Lost Island, ***...

[Aetou]

2m 12 second fight with 1 sage healer, 2 sentinels and 1 guardian tank. This is with DragonExadon...

People who complain this game is biased against melee's need to rea;ise we've been compensated by a rediculously large amount of damage we can put out vs ranged classes. Just yesterday in NiM KP, my best geared gunslinger who's in Rakata/Blackhole/Campaign only did 1500 dps while i turned out 1700-1800 easy. If your a melee class, you need to take the initiative to get better at moving and dealing damage. You can't stay planted and mash buttons all day long.

 

While this may be true for Sentinels it definitely isn't true for all melee classes. Do you really think a pair of DPS Scoundrels would have been able to do it as easily? While I'm still impressed, doing it with 2 of the strongest melee class who also have excellent group buffs is not really a fair reflection that it is doable by all melee as easily as ranged, or that it is doable with as little gear as ranged can get away with?

Edited May 28, 2012 by Aetou

[Digital_Blade]

While this may be true for Sentinels it definitely isn't true for all melee classes. Do you really think a pair of DPS Scoundrels would have been able to do it as easily? While I'm still impressed, doing it with 2 of the strongest melee class who also have excellent group buffs is not really a fair reflection that it is doable by all melee as easily as ranged, or that it is doable with as little gear as ranged can get away with?

 

 

The class isn't the problem, it's the player. I've seen many scoundrels and Guardian DPS who do just fine and keep up with sentinels. If most players can learn their class inside and out, they can do anything.

[NoxiousAlby]

BTW i called this. I said when bioware releases harder content, people will qq about it being too hard after qqing about content being too easy. Case and point

 

But flash points were meant to be puggable and fun while operatiions were supposed to provide the challenging content. Now thanks to some player QQ (same crap that led us to Cataclysm) we now have flash point bosses with operation mechanics.

 

The worst part of all is that the reward doesnt equal the effort, it's far easier to run HM EV if reward is all your after.

[Aurojiin]

But flash points were meant to be puggable and fun while operatiions were supposed to provide the challenging content. Now thanks to some player QQ (same crap that led us to Cataclysm) we now have flash point bosses with operation mechanics.

Is it really such a travesty to have one semi-challenging flashpoint out of eight (per faction)?

[NoxiousAlby]

Is it really such a travesty to have one semi-challenging flashpoint out of eight (per faction)?

 

Until BW provide non raiders with at least one 4 man operation to give players with the opportunity to gear progress their characters, yes it is. I hardly consider 6 BH badges per week from the Corellia dailies compensation

 

I'm sick to death of MMO's catering to the raiding community, you are hardly the majority of players in any game and new content is constantly being provided to suit you because you QQ the loudest. The "Holy Trinity" style of play is in it's death throes, the number of people who have already left this game because it offered nothing new is staggering.

Edited May 29, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[Aurojiin]

Until BW provide non raiders with at least one 4 man operation to give players with the opportunity to gear progress their characters, yes it is. I hardly consider 6 BH badges per week from the Corellia dailies compensation.

You get another 8 per week from Lost Island + Kaon, so, uh...

 

It's hardly efficient to build operation-scale content for 4-man groups, anyway, because you're severely limited by capabilities of that group (every fight in Denova, for example, would have to have the majority of their mechanics completely disposed of by virtue of only having one tank).

 

Furthermore, what's the point of gear progression without operations? You're going to kill mobs on Ilum a few seconds faster?

 

Edit: also, please don't assume I raid.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Aurojiin

[Vankris]

I'm sick to death of MMO's catering to the raiding community, you are hardly the majority of players in any game and new content is constantly being provided to suit you because you QQ the loudest. The "Holy Trinity" style of play is in it's death throes, the number of people who have already left this game because it offered nothing new is staggering.

 

are we living in the same world? MMOs do not cater to the hardcore raiders anymore. They all now are "accessible" and cater to casual gameplay.

 

Fact is, cuasual does not necessarely means bad player, that so far, bioware has understood it. The game challenges you in solo, in FP and in OP. But the game is design for casual gameplay.

 

You think Lost Island is hard, you don't know hard.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Vankris

[Kitzinger]

The worst part of all is that the reward doesnt equal the effort, it's far easier to run HM EV if reward is all your after.

