen to Ahsoka.

 

Also where is this George Lucas quote about the Jedi only believing the Dark Side to be cancer, because when he stated it he wasn't talking about the Jedi at all.

 

They may not have been a family, but the Son clearly cared for the Daughter. He even does the whole "looking at his hands in grief" thing, and mournfully buries her later. To say that he PLANNED her death is pretty ridiculous.

 

This might be the single best example for the Dark Side being a "side" of the force, and not a corruption. Here is the physical embodiment of the Dark Side, and he DOESN'T want to kill the Daughter, the embodiment of the Light Side.

 

In fact, his entire goal is to kill the Father and escape Mortis, and it's obvious that he never intended the death of the Daughter. He wanted the Father, a person HE saw as a kind of jailer, to die, so that he and the Daughter could regulate themselves.

 

Basically, he wanted freedom; The most core of Sith tenants.

 

 

Quick note: Abeloth is the embodiment of chaos and corruption, far, FAR more then the Son.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Velaran

[Dext]

I my self am just sick of seeing how people think is was the end all of be all of Jedi. Yes he was good but, to think he was the best Jedi ever is going a bit far.

[Invictos]

This might be the single best example for the Dark Side being a "side" of the force, and not a corruption. Here is the physical embodiment of the Dark Side, and he DOESN'T want to kill the Daughter, the embodiment of the Light Side.

 

In fact, his entire goal is to kill the Father and escape Mortis, and it's obvious that he never intended the death of the Daughter. He wanted the Father, a person HE saw as a kind of jailer, to die, so that he and the Daughter could regulate themselves.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The embodiment of the Dark Side starts out not wanting to kill the embodiment of the Light Side, and ends up doing it anyway? That doesn't sound like evidence that the Dark Side is manageable, or in any way balance-able. It sounds, to me, like the story is an allegory for the inherently destructive nature of the Dark Side.

 

YMMV, but I don't see any clear evidence here to contravene the word of Lucas.

[grandmthethird]

I my self am just sick of seeing how people think is was the end all of be all of Jedi. Yes he was good but, to think he was the best Jedi ever is going a bit far.

 

i don't think he was the best or the strongest jedi. but he might be the coolest jedi. and its not easy being a jedi and being cool

 

on the title of the thread. i don't ppl hate revan, the fact there is so many "revan vs ?????" threads indicates ppl put him up as one of the best.

Edited April 15, 2012 by grandmthethird

[LeeC]

You know I am Revan right?

 

anyone whose played KotOR is/was revan. I am not a fan of starkiller but I find him to be more interesting and powerful than Revan.