HM EV is way easier than this stupid FP and is not worth the Black Hole credits. I think EC is easier than this FP. This FP is in the range of HM EC if you have melee DPS. If you have Range DPS then it is more in the category of SM EC. I don't know why they made this FP so hard for those groups who have melee DPS but it's pretty much crap.

Here is the truth on HM LI... You have to be in partial Rakata and partial BH just to attempt this on HM... Anything less and the healer can't keep up with the damage nor can the DPS put out enough damage not to wipe.

HM LI needs to give Black Hole and Campaign Gear for it's level of difficulty. SM LI should give Rakata and Black Hole gear. Then the FP would make sense to do. Right now Columi grade rewards make no sense.

Right now this FP is not worth the aggravation. Did it once after way too many failures.

By the way have you people checked the servers lately to see how wonderful their idea of "Only the Elite Can Win" policy of theirs is doing? I would like to play with people in a year instead of saying "Man, you remember how challenging that one FP in SWTOR was? Pretty sad to see it go... OK load up Diablo."

Edited May 29, 2012 by Kitzinger

[Vankris]

HM EV is way easier than this stupid FP and is not worth the Black Hole credits. I think EC is easier than this FP. This FP is in the range of HM EC if you have melee DPS. If you have Range DPS then it is more in the category of SM EC. I don't know why they made this FP so hard for those groups who have melee DPS but it's pretty much crap.

Here is the truth on HM LI... You have to be in partial Rakata and partial BH just to attempt this on HM... Anything less and the healer can't keep up with the damage nor can the DPS put out enough damage not to wipe.

HM LI needs to give Black Hole and Campaign Gear for it's level of difficulty. SM LI should give Rakata and Black Hole gear. Then the FP would make sense to do. Right now Columi grade rewards make no sense.

Right now this FP is not worth the aggravation. Did it once after way too many failures.

By the way have you people checked the servers lately to see how wonderful their idea of "Only the Elite Can Win" policy of theirs is doing? I would like to play with people in a year instead of saying "Man, you remember how challenging that one FP in SWTOR was? Pretty sad to see it go... OK load up Diablo."

 

So much wrong in this, i don't know where to begin.

 

How would you envision an hard mode flashpoint exactly?

one shooting every boss, rolling non stop and clear in 1/2 hour? where is the fun in that. I swear, if the flashpoint come anywhere near the boring, snooze fest WoLK heroics were, i would prefer the commendation be directly mailed to me, because i wouldn't set foot in that instance.

 

I don't play for loot, i play for fun, for challenge. Having one and only one FP that is mildly challenging and you saying that is too much already?

 

Did it once after way too many failures, you say.

I am sure, you take the same 4 people, do it again, it'll go faster the second time. And even faster the third time. Isn't that logical progression?

 

OK load up Diablo

Don't ever go near the inferno mode, hell don't even try the hell mode.

[MimicUnleashed]

We finished this. Spent 3 nights at about 2-3 hours a piece on this one. Mostly due to Incinerate not having a cast bar until after it started. This was true of all 4 members, and we put in a ticket. Honestly this fight is horrible beyond belief. A Guardian tank, Sentinel and Guardian DPS and a Sage healer. I'd hate to see a Trooper in this make-up because without an interrupt they're just a liability.

 

Hard Modes are a sad affair in this game. They're not fun for the most part. It's just tons easier to run EV/KP and it costs you far less in repairs. Which I find strange. Because if you're wanting to gear up this is something you should do, however mechanics as they are (unforgiving) mean that you should not need anything gear wise from here and be doing it for the black hole coms only. Which is incredibly sad.

[Dassem]

Not really sure what the issue with this flashpoint is, in all reality other than the first boss the rest is pretty easy. While I applaud Bioware for increasing the difficulty in their game with the inclusion of this new flashpoint I'd be hoping that any future content would rack the difficulty up even more.

 

Have done this multiple times as a Marauder who is in half Columi/Rakata gear without any real problems at all, cleared it the other night in around a hour in a non guild group.

 

First experience of the instance though was with the following group composition:

 

BH Healer - Columi/PvP/Rakata gear mix

Marauder - Mostly Columi, 2 piece Rakata (50 less than a week) and a couple Lvl49 Orange mod pieces inc OH.

BH Tank - Columi mostly, no Rakata (50 around a week)

Sorc - Pretty much full Rakata

 

Droid - Downed first time, though Mara died with around 10% HP left on Droid.

Sav-Rak - Four attempts before killed but most of that was a confusion due to having reading different tactics and positioning tweaks.

Doctor - Downed first time after three kolto tube phases, no deaths.

 

Only the Sorc and BH Tank had done the instance before though the BH Tank had been as a different class. So a mixture of experience and 3 completely new classes to the mix.

 

It's certainly a step in the right direction for Bioware as a instance but after multiple attempts only really the Droid keeps somewhat of the same initial challenge. For me personally I hope this is a insight into the direction Bioware wish to take the game.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Dassem

[oredith]

This instance was insanely hard the first time we did it. and we are in Rakata gear.

 

it took my guildies 3.5 hours their first time through with limited boss info

the 2nd time, i lead some other guildies, with better boss info, and it took 2.5 hours

now, we finish the run in 28 minutes (we skip bonus boss now).

 

it is actually faster than BT..

[Raeln]

You get another 8 per week from Lost Island + Kaon, so, uh...

 

It's hardly efficient to build operation-scale content for 4-man groups, anyway, because you're severely limited by capabilities of that group (every fight in Denova, for example, would have to have the majority of their mechanics completely disposed of by virtue of only having one tank).

 

Furthermore, what's the point of gear progression without operations? You're going to kill mobs on Ilum a few seconds faster?

 

Edit: also, please don't assume I raid.

 

It doesn't seem that Denova (or Lost Island), despite their increased difficulty, has kept very many people from hitting the unsubscribe button.

 

If anything, Denova drove a wedge into our Ops group. One member called off last week - since Denova requires the player attention to detail that it does, the entire Ops were canceled for the week. Pre-Denova, we would have just brought someone else in and did EV/KP.

 

I've said this since before WoW was even released - challenge is not what brings the MMORPG folks to the yard. A social experience is the ticket. Separating players from other players in their group by artificial mechanical difficulty is not how a developer gets people hooked on their game long-term. Providing a way for friends to play together is.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Raeln

[dipstik]

it is harder to find a group for this than evhm. not sure why, but the droid and lorrik seem to be better than most players.

 

droid: having melee makes this much more dificult for the tanks. we typically choose somsoen to stack on and go clockwise around the room. dont run too far or you wont have time for support interupt and heals (if your sorc/sage).

 

lorrik: cleanse the stacks, int flurry, point the boss away from the group, dps hard on the tanks, knockback and cc raks (can even cc last elite out of tank if u want), depending on the healer either stack for last phase (sorc/sage) or spread out.

 

there is a very short list of ppl i am even willing to try with this.

[Dragonexadon]

It doesn't seem that Denova (or Lost Island), despite their increased difficulty, has kept very many people from hitting the unsubscribe button.

 

If anything, Denova drove a wedge into our Ops group. One member called off last week - since Denova requires the player attention to detail that it does, the entire Ops were canceled for the week. Pre-Denova, we would have just brought someone else in and did EV/KP.

 

I've said this since before WoW was even released - challenge is not what brings the MMORPG folks to the yard. A social experience is the ticket. Separating players from other players in their group by artificial mechanical difficulty is not how a developer gets people hooked on their game long-term. Providing a way for friends to play together is.

 

The story mode devnoa is not that hard I hate to say it. It is more so team work in order to do it well. Once you have things down as a team the rest is very easy.

 

My guild is very casual and we have EC normal on farm. We have husbands, wifes, children, hardcore, normal players, the whole gambit and we can complete EC on farm.

 

Part of doing a group operation requires that the whole team be on the same page. You complete something as a group and feel like you earned the right of passage.

 

If I can do it I feel most pkayers can do EC normal. It wont let you steam roll the content and that's nice. Raids should not be something anyone can steam roll. Once you learn the mechanics the rest is easy.

 

Now HM kephess that is creazy lol.

[AshlaBoga]

Actually harder content was what kept me from unsubbing so you don't speak for everyone.

[NoxiousAlby]

are we living in the same world? MMOs do not cater to the hardcore raiders anymore. They all now are "accessible" and cater to casual gameplay.

 

Fact is, cuasual does not necessarely means bad player, that so far, bioware has understood it. The game challenges you in solo, in FP and in OP. But the game is design for casual gameplay.

 

You think Lost Island is hard, you don't know hard.

Never pressume nor assume as it makes an *** of you & me.

 

I raided MC, BWL, SSC, & BT back in the day when I was young enough to have the time and less responsibilities to focus my energy on a game. These days I play with real life friends and their spouses, flashpoints are perfect for us as we play casually a few nights a week. Not everyone has the same level of skill or experience in MMO instances/flashpoints. My friends wife is very casual and plays the groups healer, for you to say that LI is designed for her skill level makes you look like an idiot.

 

This game was designed for casual play, but for all the people who have no sense of achievement in life and require a sense of achievement in a game it's not enough.

 

Keep difficulty in Operations where they belong, when players say that running HM EV (operation) is easier than doing HM LI (flashpoint) then there is a problem.

[Aurojiin]

Never pressume nor assume as it makes an *** of you & me.

I find that amusing, since you lumped me in with the raiding community and made all sorts of accusations on just the previous page.

 

These days I play with real life friends and their spouses, flashpoints are perfect for us as we play casually a few nights a week. Not everyone has the same level of skill or experience in MMO instances/flashpoints. My friends wife is very casual and plays the groups healer, for you to say that LI is designed for her skill level makes you look like an idiot.

FFS. Seriously. You have seven other flashpoints to run. Ten if you include both factions.

 

But apparently someone made you the absolute and infallible arbiter of what constitutes an acceptable divide in difficulty between Flashpoints and Operations. If four people want a bigger challenge than the tier 1 flashpoints provide, but they can't field an operations group, well, **** them apparently.

 

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll hazard a guess you're not running the non-hardmode flashpoints with your 50s?

[NoxiousAlby]

So much wrong in this, i don't know where to begin.

 

How would you envision an hard mode flashpoint exactly?

one shooting every boss, rolling non stop and clear in 1/2 hour? where is the fun in that. I swear, if the flashpoint come anywhere near the boring, snooze fest WoLK heroics were, i would prefer the commendation be directly mailed to me, because i wouldn't set foot in that instance.

 

I don't play for loot, i play for fun, for challenge. Having one and only one FP that is mildly challenging and you saying that is too much already?

And yet as a game Wotlk was the most successfull MMO in history topping 12million subs, you may have found it boring but i assure you many many more enjoyed it and as such that makes your opinion irrelevant.

 

I am sure, you take the same 4 people, do it again, it'll go faster the second time. And even faster the third time. Isn't that logical progression?

This is where you fail.................Operations should be designed for progression, not flashpoints.

 

Don't ever go near the inferno mode, hell don't even try the hell mode.

Yes as we all know that in terms of a successfull operation/flashpoint it requires a completion rate of <5% of the player base to be qualified as such.................../facepalm

 

And we all know how brain numbing successfull Cataclysm has been. Fortunately the lead designer who developed Wotlk is the lead designer on project "Titan", it's good to know you wont be there when released later this year.

[Aurojiin]

And yet as a game Wotlk was the most successfull MMO in history topping 12million subs, you may have found it boring but i assure you many many more enjoyed it and as such that makes your opinion irrelevant.

I lack the text to effectively communicate my laughter upon reading this.

[NoxiousAlby]

IFFS. Seriously. You have seven other flashpoints to run. Ten if you include both factions.

Done them all already again & again, even when there is no reward to be had still doing them for something to do. Even ex raiders enjoy new content

 

But apparently someone made you the absolute and infallible arbiter of what constitutes an acceptable divide in difficulty between Flashpoints and Operations. If four people want a bigger challenge than the tier 1 flashpoints provide, but they can't field an operations group, well, **** them apparently.

Actually 15 years of playing MMO's has made me an arbiter of what constitutes an acceptable divide in difficulty. Even your limited comprehension should be aware of what sells and what doesnt, by your reckoning new players to MMO's should run T1 flashpoints over and over just as non & ex raiders ran ZA &ZG over 600 times because there was nothing new to do. As for players wanting greater challenge in 4 man content convince BW to introduce 4 man raids because thats what your after. You either couldnt be *****ed joining a raid guild or creating your own but you want raid mechanics introduced into 4 man flashpoints.

 

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll hazard a guess you're not running the non-hardmode flashpoints with your 50s?

Wrong as usual, so far we have done all 4 mans in normal prior to HM, thats called gear progression.

Edited May 30, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[NoxiousAlby]

I lack the text to effectively communicate my laughter upon reading this.

 

Your just showing your lack of comprehension.................$$$$$$$$$$$ in the bank & subscription rates determines success. You may not have liked Woltk but it has been the most accessible MMO that allowed progression without raiding. The badge system that raiders hated so much that allowed non raiders to gear equally kept players subscribing.

 

Also good to know you wont be playing project "Titan" when released, as i'm sure it's lack of difficulty wont provide you with the challenge your looking for.

[Aurojiin]

Actually 15 years of playing MMO's has made me an arbiter of what constitutes an acceptable divide in difficulty. Even your limited comprehension should be aware of what sells and what doesnt, by your reckoning new players to MMO's should run T1 flashpoints over and over just as non & ex raiders ran ZA &ZG over 600 times because there was nothing new to do. As for players wanting greater challenge in 4 man content convince BW to introduce 4 man raids because thats what your after. You either couldnt be *****ed joining a raid guild or creating your own but you want raid mechanics introduced into 4 man flashpoints.

After reading this over a couple of times (thanks for the amusement, btw), all one can really take away is... you want continual gear progression with no difficulty curve and you especially don't want any optional content that is semi-challenging for other small groups, because that impinges upon content delivery for you, and you are the center of the universe.

 

Wrong as usual, so far we have done all 4 mans in normal prior to HM, thats called gear progression.

I didn't specify past tense, I simply asked if you were running them on your 50s; ergo, now. Apparently you aren't, so you don't have any interest in facerolling Athiss, Mandalorian raiders, etc, which leaves me with two possible conclusions:

 

1. You do care about difficulty, because there's nothing rewarding in oneshotting every mob. However, your difficulty preferences are apparently objective and absolute because, uh, you've played MMOs a lot, and <insert appeal to popularity fallacy here>.

 

2. You have a strange desire for pointless gear progression. All tier 1 flashpoints can be facerolled when wearing the gear you acquire from them, but you don't want difficulty to increase, so... you want higher numbers on your character sheet for no reason.

 

Feel free to enlighten me as to which one is correct. Also, please include as many ad hominems and attempted insults as you can, they add to the lulz.

 

Your just showing your lack of comprehension

Maybe your right. Your very smart after all. Your very good at English too.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Aurojiin

[Dassem]

I will most likely avoid Titan for the reasons of it's sounding more and more of a non challenging game play experience. I'll just have to find another game that caters to my needs unless something changes with Titan.

 

As for success well that's something that can be measured in many ways and not just from a financial stand point. The best RPG (Planescape Torment) and RTS (Total Annihilation) I've ever played and what I consider the two games that are at the pinnacle of their genres were hardly financial successes at all. In Planescape Torment's case it actually did abysmal on the sales front this among many other examples across many different industries will always be the reason I never use monetary gain as a judging tool. Also why it's something I find least important when looking at a product.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Dassem

[Vankris]

And yet as a game Wotlk was the most successfull MMO in history topping 12million subs, you may have found it boring but i assure you many many more enjoyed it and as such that makes your opinion irrelevant.

 

Quantity is not quality.

They are still a few of us that still prefere a good quality game, with challenge and fun.

If bioware decide to go the path of soccer mom content, flashpoint that can be done over "luch break" (that is a blizzard quote), content so faceroll it cease to provide any fun whatsoever, then it will be without me.

 

So far, i am satisfied with the current content of hard mode, be denova or lost island.

 

moreover, over the 12 millions subscriber, only about half of them were paying subscriber. there are detail per region of blizzard activision income. WoW europe and US make for 80% of wow revenue, asia is about 10%. Those are not make up stat, those are real financial report.

 

finally food for though, yes wow has about 10 millions subs ( more like 5 millions paying subs and another 5 that pay 7 cent an hour and don't log that often) , so did TBC

Do you think the quality of the community is the same now than it was in TBC?

By quality, i mean, skill, patience, willing to help, and of course, not being a douche on anonymous LFG.

 

WoW subs have been steadily decreasing since mid WoLK, at slow pace. From what i see from the beta, i don't see the trend reversing. Trus gamer looks for good games, soccer mom move on faster than you can say unsub.